1.05 Satisfaction Poll

  • Thread starter LVracerGT
  • 384 comments
  • 19,917 views

Are you satisfied with the 1.05 update?

  • Yes, I'm satisfied

    Votes: 132 17.7%

  • No, I'm not satisfied

    Votes: 497 66.5%

  • I don't care either way

    Votes: 118 15.8%
  • Total voters
    747
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pyrates
As I said before: the sample size is not the same as alpha. If I want 99% confidence I set alpha at 1% (100%-1%). Normally one would use 95% certainty but I explicitly wanted a higher confidence level.

If you are really interested in sample sizes, you can start reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination
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That's actually a lower confidence level. 6% would be a higher confidence level than 5%
 
jimipitbull
That's actually a lower confidence level. 6% would be a higher confidence level than 5%
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No it is not. Do you actually read what I write? The alpha (1% in my case) Is not the confidence level. The confidence level is 99%. Confidence level = 100% - alpha. The lower your alpha the higher your confidence level.

Ok I think I am done here. Just to let you know, you are not making my point any less valid but only show that you are not actually interested in a fact based debate.
 
pyrates
No it is not. Do you actually read what I write? The alpha (1% in my case) Is not the confidence level. The confidence level is 99%. Confidence level = 100% - alpha. The lower your alpha the higher your confidence level.

Ok I think I am done here. Just to let you know, you are not making my point any less valid but only show that you are not actually interested in a fact based debate.
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So you think using less people in a survey gives a higher confidence level?

So using one person in a survey gives the highest confidence level possible?

That is ridiculous.
 
pyrates
Seriously, jimi this is getting ridiculous. Read the link I posted or go and try a sample size calculator. When you have done that, maybe we have a base for further discussion. Right now you just ignore everything I have posted to help you understand.

Last attempt: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-determine-the-minimum-size-needed-for-a-sta.html
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Do you understand that confidence level is completely different than the margin of error for a confidence interval?

Quoted from first paragraph of page you linked - Looking at this the other way around, if you want a smaller margin of error (and doesn’t everyone?), you need a larger sample size.

Smaller margin for error equals higher confidence level.
 
Vagabond
If by that you mean we personally dislike previously banned members repeatedly re-registering so they can stir up trouble again, then I suppose you have a point.
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Are you able to see how many times he has voted in the poll, through his various alias'?
 
pyrates
As I said before: the sample size is not the same as alpha. If I want 99% confidence I set alpha at 1% (100%-1%). Normally one would use 95% certainty but I explicitly wanted a higher confidence level.

If you are really interested in sample sizes, you can start reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination



I set it at 5%.

I realized the GTP sample problem just as I posted it. ;)
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Ah, I see what's going on here. The thing is that stating a confidence level only works for quantifiable matter; there's no factual distiction between satisfied and unsatisfied in terms of numbers. If I look at my own case, I'm partially dissatisfied (say: 40% because there's no new track included in the patch, but I'm also happy with the game content in the first place and the driving physics), am I then satisfied or unsatisfied?

Also, a standard deviation is the 'margin of error' and 5% means a value A can be between 0.95A < A < 1.05A (one sigma). If you talk about the 99% confidence interval, that means 3 sigma, i.e.: you can say for 99% certainty that all of your answers are between 0.85A < A < 1.15A.

Linking the information from the two paragraphs above equates to saying that people are unsatisfied with a confidence (interval!) of 99%, is therefore unfortunately not correct.

What we do know, is that most members on GTPlanet are dissatisfied (apparently). Extrapolating that to the whole community is just a tad more difficult, if not impossible. The only way of getting more accuracy is a larger sample...but that would only do so much. Just remember that statistics is all about manipulation. :)
 
jimipitbull
Are you able to see how many times he has voted in the poll, through his various alias'?
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Unfortunately not.

I am going to throw this in though... With sales being so low at this point, in comparison to GT5, coupled with a general theme of dissatisfaction wherever you find GT6 mentioned, we can surmise that it is not well regarded. GTPlanet site traffic is down on what it was during the same period for GT5 and has dropped further since the release of the 1.05 update. Its not a huge leap of logic to also surmise that this is down to discontent rather than satisfaction. 'Most' people I would guess are simply too apathetic to even have anything to say.

