10/20/2007 Demo

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 5: Prologue' started by M5_dude, Oct 3, 2007.

  1. Kamus

    Kamus

    Messages:
    176
    I have absolutley no problem with PD offering two modes, i just wish the Sim mode was at least as good as other racers' physics that aren't even that new, like i've said before the tyre simulation just doesn't feel quite right yet. even with the noticable improvements.

    You could argue however, that they could just offer one very realistic mode, and for newbies they could just add a lot of aids. (and lets not forget the licences, which can help people learn.)
    Such as visual cues of where to brake and just have the car partially controlled by AI.

    Another thing i wish, was for a more customizable AI difficulty.

    I can see why a newbie would be happy to start in last place and then come out on top by the end of the race... but this is hardly any fun or realistic for an experienced user.

    Basicly, it'd be nice if the AI controlled the car to it's limits. In all other GT's (and the demo too.) it's just slower on straights for example, even if the car it drives is faster yours, you can still pass them with ease sometimes.

    It would be really cool if they added a qualyfing lap instead of just always starting out somewhere back, and pump up the AI to realistic levels.
    Lets get real here, if you start at 8th place on an F430 and there's an F430 starting at first place you shouldn't be able to catch it in 3 laps unless the driver made a huge mistake.

    I mean, sure it's progress that the AI will now sometimes give you room to pass or try to pass you with out bumping you, but this was just one the issues with the AI.

    For this realistic AI they would need to come out with a viable way to progress in the game even if you're not finishing in first place all the time.
    Hell, while they are at it they could come out with "superdrivers" that actually have a personality.

    All this of course would be needless if PD delivers an online way to get trough the game from start to finish. (which in my book is the best idea, they could have a ladder system and in turn they could spend less time developing this system than trying to come up with convincing AI.)

    And before it's suggested, i know that switching tyres results in a more fair battle between the user and the AI, but it's just because they can corner a lot faster than you can (they don't switch tyres at all.), and the AI will bump you as a result of this a good deal of the time.
     
  2. Digital-Nitrate

    Digital-Nitrate Premium

    Messages:
    6,009
    Location:
    United States
    Here we go again with the old "go listen to it on YouTube" excuse.
    • Please, tell me this, how do you know for sure if a car on a YouTube video has been modified in any way?

    • How do you know for sure if it has not been tuned in any way other than stock?

    • How do you know for sure the car is right off the assembly line?

    • Are you aware that a car over time can, and usually do experience changes in their "sound"?

    • Are you aware that even two cars of the exact same model can and often do sound slightly different?

    • How do you know for sure what the RPMs were at?

    • Are you aware that cars will sound differently depending on the acoustics of the area they are in, the ambient temperatures, the condition of the engine, etc, etc etc?

    • How do you know for sure where exactly the microphone was placed to record the sound? With zoom lenses, and seperate mics, it could be any where, right?

    • Are you aware that the type of recording equipment used to "capture" the sound will effect how it sounds when played back?

    • How do you know for sure the exact type of recording equipment that was used?

    • How do you know for sure if the audio has at all been modified on a YouTube video?

    • Are you aware that YouTube uses compression schemes that can and does lower the quality of the audio, and especially the video?

    There are more variables as well... but I seriously hope any number of these should be ample evidence that comparing what you hear from some internet video is in no conceivable way a reasonable comparison for what a car "should sound like". :odd:

    We got it... you have a strong personal opinion/preference for a particular kind of sound... perhaps you want all cars to sound like YouTube videos... but please do not continue to suggest that this is in any way an accurate way of determining whether a recorded car sound is the same as the real thing. There are simply far too many variables for it to be anything but a subjective opinion.
     
    Quattro20v likes this.
  3. oruji

    oruji

    Messages:
    45
    I've said it before and I will say it again. How do you suppose to drive without feeling any G-Force? Making the most accurate sim is pointless if no one can play it. If anyone have had their seat in their car replace by racing bucket seat, they'd understand my point. The G-Force information from the racing seat is much more imediate and accurate, made it much easier to control your car at the limit. So, yes, they have to make it a little more forgiving.

