Zeta News 2.0: New VF Commodore and Chevrolet SS

[YSSMAN]

it's about 1800kg, which is what new Challenger weights, thanks to being based on charger/magnum/300C/ancient E-class platform. Why can't they simply create individual, lightweight and dynamic platform for sportscars and leave the luxo barge platforms for luxo barges? is it really too much to ask for?

1) It costs a lot of money to develop a single platform
2) Using one platform in a variety of ways makes their money go further
3) Don't worry, the Alpha chassis is coming soon... Which is based on the Zeta platform, just smaller --> See Kappa/Y-body relationship

That being said, the Challenger clocks in at nearly 4200lbs. Under current estimates, GM is trying to get the Camaro around 3800lbs or less (it is significantly smaller than the G8), and it should be achievable. I'd hope for 3600lbs, but I assume thats overly wishful thinking...

As long as its fast, handles well, and gets halfway rational fuel economy (unlike the Challenger), it will be a success and live up to the rather fun nature of the origional car.

 

[YSSMAN]

INVICTA LIVES!​

Buick gave a sneak peak today of its Invicta concept car that will be revealed next month in China at the Beijing Motor Show. The design will be an evolution of the sleek Riviera Concept, and was a collaboration of efforts between various GM Design Studios around the world to create what Buick hopes will be a vehicle with international appeal in its two largest markets - the United States and China. The Invicta, a name which hasn't been used by the Buick brand since 1963, will also feature retro design cues from Buicks of the past. A short press release can be found after the jump, and look for the full details on the Invicta in just over a month when it makes its official debut in Beijing. We'll, of course, have someone there to relay back all the info on this Sino-American hybrid.

So, this is the Zeta-based super-Buick that we've been hearing about for a while now. This rumor dates back to 2005 I believe... From what I understand, this will eventually replace the Lucerne, but probably not until 2010 or so. We'll see, I can't wait for the full unveiling!

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

It has the profile of a coupe, it looks sleek and mean, even in this teaser. This should be awesome. The first real Buick in almost 2 decades.

 

[High-Test]

It has the profile of a coupe, it looks sleek and mean, even in this teaser. This should be awesome. The first real Buick in almost 2 three decades.

Quoted for truth.

Wow.. I like those lines. 👍

EDIT: I'll let the 90's roadmaster slide.

 

[Prosthetic]

Yeah agreed, the last cool Buick was the GN. I wouldn't touch a single one in between then. If they price it right, and doesn't look awkward, disproportioned. It will sure kill the likes of Lexus, Infinity/Nissan (sad for a fanboy ^_^ but the next gen Altima is fugly) and maybe the lower spec 3-series, A4, and C-Class? Or are those CTS territory?
I view them both manufacturers, in the same territory, just that Caddys seem to look a bit better.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Quoted for truth.

Wow.. I like those lines. 👍

EDIT: I'll let the 90's roadmaster slide.

The GNX was only 2 decades ago. Mighty cool car that GNX.

 

[YSSMAN]

The first real Buick in almost 2 decades.

Yes and no. I personally think that the previous Park Avenue was a great car, and certainly, the Lucerne successor is absolutely magnificent. Extremely high quality and refinement at a great price makes it a wonderful luxury car on a budget, but the problem is, the Hyundai Azera is slightly cheaper and only slightly better.

But there is always that awesome Buick Park Avenue in China that we don't have... That car is absolutely EPIC in every way imaginable!

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Park Avenue? Oh, you mean the Holden Statesman/Caprice
Buick have been making good luxury cars, but IIRC they have dropped off the performance radar. A Zeta based car could fix that

 

[Joey D]

Lutz says GM considering 2.0-liter turbo for Camaro
A four-banger in a Camaro! Blasphemy you say? Could be, but what four-pot are we talking about? In this case, the General's car czar Bob Lutz suggests that the new 2010 Camaro due next February could offer the same 2.0 liter direct-injected engine used in the Saturn Sky Redline, Pontiac Solstice GXP and the SS versions of the Chevy HHR and Cobalt. Before dismissing the turbo-four immediately, consider the top-of-the-line engine options the Camaro offered after the last oil-embargo-driven doomsday. In '72, the big block 402 engine offered just 240 horsepower; in '73, the Z28 was equipped with a 245-horse 350 and by '75 the hottest option underhood made only 155 horses. Ouch. The 2.0 being considered for the Camaro punches out 260 horsepower, and based on our time with the engine, you feel each of them as you run up towards the redline. The next step-up will likely be a version of GM's 3.6, as offered in the CTS and G8, also making around 260 horsepower.

