Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Devedander]

Physics engine? Yes.

Physics? Not as detailed. Standards just don't get so many attributes like F458, SLS AMG, Gallardo and many newer cars that were hand tailored directly for new physics engine during GT5 development. You can actually feel it when you aren't dead.

I got thinking about this a ways back....

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4052631#post4052631

 

[Akira AC]

I got thinking about this a ways back....

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4052631#post4052631

Disagree,initially that was my though but since there is versions of the same car in standard and premium form you can compare,(in example the eunos and the miata or the F12007 GTPSP and the F12007 GT5p),these cars,no matter which version is they drives exactly the same,and regarding to the US vs EU versions of the car the gravity centrer seems to be different(slightly not very dramatic but is noticeable).

I did the test,exactly the same settings and everything was the same,but I wonder if this will affect the "premiumnazation" of all of this cars,that I'm starting to guess that it will be a $$$$ DLC,I just hope an update like spec III,but that probably will not happen.

 

[sanmusa]

I vote for DLC... We need a DLC with SAAB cars (I love SAABs and I am reaaaaally disappointed for the lack of ANY SAABs at all on GT5!!), and one of my favorite Japanese hot hatches, the Nissan Pulsar GTi-R (it was on GT and GT2 if I am not wrong).

 

[RedBaron]

Disagree,initially that was my though but since there is versions of the same car in standard and premium form you can compare,(in example the eunos and the miata or the F12007 GTPSP and the F12007 GT5p),these cars,no matter which version is they drives exactly the same,and regarding to the US vs EU versions of the car the gravity centrer seems to be different(slightly not very dramatic but is noticeable).

I did the test,exactly the same settings and everything was the same,but I wonder if this will affect the "premiumnazation" of all of this cars,that I'm starting to guess that it will be a $$$$ DLC,I just hope an update like spec III,but that probably will not happen.

They would be band of fools if they haven't used GT5 physics engine variables for cars that have their premium counterpart. But other ones feel like GT3 or something. Very evident.

 

[Pierced Lead]

An example would be appreciated

 

[Bogie 19th]

Disagree,initially that was my though but since there is versions of the same car in standard and premium form you can compare,(in example the eunos and the miata or the F12007 GTPSP and the F12007 GT5p),these cars,no matter which version is they drives exactly the same,and regarding to the US vs EU versions of the car the gravity centrer seems to be different(slightly not very dramatic but is noticeable).

I did the test,exactly the same settings and everything was the same,but I wonder if this will affect the "premiumnazation" of all of this cars,that I'm starting to guess that it will be a $$$$ DLC,I just hope an update like spec III,but that probably will not happen.

Have to disagree, many of us have found them quite different actually.

 

[shirakawaa]

An example would be appreciated

Try rolling over a Standard kei car such as a Honda Life Step Van or a Daihatsu Move or a Suzuki Wagon R RR.
You will see they will behave very weirdly when you'll manage to lift one of their sides up to what would normally would seem the tipping point for such top heavy cars.

 

[Pierced Lead]

I could swear I rolled over the Mitsubishi Pajero Rally car in a custom track. But after trying it with a Avantime it did seem hard, but it's already difficult to do so with premiums too.

There is a video of a standard Audi SUV being rolled over with suspension changes around the Topgear track, though.

 

[shirakawaa]

I do not dispute that is possible to roll over those cars. Even I managed to roll over my Daihatsu Move SR-XX in GT5 after many tries (with racing tires and maximum suspension ride height). However my impression is that especially with certain cars (light and small japanese cars) it's way harder than it should be in real life. It doesn't take much effort to roll over a car or even just lift up one side on a top heavy car, especially if the handbrake is used. The Suzuki MR Wagon in my avatar is a low speed example of that (it's not a GT5 in-game screenshot!).

 

[Tenacious D]

The standard cars picture was pointed at as a reference for "here's what standard cars look like, judge for yourself how bad they are" and it's like saying "here's my eharmony page, judge for yourself how good I look".

The problem though is that those of us who don't hold all Standards in disdain have found that very few of them have ugly issues like the examples floating around the net and these boards. You have to really hunt for them. Meanwhile, the Standard photo thread is filling up with hundreds, soon thousands of images that have them looking near Premium quality. And we weren't sure we would get that, so this is a great surprise.

But those that DO disdain all Standards like Bogie won't hear any of it. So... oh well.

I've been racing almost nothing but Standards, and amazed at how incredible they look alongside Premiums in replays. Eventually when I get over how cool racing is and have a few hundred cars collected, I'll start taking pics of my own. I'm level 27 now, and I have a garage with about 300 rides in it, minus some dupes because I have to buy them for those silly paint chips, so I should end up with a few thousand pics to chose from like I did in GT4.

