Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Tornado]

Most of the assets from GT:HD were ported over the GT5 when it was canceled, and GT5 is GT5. It isn't 6 years by any stretch, but 5 probably isn't that far off when it comes to the actual assets.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

So the confirmation is that the 800 standard cars have been imported from the PSP. But the PSP cars actually had a generic interior. Since these cars were imported from the PSP, why dont they have an interior view while driving in GT5??? Something would have been better than nothing at all. Especially since there was a basic interior view on the PSP. Just wondering?
Example of interior view on PSP.

 

[regnar]

Most of the assets from GT:HD were ported over the GT5 when it was canceled, and GT5 is GT5. It isn't 6 years by any stretch, but 5 probably isn't that far off when it comes to the actual assets.

I can think of a couple of cars that come to mind for a example, the Lamborghini NOMAD Diablo GT-1 (JGTC) '00 & the Dodge Viper GTS-R Team Oreca Race Car #51 '00 where most likely modeled close to tens years ago & a lot of other cars carried over from GT3 into GT4.

 

[Pierced Lead]

So the confirmation is that the 800 standard cars have been imported from the PSP. But the PSP cars actually had a generic interior. Since these cars were imported from the PSP, why dont they have an interior view while driving in GT5??? Something would have been better than nothing at all. Especially since there was a basic interior view on the PSP. Just wondering?
Example of interior view on PSP.

lolwhut? Did you see how low quality that is?

You can say that that interior was just slapped onto the cars to give an interior view, but I don't think it could've been the same for GT5.

 

[R390GT1'97]

Standard cars are a bit disappointing but considering the amount of time and effort put in to single car. I still think the game is perfect though.

 

[Grand Prix]

Now what's even worse is that they made a VW Van and some crappy old Fiat as a premium car, but don't make cars like Bugatti Veyron as a Premium car! They really need to start patching the game offering more Premium Cars.

 

[IceMan PJN]

My wishlist of cars to be converted to Premium:

2. Bugatti Veyron.

That's actually high on my list of cars I don't want them converting to Premium. I mean, I don't so much mind if it's upgraded to Premium so long as it's one of the last cars to get upgraded, after at least half the other Standard cars get upgraded first.

Of course, the reason for this is my undying hatred for the car. It's not even the car's fault or Bugatti's fault, either, but rather you guys (people in general). I'm so friggin' sick of hearing ceaseless mention of this undeservedly overhyped turd bucket. It's not the greatest supercar ever manufactured and can be outraced by several other production cars, but people keep pretending that it's the god of automobiles.

Never thought I'd say it but PD looks to have some serious competition in Forza 4.

They have some serious competition in FM3, which actually still holds up nicely after more than a year and still holds some advantages over GT5's head.

Standard cars are a bit disappointing but considering the amount of time and effort put in to single car. I still think the game is perfect though.

Turn 10 managed to produce twice as many Premium cars in just two years. Yes, a great many of FM3's cars were also in FM2 (not sure how many) but all of them were upgraded to better models constructed of several times as many polygons as FM2's car models. If Turn 10 can whip up 400+ Premium car models in just two years, why can Polyphony only do half of that in more than twice the time?

 

[alonsof1fan91]

Kazunori knows how to make a great racing game. He's made four of them, and his fifth with all its faults is pretty amazing. And apparently he knows full well that GT5 wasn't finished. I know of no other producer who says, "While we work on the sequel, we're going to be constantly improving this one."

(0:21 to 0:26)

Oh come on, don`t fool yourself.

Almost everyhting in this game is half assed.

GT5 makes alot of fun if you only want to drive your car, collect cars or have friends to make online races because its a good simulator, but its a bad game.

I wonder how your posts would look like if FM3 would be like GT5.

And yeah, you haven`t played alot of games. Last week Dice brought out a huge patch for Battlefield 2142 (This game is 3 to 4 years old and had 3 successors since then) and presented the addon "northern strike" to all gamers.

Of course, the reason for this is my undying hatred for the car. It's not even the car's fault or Bugatti's fault, either, but rather you guys (people in general). I'm so friggin' sick of hearing ceaseless mention of this undeservedly overhyped turd bucket. It's not the greatest supercar ever manufactured and can be outraced by several other production cars, but people keep pretending that it's the god of automobiles.

Yep. That`s because there are still some people around who don`t understand that for example Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren aren`t intend to create high performance vehicles (track cars) with a 458 italia/Gallardo/SLS AMG. They make sports cars they want to sell. Nobody needs to tell me that the Ferrari engineers wanted to create a high performance car with the F430. No, just no. Even the Enzo Ferrari isn`t really build for ultimate performance.
Its just stupid to compare road cars. Manufacturers could make the cars alot faster if they want.
You can compare lmp1 cars (908 vs R15/18) or F1 cars (F1 vs Mp4-26) but not a ZR1 vs Veyron vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG. It just makes no sense.

