Your opinion on Racing Softs?

[Saidur_Ali]

I think the reason why the GT500 times are so close is due to the car in GT5 having potentially more drag or less engine power. The grip is higher than real life I would say but how much is down to the downforce and tyres? I think if you used the stealth GT500 cars which are the only cars that have GT500 in the names in GT5 and they also have more power, then the fastest lap time around Suzuka in GT500 should be quite beatable considering people can do low 1:50's with the less powered cars in GT5.

 

[Prototyp3]

If I went to a race track in real life I would put on the best possible tires I could.

The same goes in the game. It doesn't make sense to hold yourself back, i.e. handicap yourself intentionally.

Use the best tires you can at all times.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I think the reason why the GT500 times are so close is due to the car in GT5 having potentially more drag or less engine power. The grip is higher than real life I would say but how much is down to the downforce and tyres? I think if you used the stealth GT500 cars which are the only cars that have GT500 in the names in GT5 and they also have more power, then the fastest lap time around Suzuka in GT500 should be quite beatable considering people can do low 1:50's with the less powered cars in GT5.

In part, that's sort of my point. The RS tires really belong on race cars, not street cars, and when on race cars, their performance is pretty close to real life. Maybe not exactly, and maybe not on all cars but pretty darn close, and certainly nowhere near "magic" status, or being made of "unobtainium"...:crazy:. And just to be clear, when I say GT500, I'm referring to any GT500 or SuperGT or JGTC car at 502 hp and stock weight. I don't know of anyone with those specs running in the low 1:50's, online, with tire wear on. Offline maybe, with more than 502 hp maybe, with high draft or boost on maybe. But not at spec power and weight.

 

[lebes14]

While I agree that it seems unrealistic, after looking at the times the new 'vette achieved over the gtr and 458 on laguna seca on mere semi slicks certainly makes think otherwise. Something like 4 seconds faster then the 458.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

I'm wrong, and yet I can show that on a major and popular group of racing cars, dare I say the most popular group of racing cars by far, the GT500's, lap times are similar in GT5 compared to real life, and yet you provide examples of your own of cars on racing slicks and their times compared to GT5. As I mentioned earlier a half dozen times already, yes sticking racing tires on a 300hp street car is an unrealistic combination

Did you even read what I said? I didn't say anything about slapping RS tires on 300hp road cars. I said that most cars are too quick on their stock tires (which can be racing hards which comes with EVERY race car won or purchased) are too quick on their stock tires.

Which means that most race cars are too quick on racing hards, let alone if they were on racing softs. And where did you get this about GT500's being the most popular racing cars?

If super softs were so accurate, then why do people need to use comfort tires on the F2007/F2010 to replicate real life lap times? Surely that's unrealistic to put cheap all weather tires on a grand prix car, but that's because the racing tires either offer way too much grip or don't brake traction properly.

If I went to a race track in real life I would put on the best possible tires I could.

The same goes in the game. It doesn't make sense to hold yourself back, i.e. handicap yourself intentionally.

Use the best tires you can at all times.

Have you never watched a single piece of motorsport on TV or in real life? This is just daft.

If your logic was correct, then every race team would use soft tires come race day. When you add real life to the equation, then you have to take into account the extreme tire wear. Teams would be pitting in every few laps and lose time hand over fist to anyone racing on harder, more endurable tires. If you ever became a team manager, I guarantee you would finish dead last come the end of the season.

And you serious about putting RS tires on road cars just because they're the best? What is the point of buying a "simulation" game if you're going to turn it into an arcade game by fitting fantasy tires to every car you have.

Perhaps you should turn tire wear on and put some realistic road tires on your cars, and then appreciate the game for it's beauty, feeling and feedback, and at being a half-way decent sim, instead of turning it into Burnout or Need 4 Speed.

 

[Watt2159]

I really just use them for time trials, or for really short races, that I just want't to hurry up with.

 

[Corpsey]

My opinion on them would only state the obvious.. although.. without proper pitstopping (refuellers using pumps instead of gravity wells) it's hard to say whether they're more or less realistic.. thus, they simply have the most grip.. that's all I know about them and that's all they seem to simulate. I don't play much with tire wear anymore in time trials because there's no point in "restarting" nurb.. but I will use tire wear in arcade races to keep them challenging and again because they're race softs and race cars don't really have real race pitting... it's hard to compare.