 

[EVILWAYS1102]

I rolled my Ford Lightning and it seemed to act the same as my premium Evo when I rolled that one too

 

[Bogie 19th]

I rolled the AMG in the Specialty races once. Took me about 50 tries, but I eventually got. I have probably tried 50+ more times to flip a car, and no luck. I usually can't even get them to show a lick of damage

 

[EVILWAYS1102]

I rolled the AMG in the Specialty races once. Took me about 50 tries, but I eventually got. I have probably tried 50+ more times to flip a car, and no luck. I usually can't even get them to show a lick of damage

Yeah I have to admit I thought the damage was going to be a lot more intense,but I have seen quite a bit. My B-spec driver always bangs up my Gallardo on Rome I saw some Standard AI cars get dented up in the Muscle car races too. Both times I rolled I wasn't trying to

 

[Bogie 19th]

Yeah I have to admit I thought the damage was going to be a lot more intense,but I have seen quite a bit. My B-spec driver always bangs up my Gallardo on Rome I saw some Standard AI cars get dented up in the Muscle car races too. Both times I rolled I wasn't trying to

You are indeed lucky. I would say I never see any damage for 99% of the races I am in

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Bogie - take one of the WRC machines out for a spin in Arcade Mode. They seem to have the most damage capability, and can tear doors off (and probably bonnets/hoods and boots/trunk-lids, if you wail on them for long enough). I grabbed the related trophy by doing that. As for rolling over; you can always try Trial Mountain's last kink. I found another effective way, though it works with non-racing cars a bit easier; take a fast car to a track with a pit lane separated by the track by only a narrow wall. Head towards the dividing wall as fast as you can and hit the handbrake at the right time to swing the car sideways. Done correctly, you'll nail the barrier with the side of your car, flipping it pretty severely. I've done it with a Veyron at Indy, and a stock Clio V6 at a Mt. Aso created track.

RE Standards vs Premiums; with the game limiting how close pictures can be taken, it really should come as a surprise to nobody that if one were to take two pictures of two different cars, and had to be forced to take them far enough away, the level of detail difference between the two would be minimized. This is not news.

For Photomoders, Standards require a thought-out approach, to hide certain things. This Prowler, for example:



Can look great... if you zoom a lot further out than what this person did. I've actually been trying to nail down some good shots of my Plum Crazy one. On the other hand, Premiums...



...don't really require that protective invisible barrier . It's also worth re-stating; not all Standards are created equal. For every Caterham Fireblade or Toyota 7, or Audi R8 LMS, there's a Hommell or Pescarolo. It's just a matter of working within the limitations.

 

[Pierced Lead]

The problem though is that those of us who don't hold all Standards in disdain have found that very few of them have ugly issues like the examples floating around the net and these boards. You have to really hunt for them. Meanwhile, the Standard photo thread is filling up with hundreds, soon thousands of images that have them looking near Premium quality. And we weren't sure we would get that, so this is a great surprise.

Close to premium quality? Eh, no
But good looking, yes.

 

[Lucas]

RE Standards vs Premiums; with the game limiting how close pictures can be taken, it really should come as a surprise to nobody that if one were to take two pictures of two different cars, and had to be forced to take them far enough away, the level of detail difference between the two would be minimized. This is not news.

This man speaks the truth. 👍

Close to premium quality? Eh, no
But good looking, yes.

I agree. Though not every standard is good looking, to me.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Some standards look good from a distance, or photoshopped to heck in the photomode.

 

[diegorborges]

Last night I've rolled the Audi LeMans...

 

[shirakawaa]

Last night I've rolled the Audi LeMans...

Try with a Suzuki Wagon R RR or a Daihatsu Move (or any other similar car) and you'll understand what I mean.

 

[yogaflame]

Since Forza 4 will come out next year. Gt5 needs to be competitive by adding new cars and converting other cars to premium. This news about updates made me excited, and I'm hopeful it will make us all happy.

My wishlist of cars to be converted to Premium:

1. Lamborghini Countach
2. Bugatti Veyron.
3. Bentley
4. Jey Lenon Tank car
5. RUF
6. Rolls Royce

Cars I wish to be added soon and in premium. It is okay if they add it one at a time:

1. Honda HSV ( which was first promise to be part of Gt5)
2. Lamborghini Reventon - the most expensive Lamborghini ever
3. 2011 Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Super sports
4. Koenigsegg CCX
5. Ariel Atom
6. Ultima GTR
7. SSC Aero - 2nd fastest car ever

8. And our dream car to be finally added to GT series the "Porsche"

 

[LaBounti]

PD doesn't compete, their lead producer and designer only makes a game in his vision. Not that of the gamers who buy the game. It seems EA is using GT as an example of how not to make a racing game. GT5 lacks many fundamental features found in almost every modern racing game. All PD needs is a Foreign Producer who speaks English and GT5 could be everything everyone wants. not just the vision of one man.