 

[Electric_Wizard]

Oh come on, don`t fool yourself.

Almost everyhting in this game is half assed.

GT5 makes alot of fun if you only want to drive your car, collect cars or have friends to make online races because its a good simulator, but its a bad game.

I wonder how your posts would look like if FM3 would be like GT5.

Actually this made me lol.
I mean, the fact that this game is "half-assed" like you say implies that people who like it are fooling themselves? That's some awesome logic, really.
And it's hilarious that people continue to bring FM3 on. It's becoming pretty repetitive.

 

[nickg07]

Single player mode is half baked though, i mean the logical flow in the game the prizes, the amount of XP points required. It just doesnt make sense im sorry.

I love GT and only play GT but seriously, if things dont improve even further then who knows what will happen next generation, FM4? FM5? and GT6...

PD had such a great product. You could take any boggo motor, modify it hugely, race modify a lot of them, and have loads of challenges to pout your car through...

Unfortunately GT has gone backwards. It is sad tyo say, PD seem to be obsessed with Graphics of the interior of premium cars, down to the stitching - which is great but when that comes ahead of making a fantastic GAME, then you know they have lost their way somewhere.

It happens to all great franchises, they start out so compelling and new and fresh, then before you know it, you have FFXIII - and deal with that:/

PD Please dont ignore those who made the franchise what it is today!

 

[Tenacious D]

Turn 10 managed to produce twice as many Premium cars in just two years. Yes, a great many of FM3's cars were also in FM2 (not sure how many) but all of them were upgraded to better models constructed of several times as many polygons as FM2's car models. If Turn 10 can whip up 400+ Premium car models in just two years, why can Polyphony only do half of that in more than twice the time?

Primarily because it wasn't just Turn 10. MS farmed out work to an untold number of modeling shops from all over the world, and imported all the models from the previous two games, bugs and all. And it looks it. If there was any actual quality control team at work in T10, it would be fine, but evidently they get paid to do little or nothing. Or maybe there is no quality team.

There's also the matter of the whole company philosophy. T10 seems much like EA, in it for the money, and loving care and pride in work done is a hit and run casualty on the way to the bank. Forza is a nice series and all, but the polish covers a lot of rust untouched in the rush to get every game to market ASAP.

Polyphony is different, much like a family, and as tight with their secrets as a ninja clan. And while Dan Greenawalt has shops modify his car, Kazunori takes the time to understand and master them. Unlike any game developer I'm aware of, Kaz can participate in pro races, and compete head to head, and earned the respect of the industry. Gran Turismo is his baby, and he's not about to let others tinker with his offspring.

So, after four very good games, why is GT5 so frooked in so many ways? I doubt we'll ever know the real truth, because Kaz is a loyal company man, and none of the PD-ites will ever say a word about anything. But my money is on SONY meddling, first in demanding GT PSP be produced in the middle of GT5's development, then insisting that GT5 be made into a 3D game. Plus, the online playground Kaz talked about supporting millions of players apparently can't run on the current PSN. Apparently the focus was on that, not the offline single player game, and when this massive online game couldn't be done for now, this is all we got. I can't explain the schizophrenic game that PD produced any other way.

Still, this weird little game is the only thing that interests me. I don't care about other racing games right now, or for the foreseeable future. When Forza 4 comes along, things may well change, but it's still going to be a supercar-heavy GT copycat with a livery editor, and you'll have to pay for online play. It won't be the same, it won't be as good, I don't believe, because Turn 10 isn't on the same level as Polyphony. And I don't think they really care about their game, to be honest. It just doesn't show.

Even as strange as GT5 is, Forza 3 and my entire 360 racing rig are just a few feet from me, in bags from when I disassembled everything last year to go back to GT4. Meanwhile, as I type this, the smooth jazz menu music from GT5 is playing on the stereo. I've been up all night racing again, because I just can't stop playing GT5. Sad, yes, but I've been waiting for five plus years for this game, and even though it isn't bigger than GT4 or Forza 3, or more complete, and there's no livery editor, what is there is freaking amazing. Eventually, I'll open up the Course Maker, and Photo Mode, and it's going to get even more amazing. And with DLC, it's going to grow in the future.

I know people say that Forza 4 is going to force Kaz to step up his game, but I think it's the other way round. GT5 ranked up more orders in one month than Forza 2 did in three years, and no one is crowing about how well F3 has been doing sales wise. I don't think this is do or die time for Forza, but they have a big shadow over them they just can't seem to shake, and seem fated to be "those other guys" while we wait for the next GT game.

