2008 Best Car Series: (Round 3) Nissan GT-R vs Audi R8

[slidesquad#1]

When GOK said he liked how you can make the GTR into your own tuning car, well you can do that with pretty much anything. Slow shmower, a 470kw HSV will eat the GTR after its loss of traction in a drag race.
I know they make some cars with outlandish mods and all, but as far as I know they're not doing much with the R35 yet other than exhausts and computer remaps. Then I laughed at the big wings and lairy stickers on them, stickers sound like ricing to me.



They look tough is what they look, and the only body mods is the bonnet bulge, which is a tribute to Tom Walkinshaw's highly iconic VL (the part en-educated guys would miss right?). I also see no stickers anywhere, and it's all performance mods from there.

When the Japanese tuners stop using outlandish body kits (not on the R35 yet, but on everything else), big wings, and mad tyte stickers my respect for them will grow ten fold, because they make brilliant performance packages.

Yeah, that bonnet bulge, it's tacky as hell. The fact that it pays tribute to the ugliest car in Australian history doesn't make it any less tacky.

Are there any performance figures around for the 470kw engine equipped cars? Admittedly I based my "epitome of HSV slower than GTR" comment based on the W427, so I could be wrong.
But yeah, do you have any figures backing up the "will eat the GTR in a drag race." I'm not saying it wouldn't, but do you have any figures backing this up or are you just basing this on your completely unbiased, unopinionated, thoughts?

With respect to the R35, you have to keep in mind Nissan released it with a so-called uncrackable ECU that throws check engine lights if you change the wheels. That's what these guys are working with, and they've already cracked it and are moving on to bigger and better things.
The LS series V8's have been around, with people modifying them, for how long?

And oh yeah, the Japanese tuners have outlandish body kits because, guess what, people buy them, and they're primarily in the business of making money, not gaining mad respectz.
And, with respect to most of the tuners, the cars with the big wings actually need them, they see racetrack time. A lot.

 

[Joey D]

They look tough is what they look, and the only body mods is the bonnet bulge, which is a tribute to Tom Walkinshaw's highly iconic VL (the part en-educated guys would miss right?). I also see no stickers anywhere, and it's all performance mods from there.

When the Japanese tuners stop using outlandish body kits (not on the R35 yet, but on everything else), big wings, and mad tyte stickers my respect for them will grow ten fold, because they make brilliant performance packages.

They still look ridiculous though, and I highly doubt most people would know that the bulge is for iconic purposes since most people have no idea what a Holden is outside of Australia. I would wager it was there to allow more air flow, like most vents. Blitz, Amuse, and Mine's are all companies gearheads will have at least heard of before and know what they do, unless of course they are biased. A smaller scale company in Australia isn't going to make the world's radar, especially when the world's car guy don't get all excited over a Holden.

You don't seem to have a grasp on Japanese tuning culture, not all car culture will be the same. Stickers and body kits are what Japanese tuners do, but that doesn't mean their cars aren't stupidly fast. Respect them or not, they are still going to be fast.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Yeah, that bonnet bulge, it's tacky as hell. The fact that it pays tribute to the ugliest car in Australian history doesn't make it any less tacky.

Are there any performance figures around for the 470kw engine equipped cars? Admittedly I based my "epitome of HSV slower than GTR" comment based on the W427, so I could be wrong.
But yeah, do you have any figures backing up the "will eat the GTR in a drag race." I'm not saying it wouldn't, but do you have any figures backing this up or are you just basing this on your completely unbiased, unopinionated, thoughts?

With respect to the R35, you have to keep in mind Nissan released it with a so-called uncrackable ECU that throws check engine lights if you change the wheels. That's what these guys are working with, and they've already cracked it and are moving on to bigger and better things.
The LS series V8's have been around, with people modifying them, for how long?

And oh yeah, the Japanese tuners have outlandish body kits because, guess what, people buy them, and they're primarily in the business of making money, not gaining mad respectz.
And, with respect to most of the tuners, the cars with the big wings actually need them, they see racetrack time. A lot.

