2008 Best Car Series: Nissan GT-R vs Lotus Exige 240 S

[gator of kana]

They got more trim models than Mercedes-Benz

 

[Jim Prower]

You know, for true purity and sticking to Lotus ethos, you really can't get closer in the (normal) Elise/Exige range than this little guy.

It's kind of like the Miata: the S2 is a better car, but the S1 is a better Elise. And much of it is for the exact same reason: the Elise is bigger, softer, and more powerful.

 

[homeforsummer]

You know, for true purity and sticking to Lotus ethos, you really can't get closer in the (normal) Elise/Exige range than this little guy.

*Elise S1*

It's kind of like the Miata: the S2 is a better car, but the S1 is a better Elise. And much of it is for the exact same reason: the Elise is bigger, softer, and more powerful.

Agreed. If I had a spare £8k lying about I'd get the most mint basic S1 I could.

 

[niky]

It's a very tough choice... old Miata versus new... the new one is sharper, more powerful and more capable, but it lacks that little something something the old one had... the old one was just perfect, utterly honest, direct and organic... except it could have been sharper, more powerful... etcetera... you know the saying... "be careful what you wish for..."

Anyway there's one thing that's certain: However many special edition Elises there are, there will still be five times that number of GT-Rs in GT5

Harsh

But well-played... very well-played...

 

[exigeracer]

The DVLA.

AO57CXC
Make: LOTUS
Model: EXIGE S TOUR & SPORTS
Date of First Registration: 12 10 2007
Year of Manufacture: 2007
Cylinder Capacity (cc): 1796CC
CO2 Emissions: 216g/Km
Fuel Type: Petrol
Vehicle Colour: ORANGE


Of course, herein lies my point. Even someone who loves Elises/Exiges so much that their username contains Exige is unsure as to whether a given example is this super-special edition which beat all but the DB9 in the British round. And he can even identify the paint code at a glance. That's how blurry the lines are on the Exige these days.

There's nothing identifying that car as having the touring package or sports package though. I'm not unsure what model it is, I know it is a S 240. The fact that the DVLA registers the car's option packages in the car's title doesn't make it a different car. It's honestly down to the pictured car having more or less optional interior trim and suspension goodies in it's title.

 

[gator of kana]

I heard that the GT-R is not just a fast car, it's also suppose to be like a toy that you can play with too, you know like a giant video game thanks to Kazunori Yamauchi and the multifunction meter

 

[Jim Prower]

I heard that the GT-R is not just a fast car, it's also suppose to be like a toy that you can play with too, you know like a giant video game thanks to Kazunori Yamauchi and the multifunction meter

Request you not ever, ever say that again. You could kill the car's chances.

That's not exactly flattering, the way you worded it.

 

[gator of kana]

Request you not ever, ever say that again. You could kill the car's chances.

That's not exactly flattering, the way you worded it.

What are you talking about that's not flattering? Don't you like video games? Who would turn down on a car just because they don't like video games?

 

[McLaren]

What are you talking about that's not flattering? Don't you like video games? Who would turn down on a car just because they don't like video games?

People who hate dealing with multiple electronics & menus in cars.

 

[Jim Prower]

That, and comparing a car to a child's plaything? Sure, we all miss the carefreeness of being a kid, but we don't want to have people saying we're driving in a big toy...

((Although, really, some people call any sports car a "big toy," but that's beside the point...))

Yeah, At least the max performance settings in the GT-R are fairly easy to find, unlike some cars which require inputting a cheat code to get the launch control in the super-secret forbidden mode. (Ferrari)

 

[gator of kana]

That, and comparing a car to a child's plaything? Sure, we all miss the carefreeness of being a kid, but we don't want to have people saying we're driving in a big toy...

Why would you care about people saying that you drive in a toy, that's just criticism talk that they're doing. They are missing all the fun that's packed in the GT-R.

 

[niky]

Because it's the darn link between the GT-R and video games that has fostered the myth that there's a Japanese Ninja Robot hidden underneath the bonnet doing all the driving for you.

A lot of criticism of the GT-R is precisely the fact that it's like driving a giant video game. Where you have infinite lives, can never crash, and always win the race. Which is of course, a flat-out lie, since the Nissan GT-R, whether the current R35 or previous incarnations, is a lairy car to drive... that it can hold a ridiculous powerslide if you know what you're doing (something that most AWD cars can do, anyway, Robot Ninja Monkeys or not) doesn't change the fact that it can kill you horribly if you don't. Which is what many people still don't understand, despite the number of GT-R crashes occuring at both ridiculous and not-so-ridiculous speeds, by people who mistakenly assume that the car will actually drive for them and drive it straight off the road.

The GT-R may have the ambience of a PS3-based uber-driving simulator, but it's a real car, which provides real visceral thrills (you can't feel G-forces on a console!) and goes real fast.

