2008 Best Car Series: Nissan GT-R vs Lotus Exige 240 S

[nissan tuner]

I'd rather live with the GTR so thats what ill vote for. I would never own an exige over a base elise anyways

 

[Famine]

I actually thought you ment elise somehow at first, but yeah... I can tell. It's a 240s

Wheels are different as well as the side intake and rear wing being body colored too.

Nice theory. The orange car in the picture is actually an Exige S Sports & Touring pack, not an Exige 240S...


As I said, I wouldn't be able to tell any of the Exiges apart at a glance. A 240S trundling past could be just any other Exige. Lotus need to do something different rather than keep adding more power to the poor thing and giving us more and more "special" editions that even enthusiasts of the marque would struggle to demarcate at first sight.

 

[McLaren]

I love Lotus, but... All they seem to do these days is tweak the Elise. And when I say tweak I mean "give more power to". Would you even notice this was an Exige 240 S when it came past, rather than an "ordinary" Exige?

I do have to agree with Famine here. Worse yet, and no offense Exige, but Lotus lately has been pulling a Lamborghini. Every few months, I seem to see some brand new edition of the Exige that isn't much different in horsepower, but has some design, or different colored stripes exclusive to that model.

It's an amazing car, but I'm very glad the Evora is here now so, if the time comes, I can actually choose something from Lotus without it being an Elise/Exige of some sort.

Thus, I voted for the GT-R. Fantastic car, and absolutely stunning in black with titanium-like colored rims.

 

[exigeracer]

I do have to agree with Famine here. Worse yet, and no offense Exige, but Lotus lately has been pulling a Lamborghini. Every few months, I seem to see some brand new edition of the Exige that isn't much different in horsepower, but has some design, or different colored stripes exclusive to that model.

Totally agree:

The 211 however has been toted by any tester as being soooo much more than a reskinned Elise. It feels like its entirely own car.

They're running out of ideas with the Elise/Exige series (although they still have the Exige GT3 in the bag, which is substantially different) and although the VVA chassis system has been launched, the 111 chassis still has a lot of potential. Too bad they don't quite have the resources to explore this.

 

[homeforsummer]

Nissan said that the car was made to obey nature

Made to obey nature? I'd be careful taking a Japanese engineer's English literally - with the best will in the world it wouldn't be the first time that a Japanese phrase hadn't made perfect sense in translation. So you have to be careful paraphrasing it here because out of context it makes even less sense.

Let's make this clear. All cars "obey" nature, or to be more specific, the laws of physics. By using downforce and other aerodynamic effects they're harnessing nature, but still conforming to the laws of physics. The same can be said of the electronics - very clever, but they can't defy the laws of physics - as the owner of the car below would probably testify:

and that if you stop thinking of the car and the earth seperately, you would realize that the earth had always had the power.

This doesn't even make a shred of sense.

 

[exigeracer]

Nice theory. The orange car in the picture is actually an Exige S Sports & Touring pack, not an Exige 240S...

Could you post where you read this? Sports and Touring packs on '08 Exiges are indiscernible on the outside, and the roofscoop reaching to the windscreen is considered exclusive to 240-equipped cars and certain '07 Exige Cup cars, however the line gets blurred with Cup cars as Lotus tolerated a decent amount of customer-specific demands.

What Viper posted is something entirely different, including the <'07 Chrome Orange versus the Burnt Orange, new to '08, paint in post #1.

 

[Jim Prower]

Let's make this clear. All cars "obey" nature, or to be more specific, the laws of physics. By using downforce and other aerodynamic effects they're harnessing nature, but still conforming to the laws of physics. The same can be said of the electronics - very clever, but they can't defy the laws of physics - as the owner of the car below would probably testify:

This doesn't even make a shred of sense.

Regarding that, I've looked at my recent issue of Motor Trend. Apparently, for all the mechanical grip the car has, (and this is with Stability Control fully off) it lets loose very suddenly and without warning when provoked into oversteer. "It's a very visceral car to drive," said Randy Pobst.

