2008 Brazilian Grand Prix

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Massa was very dignified at the end of that race, I can only imagine how gutted he must have felt and in a race this close it's a shame someone has to lose but I'd very happy Hamilton has won it. I was screaming at the TV on thoes last couple of laps and when he overtook Glock right at the end I couldn't believe it at first that he'd made it. I don't tihnk a season can get any closer. I do firmly believe that Hamiolton deseved the title, as good as Massa was particulalry in the latter half of the season Hamilton would have won the championship a lot easier if certain decisions hadn't so oddly gone against him and in one or two cases, oddly for Massa. At least thoes decisions didn't decide the title and instead we can appreciate what was a brilliant season in F1.

How?

Hamilton only "ifs" of the season is the Spa race. But what if Ferrari didn't had:

1 - the stupid lollypop incident, in a race where Massa was dominating;
2 - blown engine at Budapeste, with 2 laps to go and a confortable race;
3 - a refuel problem at Montreal, causing Massa to stop twice in a race that he should have gotten a podium;
4 - and at last, a terrible decision by Ferrari to call Massa at the wrong time in Monaco, in a race where, once again, he had a comfortable lead.

Don't get me wrong, Lewis is a great driver and deserves what he got, but Massa would have at least 10 more points in 20 out of 21 chances. Even if you discard most things, the lollypop will always be remembered as the mistake that cost the season.

I hope Ferrari learned something this season, because they surely let this one get away.

Anyway, if 2009 is anything like this one, we are in for a treat. 👍
 
So no one's going to mention the fact that without the spurious steward's penalties (there's only been one, IMHO, that he actually deserved, and there have been one or two issued against other drivers that they didn't deserve that benefitted Massa), Lewis would still have a lead over a Massa with no mechanical trouble?

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An absolutely fantastic race. I spent it all at the house without internet, and I couldn't post updates about it... but apparently everyone else was... freaking fantastic, nail-biting, stroke-inducing, edge-of-your-seat stuff.

There are a few factors that played against Lewis... in fact... a whole manure-load of factors conspiring to make this race a repeat of last year. The rain caught out all the front-runners... forcing a change back to slicks at an inopportune time. Lewis's pitlane incident with Jarno Trulli (let's see... penalty for an unsafe release, would that be? Ah... if only Lewis were in a Ferrari... :lol: ) was one of those points at which it could have all gone south.

In fact, the Toyotas were a thorn in Lewis' side, all day... with Jarno holding him up a while and then Timo Glock pushing him hard when he should have been concentrating on lap times.

But he had a hard time making those laps come. The reported lack of downforce makes things all suddenly seem so clear... Lewis was clearly locking his brakes into the first corner lap after lap, when the other front-runner weren't... and the car looked extremely squirrely at times. I suppose McLaren was taking no chances at all with their engine... tuning it to make it safely to the end of the race... and making up for limiting the power by running less wing than the other guys... it was a very fine balancing act... but it could have all gone so horribly wrong... and almost did. Hekki, for one, just seemed to drop completely off the radar after trading punches early with Alonso...

And Lewis, after shucking off Glock and making an insane pass on Fisichella, had to contend with a resurgent Robert Kubica... who was visibly pissed at being a lap down, and looking to show that, despite his earlier car troubles, he still had the speed to stay in contention...

These factors worked in favor of Sebastian Vettel, who shoved Hekki off track early on and up into the top three, then fell back due to a fuel gamble that didn't pay off... He managed to get back up Lewis's backside and was finally able to get around Lewis' visibly unsteady McLaren when Kubica cut between them. It was an awesome sight, two wet weather specialists going at it like rabid dogs, with a streak of white and blue cutting between them... Kubica's interference could have gone either way... but it went against Lewis, in the end.

At the front, Massa was doing absolutely everything right... Ferrari had the race in the bag, though Fernando Alonso spoiled the chances of a Ferrari one-two. Alonso's early pit-stop gamble paid off handsomely, and Kimi Raikonnen did his best impression of Rubens Barrichelo... a steady metronome behind his team-mate.

It was an amazing end to the race... and, fittingly, it was the Toyotas, who had made Lewis's race so difficult, that opened the door to him, in the end.

I wouldn't get too cozy, if I were you. If I'm right, McLaren's number is up: every year there's a team that forgets to develop a new car. Sure, they bring out a new chassis, but it's terrible, and McLaren have managed to go a few years without doing it.

Like in the year after Mikka's last championship? You must be praying pretty hard for that to happen... :lol:

---

It'll be a fantastic season next year... with Toyota, STR and BMW showing excellent pace, Renault a potential championship contender, McLaren not suffering the same money problems as they did this year, and Ferrari now possessing two world-class drivers... I just can't wait!
 