EA
Turn 10
Codemasters all know how to please their fanbase.

GT's fanbase seems divided at the moment.

 

[Tenacious D]

Kazunori knows how to make a great racing game. He's made four of them, and his fifth with all its faults is pretty amazing. And apparently he knows full well that GT5 wasn't finished. I know of no other producer who says, "While we work on the sequel, we're going to be constantly improving this one."

I don't think Kaz needs to look elsewhere for another example of what to do, all he should do is look to GT4. I don't think Forza is an example of a good game design either. This is where experience points rule by the way, and it doesn't work much better there. The only good things I see Forza bringing to the table are the well implemented and very powerful Livery Editor, though I prefer the "no sides" version Eutechnyx came up with. And the directly trainable Drivatar from Forza 1. And for physics, while you could mention whatever PC sim, I think they made a heck of a good physics build in their Time Trial demo. It just needed some tweaking.

I'll say what I said before. I'd much rather be playing GT5 as it is now than waiting for GT5 Ultimate, whenever that would exist, or GT6. And on the topic of Standards, you can race them or you can just use them enough to get through the handful of races you need them in and then never look at them again. For those of you who can't stand them or think they have no place in GT5, problem solved. I prefer 1000 cars to 200. We can both be happy.

I would add that if GT5 really was all that bad, we wouldn't have around 1000 members and 2500 plus visitors every day. Of course, if it was all that good, we probably wouldn't either...

Oh, and while I'll give Turn 10 the time of day, I gave up on EA and Codies yearrs ago and haven't looked back.

 

[Akira AC]

PD doesn't compete, their lead producer and designer only makes a game in his vision. Not that of the gamers who buy the game. It seems EA is using GT as an example of how not to make a racing game. GT5 lacks many fundamental features found in almost every modern racing game. All PD needs is a Foreign Producer who speaks English and GT5 could be everything everyone wants. not just the vision of one man.

EA
Turn 10
Codemasters all know how to please their fanbase.

GT's fanbase seems divided at the moment.

Maybe please the fan base is not always the right course of action, because some of the features that were included in this game are shown is very few other games,implement the same boring stuff to the game will hurt it badly,only two things is what GT series really needs and that is more content,something that other companies charge you + and are nowhere near as GT5 amount of content(FM3 seems to have more content but if you are critical about it you find only 40 variations of 12 scenarios and that is pretty poor compared to GT5 amount of content,besides of the fact that you have to pay for new cars,about $20 in DLC of buy a new FM3 ).

Is just a matter of what people like the most,in MY opinion I think that GT5 is better because it doesn't feature any silliness like livery editor(personally is a pointless waste of your time,which you can use actually playing the game),while other games like NFS and Dirt focus more on be the sales toy of big companies(example of this is the rewind function that they implement to serious games that makes them too arcadish and boring),and that is my complain about it because GT series are not meant to be a sales breaker,it just is a game develop in a crafted plan,which not include silly stuff and just try to stay original against its competitors.

An introduction of a foreign producer will most likely hurt the game badly,if they do what people say will make the game as average as it gets,while if they keep it original it will be better,example of this is the latest instilment of Silent hill series and Resident evil series,which lost their identity thanks to "foreign producers".

I will mention the Ace Combat series which was a victims of this practice by introducing a "foreign producer",all PS2 instalments of the game were almost perfect(storyline wise and gameplay wise),but when they shift into 360 platform they introduced a "foreign producer" that was suppose to make the game even better,this of course was not to be and it got worse with ACX2 JA and the trailers of AC:AH.

Its better a game with creativity than a "normal" game that will be stuck with its partners(games like NFS-Pro street,grid,NFS undercover,etc...).

 

[LaBounti]

See, the two posters above can see past GT5's design flaws just I do. I love GT5 and for me its the best I've played despite the xp system and that one dominate AI car..

I just keep an open mind as well as provide my opinions. I use premium cars maybe 5% of the time... and when I do use them i use bumper cam.

 

[Devedander]

Kazunori knows how to make a great racing game. He's made four of them, and his fifth with all its faults is pretty amazing. And apparently he knows full well that GT5 wasn't finished. I know of no other producer who says, "While we work on the sequel, we're going to be constantly improving this one."

These guys have taken it a step further... and honestly I appreciate the humbleness in the message rather than the constant air of confidence and almost uncarring certainty that it's all good and fine that we have gotten from PD in many cases:

I'll say what I said before. I'd much rather be playing GT5 as it is now than waiting for GT5 Ultimate, whenever that would exist, or GT6.

And as I always say when this false dichotomy comes up, I would rather be playing a fully finished and polished GT5 right now than what we have and it's not unreasonable to have expected that all things considered.

