2008 Fuji GP

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Alex.
And now lewis thinks Massa deliberately spun him? Dont make me laugh Lewis! All the drivers know how fragile the cars and and will never opt to make any form of contact over not making it. Massa was steering as much left as possible, following the inside kerb and made no purposeful attempt to spin hamilton.
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Of course he spun him deliberately.
Yeah, he was turning as much left as possible, but he was off the track and therefor had no grip whatsoever and went straight into Lewis. All drivers may know how fragile the cars are, but even more people know there's no grip when you go off the track.
 
I'm talking about 2007 /2008 seasons and present time, I know Michael Schumacher Has made plenty of contact as had Senna, but remember that it cost them a championship at least once each and nearly lost schumacher a second with Damon hill, had he not broken Damon's suspension.

Racer_LP:
If he went straight into lewis because he had no grip, how is that deliberate? If you have no grip you dont have that much of a choice where you are going.
 
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Alex.
I'm talking about 2007 /2008 seasons and present time, I know Michael Schumacher Has made plenty of contact as had Senna, but remember that it cost them dearly at least once each.
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In Michael's case it also directly won him 1994 drivers title.

As for the Massa vs. Hamilton incident. After watching it over and over again, i don't believe what Massa did was intentional - but he was at fault for the collision and at least deserved the drive through he received.
 
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JohnBM01
It looks like the man in Japan was Fernando Alonso as the Grand Prix of Japan concludes. My congratulations to Fernando Alonso of Spain. Alonso could sweep this three-race series in Asia with a win at China next weekend.

I was looking around for past F1 action around Fuji. The one video I saw online was sadly a tragic race as it was where Gilles Villeneuve was killed in the race. Here's the first five minutes of the race in which we lost Gilles Villeneuve in a vicious crash. I'm only offering this video to show off F1 racing at Fuji before the recent revival of Fuji hosting F1 for the first time in 30 years. Have a look at what F1 at Fuji was like before the track hosted the F1 Grand Prix by checking out this video:



This was the 1977 F1 Grand Prix. The cars and the track have come along better over the years, but that's what F1 was like at Fuji in the past. Well... bring on China! Bring on the Shanghai Circuit! We got a World Championship to decide!
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I suggest you look up the history books again. Gilles Villeneuve's first season was in 1977 and he died at Zolder in 1982 during qualifying.
 
Whether he was on full lock or not makes no difference as to whether he might or might not have deliberately tried to knock him off, he went into a space that was clearly too small for the car, that's the point.
 
TheCracker
In Michael's case it also directly won him 1994 drivers title.

As for the Massa vs. Hamilton incident. After watching it over and over again, i don't believe what Massa did was intentional - but he was at fault for the collision and at least deserved the drive through he received.
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yes, he was at fault, but I'm not having these guys slating me because they thought it was on purpose, it just wasn't.
 
Alex.
yes, he was at fault, but I'm not having these guys slating me because they thought it was on purpose, it just wasn't.
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No one is slating on you at all, I in fact passed no comment on the actual Massa vs Hamilton collision.

What I did do was point out quite clearly that drivers have in the past deliberately taken other drivers out, as I (and the evidence) do not agree with your claim that no driver would do this. As TheCracker has also pointed out, this kind of action has won people championships in the past.

I would also advise that you learn to differentiate between people disagreeing with what you are saying and people slating you. That I disagree with you on this point has nothing at all to do with my opinion of you at all.


Regards

Scaff
 
Good point Scaff 👍 No-one's having a go at you Alex, just disagreeing with you...

... I totally don't buy the "deliberate" thing either - I think Hamilton is sore about coming off badly, and I think he's way off the mark to accuse Massa of such a thing. Massa made a mistake and, like Hamilton before him on the previous lap, tried to correct that mistake by being impulsive and doing something stupid. I don't accept that there is enough evidence to say that Massa deliberately sought to hit Hamilton, let alone ruin his race.
 
Honestly, I don't think Massa hit Hamilton on purpose either. I think it was just a simple, yet stupid fail at driving. It's not like Massa hasn't proven he's capable of that...

On another note, I know that drivers have taken others out deliberately before, yet, in those situations they usually had a direct advantage. Since Hamilton still is ahead of Massa in the championship, he wouldn't benefit at all from it.
 