Oh god..... I have been away for 12 hours and its already on page 18? :eek:

Anyways, I guess that was easily one of the most exciting race ever with the rain at the start (and near the end), the pit stop gamble, Kubica's lunatic run near the end (which causes Hamilton to slip and and let Vettel through) and Glock's sudden slowdown all make that race oh so suspense!!! :D

Congrats on Hamilton becoming the 2008 World Champion, and one of the youngest champions ever! Sad to see Massa came close, but I guess he should toughen up and prepare for next year. 👍 Both drivers could have clinched the title earlier but with controversies and misfortunes, those all add up to what an amazing season this is.....

Not going to comment on anything else, as I guess all of you guys had already said it for me. :sly:
 
Glock's sudden slowdown :


Hmm..do you really feel that glock suddenly slowed for lewis? Being that he was on drys on increasingly wet conditions, anyone overtaking on inters could make it look that way I would imagine.
 
Hmm..do you really feel that glock suddenly slowed for lewis? Being that he was on drys on increasingly wet conditions, anyone overtaking on inters could make it look that way I would imagine.
Well I didn't want to make a improper guesses since I didn't read all the posts prior to that. After looking at the thread though, I do agree with the others on why Glock was losing so much time on that last time. 👍

But one thing baffles me is that why did Kubica tried to unlap himself near the end? He was all the way down on the grid ever since that first pit stop of his, and his pace suddenly increases when Hamilton lapped him and tried to overtake Sutil. Did he try to pressure Hamilton into a mistake? Would be interesting to know why he did.........
 
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I have a feeling, Robert was trying to prove a point... his championship hopes were in tatters because of that start-line fiasco... but he had a strong package, and he wanted to show it off.
 
Hmm..do you really feel that glock suddenly slowed for lewis? Being that he was on drys on increasingly wet conditions, anyone overtaking on inters could make it look that way I would imagine.

Yes, Glock's 2nd to last lap was 1'28, he was doing 1'18 before. So he lost ten seconds on the 2nd to last lap and around 15/18 seconds on the last lap with a worsening track with kubica and co storming up he could do nothing but let them pass or cause chaos. If we got some shots of Glock with constant sector times popping up on screen like we used to have years ago with IBM, (please bring this back BBC) people could of seen what was happening, but it was frantic ending with Massa Vettel and Hamilton in the shots.

A fantastic ending with no suspicion, well done Lewis. Mclaren made the right call for once.
 
How?

Hamilton only "ifs" of the season is the Spa race. But what if Ferrari didn't had:

1 - the stupid lollypop incident, in a race where Massa was dominating;
2 - blown engine at Budapeste, with 2 laps to go and a confortable race;
3 - a refuel problem at Montreal, causing Massa to stop twice in a race that he should have gotten a podium;
4 - and at last, a terrible decision by Ferrari to call Massa at the wrong time in Monaco, in a race where, once again, he had a comfortable lead.

Don't get me wrong, Lewis is a great driver and deserves what he got, but Massa would have at least 10 more points in 20 out of 21 chances. Even if you discard most things, the lollypop will always be remembered as the mistake that cost the season.

I hope Ferrari learned something this season, because they surely let this one get away.

Anyway, if 2009 is anything like this one, we are in for a treat. 👍


I think you're underestimating the events of Singapore. Massa wouldnt have won that race without the lollipop accident he wouldve finished 3rd behind Hamilton because he still wouldve been stuck behind DC much like Hamilton was. Those points would've allowed him to win the championship now but Massa would not have won that race.

Also Massa had gotten a puncture in Singapore either way so without the safety car it would've been Hamilton that would've won and Massa would have probably finished 4-5 at most anyway.
 
I'm getting rather tired of all the people bashing and looking with suspicion upon Glock here... There is no way a driver, oh I'm sorry, any driver in the world could only have lost 5 seconds over a lap in the wet on dry weather tires. I can only praise Glock for his performance by keeping the car on the track instead of spinning it like countless drivers have done countless times this season. Nothing to investigate, only to congratulate Glock for the giving us the most exiting, yet sad also ending of a season ever.

Also, slapshot for Kubica. He had no right interferring with Hamilton and Vettel there, whether it made it more exiting or not, he was far too aggressive for a lapped driver.