And on the topic of Standards, you can race them or you can just use them enough to get through the handful of races you need them in and then never look at them again. For those of you who can't stand them or think they have no place in GT5, problem solved.

This has never been a valid response to the standards/premiums situation.

As for only using them enough to get through the career... due to the Cr system and economy and the fact many price cars are standard, I have had to choose between a mostly standard career experience or a LOT of grinding and bspecing to get enough Cr to do it with more premiums.

That's hardly a solution and in no way makes the advice "just use them as much as you have to to get through career mode" valid or solid.

It also in no way addresses the fact that even in non career modes like online and 2p battle I have to use standard if the car I want to drive is the 80% which is standard.

I prefer 1000 cars to 200. We can both be happy.

1: You can be happy.

2: False dichotomy again. I prefer 1000 premiums to 200 premiums. I also prefer 500 premiums and no stanards to 200 premiums and 800 standards.

If you have to revert to a logical falacy in your arguemtn, it's not a solid argument.

I would add that if GT5 really was all that bad, we wouldn't have around 1000 members and 2500 plus visitors every day. Of course, if it was all that good, we probably wouldn't either...

I think the GT name has enough of a following we would have roughly 3000 visitors at any given time just based on the history and crowd it draws. Remember a fanbase takes a few iterations of poor results to shed... Sonic fans only recently started thinning out despite there being quite a few bad Sonic games.

I think if GT didn't have all the problems we would still be seeing the number of average users climbing on a day over day basis.

 

[Griffith500]

I'm interested in learning more about these differences between the physics of Standard and Premium cars. I haven't tried rolling a car yet, but I shall give it a go for kicks. Then again, I've always been amazed at how far a car can tip before rolling over (i.e. I under-estimated how low their centres of gravity actually are.)

Basically, I've not come across any glaring issues with physics on Standard cars (specifically), aside from lightweight cars having too much inertia in the drivetrain, so they are artificially sluggish and don't rev very freely (like in GT1!) - this seems like a carry-over from GT4. Other things include electronic bits and bobs, e.g. some versions of the RUF CTR2 had the same four-wheel drive layout as the 993 Turbo, so an electronically controlled centre differential that had individually controllable clutch plates (just like in the 959) to distribute torque to and from the front and rear wheels. Now, in the game, a good portion of the CTR2's 520 bhp tends to fall out of the inside front tyre in a cloud of smoke, something I doubt its real-life drivetrain would allow (irrespective of the specific system used.) This raises questions about the Skylines, too, and many other cars (Standard or Premium) that use electro-gizmos to do weird things to the handling (does the Type-V S2000 really have speed-dependent steering?)

If there does seem to be a gulf between the Standards and Premiums in this respect, I've not noticed it save for these isolated examples. I've certainly had a lot of fun driving the Standard cars so far.
Of course, I've driven somewhere around 50-60 cars in GT5 all told, so I'm interested in other peoples' experiences.

 

[CarreraGT]

Never thought I'd say it but PD looks to have some serious competition in Forza 4. Even though i don't think the physics will ever compare, PD need to step up and in terms of content because the car models in the FM4 trailer look pretty amazing and the tuning/customization options will no doubt blow GT5 out of the water.

Bugatti Veyron anyone? And my all time favourite Gran Turismo car, the Team Oreca Viper. The list goes on...

 

[Spade13]

I love the Gran Turismo franchise! As a gamer and a car fanatic, I think it's one of the best gaming franchises out there, but I'm just baffled on how they could think they could get away with importing all the cars from GT4, then just adding 200 new cars and keep bragging that we have 1000 cars when 80% of them aren't even complete!

Forza 2 was released in 2007 with almost 340 cars and none of them had cockpit view! 2 YEARS later they come out with Forza 3 which has 400 cars ALL with Cockpit view and all have much improved graphics! See if Turn Ten could add cockpit view to 340 cars in 2 years, then why couldn't Polophony do the same in 6 years? I don't even care if the quality for Standard Car cockpit views aren't that great! They should have just offered something!

Now what's even worse is that they made a VW Van and some crappy old Fiat as a premium car, but don't make cars like Bugatti Veyron as a Premium car! They really need to start patching the game offering more Premium Cars.

 

[GT_Prologue5]

I really don't worry about Standards. If they could model them to buff out the roughness, I'd be fine. The only true time I need interior view is during endurances (it gives me something to mess with to cope with the long length.)

It's all opinion though, and as the interview says, there were a lot of historic cars that needed to be Premium. Although I could see the Furai going Premium.

See if Turn Ten could add cockpit view to 340 cars in 2 years, then why couldn't Polophony do the same in 6 years?

Because they also worked on GT:HD, GTPSP, and GT5rologue. That's not 6 years, shorten it down to 3.