Other Camaro tidbits mentioned by Lutz: it will be priced higher than the Mustang, as GM sees the Camaro as a higher-end offering. Specifically, Lutz suggests that the Camaro will feature a much better interior than the 'Stang, along with its inherently better independent rear-suspension arrangement.

Perhaps a bigger question to ponder is how bad will the performance industry be impacted by new fuel efficiency standards along with the ever-tightening emissions regulations. Just so long as carmakers such as GM continue to offer engine options like their 2.0 liter DI four-banger, the performance drop-off won't be nearly as drastic as it was back in the mid-70s. Thank God for that!

Even though there are already idiots on Autoblog screaming about how this is a sacrilege, I actually love this idea. A 260hp turbo four banger? That would be much better then then a n/a V6 option and give the car somewhat decent fuel economy on the lower end. If GM did this I would seriously think about one as a fun car.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

And it would own the newest the competitor, the Genesis Coupe. I can't help but wonder how a Zeta 4cyl would handle and how much it would weigh.
If they do this, the only V6 engine option would have to be the DI HFV6, the normal one just wouldn't sell when the 4pot makes just as much power.
Base model- 260hp DI 4cyl
Next up- 300hp DI V6
Next up- 400hp+ LS3??
SS model- LSA V8????

 

[Joey D]

It would probably just be the 4 cyl and two V8 options, sorta like the Fox bodies back in the 80's.

 

[JCE]

Yum on the Buick and yuck on the four pot in the Camaro. Sorry, I draw the line at 4cyl in a musclecar. Sorry folks, I'll take a Mustang or Genesis coupe.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I would rather they just keep the V6 as a base model too, but maybe have a hybrid model to keep CAFE down.

 

[Joey D]

No a hybrid Camaro would make you look like a giant spanner driving around.

 

[Jim Prower]

Spanner? what sort of Redcoat term is that?

but, yeah, a Hybrid Camaro would be like an LS600h to the Musclecar world.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Well geez, you're not giving our friends a GM many option are you? They have to keep average fuel economy down somehow. Just convert all the smaller models to plug-ins I guess and offer all the goodies in the Camaro

PS- When I get older (and hopefully a decent paying job) I will seriously consider buying a Camaro (probably V6 DI model). The only thing that could change my mind at the moment is the Alpha platform, and if a decent car is spawned from that. (which there probably will be)

 

[YSSMAN]

As the resident Camaro guy...

I personally think its a wonderful idea for GM to go after. Clearly they're going to need some low-cost, high fuel mileage options, and this should offer up a pretty good balance of both. What will be interesting, of course, will be whether or not Ford offers up their 260 BHP EcoBoost I4 in the Mustang as well. I think it will pack in enough punch to make it worthwhile, and if the performance is decent, you won't get completely laughed at with that power plant... Think of the old SVO Mustang, you get the idea...

The engine lineup as I'm seeing it now:

- 2.0L LN1 I4 - 260 BHP: Six-speed manual or six-speed automatic
- 3.6L LLT V6 - 300 BHP: Six-speed manual or six-speed automatic
- 6.0L L76 V8 - 362 BHP: Six-speed manual or six-speed automatic
- 6.2L LS3 V8 - 415 BHP: Six-speed manual or six-speed automatic

The wildcard is the LS7, which would make more sense in the SS model (IMO). Problem is, I think they want to keep the Camaro off the toes of the Corvette completely, so the LS3 seems far more likely.

What will be very interesting will also be the trim packages. I'd hope they restore some dignity to the RS badge and make it available with an optional V8, but of course, the Z/28 and the SS models are the good stuff.

...And for that pesky LS7. That could be the return of the ZL1, maybe. Only in small numbers...

 

[JCE]

As the resident Camaro guy...

*COUGH* As the resident Camaro OWNER I don't think its a good idea. Yes the SVO was cool and all but I'd still take the 5.0.

I personally think its a wonderful idea for GM to go after. Clearly they're going to need some low-cost, high fuel mileage options, and this should offer up a pretty good balance of both. What will be interesting, of course, will be whether or not Ford offers up their 260 BHP EcoBoost I4 in the Mustang as well.

