Zeta News 2.0: New VF Commodore and Chevrolet SS

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What is the Challenger on?

That'll be running on a modified (shortened, updated) version of the LX chassis already found beneath the Charger and the 300C.

Would the Impala be running the Zeta or was that the possibility of a new RWD chassis from GM?

The Impala was set to debut on the Zeta chassis, the same as the Pontiac G8. The rumor was that the Impala may be on the larger version of Zeta that underpins the Holden Statesman, but nothing came of it.

As of now, its safe to assume that the Impala will find its way onto a larger version of the Epsilon II chassis, what will underpin the Buick LaCrosse for the 2010 model year. The question likely becomes how easy it will be to differentiate the Malibu from the Impala, given that they are rather close in size, and will likely run the same engine options as well.
 
Thank you the US Goverment for ruining our lives by dictating what auto companies produce. Thanks for taking some fun away from the people.
 
Its not just the feds, its also the automakers deciding that they don't want to spend the money to make these cars viable with otherwise "green" technologies. Stick a diesel V6 in the car and I'm sure it would easily creep north of 30 MPG on a regular basis. Offer up enough other efficent options below the big cars, and that will offset it as well.

GM knows that they can do better, but no one in the company apparently wants to do it. Offer a gas V6 and V8, diesel V6, and a hybrid V6 in the cars and they could meet the standards... Probably. But, alas, that costs extra money...
 
Either way, what ever happend to car companies making "fun" cars? If I see nothing but diesel hatches and boring saloons I'm going to croak. Even if done in a limited production the GTO needs to be brought back. As well as the Firebird/Trans-Am. If GM kills off the TA forever I will NEVER buy another GM product ever again--old or new.
 
I am mostly dissapointed about the Monaro, although I do look forward to seeing what they do with the Torana, hopefully it has shed a fair bit of weight off the VE and with a couple of turbochargers bolted to the V6....... :D

I am pretty sure the Camaro will be sold here as a Camaro, selling it as a Monaro is just wrong.
 
-> ...
The question likely becomes how easy it will be to differentiate the Malibu from the Impala, given that they are rather close in size, and will likely run the same engine options as well.
^ Yea, that will be an easy answer, it will be a Buick Century/Regal all over again:

Century
2003.buick.century.21857-396x249.jpg


Regal
00buickregal.jpg


:indiff:

JCE
Either way, what ever happend to car companies making "fun" cars? If I see nothing but diesel hatches and boring saloons I'm going to croak. Even if done in a limited production the GTO needs to be brought back. As well as the Firebird/Trans-Am. If GM kills off the TA forever I will NEVER buy another GM product ever again--old or new.
^ I think the US market aims to be a communist to petrol-heads like us. :indiff:

-> I hate boring sedans and coupes, they serve no purpose in life. By the way, I like diesel hatches! :dopey:

-> The G8 wagon was the closest GM vehicle I would consider as one of my next cars to buy, but GM screwed up, there goes another customer. :grumpy:

-> Too bad, the next GM vehicle in line would cost USD$48K (Sierra 3500HD) and USD$100K (C6 ZR1). :indiff:

I am pretty sure the Camaro will be sold here as a Camaro, selling it as a Monaro is just wrong.
^ And stupid as I might add. But if the Monaro comes back, it would never touch any US soil. Only the Mid-East (Lumina coupe), Aussies (Monaro), and the Brits (VXR550? coupe) will have all the fun. :indiff:

The best looking 2-door Zeta in my book
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^ If were talking about 2-door Zeta's, I'd take this instead and I don't care if its a mule, at least I could call it a true Holden Monaro. You can keep your Camaro's. :yuck:

~> All the drooling for the G8 wagon for nothing. :indiff:
 
^ I think the US market aims to be a communist to petrol-heads like us. :indiff:

Why are they picking on the auto industry so much? Couldn't they get where they are trying to go by picking on the electric producers? It seems like they are doing it all to get the vote of tree-hugging Prius-drivers on the West Coast, which already carries all of the Democrat votes nationwide.

-> I hate boring sedans and coupes, they serve no purpose in life. By the way, I like diesel hatches! :dopey:

I would probably be the happiest kid alive if the world went to all sedans, estates, hatches and coupes. No doubt companies would put a significant sum into performance machines. They even make sporty trucks.

-> The G8 wagon was the closest GM vehicle I would consider as one of my next cars to buy, but GM screwed up, there goes another customer. :grumpy:

I was actually going to recommend it for our next family car. Looks like the only chance of my family buying a GM will be if dad goes out and buys the official car of the mid-life crisis. Even then I would first see an Audi or BMW.