Then again I haven't played for a while and when I do I use sports hard. (or for race cars, race hard or race medium)

 

[Skygrasper550]

just drove the Pagani Zonda R online on Racing Soft tires... the car has NO REAR-END GRIP even in SECOND GEAR. I can't tackle any low-speed corner at optimum speed without spinning out of control, especially the Karussell at the Nordschleife.

I'm starting to hate the online physics. The Zonda R's rear-end grip was already unrealistically low at offline, online just made it worse.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Did you even read what I said? I didn't say anything about slapping RS tires on 300hp road cars. I said that most cars are too quick on their stock tires (which can be racing hards which comes with EVERY race car won or purchased) are too quick on their stock tires.

Which means that most race cars are too quick on racing hards, let alone if they were on racing softs. And where did you get this about GT500's being the most popular racing cars?

If super softs were so accurate, then why do people need to use comfort tires on the F2007/F2010 to replicate real life lap times? Surely that's unrealistic to put cheap all weather tires on a grand prix car, but that's because the racing tires either offer way too much grip or don't brake traction properly.






Have you never watched a single piece of motorsport on TV or in real life? This is just daft.

If your logic was correct, then every race team would use soft tires come race day. When you add real life to the equation, then you have to take into account the extreme tire wear. Teams would be pitting in every few laps and lose time hand over fist to anyone racing on harder, more endurable tires. If you ever became a team manager, I guarantee you would finish dead last come the end of the season.

And you serious about putting RS tires on road cars just because they're the best? What is the point of buying a "simulation" game if you're going to turn it into an arcade game by fitting fantasy tires to every car you have.

Perhaps you should turn tire wear on and put some realistic road tires on your cars, and then appreciate the game for it's beauty, feeling and feedback, and at being a half-way decent sim, instead of turning it into Burnout or Need 4 Speed.

You're grasping at straws dude. I've already shown that lap times in GT500/JGTC cars are pretty much spot on with RS tires if you race online with tire wear, using GT500 specs. I've already covered the F1 example. It's one car out of a thousand and maybe it's not quite modelled correctly. Or maybe it is, and the parameters of this test don't line up with real life. I don't know of this test, maybe you could provide a link, but if it was done offline, with or maybe even without tire wear, that could be all the difference. We need to know the exact parameters of the test if you're going to hold it up as proof anyway. Tires have way more grip offline than online. I haven't driven the F1 much but I do remember that online, with tire wear, times at Nurb GP/F were pretty close to real life Q times at the Grand Prix.

All I see from you is speculation and supposition. Come back when you have some real numbers beyond one car here or there, that show real life examples directly related to GT5 cars under the exact same specs. Understand that it's one tire model for 1000 cars but for me it work fine on GT500 cars. I'm sure you'll find an exception just as I could find exceptions for the grip of street tires, but one exception doesn't mean you throw out the whole theory. And lets see that F1 example beyond a vague reference.

 

[LancerEvo7]

just drove the Pagani Zonda R online on Racing Soft tires... the car has NO REAR-END GRIP even in SECOND GEAR. I can't tackle any low-speed corner at optimum speed without spinning out of control, especially the Karussell at the Nordschleife.

I'm starting to hate the online physics. The Zonda R's rear-end grip was already unrealistically low at offline, online just made it worse.

I have no idea why, but putting on a turbo helps somehow, at least it did last time I checked.

 

[akiradlc]

My opinion on them would only state the obvious.. although.. without proper pitstopping (refuellers using pumps instead of gravity wells) it's hard to say whether they're more or less realistic.. thus, they simply have the most grip.. that's all I know about them and that's all they seem to simulate. I don't play much with tire wear anymore in time trials because there's no point in "restarting" nurb.. but I will use tire wear in arcade races to keep them challenging and again because they're race softs and race cars don't really have real race pitting... it's hard to compare.

Then again I haven't played for a while and when I do I use sports hard. (or for race cars, race hard or race medium)

And for me that's the point.
If you're going to play without tire wear, then it is really unrealistic.
With tire wear however, i think the balance change, i mean, the RS degrade a lot in a short span of time on GT5 (SS tires too).
So let's say there is an online race with tire wear on, 42 laps, 650pp and free tire choice for every one. The times those who choose the RS tires to race will need to pit because the cars would simply not have enough traction at some point, would completely destroy the race for them if the others where using RH.

Just my opinion, never actually tested it.