But let's congratulate the two most awesome drivers of the season, Massa and Hamilton. I think Massa showed the better performance in the wet yesterday as it seemed Hamilton was on the edge of losing it more often, Massa's driving was perfect in all ways. He even got me emotional when walking up the podium, greeting his fans with tears and the hand to the heart. Pure driver spirit and still my favourit driver 👍
 
I'm getting rather tired of all the people bashing and looking with suspicion upon Glock here... There is no way a driver, oh I'm sorry, any driver in the world could only have lost 5 seconds over a lap in the wet on dry weather tires. I can only praise Glock for his performance by keeping the car on the track instead of spinning it like countless drivers have done countless times this season. Nothing to investigate, only to congratulate Glock for the giving us the most exiting, yet sad also ending of a season ever.
Does it really matter? I mean, what would the FIA do? Penalise Glock? That wouldn't change a thing. Penalise Hamilton? He didn't do anything wrong. Adjust the standings so that Glock finished higher than Hamilton? Not only would it reward Glock for doing the wrong thing, it wouldn't change the standings because Hamilton would have beaten Massa on a countback (though I think a countback should go to the person with the most recent win if the number of wins are tied, as it would make the drivers fight until the end instead of settling for a lower place).
 
I think Massa had more wins than Hamilton this season, therefore, the Brazilian would have won the countback. Hamilton actually needed to become 5th.
 
Does it really matter? I mean, what would the FIA do? Penalise Glock? That wouldn't change a thing. Penalise Hamilton? He didn't do anything wrong. Adjust the standings so that Glock finished higher than Hamilton? Not only would it reward Glock for doing the wrong thing, it wouldn't change the standings because Hamilton would have beaten Massa on a countback (though I think a countback should go to the person with the most recent win if the number of wins are tied, as it would make the drivers fight until the end instead of settling for a lower place).

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here?

Penalize Hamilton? What did he do wrong? I didn't know drivers were being penalized for driving the perfect race. Penalize Glock? What did he do wrong? Having the balls for keeping the car out, and nearly clinching a 4th place from 10th starting place? :dunce:
 
Hekki, for one, just seemed to drop completely off the radar after trading punches early with Alonso...

Oh, Heikki was a whole other story. Somewhere in the middle of the race, just after Hamilton stopped (and therefore was 7th), Heikki was briefly visible from Vettel's (or Alonso's) onboards as the two were chasing each other, and he was almost stationary in the middle of the same straight were Hamilton had his electronic-problems last year. I did wonder, though, because he then got back up to speed - behind Hamilton...

Also, slapshot for Kubica. He had no right interferring with Hamilton and Vettel there, whether it made it more exiting or not, he was far too aggressive for a lapped driver.

A lapped driver has every right to unlap himself, if the car is fast enough. In this case, it was - he overtook Vettel and Hamilton, and a few corners later he was well ahead of them. I recall watching a tape, I think of Donington '84, when Rosberg's Williams was lapped by the field after a collision with Piquet (sounds slightly too familiar :p), but he fought back to regain that lap and finished third.

Not only would it reward Glock for doing the wrong thing, it wouldn't change the standings because Hamilton would have beaten Massa on a countback (though I think a countback should go to the person with the most recent win if the number of wins are tied, as it would make the drivers fight until the end instead of settling for a lower place).

Nope, Massa was equal with Hamilton on both wins and second places going into the final race - whichever way, a countback win would've been Massa's.
 
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I wouldn't get too cozy, if I were you. If I'm right, McLaren's number is up: every year there's a team that forgets to develop a new car. Sure, they bring out a new chassis, but it's terrible, and McLaren have managed to go a few years without doing it. Once you start dominating, the only way to go is down. If Ferrari can do it, so can McLaren.

I know, I pointed that out in both the Chinese and Singapore GP threads:

Roo
The fact they've managed to string 2 competitive seasons together is remarkable in itself.

and

But Hamilton is gonna have to drive from 16th to 1st in five laps, go at least two seconds per lap faster than the rest in an average car (as average as the Renault was compared to MSC's Ferrari) and really own it in rain to make me stand corrected. He's got three more years to do it. :)

Roo
Given McLaren's record of stringing more than 2 competitive seasons on the bounce, that's not an entirely unforseeable set of circumstances within 3 years.

In any case, you have to go back to 1973 to find the last time a Brit won the championship more than once. Hamilton is our 4th champion since then.
 
A lapped driver has every right to unlap himself, if the car is fast enough. In this case, it was - he overtook Vettel and Hamilton, and a few corners later he was well ahead of them. I recall watching a tape, I think of Donington '84, when Rosberg's Williams was lapped by the field after a collision with Piquet (sounds slightly too familiar :p), but he fought back to regain that lap and finished third.

Kubica had absolutely nothing to gain from it. He should have kept out of the way of the guys fighting for the Championship.
 
Um, Canada?

Luckily timed mistake at Monaco? Deserved penalty at magny cours? Getting through a set of tires on turn 1 at Fuji? Mistake at Silverstone qualifying? Monza qualifying? the list goes on.
 
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Two words... Holy crap! That was an astonishing final race of the season.
The last few laps were just unbearable to watch (I was shouting at the TV, at 4:30am), I couldn't even think of a better result.