Gee, that doesn't sound like the easy-peasy grandma-could-go-fast-in-it car we originally thought...That sounds a little...hardcore.

 

[Prosthetic]

Both Jeremy Clarkson and Jay Leno loved the GTR and said it was very playful with out the helping controls...

 

[Joey D]

Clarkson also said that it was nothing more then a giant digital camera, lots of features without soul. That's my biggest issue with the car to be honest. Cars need to have character, passion, soul, etc. for me to like them. This is one reason I like the Exige so much in this poll. It does what a sports car should do.

As I've always said though, the GT-R is a great performance car, it's quite fast and is a a fair price without the mark-ups.

 

[YSSMAN]

You do realize that you just described both cars in this thread?

Yes, I'm well aware of it... Trust me, rhetorical support goes to the Lotus, and in general, everything that they do. But between the two cars, at least in my opinion, I view the GT-R as the superior choice. Perhaps if it would have been only the Elise, I may have chosen it as my preference usually goes towards practical and otherwise "cheap" performance cars...

 

[gator of kana]

Made to obey nature? I'd be careful taking a Japanese engineer's English literally - with the best will in the world it wouldn't be the first time that a Japanese phrase hadn't made perfect sense in translation. So you have to be careful paraphrasing it here because out of context it makes even less sense.

Let's make this clear. All cars "obey" nature, or to be more specific, the laws of physics. By using downforce and other aerodynamic effects they're harnessing nature, but still conforming to the laws of physics. The same can be said of the electronics - very clever, but they can't defy the laws of physics - as the owner of the car below would probably testify:

This doesn't even make a shred of sense.

This problem is never going to be solved I can see that now, forget what I said okay, I'm tired of proving anything I'm telling you guys now. homeforsummer you won okay, I don't care no more about points being made, I just want to have a conversation about the cars and not about my deductions for a change.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Regarding that, I've looked at my recent issue of Motor Trend. Apparently, for all the mechanical grip the car has, (and this is with Stability Control fully off) it lets loose very suddenly and without warning when provoked into oversteer. "It's a very visceral car to drive," said Randy Pobst.

Gee, that doesn't sound like the easy-peasy grandma-could-go-fast-in-it car we originally thought...That sounds a little...hardcore.

You know, the higher the limits are, the more disastrous it is when you exceed them, as well as the finer the line is between the limit and over it.

38-3900lbs ain't going to like being slid around all that much either. It's one thing when the GT-R is on the limit and the tires are managing to hold it in place, but when they let go... 2 tons of car will want to keep moving.

 

[neanderthal]

By doing more with less, i reckon the Lotus is the better car.

Lets face it, you can throw technology at a car and add power and all sorts of whizz bang effects until you have an awesome machine. The problem with that is that you dilute the soul of the car. It ends up being a better car on all the stats but not the one that reasonates with my soul.

Case in point; Bugatti Veyron vs Macca F1. Macca for the win. Period.

Thats not to say the bug isnt an awesome car, it spectacularly is. But its kinda like the overdone TV blonde, big teased hair, big boobs, long legs, pretty face, nice figure etc. I'll take Leann Tweeden anyday; the cute hot chic next door who doesnt mind getting dirty. She may not have as awesome a rack of stats as that overdone bimbo, but she steals my heart everytime.

Remember, the lil Lotus plays with big boys itself, big boys with twice the engine size, twice the power, wheels twice as wide, and brakes bigger than some of its wheels. The Nissan has just as much if not more power, wheels and tires just as wide, brakes just as big, more complex engineering and aerodynamics and so on. Really, IT SHOULD, do all it does. That it does is a testament to Nissan, whove managed to not completely mangle it while adding all that stuff. Lawd knows many other manufacturers would have messed it up (Im looking at you BMW!!!!) (i dont like thier new M3) (for no real reason other than its really more of a GT now in comparison to what the E30 was in its heydey) (restore my faith in you BMW, bring on the M3 GTR that raced a few years ago)

Do more with less; much more impressive in my book.