 

[mikeonthebike]

You're grasping at straws dude. I've already shown that lap times in GT500/JGTC cars are pretty much spot on with RS tires if you race online with tire wear, using GT500 specs. I've already covered the F1 example. It's one car out of a thousand and maybe it's not quite modelled correctly. Or maybe it is, and the parameters of this test don't line up with real life. I don't know of this test, maybe you could provide a link, but if it was done offline, with or maybe even without tire wear, that could be all the difference. We need to know the exact parameters of the test if you're going to hold it up as proof anyway. Tires have way more grip offline than online. I haven't driven the F1 much but I do remember that online, with tire wear, times at Nurb GP/F were pretty close to real life Q times at the Grand Prix.

All I see from you is speculation and supposition. Come back when you have some real numbers beyond one car here or there, that show real life examples directly related to GT5 cars under the exact same specs. Understand that it's one tire model for 1000 cars but for me it work fine on GT500 cars. I'm sure you'll find an exception just as I could find exceptions for the grip of street tires, but one exception doesn't mean you throw out the whole theory. And lets see that F1 example beyond a vague reference.

I've run the f2007, and the f10 AND Formula Gt with comfort softs online, offline, even in arcade mode, Tire wear always on, grip reduction at edge of track realistic or high (whatever that setting is called)

I didn't come up with the f1 comfort soft thing but the video IS in this thread and I'll have to post it up again. I didn't make the vid. I never tried them with comforts softs untill I saw this video and now I'm sold. My friends and I are GOOD drivers with lots of real world driving exp. We had sessions in past where we would drive the f2007 at spa with racing softs untill you beat the ghost then the next person hops in my chassis and has a go till he beats the ghost.

All that being said I blew away those racing soft times within 2 laps while wearing comfort softs tires with no abs. It's all about the feedback. The car talks to you on comfort softs.


Now here is the video that Lewis is referring to.

 

[OK8]

And for me that's the point.
If you're going to play without tire wear, then it is really unrealistic.
With tire wear however, i think the balance change, i mean, the RS degrade a lot in a short span of time on GT5 (SS tires too).
So let's say there is an online race with tire wear on, 42 laps, 650pp and free tire choice for every one. The times those who choose the RS tires to race will need to pit because the cars would simply not have enough traction at some point, would completely destroy the race for them if the others where using RH.

Just my opinion, never actually tested it.

That would be the optimal situation but the truth is that RS tyres are so much faster than RH that even if you pit every other lap you'll still win. PD really screwed up when they started playing with the tyre degradation values. There's still no strategy if you have free choice of tyres, RS will always prevail if the race is a long one.

I think the Ferrari times matching at Spa with comfort soft is more due to the fact of unrealistic downforce. It's difficult to find a good combination but I'm with most people here, RS tyres are boring to run. With GT500s, RHs are really fun to drive.

I'm really hoping PD would adjust the rates at which tyres wear. Softs could stay as they are (or go back to how long they lasted before the update), but hards need to last a lot longer to compete against the speed of softs.

Tyres/PP is like the difficulty setting in this game. The lower you go on the tyres and higher on the power the more fun it becomes.

 

[Prototyp3]

Have you never watched a single piece of motorsport on TV or in real life? This is just daft.

If your logic was correct, then every race team would use soft tires come race day. When you add real life to the equation, then you have to take into account the extreme tire wear. Teams would be pitting in every few laps and lose time hand over fist to anyone racing on harder, more endurable tires. If you ever became a team manager, I guarantee you would finish dead last come the end of the season.

And you serious about putting RS tires on road cars just because they're the best? What is the point of buying a "simulation" game if you're going to turn it into an arcade game by fitting fantasy tires to every car you have.

Perhaps you should turn tire wear on and put some realistic road tires on your cars, and then appreciate the game for it's beauty, feeling and feedback, and at being a half-way decent sim, instead of turning it into Burnout or Need 4 Speed.

GT5 doesn't take into consideration most of the real life factors that you mentioned. It may be a "simulator" but, it's still really just a game.

I would always choose the best possible tire in real life which would mean that it would vary from time to time, this is obvious, but thank you for pointing it out. In GT5 however, Racing Soft tires, for nearly all racing is the best choice. The tires don't degrade enough to matter on 3 and 5 laps.

Also, I hardly play the main game, or online at all. I do laps in Time Trial racing against my ghosts.