 

[nickg07]

Polyphony is different, much like a family, and as tight with their secrets as a ninja clan. And while Dan Greenawalt has shops modify his car, Kazunori takes the time to understand and master them. Unlike any game developer I'm aware of, Kaz can participate in pro races, and compete head to head, and earned the respect of the industry. Gran Turismo is his baby, and he's not about to let others tinker with his offspring.

I think the problem is Kaz, he is trying to create a work of art that HE would love to see on the shelves, not the game that the average player wants unfortunately. Kaz forget Bikes, forget Go Karts, forget leather stitching, give us customiseable Transmissions, race set ups, you know the Nitty gritty of what makes a good long lasting game, not just aesthetic glory that is shallow after you have seen it the first few times..

Primarily because it wasn't just Turn 10. MS farmed out work to an untold number of modeling shops from all over the world, and imported all the models from the previous two games, bugs and all. And it looks it. If there was any actual quality control team at work in T10, it would be fine, but evidently they get paid to do little or nothing. Or maybe there is no quality team.

Wheras PD have showered themselves in glory with a Skyline that had a toy manufacturer stamp on the bottom? An Audi V10 with an Audi V8 badge on it? And thats on a premium car too..

 

[Tornado]

Primarily because it wasn't just Turn 10. MS farmed out work to an untold number of modeling shops from all over the world, and imported all the models from the previous two games, bugs and all.

800+ models ported straight from the previous two games in the series, with literally nothing done to enhance almost any of them. And it definitely shows. Now, I know this is going to go right over your head because it did the last 100 times it was said to you, but you are accusing Turn 10 of being lazy for reusing assets when they did 10 times more work improving those reused assets than PD ever did for their returning models.
You are saying Turn 10 phoned in their quality control for their models returning from Forza 1 and 2? PD didn't even send a fax for the Standards.



Finally:

But my money is on SONY meddling, first in demanding GT PSP be produced in the middle of GT5's development,

You keep saying this as a fact when we know it isn't (and you have been told it isn't, multiple times) and I'm going to report you.

 

[Spagetti69]

Kaz maybe the only developer who goes racing but I wish he would stay behind his desk and work on the game.

Invite drivers in to give feedback. He even had Vettle sat down with him but put him in a wipeout clone.

 

[rebla47]

I buy and play with premiun cars only. For me, the standart cars remain.

In year 2010, in the HD era, I can not imagine keep playing with a camera mounted in the front bumper, and to see replays with dark car glasses, in the best car game, when rivals has interior views and other features.

 

[diegorborges]

Primarily because it wasn't just Turn 10. MS farmed out work to an untold number of modeling shops from all over the world, and imported all the models from the previous two games, bugs and all. And it looks it. If there was any actual quality control team at work in T10, it would be fine, but evidently they get paid to do little or nothing. Or maybe there is no quality team.

There's also the matter of the whole company philosophy. T10 seems much like EA, in it for the money, and loving care and pride in work done is a hit and run casualty on the way to the bank. Forza is a nice series and all, but the polish covers a lot of rust untouched in the rush to get every game to market ASAP.

Polyphony is different, much like a family, and as tight with their secrets as a ninja clan. And while Dan Greenawalt has shops modify his car, Kazunori takes the time to understand and master them. Unlike any game developer I'm aware of, Kaz can participate in pro races, and compete head to head, and earned the respect of the industry. Gran Turismo is his baby, and he's not about to let others tinker with his offspring.

So, after four very good games, why is GT5 so frooked in so many ways? I doubt we'll ever know the real truth, because Kaz is a loyal company man, and none of the PD-ites will ever say a word about anything. But my money is on SONY meddling, first in demanding GT PSP be produced in the middle of GT5's development, then insisting that GT5 be made into a 3D game. Plus, the online playground Kaz talked about supporting millions of players apparently can't run on the current PSN. Apparently the focus was on that, not the offline single player game, and when this massive online game couldn't be done for now, this is all we got. I can't explain the schizophrenic game that PD produced any other way.

Still, this weird little game is the only thing that interests me. I don't care about other racing games right now, or for the foreseeable future. When Forza 4 comes along, things may well change, but it's still going to be a supercar-heavy GT copycat with a livery editor, and you'll have to pay for online play. It won't be the same, it won't be as good, I don't believe, because Turn 10 isn't on the same level as Polyphony. And I don't think they really care about their game, to be honest. It just doesn't show.