Example - My teenaged son, like all teenagers, is pretty selfish, thoughtless, demanding etc.. and has a habit of asking for things that are unreasonable, stupid, etc... On most occasions I will answer with something suitably dry and sarcastic, and on occasion even engage in debate about the nature of the request and its viability. After multiple rounds, though, my patience expires and in many cases, his questions are greeted with silence and maybe a shrug or a slight frown. Should he assume in such cases that he has my approval because I didn't have anything to say?
 
Firedragon
Ah, I see what's going on here. The thing is that stating a confidence level only works for quantifiable matter; there's no factual distiction between satisfied and unsatisfied in terms of numbers. If I look at my own case, I'm partially dissatisfied (say: 40% because there's no new track included in the patch, but I'm also happy with the game content in the first place and the driving physics), am I then satisfied or unsatisfied?

Also, a standard deviation is the 'margin of error' and 5% means a value A can be between 0.95A < A < 1.05A (one sigma). If you talk about the 99% confidence interval, that means 3 sigma, i.e.: you can say for 99% certainty that all of your answers are between 0.85A < A < 1.15A.

Linking the information from the two paragraphs above equates to saying that people are unsatisfied with a confidence (interval!) of 99%, is therefore unfortunately not correct.

What we do know, is that most members on GTPlanet are dissatisfied (apparently). Extrapolating that to the whole community is just a tad more difficult, if not impossible. The only way of getting more accuracy is a larger sample...but that would only do so much. Just remember that statistics is all about manipulation. :)
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Yes, this is true.
 
Vagabond
Unfortunately not.

I am going to throw this in though... With sales being so low at this point, in comparison to GT5, coupled with a general theme of dissatisfaction wherever you find GT6 mentioned, we can surmise that it is not well regarded. GTPlanet site traffic is down on what it was during the same period for GT5 and has dropped further since the release of the 1.05 update. Its not a huge leap of logic to also surmise that this is down to discontent rather than satisfaction. 'Most' people I would guess are simply too apathetic to even have anything to say.

Example - My teenaged son, like all teenagers, is pretty selfish, thoughtless, demanding etc.. and has a habit of asking for things that are unreasonable, stupid, etc... On most occasions I will answer with something suitably dry and sarcastic, and on occasion even engage in debate about the nature of the request and its viability. After multiple rounds, though, my patience expires and in many cases, his questions are greeted with silence and maybe a shrug or a slight frown. Should he assume in such cases that he has my approval because I didn't have anything to say?
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Not at all. But if you had 431 teenage sons, they could easily gang up on you.
 
jimipitbull
All I can see is 422 people, on a site with 200,000 members, say they are not satisfied.

That's less than 1%. That is a minority.

If the people that replied to the poll were democratically elected by all members as spokesman for the site, then it could be viewed as a majority. But this is not the case.
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200,000 member's on GTP play GT6 ? No, so not all GTP members play GT6, and that's why they didn't vote ... If there's a way to to find out how many people play/bought GT6 it would be great.

All I can see is 118 people, on a site with 200,000 members, say they are satisfied. 422 say No and 118 say Yes. who's the minority here ?
 
lGNAl
200,000 member's on GTP play GT6 ? No, so not all GTP members play GT6, and that's why they didn't vote ... If there's a way to to find out how many people play/bought GT6 it would be great.

All I can see is 118 people, on a site with 200,000 members, say they are satisfied. 422 say No and 118 say Yes. who's the minority here ?
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Everyone that voted, form a minority - less than 0.5% of GTP members have voted.

Furthermore, less than 0.05% of people that purchased GT6 have voted. (That's if sales equal 2 million)

I have already answered very similar questions to this. There is no need to keep going around in circles. Just read the previous page.
 
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I'm actually not dissatisfied by the content of the patches. I'm dissatisfied by the lack of communication.

The fact that there are issues is not the point. They managed to resolve most issues in the past.
My biggest peeve is that there is not a single word about what we think are issues from PD's side.

Take the "improved AI" for instance. Do we know if "it's working as intended", "we are still working on the AI"??? Not even a "we will look into it".