Ugly says the Lancer owner, boxiest and ugliest sports car of the '90s.
I did say that the Walkinshaw would need to gain traction, however Wheels (I think it was them, or Motor) have clocked low 4sec 0-100, and be serious, 470kw stomps 370kw from a rolling start any day.

They still look ridiculous though, and I highly doubt most people would know that the bulge is for iconic purposes since most people have no idea what a Holden is outside of Australia. I would wager it was there to allow more air flow, like most vents. Blitz, Amuse, and Mine's are all companies gearheads will have at least heard of before and know what they do, unless of course they are biased. A smaller scale company in Australia isn't going to make the world's radar, especially when the world's car guy don't get all excited over a Holden.

You don't seem to have a grasp on Japanese tuning culture, not all car culture will be the same. Stickers and body kits are what Japanese tuners do, but that doesn't mean their cars aren't stupidly fast. Respect them or not, they are still going to be fast.

No, they look good, tough, and as for the rest of the world, why do I care? Rest of the world proves to me over and over that I couldn't care less for what they want in a car, plus it's a good thing then that Walkinshaw Performance is for the Australian market only.

I didn't bother responding to the rest of your posts because they seem irrelevant.

 

[slidesquad#1]

Ugly says the Lancer owner, boxiest and ugliest sports car of the '90s.

Haha I wish, the GTS-R was built in the '90's wasn't it?

But yeah,

vs

Yeah, I stand by my comments. And I don't have the Lancer because of it's looks. Although I think you might find that more people prefer the Evo aesthetically than the Walky.


Edit: this is retardedly off topic. I'm gonna blame GOK and his lack of a single credible factor in support of the GTR.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I hope you got that picture from my album. But look at how muscular it is, and funny thing is, it was its crazy appearance that made it so popular. It does seem to be hit or miss with most people though- hit for me.

Hang on.............you're not blaiming me? This feels wierd, almost like I'm accepted for once.

 

[Jim Prower]

Good god, the Aussie had to go and eliminate the R8 from the conversation altogether. Way to trail offtopic.

By the way, Kana, quit forcing the tuner issue. Nissan is trying to shed that image, make this a truly world-class sports car. I think the fact it's been difficult to modify is part of that: it's already so highly tuned (much like a BMW M-car) that it can't take, and doesn't need, much more.

And you'll turn people off.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Hang on.............you're not blaiming me? This feels wierd, almost like I'm accepted for once.

Good god, the Aussie had to go and eliminate the R8 from the conversation altogether. Way to trail offtopic.

You said you didn't hate me, yeah right.

 

[Jim Prower]

I don't hate YOU...but I get tired of what you do, especially when you take things off-topic like this. This is GT-R vs R8. There's no Walkinshaw Commodores anywhere in sight.

Instead of that, you could go through the R8 tuner cars...

ABT R8

Kicherer R8

SKN R8

(And, yes, I chose these because they correlate to the GT-Rs shown earlier: tuned with ridiculous bodykit/increased performance with stock body/stickers all over the place)

 

[Tornado]

Its too bad the wheels on the ABt suck so bad.

 

[Muzaffar]

Uh..... you forgot the MTM R8.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3158396&postcount=33

 

[Jim Prower]

So, have I made my point? There's just as many people looking to tune the R8 as there is the GT-R. So one can't discount one for being a tuner car when the other is, as well.

 

[Tornado]

But one is 1337 JDM tyte, yo!

 

[Jim Prower]

Doesn't mean it's not a world-class sports car. The GT-R is a bit more than what it's predecessors were: modified 2-door Hardtops. That they kept some of that hardtop spirit while turning it into a true standalone sports car is quite an accomplishment. (By that, I mean it's not based on a lesser model.)

 

[Wolfe]

nd 4 holden spd, the americans tack superfluous aerodynamic/aesthetic packages on their cars, the Germans tack superfluous aerodynamic/aesthetic packages on their cars, the Australians tack superfluous aerodynamic/aesthetic packages on their cars, the French tack superfluous aerodynamic/aesthetic packages on their cars, the Brits tack superfluous aerodynamic/aesthetic packages on their cars, the Swedish tack superfluous aerodynamic/aesthetic packages on their cars, the Koreans tack superfluous aerodynamic/aesthetic packages on their cars, and the Japanese tack superfluous aerodynamic/aesthetic packages on their cars.