 

[ZR1fan]

I have no idea why, but putting on a turbo helps somehow, at least it did last time I checked.

That's gotta be something to do with the boost bulld and gearing.. My tuned 300ZX is like that.. 670 horses through two wheels, ya hammer it, and the car just hooks up and goes like hell. I think I hit the sweet spot between turbo and gearing with that one, which is funny because that car rarely gets out anymore. The only other tuned rear wheel drive cars of mine that hook up and just go the way that one does are the Z06 and ZR1 (both non RM.. Even though I have RM versions of each), and I spent DAYS tuning them.

 

[mikeonthebike]

That would be the optimal situation but the truth is that RS tyres are so much faster than RH that even if you pit every other lap you'll still win. PD really screwed up when they started playing with the tyre degradation values. There's still no strategy if you have free choice of tyres, RS will always prevail if the race is a long one.

I think the Ferrari times matching at Spa with comfort soft is more due to the fact of unrealistic downforce. It's difficult to find a good combination but I'm with most people here, RS tyres are boring to run. With GT500s, RHs are really fun to drive.

I'm really hoping PD would adjust the rates at which tyres wear. Softs could stay as they are (or go back to how long they lasted before the update), but hards need to last a lot longer to compete against the speed of softs.

Tyres/PP is like the difficulty setting in this game. The lower you go on the tyres and higher on the power the more fun it becomes.

If you watch the video I posted on youtube (not just the video player thats showing in the post) and look at the description at the bottom of video there is details of most of his tune that I used along with my own lsd and suspension settings since they weren't provided. The downforce listed is 90 front rear 120 and that's less downforce than the default for the f2007.

Although you could have been referring to unrealistic downforce of that particular car in gt5.

Another thing to think about here is the Mercedes driving challenge that happened last year. Tires were restricted to comfort soft I've been researching the tires for that car and this is what I found below in a review.


"In front, the SLS AMG wheels are 9.5 inches wide, 19 inches in diameter, and are shod wîth 265 / 35 R 19 tires. The rear wheels measure 11.0 x 20 inches, wîth 295 / 30 R 20 tires that are nearly a foot wide. The SLS AMG tires use an exclusive rubber compound wîth grip on dry surfaces that's comparable to today's road racing tires, but wîth none of their disadvantages in the wet and cold"

and I found this

"Continental Supplies Tyres for Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG "

06/09/2010

Further approval for new ContiSportContact 5 P
Tyres deliver best combination of sportiness and safe handling
Worldwide cooperation between Mercedes-AMG Driving Academy and Continental


Car Tires

Hanover, 10 June 2010. The new ContiSportContact 5 P, part of the portfolio of high*-tech tyres for sports cars and super sports cars since spring, has now also been approved by Mercedes-AMG.


So from all of that I take it that comfort softs are comparable to these contisportcontact 5p which are comparable to todays road racing tires.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I've run the f2007, and the f10 AND Formula Gt with comfort softs online, offline, even in arcade mode, Tire wear always on, grip reduction at edge of track realistic or high (whatever that setting is called)

I didn't come up with the f1 comfort soft thing but the video IS in this thread and I'll have to post it up again. I didn't make the vid. I never tried them with comforts softs untill I saw this video and now I'm sold. My friends and I are GOOD drivers with lots of real world driving exp. We had sessions in past where we would drive the f2007 at spa with racing softs untill you beat the ghost then the next person hops in my chassis and has a go till he beats the ghost.

All that being said I blew away those racing soft times within 2 laps while wearing comfort softs tires with no abs. It's all about the feedback. The car talks to you on comfort softs.


Now here is the video that Lewis is referring to.

Thanks, that clears things up a lot. If as you say the F1 cars are faster on CS tires than on RS tires, that's doesn't indicate that RS tires are too grippy, but rather the RS tire model doesn't work very well with the F1 car. Because if it was, as many people are saying, too grippy, and CS times are comparable to real life F1 times then on RS tires then you would literally almost be flat out everywhere in an F1 car on RS tires, but the truth is, RS tires are slower, not faster. This indicates a flaw in the programming with that particular car, which is why I've said over and over, that one data point doesn't prove anything, and in this case, now that I can see all the info around it, it proves there's a flaw in the programming of this particular car when with all tires. So anyone that has used the F1 car on CS tires as an example of why RS tires are too grippy that argument is now gone by the wayside.