Please don't jinx my Mustangs too!!!!! Musclecars ARE NOT MEANT TO HAVE FOUR CYLINDER ENGINES. They become sport coupes. Let the Solstice and Focus be the four pot turbo coupes please and leave my pony cars out of it.

 

[Joey D]

The Camaro will be lighter and more fuel efficient with the I4 in it. Get with the times, this is no longer the 1970's and we have advanced to the point where I4 are not just for little commuter cars.

 

[JCE]

The Camaro will be lighter and more fuel efficient with the I4 in it. Get with the times, this is no longer the 1970's and we have advanced to the point where I4 are not just for little commuter cars.

WTF, **** that. You automatically assume I hate I4 engines--I do not. I do however hate them in MUSCLECARS. As long as they are around they should be at least trying to be old school. Technology is advanced far enough for larger engine to be fuel efficiant--the auto companies just don't choose to do it minus the C6 Corvette. And for your information musclecars are still around. They didn't die in 1973. If you want a large I4 turbo coupe that's fine, tell GM to make one on the Zeta platform or tell Ford to engineer one for the S197 platform. Leave our Camaro and Mustang alone.

 

[Joey D]

Wow you get pissed off way to easy.

Where did I say that muscle cars are no longer around? They are, it's just they are different now because of different regulations. Cars do not need big V8's to be fast, powerful, or fun now a days. A 260hp turbo I4 is a great idea because it will be fast, it will be lighter, and it will be fun. The 2002 Camaro had a 200hp V6 which wasn't bad, I see no reason to say why a 260hp I4 would be worse.

Old school is what makes the American automotive industry fail. If GM showed that the way of the future is this little turbo engines for sports cars then they would show that they accept changing times and they are using new technology.

And honestly I don't see these muscle cars lasting at all anyways due to climbing fuel prices and the needs and wants of the market changing. I mean why would I want a V8 Camaro that gets crappy fuel mileage when I can get a more efficient Solstice that is fast and fun, not to mention small enough to make city driving/parking easy?

 

[YSSMAN]

Guys like my Dad will be upset, but they'd be buying the Z/28 and SS models anyway, so it doesn't make a lick of difference as long as guys Joey and I's age are willing to buy the turbo four-pot models.

Thing is, I'd still rather have the V6, but thats just me...

In a perfect world we'd do without, but when gas was closing in on $115 a barrel, obviously there are some sacrifices that need to be made.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Wow you get pissed off way to easy.

Where did I say that muscle cars are no longer around? They are, it's just they are different now because of different regulations. Cars do not need big V8's to be fast, powerful, or fun now a days. A 260hp turbo I4 is a great idea because it will be fast, it will be lighter, and it will be fun. The 2002 Camaro had a 200hp V6 which wasn't bad, I see no reason to say why a 260hp I4 would be worse.

Old school is what makes the American automotive industry fail. If GM showed that the way of the future is this little turbo engines for sports cars then they would show that they accept changing times and they are using new technology.

And honestly I don't see these muscle cars lasting at all anyways due to climbing fuel prices and the needs and wants of the market changing. I mean why would I want a V8 Camaro that gets crappy fuel mileage when I can get a more efficient Solstice that is fast and fun, not to mention small enough to make city driving/parking easy?

But thats just it, muscl cars will inevitably one day die. If we put a 4 pot in now then we are killing muscle cars already. Plus the whole term "muscle" means a big and muscular engine in a big and tough car. My Mum drives a 4 pot, I want a V6 or V8 please.

 

[JCE]

Wow you get pissed off way to easy.

Where did I say that muscle cars are no longer around? They are, it's just they are different now because of different regulations. Cars do not need big V8's to be fast, powerful, or fun now a days. A 260hp turbo I4 is a great idea because it will be fast, it will be lighter, and it will be fun.

Speed is only half of the equasion for me. Noise, sorry but an I4 will NEVER sound as good as a V8 in any trim. Hell, even V6's sound better than 90% of the I4's out there.

Why can't there be the one car that is left for the people who don't want an I4? If you want an I4 there are plenty of great cars out there with one. Its simple really. If you want to spend $$$ on gas but have fun doing it more power to you. If you want to be economical and have fun in a different way that's ok to. I still find it insulting for a musclecar to have a tiny engine--that's the 180º opposite of what the musclecar actually means.