Besides, there's no such thing as "performance rice." Just "damn that's ugly," if you happen to be of that opinion. Those GT-Rs are as much "rice" as your Holdens are economy subcompacts. There's no subjectivity. It's just the wrong term.

 

[forza2.0]

Just one vote in it! How close. Surely whichever car wins this will win the final!

 

[homeforsummer]

That depends on whether people get sucked in by the whole supercar thing or not. I like both these cars but I probably won't vote for either in the final if the 500 gets through.

 

[forza2.0]

well given the 500 is only available in europe and the fact that this website is mainly made of american members the car that wins will be a fast one.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

well given the 500 is only available in europe and the fact that this website is mainly made of american members the car that wins will be a fast one.

There's a good number of Americans voting for the 500 in the other thread.

 

[gator of kana]

-> ...

^ I've heard from sources that the GT-R was inspired by these:

^ True JDM heritage. 👍

Now that's what I'm talking about. I love cars even more that were inspired by anime and why, because I love anime. That's Gundam and that totally rocks dude. 👍👍👍

 

[homeforsummer]

well given the 500 is only available in europe and the fact that this website is mainly made of american members the car that wins will be a fast one.

That means nothing. As ROAD_DOGG said, many of the American members have voted for the 500 themselves. Regardless of whether the car is European I think most members on this site have a fairly good general knowledge of cars all over the world so the fact it's market specific isn't really relevant.

And saying that the American members will only vote for the fast car is generalising quite a bit.

 

[forza2.0]

That means nothing. As ROAD_DOGG said, many of the American members have voted for the 500 themselves. Regardless of whether the car is European I think most members on this site have a fairly good general knowledge of cars all over the world so the fact it's market specific isn't really relevant.

And saying that the American members will only vote for the fast car is generalising quite a bit.

generalising yes, but then again their roads are dominated by big cars. Cars such as the 500 would be considered as tiny over there.

 

[gator of kana]

And saying that the American members will only vote for the fast car is generalising quite a bit.

The reason why Americans like fast cars so much is because we hardly ever see a even sporty car in traffic. If you were in America you see that everybody pretty much drives the same thing which is boring. What cars you ask, Well there are plenty of Dodge Rams, Neons, Calibers. Many Chevrolet Impalas, Cobalts. A lot of Corollas, Camrys, Prius. Honda Civic sedans and Accords. Ford Focus, Mustangs. And LOTS and LOTS of SUVs. homeforsummer you should be lucky that you are in the UK because the cars you see everybody drive down there is much better and dynamic than it is here in America

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

The reason why Americans like fast cars so much is because we hardly ever see a even sporty car in traffic. If you were in America you see that everybody pretty much drives the same thing which is boring. What cars you ask, Well there are plenty of Dodge Rams, Neons, Calibers. Many Chevrolet Impalas, Cobalts. A lot of Corollas, Camrys, Prius. Honda Civic sedans and Accords. Ford Focus, Mustangs. And LOTS and LOTS of SUVs. homeforsummer you should be lucky that you are in the UK because the cars you see everybody drive down there is much better and dynamic than it is here in America

I don't know what to say...other than

*facepalm*

 

[///M-Spec]

Well, look at it this way: if you get the base model of either, you save...

$112,500 - $76,640 = $35,680 - That's an entry-level luxury car, there.

Fully loaded?
$143,750 - $79,090 = $64,660 - That's almost...ALMOST...another GT-R!!! DEFINITELY a Corvette, and some spare change. In fact, I'm curious....

$143,750 - $76,640 = $67,110!!!

I mean, come on, you lose cutting edge style, gain performance, and a bunch of money, perhaps even for a second car. What's not to love?

((All prices derived using manufacturer's Configurators.))