Even as strange as GT5 is, Forza 3 and my entire 360 racing rig are just a few feet from me, in bags from when I disassembled everything last year to go back to GT4. Meanwhile, as I type this, the smooth jazz menu music from GT5 is playing on the stereo. I've been up all night racing again, because I just can't stop playing GT5. Sad, yes, but I've been waiting for five plus years for this game, and even though it isn't bigger than GT4 or Forza 3, or more complete, and there's no livery editor, what is there is freaking amazing. Eventually, I'll open up the Course Maker, and Photo Mode, and it's going to get even more amazing. And with DLC, it's going to grow in the future.

I know people say that Forza 4 is going to force Kaz to step up his game, but I think it's the other way round. GT5 ranked up more orders in one month than Forza 2 did in three years, and no one is crowing about how well F3 has been doing sales wise. I don't think this is do or die time for Forza, but they have a big shadow over them they just can't seem to shake, and seem fated to be "those other guys" while we wait for the next GT game.

👍 Epic post buddy, you should earn a cookie, or a beer. You choose

Same feelings here. I'm here, eating a sandwich, petting my cat and browsing GTP while Bob is earning me some bucks for a new fleet of nice rides. Just had a blast in a Daihatsu SR-XX... 180hp on that? Yeah, its a standard, and its FUN as hell... Just bought another one, in 4WD... and got a pink color chip separated for it. Project Hello-sleeper-kitty shall we?

These feelings... only GT... only GT makes you feel like that. I have played hundreds of racing games... and only GT have this feeling. It's weird, almost like a disease or whatever, but I can't stop playing. Even if I do hate some guys @ PD for not letting me change my rims on my S14!!! Damn you guys!

And btw, nice signature too.

 

[McLaren]

800+ models ported straight from the previous two games in the series, with literally nothing done to enhance almost any of them. And it definitely shows. Now, I know this is going to go right over your head because it did the last 100 times it was said to you, but you are accusing Turn 10 of being lazy for reusing assets when they did 10 times more work improving those reused assets than PD ever did for their returning models.
You are saying Turn 10 phoned in their quality control for their models returning from Forza 1 and 2? PD didn't even send a fax for the Standards.

This doesn't surprise me. It's still the same ol', "T10 should be criticized for their actions, but I forgive PD for doing the same."

 

[SavageEvil]

800+ models ported straight from the previous two games in the series, with literally nothing done to enhance almost any of them. And it definitely shows. Now, I know this is going to go right over your head because it did the last 100 times it was said to you, but you are accusing Turn 10 of being lazy for reusing assets when they did 10 times more work improving those reused assets than PD ever did for their returning models.
You are saying Turn 10 phoned in their quality control for their models returning from Forza 1 and 2? PD didn't even send a fax for the Standards.



Finally:

You keep saying this as a fact when we know it isn't (and you have been told it isn't, multiple times) and I'm going to report you.

I tire of this stuff, considering that FM2 and FM3 are built on the same system, there really wasn't much in the way of brand new cars that they had to bust their asses get done. FM3 has how many cars again? 450? Pretty much the same cars from the previous game, which was built on the same system architecture therefore they didn't have to rebuild the vast majority of their cars. You talk to much and think too little.

GT5 has cars from two different SKU builds, one was based off 8+ year old technology, in fact if you check the varying quality in standards that were made for the PSPGT opposed to those spruced up from GT4, you can see that there was some kind of hack job.

Premium cars in GT5 were built for GT5, taking more time than necessary than pretty much all of GT4. Since you like to get technical, they technically had to add standard cars in to the game as a whole doesn't look empty with only 231 cars. How were they supposed to take GTPSP assets and somehow make those cars look anything like those premium cars, heck or even like the cars from GTHD? Without rebuilding the entire car model, that wasn't going to happen and GT5 still make it to market by ship date.

FM3 using old assets was a benefit to their game, but what worked out more in their favor was the fact that FM2 was built for the 360, therefore giving T10 completely useable assets that didn't really need much more than polygon beefing up. Think that PD could have just done that with those car from GTPSP? Yes, but the problem was GTPSP cars had skins, so there was the problem. GT5 cars do not have skins, they have full polygonal individual rendered sections, there was no way PD could take 800+ cars and rebuild them to GT5 premium spec, even 200 cars would take a lot of time.

I don't care about either, Premium or standard as long as my physics are cranking, and I spend a lot of time in standards online. I play the Super GT races almost exclusively, tell you what; it doesn't matter. Physics are all the same, mechanical damage is all the same, since I can't see my car while driving and bumper cam is the most useful for me...I enjoy both of them all the same.

To be honest, GT5 premium cars are still a step above FM3, GT5 cars have full interiors, not just the front of the cab like in FM3. In car view in GT5 looking back shows you from an interior view what it looks like to look behind. Not just snapping to the outside view, I always thought that was stupid to do, but who cares. I never like interior view in FM3, way too close to the steering wheel and very little view of the road. GT5 has the same problem not enough view of the road.