 

[exigeracer]

Anyone follow Australian GT over the past 3 years? A 5 yearold Lotus totally spanked the competition, enough for Porsche to whine enough to get their own series...

 

[Muzaffar]

Voted for the GT-R. Not much to say about the car, but the only intention for the car is world domination. The GT-R name in itself really has a lot of racing history in it. I would love to vote for the Lotus, but it really seriously lack that certain something to be up there with the best of them. Could be a lack of history on the car, could be that its probably shares so many components with its sister car, could be anything really.........

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Anyone follow Australian GT over the past 3 years? A 5 yearold Lotus totally spanked the competition, enough for Porsche to whine enough to get their own series...

Wait, wait, wait... Australian GT is aired overseas, yet I haven't seen it on TV at all this year?

Anyway, I voted for the GTR. Both cars are amazing, but this time the GTR is the winner in my eyes.

 

[exigeracer]

Both Jeremy Clarkson and Jay Leno loved the GTR and said it was very playful with out the helping controls...

How many Elans does Leno own?

Wait, wait, wait... Australian GT is aired overseas, yet I haven't seen it on TV at all this year?

Last I heard/saw, F430s and a lone S1 Exige demolished any chance of Porsche contention, so they started their own factory-sponsored series, pretty much ending the normal circuit.

 

[kikie]

As much as I like the Lotus, its concept etc, I 'm going to vote for the GT-R.



I voted for the Lotus by mistake.
If there is a mod who would like to help me, .... thanks

 

[Leonidae]

You know that my vote went to GT-R. I love the Elise/Exige, but the S2 gen has started to lose the plot of the story just like any other car. They're getting heavier, more powerful, bigger.. and in addition, a roadlegal go-kart can be bit tiresome to drive around. S1 Elise/Exige was a lot better car. S2 is softer, watered down for big kids and unexperienced drivers. Had it been the S1 in this poll, the decision would had been a LOT harder.

 

[V1P3R]

💡 What's that I hear...?

j/k

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I voted the GT-R, milestone advancement, and doesn't look like a bug, well, at least I think the Lotus looks like a bug.

 

[gator of kana]

You know that my vote went to GT-R. I love the Elise/Exige, but the S2 gen has started to lose the plot of the story just like any other car. They're getting heavier, more powerful, bigger.. and in addition, a roadlegal go-kart can be bit tiresome to drive around. S1 Elise/Exige was a lot better car. S2 is softer, watered down for big kids and unexperienced drivers. Had it been the S1 in this poll, the decision would had been a LOT harder.

I think Lotus needs to make a 3rd generation Elise/Exige, they're stretching the 2nd generation model's production span pretty badly, and even worse they are still making more edition models as we speak, if they keep this up they will have more trim models than Mercedes-Benz

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Anyone follow Australian GT over the past 3 years? A 5 yearold Lotus totally spanked the competition, enough for Porsche to whine enough to get their own series...

What's Australian GT? The production car series, no, must be something else.

 

[niky]

Normally, I would say less is more, simplicity over all and call it a win for the Exige.

But:

The Exige is neither the simplest or purest iteration of the Elise. Some reviews have noted that the Elise is the more "fun" of the two to drive... the extra power and grip don't really do all that much for the experience.

I'm not one to say that Lotus is overusing the current Elise... hell... if it ain't broke, don't kill it... but the Exige just doesn't do it for me... not like a basic Elise does. The Exige is merely a heavier, faster, grippier Elise.

It doesn't bring anything new to the equation... the GT-R, on the other hand, has set the sportscar field topsy turvy... and has put the words "Nurb Lap Record" on the lips of people who otherwise wouldn't have given a flying fig (note: for the anti-pork brigade, the Veyron isn't even close in terms of track times to the company the GT-R is keeping at the moment.)