Brilliant job, Hamilton! Thanks Glock! Thanks for an intense ending, Vettel! I'm lost for words... 👍👍
 
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Kudos to Massa, he took it like a man.



:(
 
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Aye. Two-three months of watching monstrous breedings between the '09 and '08 cars, then gradually moving to the '09 designs late January.. :(
 
By the way, what the hell happened with Piquet? Was that a noob spin or was it a problem with his car? I hope it was the latter otherwise his chances of getting a seat next season are definitely over...

And about the crowd booing Hamilton, I saw that coming long before the race. Unfortunately people over here act like that, it's really a shame.
 
By the way, what the hell happened with Piquet? Was that a noob spin or was it a problem with his car? I hope it was the latter otherwise his chances of getting a seat next season are definitely over...

TV over here didn't really follow the incident. However, when it showed a replay of the Rosberg, Coulthard, Nakajima accident from different angles, you could briefly see Piquet's Renault suddenly snap right coming out of turn 3. It looked more like a suspension failure than just losing the back end in the damp. Perhaps he got tagged at some point in the first or second turns and something broke?
 
Aye. Two-three months of watching monstrous breedings between the '09 and '08 cars, then gradually moving to the '09 designs late January.. :(

Ain't it just lovely, I can't wait! :trouble:
 
I was unable to watch to live race, but when I saw the replay, WHAT THE 🤬 !?!?!?! Massa had it, he won the race, the whole of Brazil was cheering, everyone was so happy! Then the UNEXPECTED happened.., :grumpy::grumpy::grumpy:

@ jacoja08 - yeah, thanks a lot Glock!! We really appreciate it.., 👍👍

I just want to beat the crap out of him now, after I've seen "that"..,

do you guys think he slowed down on purpose?? Or.....

still, an unacceptable result for me.., Massa is the champion, we all know that.., :)
 
do you guys think he slowed down on purpose?? Or.....

Nope...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7705641.stm

The McLaren guys knew that Glock was catchable, and hence why Hamilton was well advised not to throw it all away in trying to retake Vettel...

Also, remember this: If Glock had stopped, how many points would he have scored? The fact that he stayed out won Toyota three points they wouldn't have got otherwise - and the fact that both Toyotas did near-identical lap times on the last lap should be enough evidence to silence the conspiracy rubbish once and for all...
 
Kubica had absolutely nothing to gain from it. He should have kept out of the way of the guys fighting for the Championship.
I'm a bit surprised at you saying this. Surely, once you're lapped, you should always strive to get back onto the lead lap? If there was chaos ahead on the last lap, he could have gained positions. If he was lapped, he couldn't have gained anything.

It's not his concern what any championship contenders are doing. As long as he didn't hit them, he was fine. Lewis ran wide when Kubica passed him, but that looked like Lewis' fault as Kubica was well past him by that point.

Also, remember this: If Glock had stopped, how many points would he have scored? The fact that he stayed out won Toyota three points they wouldn't have got otherwise - and the fact that both Toyotas did near-identical lap times on the last lap should be enough evidence to silence the conspiracy rubbish once and for all...
Wouldn't bet on it. Reasoned arguments are nothing in the face of a conspiracy theory....
 
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Ok, season ended and Hamilton is champion. As I wrote before, he and Massa are very evenly matched and even if you can blame Ferrari for the loss of many points, the truth is that Massa himself made a few costly errors this season. So, either of them would be a worthy champion, but this time lady luck smiled on Lewis. And he is a worthy champion, no doubt about that.

Funny is that Ferrari, the main guilty of Massa losing the Drivers championship, was in contrast the main beneficiary of the work of both their drivers to win the Constructors championship. I guess Massa deserved more the title he lost than Ferrari deserves the title it won.

If nothing changes, Hamilton and Ferrari will again be favourites next season for their respective championships. Hamilton has nothing to fear from Kovalainen, and the Kimi/Massa combo will at the same time split victories (and points) between them and ensure that Ferrari will win another Constructor's crown.

However ... if Renault continues being this competitive, we can have Alonso (also the only top driver in his team) having a go at a third Championship. And we never know what kind of results BMW will get next season. Or Toyota.

It's hard for me to pick 2008's best F1 driver. So, I pick 5 of them. Hamilton, Massa, Alonso, Kubica and Vettel. Sorting their order in this ranking is hard but, if I had to pick who do I think is THE BEST among them, I think Alonso takes it, even if he had a few "offs" this season (Monaco and Canada come to mind).

To finish this sort of my personal "wrap up", I'd also like to mention that I feel sorry for Bourdais if he doesn't keep a F1 racing seat next season.
 
With regard to all the guessing and speculation about what could have happened, remember that F1 is "if" backwards.

© Murray Walker
 
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