^ And stupid as I might add. But if the Monaro comes back, it would never touch any US soil. Only the Mid-East (Lumina coupe), Aussies (Monaro), and the Brits (VXR550? coupe) will have all the fun. :indiff:

^ If were talking about 2-door Zeta's, I'd take this instead and I don't care if its a mule, at least I could call it a true Holden Monaro. You can keep your Camaro's. :yuck:

The GTO didn't seem to sell all that well. I don't see them very often, probably even less than Corvettes. GM probably considers the Camaro to be a reasonable successor, and the market just isn't bit enough for them to be running two of the same sports car. I'll have to say that it will probably end being a good decision in the end, as sad as it is.
 
JCE
If GM kills off the TA forever I will NEVER buy another GM product ever again--old or new.

We'll see where the money goes. If enough Pontiac fans DEMAND that there should be a Firebird, they could make one. The thing is, people bitch and complain about GM selling re-badges over and over again, and yet here comes another... And its magically okay because its a Firebird?

Personally speaking, I find the Firebird redundant. Given that it will just be a Camaro with a different grille, tail lights, and maybe a bit more leather inside... Whats the point? Oh yeah, the hoodscoops, I forgot.

If they go about making it, more power to 'em, and if they don't, I could honestly care less. They should have had a GTO, but clearly, there just isn't enough of a reason to do it anymore...

===

Viper
I am mostly dissapointed about the Monaro, although I do look forward to seeing what they do with the Torana, hopefully it has shed a fair bit of weight off the VE and with a couple of turbochargers bolted to the V6.......

I hear ya on that one. Get the weight down to 3300-3500 lbs, but there is one difference; I want mine sold as a Chevy, called the Nova, offering a SS package with a 400 BHP small-block...

===

TVB
-> The G8 wagon was the closest GM vehicle I would consider as one of my next cars to buy, but GM screwed up, there goes another customer.

You've got to look at it in something bigger than just yourself. The Dodge Magnum essentially failed in the market, and the Ford Taurus X is essentially doing the same as well. There wouldn't have been any money to make on the car, and GM decided it wasn't worth it (no, selling 1500 a year isn't worth it). Sorry, I know... I wanted one too, but I can understand their thinking...

TVB
-> Too bad, the next GM vehicle in line would cost USD$48K (Sierra 3500HD) and USD$100K (C6 ZR1).

If it makes you feel any better they're supposed to be doing more wagon versions of the Epsilon II cars come 2010. The Saab (9-3) Turbo X is still bad-ass, but I don't know if they plan to sell it as a wagon or not...

===

Philly
The GTO didn't seem to sell all that well. I don't see them very often, probably even less than Corvettes. GM probably considers the Camaro to be a reasonable successor, and the market just isn't bit enough for them to be running two of the same sports car. I'll have to say that it will probably end being a good decision in the end, as sad as it is.

Unfortunately, the GTO didn't sell well, and the gamble didn't pay off for GM. Although it certainly opened up the doors for Holden to become the global engineering arm for GM, the Feds have done a great job of cranking that importance down here in the US. The Camaro should be roughly the same size as the GTO, and it will certainly have just as much sporting potential, albeit presumably for a cheaper price. It pains me to not have a GTO, again, but I can see where GM is coming from, and the Camaro should be enough to keep *most folks* happy until the Alpha cars show up after the close of the decade...
 
The thing is, people bitch and complain about GM selling re-badges over and over again, and yet here comes another... And its magically okay because its a Firebird?
The difference was that those two didn't steal sales from each other anywhere near as much as 90% of the other cars General Motors sold did.
 
We'll see where the money goes. If enough Pontiac fans DEMAND that there should be a Firebird, they could make one. The thing is, people bitch and complain about GM selling re-badges over and over again, and yet here comes another... And its magically okay because its a Firebird?

Yes.

Personally speaking, I find the Firebird redundant. Given that it will just be a Camaro with a different grille, tail lights, and maybe a bit more leather inside... Whats the point? Oh yeah, the hoodscoops, I forgot.

:ouch: Dude, ... you lost points with me on that one. The Firebird (and Trans-Am) have always been better than the Camaro--always. Looks, better looking interiors, more variety through the model range, and a more "muscular" feel about it. The Camaro never saw a GTA model, the Camaro hasn't always been good looking (*see 2nd gen), and most importantly COOL guys drive Trans-Ams--posers drive Camaro Z28s.