 

[FULL_THROTTLE]

I just found out today that standard cars don't work in photo mode and parts can't be changed in that auto shop, what's the point of them!?

Also, is it just me or do standard cars have tinted/darker windows than premium cars?

They should just make them all premium AND make DLC for future cars, weather etc, then this game will fully PWN

 

[Tornado]

You talk to much and think too little.

And you can't read. You'll note that we were talking about Forza 1 as well, and those cars were obviously upgraded somewhat between Forza 1 and Forza 2 (then upgraded again for Forza 3). Exactly what PD didn't do for any of the Standard models.

How were they supposed to take GTPSP assets and somehow make those cars look anything like those premium cars, heck or even like the cars from GTHD? Without rebuilding the entire car model, that wasn't going to happen and GT5 still make it to market by ship date.

For starters, it would have been nice if PD bothered cleaning up the textures on the really bad looking Standards (the Dodge Ram, the CLK-DTM, the Diablo JGTC, etc.). Again, you've completely misread the conversation. The problem isn't that the Standards look bad or that PD didn't do enough to clean them up. It is that PD didn't do anything to them to try to improve them, yet some members still have the balls to chew out Turn 10 for putting more effort into the reused assets than PD did.

Think that PD could have just done that with those car from GTPSP? Yes, but the problem was GTPSP cars had skins, so there was the problem. GT5 cars do not have skins, they have full polygonal individual rendered sections, there was no way PD could take 800+ cars and rebuild them to GT5 premium spec, even 200 cars would take a lot of time.

So you are saying that since PD couldn't have made the Standards into Premiums easily (which is true, but is also PD's fault in the first place), doing nothing was the correct course of action in response to the obvious quality differences? Because that is the issue here. You aren't saying anything we don't already know, as we've been down that road before. The current issue is whether Turn 10 should be criticized for reusing assets and upgrading them a little bit for the game when PD reused assets wholesale and didn't upgrade them at all (which, obviously, they shouldn't be).

 

[SavageEvil]

And you can't read. You'll note that we were talking about Forza 1 as well, and those cars were obviously upgraded somewhat between Forza 1 and Forza 2 (then upgraded again for Forza 3). Exactly what PD didn't do for any of the Standard models.


For starters, it would have been nice if PD bothered cleaning up the textures on the really bad looking Standards (the Dodge Ram, the CLK-DTM, the Diablo JGTC, etc.). Again, you've completely misread the conversation. The problem isn't that the Standards look bad or that PD didn't do enough to clean them up. It is that PD didn't do anything to them to try to improve them, yet some members still have the balls to chew out Turn 10 for putting more effort into the reused assets than PD did.


So you are saying that since PD couldn't have made the Standards into Premiums easily (which is true, but is also PD's fault in the first place), doing nothing was the correct course of action in response to the obvious quality differences? Because that is the issue here. You aren't saying anything we don't already know, as we've been down that road before. The current issue is whether Turn 10 should be criticized for reusing assets and upgrading them a little bit for the game when PD reused assets wholesale and didn't upgrade them at all (which, obviously, they shouldn't be).

If you would draw your attention to FM2 and FM3...they were built on 360. Whether or not they were ported from FM1 is of no consequence considering that they obviously were going to use the same assets, which were built of higher polygon counts than those of GT4. When they built FM2, they already had an idea of what kind of system they were working with, yes? How many cars were in FM1? FM2? FM3?

Now you are saying that PD should have updated roughly the same amount of cars in FM3 in GT5? Yes?

Taking the fact that GT5 is the first GT game on PS3, from which they had to build an entirely new engine to run the game. Remember GTHD?!? They scrapped the physics engine from that game too, which was an updated GT4 engine. Mind you they didn't update a single car that came from GT4 in that little online download. Then came GT5P with visuals beyond anything we had previously seen in a GT game, glorified demo with possibilities. Then next out comes GT PSP, wtf? The same team had to build another game while programming for what would be their flagship game?

While many complain about the amount of premium cars, I can care less as I'm more interested in the physics, very refined but still missing some things. I am very appreciative of the extras that they have tossed in, such as night/day transitions on a few courses and wet weather(I hate rain in GT5). While everyone complains, and says Kaz is misguided and what not, I say here is someone who attempts to do more than just be a copy of someone else's game. While you assume they didn't increase the polygon count of the standards, they actually did. The problem was the texture skins on cars, those are horrible and well I don't know why they didn't just increase the resolution, probably tried and it looked worse. Sure the standards could have looked better but at what cost to the release of the game? Each car would have benefited from an artist redoing the coarse lines, but at such a number...800+ I think they chose to just let the rendering engine do what it could. We know by the timing of the announcement of the standard cars, that this was thrown in the mid night hours of GT5 development. They spent all that time adding those headlights, lol.