It's entirely possible that Kaz programmed RS tires to work best based on the GT500 model I have no idea, but I wouldn't bet against it.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

In part, that's sort of my point. The RS tires really belong on race cars, not street cars, and when on race cars, their performance is pretty close to real life. Maybe not exactly, and maybe not on all cars but pretty darn close, and certainly nowhere near "magic" status, or being made of "unobtainium"...:crazy:. And just to be clear, when I say GT500, I'm referring to any GT500 or SuperGT or JGTC car at 502 hp and stock weight. I don't know of anyone with those specs running in the low 1:50's, online, with tire wear on. Offline maybe, with more than 502 hp maybe, with high draft or boost on maybe. But not at spec power and weight.

Here is a lap in 1:50s.


I think I should be able to hit 1:49s with my stealth model GT500 labelled cars as they will probably have the acceleration and speed similar to real life.

Thanks, that clears things up a lot. If as you say the F1 cars are faster on CS tires than on RS tires, that's doesn't indicate that RS tires are too grippy, but rather the RS tire model doesn't work very well with the F1 car. Because if it was, as many people are saying, too grippy, and CS times are comparable to real life F1 times then on RS tires then you would literally almost be flat out everywhere in an F1 car on RS tires, but the truth is, RS tires are slower, not faster. This indicates a flaw in the programming with that particular car, which is why I've said over and over, that one data point doesn't prove anything, and in this case, now that I can see all the info around it, it proves there's a flaw in the programming of this particular car when with all tires. So anyone that has used the F1 car on CS tires as an example of why RS tires are too grippy that argument is now gone by the wayside.

It's entirely possible that Kaz programmed RS tires to work best based on the GT500 model I have no idea, but I wouldn't bet against it.

Racing softs most likely will be faster by quite a few seconds for the vast majority on the F1 car.

 

[avens]

what this guy doesn't get is "Racing" and "Sports" tires are just a name.

 

[JDMKING13]

If you watch the video I posted on youtube (not just the video player thats showing in the post) and look at the description at the bottom of video there is details of most of his tune that I used along with my own lsd and suspension settings since they weren't provided. The downforce listed is 90 front rear 120 and that's less downforce than the default for the f2007.

Although you could have been referring to unrealistic downforce of that particular car in gt5.

Another thing to think about here is the Mercedes driving challenge that happened last year. Tires were restricted to comfort soft I've been researching the tires for that car and this is what I found below in a review.


"In front, the SLS AMG wheels are 9.5 inches wide, 19 inches in diameter, and are shod wîth 265 / 35 R 19 tires. The rear wheels measure 11.0 x 20 inches, wîth 295 / 30 R 20 tires that are nearly a foot wide. The SLS AMG tires use an exclusive rubber compound wîth grip on dry surfaces that's comparable to today's road racing tires, but wîth none of their disadvantages in the wet and cold"

and I found this

"Continental Supplies Tyres for Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG "

06/09/2010

Further approval for new ContiSportContact 5 P
Tyres deliver best combination of sportiness and safe handling
Worldwide cooperation between Mercedes-AMG Driving Academy and Continental


Car Tires

Hanover, 10 June 2010. The new ContiSportContact 5 P, part of the portfolio of high*-tech tyres for sports cars and super sports cars since spring, has now also been approved by Mercedes-AMG.


So from all of that I take it that comfort softs are comparable to these contisportcontact 5p which are comparable to todays road racing tires.

Dude ContiSportContact are not road racing tires Its a max performance tire. On a track those tires will burn up after a few laps. CS tires in my league are the best tires you can get on a stock production car in most cases. You want street legal road racing tires then you need to talk about the following


Michelin

Pilot Sport Cup

Pilot Sport Cup ZP

Pilot Sport Cup+ / N-Spec

Pirelli

P Zero Corsa System

Toyo

Proxes R888

Proxes RA1

Proxes TQ

Yokohama

ADVAN A048

These tires in my league can range from SH to SS and I believe these are true street legal road racing tires. Tires are a huge part of my up and coming league I have done tons of research and even called tire rack for information. Obviously I didn't say it was for GT5 I asked if I was picking between tires for my 07 SI. I think the the tires are just find as long as the user don't abuse the tire choice. I think if PD can make the Mediums and Hard better out of the racing tires we will be OK. My note to PD is I appreciate the many tire selections we have however PLEASE GET SOME REAL DAMN TIRE PHYSICS this will make the GT series a lot better in many ways! 👍

 

[Johnnypenso]

Here is a lap in 1:50s.