 

[YSSMAN]

Idea: Use your right as a member of the free market and DON'T BUY IT

If the turbocharged I4 Camaros don't sell, they'll stop making them. Thing is, I can see them being very popular if they can offer anything close to the performance of the previous V6 Camaro with the fuel economy of a small-ish car. Sure, its not a "muscle car," but the Camaro has never been and never will be one.

...The Camaro and Mustang will always be pony cars...

Don't worry kids, the V8 is still around and it won't be going away anytime soon. They'll probably sell more V8 models than anything else, so you don't have to worry about the loss of an icon or anything.

Its a positive change that would have likely happened either way. Personally speaking, its much better than the rumored "Camaro Two-Mode" that could easily happen, however, I'd certainly be happier with a diesel-powered V6 Camaro than a turbo model.

But hey, I'm just a weird kid from Michigan.

 

[Philly]

But thats just it, muscl cars will inevitably one day die.

V8 muscle cars are still alive and going strong. I see no reason why the quest for big power from a V8 will ever end. Technology will always allow us to squeeze even more power from that 7.0 L V8, and at the same time give us better fuel economy to go with fuel prices. Look at the E63. It gets 500 horsepower from it's big V8 compared to maybe 350 from a Chevy 6.4L while also getting 20 mpg, probably more than double the chevy.

Speed is only half of the equasion for me. Noise, sorry but an I4 will NEVER sound as good as a V8 in any trim. Hell, even V6's sound better than 90% of the I4's out there.

True. My friend's Shelby GT500 Mustang sounded far better than my little 2.0T. But in reality, who is going to complain about a good sounding four-banger? I know my car can't hold a candle to any V8 out there, but by itself, I think it sounds great. Just because it doesn't sounds perfect doesn't mean it can't still be music to your ears.

Why can't there be the one car that is left for the people who don't want an I4? If you want an I4 there are plenty of great cars out there with one. Its simple really. If you want to spend $$$ on gas but have fun doing it more power to you. If you want to be economical and have fun in a different way that's ok to. I still find it insulting for a musclecar to have a tiny engine--that's the 180º opposite of what the musclecar actually means.

Don't want an I4? Get the V8 version. That's what it's there for. Or you could just opt for the Corvette.

A muscle car is an automobile with a high horse power engine, modest weight, capable of producing high levels of acceleration.

That says nothing about requirements of engine size, or fuel efficiency or anything besides performance. If you want to do that with a giant V8, fine. If you want to lop off a few cylinders to keep fuel economy reasonable and add some forced induction to compensate for the loss of power, I see nothing wrong with it. And it still fits the definition.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

V8 muscle cars are still alive and going strong. I see no reason why the quest for big power from a V8 will ever end. Technology will always allow us to squeeze even more power from that 7.0 L V8, and at the same time give us better fuel economy to go with fuel prices. Look at the E63. It gets 500 horsepower from it's big V8 compared to maybe 350 from a Chevy 6.4L while also getting 20 mpg, probably more than double the chevy.

Muscle cars will inevitably die because one day either we will run out of fuel or the environment will get so bad that they just won't be viable. Unless they can make a hdyrogen V8 that sounds just like a petrol V8 they will on day die. (Hopefully not in our life times)

 

[Philly]

Muscle cars will inevitably die because one day either we will run out of fuel or the environment will get so bad that they just won't be viable. Unless they can make a hdyrogen V8 that sounds just like a petrol V8 they will on day die. (Hopefully not in our life times)

I have no doubt that somebody will always find a way to make a bigger, badder version of whatever. There is a demand for it, and as long as there is a strong demand (and a lot of money behind that demand), it will be met. The muscle car may take a different form, but it will be there.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Hmm, an electric car with a battery the size of a power station 💡 Electric musclecar
Hmm, a 6.0L Hyrogen V8 💡 Hydrogn musclecar

 

[Philly]

Sounds about right. Something offering much better performance with few holdbacks. Sounds like a muscle car. And as long as it is using the same fuel as every other car (ie. Hydrogen or batteries), I don't see anybody complaining that it isn't a proper 8.0L petrol V8 muscle car.

Although after thinking about it, the debate about when the muscle car will die seems a little moot. The last real muscle cars around seem to be the Falcon/Commodore down in OZ and the AMG cars over in Germany. It seems that America is making a bid to come back into the game by bringing those cars over here in the guise of the SRT line and the G8. Now we just wait for the Falcon to appear....