 

[Joey D]

I heard that the GT-R is not just a fast car, it's also suppose to be like a toy that you can play with too, you know like a giant video game thanks to Kazunori Yamauchi and the multifunction meter

Which is exactly why the car has no soul. If I want to play video games I would do just that, but if I have the urge to drive a real car I want to be able to do that as well. It's sort of like many BMW's now days, I would be hard pressed to own one based on the iDrive system and yes I have played around with it.

 

[HACKr]

As much as I like the Lotus, I voted for the GTR because I can haul a body or maybe two without chopping them up, whereas with the Lotus I'd be lucky to get maybe one chopped-up one in there.

 

[gator of kana]

Which is exactly why the car has no soul. If I want to play video games I would do just that, but if I have the urge to drive a real car I want to be able to do that as well. It's sort of like many BMW's now days, I would be hard pressed to own one based on the iDrive system and yes I have played around with it.

How does a car have soul? I'm not getting what you're talking about.

 

[Joey D]

How does a car have soul? I'm not getting what you're talking about.

It has a feel to it, a distinctly mechanical one, any gear head should know this to be honest. I can drive a car and get a pretty good handle on whether or not it was built with soul and I have a feel just about everyone else here can too. My car while I love it doesn't have nearly as much soul as the original Mini did and I know if I was given the choice to choose between the two I would take the classic in a heartbeat.

The GT-R is nothing more than a bunch of gizmos and gadgets crammed into a hunk of poorly designed metal. Sure it's fast and can lap many of the world's greatest tracks in very respectable times, but if I sat in a car and felt like I was playing a video game I would be very disconnected from the drive. I don't think the GT-R is easy to drive (well for me at least) since it does have a lot of power and I am no skilled racing driver. I don't want things to be overly digital, at least not in my car.

 

[gator of kana]

It has a feel to it, a distinctly mechanical one, any gear head should know this to be honest. I can drive a car and get a pretty good handle on whether or not it was built with soul and I have a feel just about everyone else here can too. My car while I love it doesn't have nearly as much soul as the original Mini did and I know if I was given the choice to choose between the two I would take the classic in a heartbeat.

The GT-R is nothing more than a bunch of gizmos and gadgets crammed into a hunk of poorly designed metal. Sure it's fast and can lap many of the world's greatest tracks in very respectable times, but if I sat in a car and felt like I was playing a video game I would be very disconnected from the drive. I don't think the GT-R is easy to drive (well for me at least) since it does have a lot of power and I am no skilled racing driver. I don't want things to be overly digital, at least not in my car.

So it's the driving and not the amazement of the gizmos is what makes a car have soul.

 

[Joey D]

So it's the driving and not the amazement of the gizmos is what makes a car have soul?

No, read what I said, it's the feel of the car and that feel is a mechanical one. Cars that become more integrated with certain types of technology make the drive lazy. Yes I agree traction control and stability control can be useful in everyday driving (especially in snowy climates), but many other things are useless because I would wager a guess most people have no idea how to use the gizmos on their cars and have no real motive to learn.

 

[gator of kana]

No, read what I said, it's the feel of the car and that feel is a mechanical one. Cars that become more integrated with certain types of technology make the drive lazy. Yes I agree traction control and stability control can be useful in everyday driving (especially in snowy climates), but many other things are useless because I would wager a guess most people have no idea how to use the gizmos on their cars and have no real motive to learn.

I'm suprised that you didn't use this logic on the Audi R8, because if you did you wouldn't have voted for it

 

[Joey D]

I'm suprised that you didn't use this logic on the Audi R8, because if you did you wouldn't have voted for it

I think the same thing of the R8 too, I just I wasn't going to vote for the stupidly overpriced Konigsegg. In that contest the R8 was the better vehicle, just as in this contest I feel the Exige is the better vehicle. However, depending on what is next I could easily vote for something else.

 

[YSSMAN]

How does a car have soul? I'm not getting what you're talking about.

Read it, love it, understand it. These are the cars of the promised land, the cars that America has been deprived of for far too long...

 

[McLaren]

So it's the driving and not the amazement of the gizmos is what makes a car have soul.

Pretty much.

C'mon, you can't tell me you've never read a review on an old supercar. In the 90's, magazines loved to describe the souls cars had. Lamborghini's had the soul of being cars delivering insane amounts of power, and being good for nothing but something to kill yourself in. Reviewers loved it.

Alfa Romeos back then were stupidly famous for having a soul. If you ever watch the Top Gear episode from last season where the guys took 3 Alfa Romeos, they all encountered problems, but as Clarkson stated, they all still had a soul. Electronics today kill that soul because the computer is always working to keep the car suited to the current condition instead of letting you deal with it.