To be honest, I would have been happy with GT Visions, if you can remember that video. Why did we need super detailed cars? Visions would have been more than enough, just clean up all the coarse edges, bump the polygon count to about 80,000, redo the textures and bam, you would have had GT5 like 4 years ago with 20+ car fields. They could have been testing rain, fog, snow, day/night effects. I sometimes think that technology gets in the way of practicality. GT5 is one such victim of that. Sure GT5 looks beautiful with a 16 premium cars tearing around the course, but at the cost of having visuals about the level of GTHD with possibly twice as many cars and pretty much all the courses from GT4...I wonder what would have happened if Kaz just took off with GT Visions and ran with that idea.

 

[Tornado]

I'll be frank about this:

If you would draw your attention to FM2 and FM3...they were built on 360.

You pretty clearly still haven't read what I've been saying.

Whether or not they were ported from FM1 is of no consequence considering that they obviously were going to use the same assets, which were built of higher polygon counts than those of GT4.

Actually, it makes a pretty big damn difference if you would actually read my first post on this matter and then go back and read the post I was responding to. I'll break it down for you, though, so you hopefully don't regurgitate information that I already know back at me once again:
Turn 10 took their Forza 1 models and updated them with more polys/better textures/whatever for Forza 3.
PD took their GT3/GT4 models and ported them straight to GT5.
Tenacious D (specifically, in this case, but others have done it before him and others will probably still do it after this) criticized the effort that Turn 10 put in upgrading the Forza 1 models (and to a lesser extent, the Forza 2 models) over the years to the current graphical standard, completely ignoring (again, I'll add) that PD did absolutely nothing at all for their older and more dated GT3 (in particular) and GT4 models. All I did was point out the blatant double standard of his criticism. Nothing more. Nothing less.

When they built FM2, they already had an idea of what kind of system they were working with, yes?

When PD made GT3, they had a similar idea. Doesn't change how much better GT4 looked over GT3 most of the time.

How many cars were in FM1? FM2? FM3?

Don't know. Don't care. Doesn't matter for what I was saying.

Now you are saying that PD should have updated roughly the same amount of cars in FM3 in GT5? Yes?

No, I'm not saying that at all.

While you assume they didn't increase the polygon count of the standards, they actually did.

They didn't. They simply used the better base assets that they had for GT4 but couldn't use in that game.

Each car would have benefited from an artist redoing the coarse lines, but at such a number...800+

Then they should have just focused on the notable problem cars. And it isn't difficult to find them.

 

[RedBullRacer]

I find myself saying, I wish this car was a premium more and more with each day. Since the patch that removed the HUD was released, I have been driving premium cars more but it seems most of the fun cars are standards. Can only hope for updates in the future!

 

[alonsof1fan91]

Actually this made me lol.
I mean, the fact that this game is "half-assed" like you say implies that people who like it are fooling themselves? That's some awesome logic, really.
And it's hilarious that people continue to bring FM3 on. It's becoming pretty repetitive.

You got me wrong, look:

I like GT5 because online races are alot of fun. But almost every new feature in this game is very limited.

- Rain/Night only on a few limited circuits

- Headtracking only arcade mode. Why Pd, why. Im sure that there are alot of people out there, who buyed themselve this stupid ps eye just for this game.

- RM only for 17-19 cars

- Mechanical damage online only

- optical damage is very limited, especially on standards

- NASCAR, only 1 event. No Daytona 500?

- New tracks. Yeah its cool, but why are those guy using Madrid, Rome, Cape Ring, Trial Mountain, Grand Valley and Deep Forrest for most races in a-spec. What happend to the beautiful London track? Is there any a-spec event in London? I loved that track... It made alot of fun with a F2007 in GT5P.

- Ferrari F1 cars. Practise&Online only

- Cockpit view. Only for premium

IMO a game that someone likes doesn`t make it immediatly a great game (With "great game" I mean one of those few games you can play anytime and anywhere because they are just pure magic). A game like Shadow of the Collossus is great and epic, GT4 was great for its time (eventhough its outdated like a old Ferrari F40, but its still classic), but I can`t really call GT5 great...

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Seems ironic to me now, how this thread was sort of an omen for what was to come for GT5.

Not only were the vast majority of cars not to be premium, but the game wouldn't be either.

These feelings... only GT... only GT makes you feel like that. I have played hundreds of racing games... and only GT have this feeling. It's weird, almost like a disease or whatever, but I can't stop playing. Even if I do hate some guys @ PD for not letting me change my rims on my S14!!! Damn you guys!