It's a controversial car, and it's the most discussed (and dissed) sportscar on the planet, at the moment. In this way, it does more for Nissan's brand image than another Lotus "special" edition can (yeah... it's kind of becoming like Mazda's special edition Miatas, isn't it... only this Exige is like the last hurrah NB Mazdaspeed Miata... the most hardcore of the lot).

I'm sorry for being a hypocrite. I hate heavy, but I don't hate it enough to vote against the GT-R. And before anyone says "computer driven"... the Exige has traction control and ABS... so there... nyeh! The Viper is actually a more hardcore "old schooler" than the Lotus!

 

[Famine]

Could you post where you read this?

The DVLA.

AO57CXC
Make: LOTUS
Model: EXIGE S TOUR & SPORTS
Date of First Registration: 12 10 2007
Year of Manufacture: 2007
Cylinder Capacity (cc): 1796CC
CO2 Emissions: 216g/Km
Fuel Type: Petrol
Vehicle Colour: ORANGE


Of course, herein lies my point. Even someone who loves Elises/Exiges so much that their username contains Exige is unsure as to whether a given example is this super-special edition which beat all but the DB9 in the British round. And he can even identify the paint code at a glance. That's how blurry the lines are on the Exige these days.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

What's Australian GT? The production car series, no, must be something else.

Australian GT Championship.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Australian GT Championship.

I haven't seen that series in ages, I wonder what show they air it on. Last time I seen that the Gallardo was just joining, and the Elise really got hammered every round IIRC. Now that new GT3 R8 is joining, gotta find out where I can see it. (Didn't know the DB9 was in it either )

 

[homeforsummer]

For those interested, a list of Lotus Elise special editions and cars based on the platform. It's by no means comprehensive (doesn't include all the Exiges, a few special edition Elises, the basic Elise S - my favourite - and stuff like the Tesla), but it gives you a good idea of the Lotus Elise models out there.

On that point, I've never seen the problem with all the special edition Elises out there. I'd certainly rather special edition Elises than endless special editions of some crummy city car, for example. For one thing, the Elise is, and always has been, a fantastic sports car. None of these special editions make it "worse" in any way, they all just add little bits, change little things and basically offer the market more choice. It's the way business works. Even better if the special edition offers something different or genuinely new (such as the Eco Elise, which will hopefully be released in one form or another at some stage).

It will certainly be interesting when the Elise S3 comes along, but for the time being the Elise S2 is still at the top of it's game, so as the saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Anyway there's one thing that's certain: However many special edition Elises there are, there will still be five times that number of GT-Rs in GT5

 

[Famine]

It will certainly be interesting when the Elise S3 comes along, but for the time being the Elise S2 is still at the top of it's game, so as the saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Tell that to Lotus, who can't stop themselves tinkering with a car which was perfectly good in the first place.

On that point, I've never seen the problem with all the special edition Elises out there. I'd certainly rather special edition Elises than endless special editions of some crummy city car, for example. For one thing, the Elise is, and always has been, a fantastic sports car. None of these special editions make it "worse" in any way, they all just add little bits, change little things and basically offer the market more choice. It's the way business works. Even better if the special edition offers something different or genuinely new (such as the Eco Elise, which will hopefully be released in one form or another at some stage).

But if no-one can tell your uber-version from the "povvo" version, the only way they'll know is if you tell them. And if you have to tell them what it is, they probably weren't interested in the first place.

Anyway there's one thing that's certain: However many special edition Elises there are, there will still be five times that number of GT-Rs in GT5

Harsh

 

[homeforsummer]

Tell that to Lotus, who can't stop themselves tinkering with a car which was perfectly good in the first place.

But none of the subsequent ones are bad, it has to be said. They're not changing the base model constantly, they're adding more to the range. Like I said, it's simply business, and given Lotus' problems in the past it's understandable they'd milk the market a little.

But if no-one can tell your uber-version from the "povvo" version, the only way they'll know is if you tell them. And if you have to tell them what it is, they probably weren't interested in the first place.

At least car fans are given a chance, as they tend to paint their special editions in unique colours!