It's tough, but when you drive a few sports cars and such, you can understand and get a feeling for why these cars have a soul. The way they drive just intrigues you, it grabs you, it makes you want to keep driving. A car with a soul is just inviting whether it be laid back or challenging.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, it doesn't have to be a sportscar either... There are plenty of "normal" cars that ooze soul in a manner at which their more luxurious/sporty brethren do not. My old Fox was a good example of an odd little car that teaches you a lot about what driving should be like, newer cars like the Mazda3 come to mind as well.

Want a good picture of soul vs no soul that can easily be measured?

VS

 

[McLaren]

It's nothing against new cars, but I just don't see the same type of soul in newer cars than the older ones. It might be all the technology, but they just don't feel the same. An E36 M3 is fun, and it makes me want to thrash it. My 5 just doesn't deliver the same feeling, nor did the 3. I mean, sure they can be fun, but I think there's a line between a fun car & a car that has a soul.

Maybe I just haven't driven enough new cars.

 

[Omnis]

Well, it doesn't have to be a sportscar either... There are plenty of "normal" cars that ooze soul in a manner at which their more luxurious/sporty brethren do not. My old Fox was a good example of an odd little car that teaches you a lot about what driving should be like, newer cars like the Mazda3 come to mind as well.

Want a good picture of soul vs no soul that can easily be measured?

VS

I see two cars. Neither of which are either a GT-R or an Exige.

 

[gator of kana]

Pretty much.

C'mon, you can't tell me you've never read a review on an old supercar. In the 90's, magazines loved to describe the souls cars had. Lamborghini's had the soul of being cars delivering insane amounts of power, and being good for nothing but something to kill yourself in. Reviewers loved it.

Alfa Romeos back then were stupidly famous for having a soul. If you ever watch the Top Gear episode from last season where the guys took 3 Alfa Romeos, they all encountered problems, but as Clarkson stated, they all still had a soul. Electronics today kill that soul because the computer is always working to keep the car suited to the current condition instead of letting you deal with it.

It's tough, but when you drive a few sports cars and such, you can understand and get a feeling for why these cars have a soul. The way they drive just intrigues you, it grabs you, it makes you want to keep driving. A car with a soul is just inviting whether it be laid back or challenging.

I actually read reviews on new cars more often than old and yes I have seen the Top Gear last season. So if a car has great reliabilty it has no soul but if the reliability is bad on a car then it has soul. If that's the case then this is my favorite soul car.

This 1st generation Impreza has always had engine trouble when was pushed to the limit for a few minutes, the engine was powerful but couldn't handle the power

 

[Muzaffar]

that it can hold a ridiculous powerslide if you know what you're doing (something that most AWD cars can do, anyway, Robot Ninja Monkeys or not) doesn't change the fact that it can kill you horribly if you don't.

Well yeah. 👍 A scary car to drive indeed when it is pushed to its limit. I mean, Jeremy Clarkson snapped his neck when he was testing the GT-R in Fuji Speedway.....

How does a car have soul? I'm not getting what you're talking about.

So it's the driving and not the amazement of the gizmos is what makes a car have soul.

Try driving an old car and a new car and tell us which car has more soul. Of course, you wouldn't understand it if your never a true car enthusiast like most of us.

Want a good picture of soul vs no soul that can easily be measured?
Toyota Camry

VS

Mazda 6

WHAT!!!!? You got to be kidding me, both cars don't have a single soul in its body at all..... 👎

 

[McLaren]

I actually read reviews on new cars more often than old and yes I have seen the Top Gear last season. So if a car has great reliabilty it has no soul but if the reliability is bad on a car then it has soul. If that's the case then this is my favorite soul car.

This 1st generation Impreza has always had engine trouble when was pushed to the limit for a few minutes

I don't think you quite got the point. Having a soul has nothing to with reliability. It's about how the car drives and how it involves you. Cars with soul are typically called funner, more interesting, more involving, something that really puts a smile on your face.

 

[Muzaffar]

I don't think you quite got the point. Having a soul has nothing to with reliability. It's about how the car drives and how it involves you. Cars with soul are typically called funner, more interesting, more involving, something that really puts a smile on your face.

Well......... he did compare the GT-R to a video game, what are the chances he knows all about soul when he's too busy thinking about gadgets? gator of kana, you really have to be old school if you want to know what soul means to a car. Think of it as this: How did you have fun when video games and computer didn't exist during your time? The same can probably apply to cars as well.....

 

[gator of kana]

I don't think you quite got the point. Having a soul has nothing to with reliability. It's about how the car drives and how it involves you. Cars with soul are typically called funner, more interesting, more involving, something that really puts a smile on your face.

Can you show me an example of a car? I can't think of any car that has your theory