The difference was that those two didn't steal sales from each other anywhere near as much as 90% of the other cars General Motors sold did.

+1
 
JCE
:ouch: Dude, ... you lost points with me on that one. The Firebird (and Trans-Am) have always been better than the Camaro--always. Looks, better looking interiors, more variety through the model range, and a more "muscular" feel about it. The Camaro never saw a GTA model, the Camaro hasn't always been good looking (*see 2nd gen), and most importantly COOL guys drive Trans-Ams--posers drive Camaro Z28s.

You forget that I grew up in a Chevrolet household and have a '68 Camaro coupe. The Camaro will always be better than the Trans-Am in my book. Yes, there have been numerous occasions where the T/A clearly was better (I won't deny it), but I've just always liked the Camaro more. The Camaro has always looked more clean, more down-to-earth, and certainly performed just as well in nearly every iteration (with the exception of the Turbo T/A). Cool or not, the Camaro has always been and will always be my choice of the F-Body.

Z/28 FTW!
 
I'm going to just politely agree to disagree and move on. We clearly won't agree on this issue. :sly:
 
And I don't have a problem with that. Don't get me wrong, I love the T/A just as much as any other GM fanboi, but just not as much as the Camaro. The economics of the situation, simply put, just isn't feasible to have another carbon-copy car over at Pontiac. They'd have to make it radically different, I think, to make it worthwhile...

If GM decides to do it, more power to 'em. If not, I won't be crying...
 
The Camaro has always looked more clean, more down-to-earth, and certainly performed just as well in nearly every iteration (with the exception of the Turbo T/A).
The 1970s? And early 1990s?
That being said, I'm inclined to more or less agree depending on vintage (1967? Camaro. 1968-1982? Firebird. 1983-1990? Camaro. 1991-1992? Tie. 1993-1997? Camaro. 1998-2002? Firebird).
 
JCE
I'm going to just politely agree to disagree and move on. We clearly won't agree on this issue. :sly:
^ I'm with this guy too for the Monaro, we'll just move on I presume. :)

BT-> Well its really too bad that GM USA will pass on a G8 SW. That very will be on my priority list of Juicy wagons that the USDM market doesn't offer hall of fame:

- M5 Touring
- RS4 Avant
- Evo VIII MR GSR Sport Wagon
- Forester STi
- Holden Commodore SS (aka. Pontiac G8)
- C63 AMG Kombi
- 335i Touring

^ Stupid USDM market and their stupid SUVs/Crossovers. I'm with Clarkson on this one. :indiff:
 
The 1970s? And early 1990s?
That being said, I'm inclined to more or less agree depending on vintage (1967? Camaro. 1968-1982? Firebird. 1983-1990? Camaro. 1991-1992? Tie. 1993-1997? Camaro. 1998-2002? Firebird).

I find that agreeable. They were always really close, one maybe just a hair in front of the other on occasion, but it was never a radical difference (except the Turbo T/A). I always found the T/A to be more about power by comparison to the Z/28's preference towards precision, and that of course may be why I end up liking the Z/28 more. Oh well, they're still both great cars... Almost had a '77 T/A for my first car so many years ago...
 
The 1970s? And early 1990s?
That being said, I'm inclined to more or less agree depending on vintage (1967? Camaro. 1968-1982? Firebird. 1983-1990? Camaro. 1991-1992? Tie. 1993-1997? Camaro. 1998-2002? Firebird).

For me it was more like:

1967 = Camaro
1968 = Firebird
1969-2002 = Trans-Am

:dopey:
 
The way I'd look at it:

1967 -1970: Camaro
1970- 1973: Camaro
1974 -1980: Firebird
1981 -1982: Tied
1983 - 1992: On/Off, tie
1993-1997: Close, but Camaro takes the lead
1998 - 2002: Firebird, esp. the Firehawk and WS6
 
I have a solution for the CAFE crap, make the RWD Impala...

KILL ALL THE STUPID FREAKING SUV'S!

Stupid Americans, a Tahoe is not a status symbol, you don't look cool in a big mini-van/pickup hybrid, and if you're using it to commute to work, you clearly aren't using the space.

I blame the SUV buyers for the death of the RWD Impala, damn them all.
 
I have a solution for the CAFE crap, make the RWD Impala...

KILL ALL THE STUPID FREAKING SUV'S!