I must say this is first GT game that has not garnered that feeling for me, of which you speak.

Its so woefully short on so many fronts, that magic ability to draw the player in just isn't there this time.

IMO, PD went practically 180 degrees the wrong way with this game, abandoning most of what made the series so satisfying and irresistable in the past.

I can hear it now, " but the online racing is the main thing".
You don't need a game for that, just cars, tracks and physics. Thats what iracing is for.
Oh and nothing is "truly free". I firmly believe the shortcomings of GT5, are due and payable to a great degree, because of the so called "free online".

After waiting over 5 yrs. for this game, the prospect of now being spoon fed DLC to add events and what not, is a borderline insult to me.
Be that as it may, we'll see how it goes.

i'm still playing it, but I don't anticipate that will last long.
Maybe the magic switch will flip on at some point and I will suddenly realize some great hidden uniqueness, I just didn't see before.
Heretofore, I think it will take something a lot more, to make that happen.

 

[dylansan]

So you are saying that since PD couldn't have made the Standards into Premiums easily (which is true, but is also PD's fault in the first place), doing nothing was the correct course of action in response to the obvious quality differences? Because that is the issue here.

I think PD wants to eventually turn all the standards into premiums, but updating each model slightly in each iteration would probably take much more time and effort than updating them to premium with no steps in between. They left them the way they are so their efforts wouldn't be wasted when the eventually "premiumified" them. Plus, I seem to notice that Turn 10 only modifies old models to give them more detail/interiors. A lot of the cars that had an inaccurate shape in Forza 1 still look the same in Forza 3.

 

[Tenacious D]

Turn 10 took their Forza 1 models and updated them with more polys/better textures/whatever for Forza 3.
PD took their GT3/GT4 models and ported them straight to GT5.
Tenacious D (specifically, in this case, but others have done it before him and others will probably still do it after this) criticized the effort that Turn 10 put in upgrading the Forza 1 models (and to a lesser extent, the Forza 2 models) over the years to the current graphical standard, completely ignoring (again, I'll add) that PD did absolutely nothing at all for their older and more dated GT3 (in particular) and GT4 models. All I did was point out the blatant double standard of his criticism. Nothing more. Nothing less.

You're misrepresenting what I said. I think perhaps I should report you.

Anyway, what I criticize is this:

People who complain that PD couldn't produce around 500 Premium cars and to hell with the Standards, because T10 did it in Forza 3. No, T10 did not. They imported around 330 models from FM2, of which 230 some odd were imported from FM1. They even imported most of the flaws and bugs, and did absolutely nothing at all to fix them. Also, these car models were farmed out to shops all over to make some of them. As such, they have issues with the Forza engine and livery editor that are uneven between models. Since T10 were not making hundreds of car and track models themselves, why couldn't they have taken some time to fix what was broke over the course of five years? So my beef is with the knotheads who insist that Polyphony were too lazy to make a decent number of Premiums, and added in the Standards because they couldn't care less. And with T10 for not bothering to fix their broken models in five years' time because clearly they weren't toiling away at modeling content themselves by their own admission.

Please do get your facts straight before you get all huffy about it.

I'm also very critical of people who give a free pass to anything Turn 10 does, because there very definitely are double standards when it comes to Gran Turismo. And very critical of those who say that the Standard cars shouldn't have been included at all. They can certainly ignore them except for the darn few races that only a Standard car is available. Do them, get them out of the way, and then race nothing but Prems to their heart's content. Like I did with the truck races. I don't rag incessantly that truck racing or drifting are in Gran Turismo because I don't like them, I ignore them.

And on GT PSP, I'm unaware of very many game companies at all which are competent in producing racing games on SONY platforms. Maybe Codemasters? Or how about the Jak Racing team in Naughty Dog?

You are assuming a great deal about this issue, that SONY would want anyone else to produce a flagship Gran Turismo title for the PSP, or that Kaz would relinquish his right to produce Gran Turismo to another. And stating it as fact, in my opinion.

It would be a different matter if there were 10 great racing game developers on PS2 and PSP, but even Codemasters have demonstrated that they gave up on producing a game with accurate physics for some time now. F1 2010 or Grid 3 may be the turning point, but there's a lot of contention over that matter.

Now, if you can think of an awesome racing developer on PSP who you think SONY would trust with GT Mobile, I'm all eyes, Mr Reporter.

 

[Luminis]

I'm also very critical of people who give a free pass to anything Turn 10 PD does

See, it makes sence this way around as well, if you're asking me. As that's what it's boiling down to:
Neither developer should get free passes. However, one of them does on a regular basis.

 

[Tornado]

You're misrepresenting what I said. I think perhaps I should report you.