I can't imagine they don't have a public relations guy who can translate the questions/issues brought up and a couple of quick answers from Mr K.
 
jimipitbull
Everyone that voted, form a minority - less than 0.5% of GTP members have voted.

Furthermore, less than 0.05% of people that purchased GT6 have voted. (That's if sales equal 2 million)
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If there's a way where in our profiles we can choose from a list what driving sim games each of us plays
(GT / Forza / AC / F1 / iRacing / ProjectCars ect...) then we can see how many GT players/owners actually voted in this thread.

Edit: the site can do the counting for us. and you'll have a list of how many people play what game.

yaaaaaaaaaaay suggestion :D

2nd Edit: yeah my bad Jimi, I didn't read the previous page prior to :D
 
Cyber_stig_77
So with only 117 people voting as being satisfied and 426 people not satisfied how is it that the 426 are the minority ?
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Yea, over 2/3 are in agreement except they're a "whining, complaining and entitled minority" to these people. I say it again. RATIONAL people (not fanboys) have started to put the entire picture together and they are not liking what they're seeing. @Vagabond provides some telling evidence as well with the lower traffic here. That's not because everyone is just so happy they are at a loss for words. It's because people are starting to give up and walk away.
 
WRECKU
How can anyone be satisfied with this update.
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I am.

It's a minor update, as evidenced by the fact it's a 0.01 increment from the last. It contained minor functionality changes that improved aspects of gameplay (some more significant than others, depending on your point of view).

Would I have preferred a more major 0.1 update containing Course Maker, B-Spec or some larger functionality changes? Yep, but from the time this was announced as a 0.01 update I knew what to expect - and it actually exceeded my expectations.

You don't expect new tracks with a hotfix and you shouldn't expect new features with a minor update. If you don't let your expectations carry you away, PD won't commit the terrible sin of failing to meet them.


Of course it'd have helped a bit if it hadn't been teased to be with us much earlier than it was, but that's just normal PR/Dev info mismatching.
 
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Little lesson on statistics. For a survey or poll to have validity, that is, to represent the thoughts of a larger group, it has to be a randomly sampled portion of the larger population. Open ended, anyone can respond polls by definition cannot be random samples for various reasons. All we can say from any poll on GTP is "X% of people that responded to this poll feel this way and Y% feel that way" etc. The only victory anyone can claim is regarding people that responded to the poll, not any larger population, with any degree of accuracy.

Class dismissed!!
 
Despite me voting "don't care" (because I pretty much don't care about anything :P), I do agree with the "unsatisfied" folk. I like the update for being able to make a full free run room and photomode settings never changing after you've used it, but I believe it's BS that PD had us waiting for over a month for this one SMALL update with no promised features added.

I'm amazed at the satisfied side for liking the update, and that's okay. Still, PD needs to get their act together.
 
Squanto
No don't say that ... TLOU alone is worth having a PS3 ...
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If only the online mode wasn't so incredibly out of balance...

But anyway, back to the topic. I've had my fair share of statistics courses and I know that if it's sometimes impossible to get statistically accurate results, you can at least resort to indicators. An indicator for customer satisfaction could be the number of players currently online, number of death threats received by PD, number of jihads put on Kaz and of course polls on GTPlanet (and elsewhere on the interwebz).

The poll results do not translate 1:1 to all GT players on the planet. However, asserting that a great majority of those who did not vote in this poll are happy with what they have is a wild guess based on zero piece of evidence. I would submit that the average GT player (read: casuals) might be more impatient than we are. There's a significant selection bias here: we actively participate in the forums because we are GT fanboys. We are probably the last people on Earth who would defend GT/PD/Kaz. So, if a poll here shows that 80% of *us* are not happy with the update, it's safe to say that it is indicative that a big majority of the players (and not just GTPlanet members) are unhappy with the game.

If you want to accurately quantify the level of unsatisfaction, we would need data that probably only PD has access to. The best we can do is check poll results and read the opinions of people around the world. All of that seems to point in one direction, i.e. GT6 sucks.
 
The other thing that some of the people above seem to have forgotten over the past couple of pages is that this is a poll on the satisfaction of the last update, not the game overall. So in terms of satisfaction with the game we don't actually know who the minority/majority is, but we do when it comes to this update.
 
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