Stupid Americans, a Tahoe is not a status symbol, you don't look cool in a big mini-van/pickup hybrid, and if you're using it to commute to work, you clearly aren't using the space.

I blame the SUV buyers for the death of the RWD Impala, damn them all.


Hmmm. That's a way to be respected. Some people actually NEED SUV's. They TOW BOATS. THEY TOW IN GENERAL. THey're not totally useless.
 
*American, unfortunately*

I've gone into great depth in arguments lasting hundreds of pages about the ridiculousness of SUV's, and the tiny, TINY portion of the buyers who actually make full use of them, they don't tow well, don't perform well, don't have that much interior room.

Towing: Pickup
Room: Van/Wagon
Big Engine: Vette, Stang, any number of options here
Neighbor's going "Nice 'Sclade": SUV
 
I have a solution for the CAFE crap, make the RWD Impala...

KILL ALL THE STUPID FREAKING SUV'S!

Stupid Americans, a Tahoe is not a status symbol, you don't look cool in a big mini-van/pickup hybrid, and if you're using it to commute to work, you clearly aren't using the space.

I agree, But this is already happening. Higher gas prices are slowing SUV/Truch sales, forcing companies to make more efficient crossovers to support America's truck addiction. A perfect world to me would involve owners having to get permits to use SUVs but I don't think that is going to happen any time soon.
 
The thing is, the Zeta chassis offers a reasonable alternative to the trucks, but so far GM has been somewhat unwilling to address it in a matter such as that. There are plans on the books, as stated before, for Pontiac to have their own version of the Holden Ute. There are also plans for GMC to get their own version of the Holden Crewman. However, it is very sad indeed that they don't think that we will be getting a Zeta sedan for Chevrolet...

That being said, Wagoner (when talking to Jalponik) said that there were two more Zetas coming to the US, and so far, we know one of them is dead. My guess? I'd bet that Buick or Cadillac runs the platform...
 
*American, unfortunately*

I've gone into great depth in arguments lasting hundreds of pages about the ridiculousness of SUV's, and the tiny, TINY portion of the buyers who actually make full use of them, they don't tow well, don't perform well, don't have that much interior room.

Towing: Pickup
Room: Van/Wagon
Big Engine: Vette, Stang, any number of options here
Neighbor's going "Nice 'Sclade": SUV
^ I completely agree with your statement. Here are the purpose for only one car, my cute wagon:

- Cargo Room
- Passenger Space roomier than an H2
- Not much of a big engine, but kicks butt

:)

I agree, But this is already happening. Higher gas prices are slowing SUV/Truck sales, forcing companies to make more efficient crossovers to support America's truck addiction. A perfect world to me would involve owners having to get permits to use SUVs but I don't think that is going to happen any time soon.
^ Not just SUV's, but crossovers as well that perform less than 20 mpg combined fuel economy. I like that idea.

:grumpy:
 
*American, unfortunately*

I've gone into great depth in arguments lasting hundreds of pages about the ridiculousness of SUV's, and the tiny, TINY portion of the buyers who actually make full use of them, they don't tow well, don't perform well, don't have that much interior room.

Towing: Pickup
Room: Van/Wagon
Big Engine: Vette, Stang, any number of options here
Neighbor's going "Nice 'Sclade": SUV

They don't tow well? Can a K2500 Suburban tow any less than a K2500 Silverado? I'd think the Suburban would do better due to better rigidity. Interior room? Depends on the model. A van or a wagon, they just aren't as durable as an SUV. I wouldn't feel as safe in either. I mean, how safe can a Econoline be? It was last redesigned a bazillion years ago. I'd also like the comfort of most modern SUV's over a van. Those who own SUVs, but complain about the mileage to no end, clearly don't belong in an SUV.


Did I mention the macho factor? As much as I like Minivans, I'd rather be seen in a Truck. Not a crossover, but a real, true-blue truck.
 
^ Not just SUV's, but crossovers as well that perform less than 20 mpg combined fuel economy. I like that idea.

:grumpy:

A crossover with less than 20 mpg combined totally and utterly defeats the point of a crossover.
 
What crossover is doing that bad these days?

I wish they'd get around to building one of these on Zeta:

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The REAL solution to the SUV problem--yes I said PROBLEM.

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holden_ve_sportwagon_2008_009_530.jpg


PROBLEM SOLVED! GM BRING THESE TO THE USA ASAP!
 
I'm too tired to know if that was sarcasm or you were being serious. Long day at work... :crazy:
 
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