    GT5 Prologue doesn't have 900 degrees? I don't know, but my G25 does have 900 degree support. Just no hand movement up to a certain point. To be honest, I think the game develop with the G25 wheel.
     
  4. ND4SPD

    ND4SPD Premium

    Messages:
    8,322
    Location:
    Canada
    Gah I booted up the demo and all the unlocked cars are locked again. I swear I never shut the game off with it loading anything.
     
  5. samdu

    samdu

    Messages:
    186
    Location:
    United States
  6. ND4SPD

    ND4SPD Premium

    Messages:
    8,322
    Location:
    Canada
    Does the PS3 have to be connected to the internet to access the cars again?
     
  7. Jedi2016

    Jedi2016

    Messages:
    4,161
    I wouldn't think so, it should be part of the game's config file now.

    Do you routinely disconnect the PS3?
     
  8. oruji

    oruji

    Messages:
    45
    Kamus, no bad intention, but could you please tell us a bit about your racing/driving background? Thanks. (I'm sorry if it's already in here somewhere. If that's the case, do you mind posting the link to that page?)
     
  9. Earth

    Earth

    Messages:
    7,846
    Kamus has raced Race07 and GTR. And since those games replicate physics, AI, and sound exactly like real racing he knows what real racing is like
     
  10. godzilla_GTR

    godzilla_GTR

    Messages:
    2,245
    Location:
    New Zealand
    did you have it on pro mode?
     
  11. Kamus

    Kamus

    Messages:
    176
    No bad intention eh? looks like ad hominem to me.

    I must've hit a nerve. imagine if i actually insulted you? that would've gotten quite the reaction.
     
  12. Rocket Punch

    Rocket Punch

    Messages:
    1,238
    RACE 07 is an "arcade game" when compare to nkpro. I think even the 3 years old GTL had better physics.

    I like how SimBin released the 06 just a year ago with broken features and half a year later release a bunch of cars that you have to buy, then another half a year later package the 06 & the add-on cars together, fix the code that should have been fix for 06 in the first place and call it RACE 07 so you can buy it again........There is a reason why that game $19.99, because it is basically an old game with fixed codes + like 4 new tracks. There are no less than 2 mods that you can download for free on RFactor with all those car and much much better physic engine.

    By the way, not sure what is there to argue. GT5 is not a sim, period. However, It is a very very good driving game on a console.
     
    Fruitcake likes this.
  13. Earth

    Earth

    Messages:
    7,846
    You're not upsetting me as much as you hope. I've seen your kind for quite some time now it amazes me how I can never quite get use to their predictable flame bait.

    You're all the same. Your type usually claims GT5:p has serious shortcomings or doesn't do something well, but you always end up slipping and admitting your real beef with GT5's shortcomings (which you usually grossly overexaggerate) is the fact some particular feature doesn't match another racing game in the same area.

    So you make post after post about how terrible certain features are when in reality they are indeed decent if not GREAT, but because they fall short of unmanaged expectations drawn from what other games specialize in these features become "terrible"

    What makes it worst is that this type is usually the most outspoken. Long paragraphs and the arrogance to believe your opinions deserve their own thread.
     
    Quattro20v likes this.
  14. Kamus

    Kamus

    Messages:
    176
    I'm not upseting you as much as i'd hope to?
    I'm not even trying, i do not even make mention of you at all, and yet you seem to take a personal offense in my comments (really, i don't care about you, i don't even know who you are to just come out and insult you out of nowhere.), you on the otherhand are directly insulting me. And assuming way too much about me, even though you don't even know me.
    Read what you post, you are openly insulting me with out the slightest hint of provocation.

    I've said this before, but if people got something to say about why they think i'm wrong maybe they can share their opinions instead of just resorting to personal attacks.
    I said "imagine if i insulted you" because i didn't, but because you disagree with me you went ahead and insulted me.
    That's a flame if i've ever seen one.