I think I should be able to hit 1:49s with my stealth model GT500 labelled cars as they will probably have the acceleration and speed similar to real life.

I've heard of this Tony guy and yes he's very, very fast. He's also the smoothest driver in the world because he has a warm up lap and two hot laps and zero tire wear. Nice try but no cigar. As I've said numerous times, I'm talking about online physics, with tire wear, 502 hp and stock weight. Offline and no tire wear physics and grip levels are completely different and you cannot compare results under those different options.

 

[DoggyB22]

Not as grippy as they SHOULD be for costing $35k!!!!

 

[hairystig]

Ok as a general rule of thumb I say the car type gives away which tyres it should be using I.e. Sports tyres for sports cars racing tyres for racing cars, Imo I feel you're going to get the most out of the game using lowest grade of tyres possible but far too many people use racing softs online for all cars so if you want to be competitive with them you have to follow suit.
Racing softs are just far to grippy, i feel softs make handling so much easier (too easy imo) its almost like running with traction control set to 5 only without the loss in speed you get from traction control, perhaps PD should make softs degrade even faster so they'd be useless after only one hot lap therefore making softs like qualifying tyres.

 

[Furinkazen]

Now when I run online competitions for longer races I allow only RM and RH compounds, as softs are too grippy with too much of an advantage.

 

[Whitestar]

The better I got at driving the less I liked the RS tires. Now they are kind of boring. Can't really feel the car's physics with them.

 

[C6.R]

I don't use them on street cars.
In my opinion it takes the character away from the cars.
for instance ; Corvette ZR1,bloody hard to drive on sports hard,but once you master it you will get rewarded with mindblowing speed.
and if you put race soft under it,you can just go flat out immidiatly at the and of a corner.

So,I don't like them and only use them on race cars

 

[krasch27]

I agree with c6.r & whitestar..RS tyres on road cars are like "taking a gun to a knife-fight" in A-spec.

 

[OK8]

With all this talk of running formula 1 cars with comfort soft I got a brainwave and decided to host a room running an oval track and NASCAR cars with comfort soft. Quite good fun it turns out to be, really requires that "soft touch" Jeff Gorfon was talking about.

The idea isn't turning out to be that popular though... Have had a room up for quite a while with no-one joining

if any of you are interested, room number is: 1472-6118-3916-1736-4154
Well someone atleast joined and we ran a couple races which was really good fun. You can actually lose the rear with comfort softs and in the curves it gets really tense when you're running behind someone else. Must try this again sometime.

 

[cbabb]

I don't use them on street cars.
In my opinion it takes the character away from the cars.
for instance ; Corvette ZR1,bloody hard to drive on sports hard,but once you master it you will get rewarded with mindblowing speed.
and if you put race soft under it,you can just go flat out immidiatly at the and of a corner.

So,I don't like them and only use them on race cars

All of that ^

Racing soft are meant for racing pedigree cars. Putting them on a production street car takes the fun out of driving them. They are ridiculously sticky.
I used to game with someone who constantly used them. At one point he chose racing hard on a RM TVR and I was keeping up and passed him in a stock Murciélago on SS. He even went on to claim he was unable to stay ahead due to 'no tune'. Wrong. Another ludacris rebuttal to my statements was, "You'd be surprised. Racing hard are slower than sports soft." If that were the case, then why are they named racing tires and a grade higher than SS? I honestly get tired of seeing everyone online using the same tires to make it easy for them and look like they can drive.

 

[AJ11]

I have a friend who I hate racing with or against. He puts all the driver aids on trac,skid,asc,abs,and the turning help!(can't remember what that's called) then no matter what class where racing he has to put racing softs on. Then in the rare chance he wins he brags about being the better driver! I wanna choke him! He just doesn't get it. I made him drive like me( all aids off and appropriate tires for the class) he couldn't even finish a lap. And said quote " this is stupid why would anyone ever drive like this its just not fun" "cars are meant to have traction control on" (yes he owns a copy of the game) Racing softs make any driver a good driver! I only use them on 650pp plus no driver aids except abs on 1 or 2. Never on a awd car never way to much grip! If you put them on a super light they will roll because of the insane grip. I bought a something blade one of the Chatham super lights, 225HP and under 400k took it down the nurb ring I flipped it 4 times just from turning! up till that point I didn't know you could flip a car.