Also, to counter GoK, You've got Forza2.0.

Of all the arguments against the R8, I think Jim's is the most compelling. It is one expensive car, with some stupidly expensive options. You'd think that for $112k, Audi wouldn't have the nerve to nickle-and-dime you for the following items:

Metallic Paint $650
Auto dimming folding mirrors (comes in a package with rear-view
Leather Seats $2,000
R-tronic $9,000

When I first voted for the R8, I was thinking it was around 100k. The fact that a reasonably equipped R8 is stickering closer to 120k while a fully loaded GT-R is about $82k is making me think about changing my vote.

Is an R8 better than a GT-R plus a G35 'beater' car? Toughie.

The reason why Americans like fast cars so much is because we hardly ever see a even sporty car in traffic. If you were in America you see that everybody pretty much drives the same thing which is boring. What cars you ask, Well there are plenty of Dodge Rams, Neons, Calibers. Many Chevrolet Impalas, Cobalts. A lot of Corollas, Camrys, Prius. Honda Civic sedans and Accords. Ford Focus, Mustangs. And LOTS and LOTS of SUVs. homeforsummer you should be lucky that you are in the UK because the cars you see everybody drive down there is much better and dynamic than it is here in America

Try making your way out of Danville, VA once in a while and you'll see that there are many, many nice cars in America.

Just today, I've seen a Porsche 997S, Audi S5, Lexus IS-F, a Delorean, about 20-30 BMW 3s/Audi A4s, x2 G35s, more Evos than I can remember, a Chevelle SS.. and that's just TODAY. I'll probably see at least 3 cars on the way home that would easily be worth posting in the DYSATG thread.


M

 

[Kent]

I don't really think the price of these two can be entirely fair. In fact, based the mark-ups expected for US bound GTRs the R8 isn't really much worse (if any). So with that in mind, I don't think comparing the prices of these cars is fair. Although there is a place for the price to be discussed, I don't think it should carry the weight of swinging decisions in a situation like this contest.

Of course, that's just my take on it and there's nothing to say all of you need to feel as I do.

 

[CyborgGT]

GT-R. I knew this was going to be a very close poll, but I didn't vote for the R8 because it didn't live up to what I thought it was going to be pre-production. I was thinking it was going to be a real supercar, not a... 911-rivalling sports car. It's a shame the V12 car is so ugly. The GT-R on the other hand is an amazing technical feat.

 

[Moglet]

BMW 3s/Audi A4s

Are those sorts of cars really worthy of a mention if you spot them in the US then? Over here they're everywhere!

 

[Prosthetic]

Are those sorts of cars really worthy of a mention if you spot them in the US then? Over here they're everywhere!

NO! They are everywhere here too.

And I really don't see your point GOK, go into any city in the states and you will see good stuff every second. Living in Marin I see KIDS yes KIDS driving super fly, exciting cars. There parents even more fly. RS4's, RS6's, E92 M3's, SL 65's, C63 AMG's, DB9's, Lotus's, Corvettes, R8's etc... They are all over!

 

[///M-Spec]

Are those sorts of cars really worthy of a mention if you spot them in the US then? Over here they're everywhere!

No. In fact, in any large metropolitan area in the US (NYC, Miami, LA, Atlanta, Seattle, Dallas, etc) 3-series are so common and ubiquitous, they are practically invisible... just like they are in Europe.

Which is part of my point.

A 328i is "much better and dynamic" than the average anonymous sedan/SUV you see in 'middle' America. But yet in any urban area with even a moderate amount of wealth, a 328 may as well be a Civic. "Middle America" is not ALL of America. Not by a long shot.


M

 

[Kent]

Are those sorts of cars really worthy of a mention if you spot them in the US then? Over here they're everywhere!

Just to nip this in the bud and keep things on topic.
Wikipedia links to this file...
PDF File, BMW's 2007 annual report

To sum up the report for the topic at hand I've made a little picture.


Looks like BMWs could be more common in the US than some members thought.

Btw, the funny part of this is that Moglet is addressing a moderator who drives a rather nice BMW.