    What you're doing is reffered to as ad hominem.
     
  15. Kamus

    Kamus

    Messages:
    176
    +rep for you. :tup:
     
  16. oruji

    oruji

    Messages:
    45
    Kamus, the reason I asked was because I don't know how much to believe you. Don't get me wrong, you can feel and express your opinion whatever you'd like to. For me, if a gamer says it's real, it doesn't mean anything. If a professional driver says it's real, then I'd listen. And the reason I personally asked you is just because you seems to have a strong opinion about this so I want to know where you're coming from. If it's from another sim, then OK. If it's from real life experience, then OK.
     
  17. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D Premium

    Messages:
    7,439
    @ Kamus:

    Even Kazunori has said several times that Prologue is a work in progress to the GT5 he wants, and is only mostly happy with how it stands at this stage.

    You naysayers have been on a rampage for... ever, it seems. "Gran Turismo 5 will only have 6 or 8 cars." "GT5 will only be a pretty shell over a GT4 physics engine." "The AI will always be the same brain dead cruise missiles." Yadda yadda yadda.

    What we have isn't even Prologue. It's a download. A demo download. Adding in proper samples would expand the audio files tremendously and make the download even longer, not to mention better graphics some people insist has to bet there. Some people have problems just getting this.

    And suppose Prologue isn't that different from the demo. It's a prelude. The real Gran Turismo 5 is a year or more away. If the demo didn't have elements of distinct improvement, then you might possibly have something to say. But this crusade of yours is... well, you're just being a pig about everything. You've said your piece many many times, and I think it's time you left it at that and moved along.
     
  18. Kamus

    Kamus

    Messages:
    176
    Umm, did you even read my post? O_o

    I was talking about a completley different subject for the most part, on a different aproach to AI.
     
  19. unv412

    unv412

    Messages:
    453
    the way I see it is that kamus is not bashing the demo, just voicing his opinion! All this crap from Earth and D Nitrate realy is pretty childish as it was just baiting to get a response from Kamus.Not COOL guys......not cool.As far as the R L experiance (how do you prove it????) you can usualy tell if someone knows how a car handles.....its in the details of the description (hence the contant requests for better/accurate physics in the GT series).Best Motoring videos (got heaps in the personal library)are also probably the most accurate display of how a car handles on a circuit, incar footage is priceless not to mention the side by side racing.Come to think of it, watch enough of these, and you might become an expert on racing!!!!:sly:
     
  20. Jay

    Jay Premium

    Messages:
    20,124
    Location:
    Australia
    I bet you havent set 'professional' physics. Set to professional (check the translation thread if you are unsure which setting it is) and take out the IS-F, gun it out of a bend and the rear will step out plenty.
     
  21. Digital-Nitrate

    Digital-Nitrate Premium

    Messages:
    6,009
    Location:
    United States
    What isn't cool is when someone doesn't look back at the posts and read them accurately. The only one baiting was Kamus every time he responded negatively towards many people who were sharing a positive opinion about GT5:p and using grossly exaggerated facts to try and discredit their positive opinion. This is what I responded to. So please get your facts straight on who was doing the bait, and who was attaching the other people's personal opinions. My only issue with Kamus is that instead of just posting his opnion, he disguises it as objective facts, and then attachs the personal opinion of others.

    Now that's not cool.




    Agreed.
     
  22. Joey D

    Joey D Premium

    Messages:
    43,619
    Location:
    United States
    Alright I'll have to figure it out how to do that.

    This is what is frustrating me, PD wants to sell this game in the states and expects us to buy it when GT5 finally does hit US shores, but they don't give us a demo in our native language. I personally do not like have to stare at loads of Japanese writing and it would be nice to have a translated demo...even if it's not the best of English.
     
  23. Jay

    Jay Premium

    Messages:
    20,124
    Location:
    Australia
    Here is the thread
    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=99237



    Once Prologue becomes closer to release in other regions outside Japan we may see a english demo, remember the Japanese release date of Prologue is set December (13), they havent even announced a official date for PAL and US regions (just 2008).
     