Not a particularly clever turnaround when you have been called out on this exact issue probably dozens of times at this point.

People who complain that PD couldn't produce around 500 Premium cars and to hell with the Standards, because T10 did it in Forza 3. No, T10 did not. They imported around 330 models from FM2, of which 230 some odd were imported from FM1.

So that is, what, 250 or so cars built from scratch during the period of time that GT5 was in development? I honestly don't know what the car count for Forza 3 is, nor do I know what it is when you subtract the Forza 1 cars.

They even imported most of the flaws and bugs, and did absolutely nothing at all to fix them.

You mean like the 4000 pound Volvo 240 carried over across three games so far without being touched? Despite being an incredibly obvious bug to everyone with half a brain, and being something that would take 3 seconds to correct? You mean flaws and bugs like that?

Also, these car models were farmed out to shops all over to make some of them. As such, they have issues with the Forza engine and livery editor that are uneven between models.

Like how the Standard cars have obvious issues with the GT5 physics engine? How is that Audi R10 5.2 with the V8 engine, by the way? The only-recently fixed Acura NSX? Or the Alfa Romeo Brera that weighs over 200 pounds more than in real life? Those are all Premium, as well, so they should supposedly be just short of perfect.

Since T10 were not making hundreds of car and track models themselves, why couldn't they have taken some time to fix what was broke over the course of five years?

In the 6 years since GT4 came out, you think someone at PD could have sat down and changed the Shelby Series One to have the proper power ratings?

So my beef is with the knotheads who insist that Polyphony were too lazy to make a decent number of Premiums, and added in the Standards because they couldn't care less.

And my beef is with those who insist that PD actually did care in comparison to Turn 10, when it is pretty clear that they only really gave a crap about 20% of the game's content. I've played the game for over a month and a half now, and with each passing day I shudder more and more at the possibility that PD probably couldn't have cared less.

And with T10 for not bothering to fix their broken models in five years' time because clearly they weren't toiling away at modeling content themselves by their own admission.

CLK-DTM. Nomad Diablo. PT Cruiser. 10-year-old assets that suffered from modeling and/or artwork errors since day one, with nothing ever done to them. I'm not, never have and never will say that Turn 10 are experts in the department of consistency or quality control. But PD sure as hell aren't any better in that department.

I'm also very critical of people who give a free pass to anything Turn 10 does, because there very definitely are double standards when it comes to Gran Turismo.

Yes. Because that is the more common occurrence on a Gran Turismo fan site.

You are assuming a great deal about this issue, that SONY would want anyone else to produce a flagship Gran Turismo title for the PSP, or that Kaz would relinquish his right to produce Gran Turismo to another. And stating it as fact, in my opinion.

I'm not the one who runs around claiming that PD was forced by big bad Sony to stop production of a $60 million system-selling killer app to shove out what essentially amounts to a decontented, mediocre port of GT4 for the launch of a system that was dead in the water before it even came out.
Basically, I have the luxury of being able to make assumptions based on precedent and logical thought when we have official statements that support my statements, because I'm not the one making definitive statements about the subject in the first place.

Now, if you can think of an awesome racing developer on PSP who you think SONY would trust with GT Mobile, I'm all eyes, Mr Reporter.

It doesn't take a long history of racing pedigree to port a bunch of PS2 assets to the PSP, and based on how meh the final product ended up being anyways it certainly didn't seem to help any.

 

[Electric_Wizard]

You got me wrong, look:

I like GT5 because online races are alot of fun. But almost every new feature in this game is very limited.

- Rain/Night only on a few limited circuits

- Headtracking only arcade mode. Why Pd, why. Im sure that there are alot of people out there, who buyed themselve this stupid ps eye just for this game.

- RM only for 17-19 cars

- Mechanical damage online only

- optical damage is very limited, especially on standards

- NASCAR, only 1 event. No Daytona 500?

- New tracks. Yeah its cool, but why are those guy using Madrid, Rome, Cape Ring, Trial Mountain, Grand Valley and Deep Forrest for most races in a-spec. What happend to the beautiful London track? Is there any a-spec event in London? I loved that track... It made alot of fun with a F2007 in GT5P.

- Ferrari F1 cars. Practise&Online only

- Cockpit view. Only for premium

IMO a game that someone likes doesn`t make it immediatly a great game (With "great game" I mean one of those few games you can play anytime and anywhere because they are just pure magic). A game like Shadow of the Collossus is great and epic, GT4 was great for its time (eventhough its outdated like a old Ferrari F40, but its still classic), but I can`t really call GT5 great...

Ah, ok, I misundestood you. Still, I think GT5 is a great game, but it's my opinion in the end. I respect yours.
Only a thing: London is in game.