  24. kikie

    kikie Premium

    Messages:
    23,356
  25. Joey D

    Joey D Premium

    Messages:
    43,619
    Location:
    United States
    Thanks for the thread link :tup:.

    But without the English demo it's almost like PD is ignoring it's customer base in Europe, North American, Australia, and New Zealand, which I assume is a rather large market for them. Everyone I know with a PS2 has a copy of GT4. I just think they are shooting themselves in the foot by not catering to more people.

    And no this doesn't detract from the game play (I know someone will accuse me of hating on GT5 or something), I mean I honestly think it's going to be an awesome game based on the demo. I just wish I could some what read it.
     
  26. amar212

    amar212 Premium

    Messages:
    4,002
    Location:
    Croatia
    By having offical site regarding demo on English, I do not see it as "ignoring". I just see it as "who wants to download it, let him download it".

    Allowing all playes from around the world to create fake accounts and have acess to other regions is nice move. I guess you'd be more frustrated if they'd locked the option for acess to Japanese servers, then to use internet for a second and see what some nice people had did for lazy bastards such as us who didn't learn Japanese.

    Because, it's a Japanese game after all, right?

    And why sould be normal to have everybody know English and that everything is on English? Because majority of the world speaks English? Not correct. Majority speaks Chinese :)

    Then think about Europe. We have more then 40 countries here and almost every single one has different language, or different alterations of that language. Then all of us should also be mad? No, we use internet, we find the translations and we use them. It's no problem.

    Then North America. Is there French option for Canadians? Different Native Indian options for all those true NA inhabitans? Siouxi? Navaho? Black Foot? Spanish for all those that have Spanish as majority native language in North America actually? Hawaiian, which is also official language in 50th state?

    Australia and New Zeland? Is there option for their native people languages, such as Maori or Aboriginal? Or Arabian for different Middle East nations which are also in PAL region?

    You should't be so mad about the fact somebody is actually letting you have something it's not for you, as well as somebody is doing an effort to make the thing I mentioned on the first place more acessible to you too.

    Damn colonisation and imperialism made people so lazy I willl puke :)
     
  27. Joey D

    Joey D Premium

    Messages:
    43,619
    Location:
    United States
    Yes more people speak Chinese then English, but do you know how many different dialects of Chinese there are and how many people there are in China? Also I would wager that a rice farmer in China does not have a PS3 or any knowledge to what exactly GT5 is.

    English is spoken as a major language all over the world, I mean you aren't from an English speaking county yet you can read and write it just fine. English seems like the next logical choice to have as a language for the demo probably followed by Spanish.

    I don't understand what you are getting at though, yes there are people who speak other languages but a standard in the world is still English whether you like it that way or not.

    Look I don't want to have to do my own translating on something, I think it should be offered to me in a language that is spoken quite a bit throughout the world.
     
  28. amar212

    amar212 Premium

    Messages:
    4,002
    Location:
    Croatia
    In fact I do, but nevermind that.

    For someone who is so proud and keen to stress his own education-degree in his signature, you're just a bit too lazy my friend :).

    No hard feelings though :).
     
  29. Joey D

    Joey D Premium

    Messages:
    43,619
    Location:
    United States
    So I'm lazy because I don't feel like trying to translate a video game? :rolleyes:
     
  30. unv412

    unv412

    Messages:
    453
    I have read all the posts, and I got the general feeling Kamus moved on from your intial discussions only to be harrased by you and others whilst chatting about a different discussion. As far as these "gross exagerations" as you say go,maybe your confusing it with Kamus's passion on the particular subject (physics/AI etc) and he is probably less tactful in his approach than others (not reffering to those that think things need attention in GT and are too scared to upset PD by pointing them out) In closing, I dont want to be here defending people,I want to learn more about GT......without the needless posts that say "your stupid,you suck yada,yada".