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^^^what he said 👍

Prost, Senna and Schumacher did what they did because if both cars DNF'ed they had more points than the victims of their stunts. Prost and Senna became even, Damon Hill suffered one of the greatest injustices in the history of F1 and only the lucky Jacques Villeneuve survived these dirty tactics.
 
mustang245
and who says he's a poor sport? The Spaniard let Hamilton unlap himself on last lap @ Fuji... Bravisimo! J
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Alonso did a great job at Fuji. However, I don't think he was being a good sport by letting Hamilton pass, I think he was making sure he didn't have his race ruined with less than half a lap to go. It was the smart thing to do, but I think his motivation was to secure the win, not be be a good sport.

Good race by Kubica too, nice racing between him and Kimi near the end.

I don't know if Hamilton really deserved a penalty, but that was a really boneheaded move on the first lap. Massa's was at least as bad and did deserve a penaly. I think that I personally would be a bit more lenient on incidents in the first corner unless they are obviously intentional. As for Massa vs. Bordais, that looked like a racing incident to me, not worthy of a penalty. But what do I know, I am not a steward, just a fan.
 
I swear there was a similar incident to the Bourdais/Massa one earlier in the race. Can't remember if it was as close, and I've forgotten who was involved but I'm sure that wasn't even investigated.
 
KSaiyu
I swear there was a similar incident to the Bourdais/Massa one earlier in the race. Can't remember if it was as close, and I've forgotten who was involved but I'm sure that wasn't even investigated.
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Yup, when Piquet left the pitlane, he had to defend from Bourdais instantly:
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peterjford
Alonso did a great job at Fuji. However, I don't think he was being a good sport by letting Hamilton pass, I think he was making sure he didn't have his race ruined with less than half a lap to go. It was the smart thing to do, but I think his motivation was to secure the win, not be be a good sport.

Good race by Kubica too, nice racing between him and Kimi near the end.

I don't know if Hamilton really deserved a penalty, but that was a really boneheaded move on the first lap. Massa's was at least as bad and did deserve a penaly. I think that I personally would be a bit more lenient on incidents in the first corner unless they are obviously intentional. As for Massa vs. Bordais, that looked like a racing incident to me, not worthy of a penalty. But what do I know, I am not a steward, just a fan.
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Yes, you're right... Alonso wanted to protect his victory. I found it highly interesting Alonso had a chance to lap Hamilton. Go Nando! Go Massa!
 
Nevertheless, Michael Schumacher has shown that even when you know it's best to let the guy behind you pass, you can try to maintain your position and totally screw up in the process.
 
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I'm starting to get annoyed with the FIA now. IMO there should have been no penalties yesterday at all, on board video of Massa touching Hamilton would help me confirm this but I highly doubt Massa intentionally hit Hamilton. And Hamilton didnt deserve a penalty because he already got his just deserve when he spun. As for the Bourdais penalty that is blatantly the FIA wanting a bigger climax to the end of the season, which is extremely unfair on Bourdais.

Congratulations to Alonso, he has earned back some of the respect I once had for him. I actually rather see him do better then Hamilton, because Hamilton is a bit too arrogent IMO. He has said things in the past which made me think this eg; "no one will ever pass me on the outside again" and the way he shoved Kovalienen out of the way at the start yesterday was unacceptable. If Kovalienen wasnt such a nice guy I'm sure he would have thrown an Alonso-esque fit by now too.
 
GT4 genius
Congratulations to Alonso, he has earned back some of the respect I once had for him. I actually rather see him do better then Hamilton, because Hamilton is a bit too arrogent IMO. He has said things in the past which made me think this eg; "no one will ever pass me on the outside again" and the way he shoved Kovalienen out of the way at the start yesterday was unacceptable. If Kovalienen wasnt such a nice guy I'm sure he would have thrown an Alonso-esque fit by now too.
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Lol, and Alonso isn't arrogant?
Nah, I agree, Alonso has that lovable angry character about him. Hamilton is almost exactly the same as Alonso except for this, he doesn't have the raw outbursts and for some odd reason this detracts from him.
 
www.sportinglife.com
So, Alonso says publicly he intends to help Massa win the Championship? I wonder how he'll do that? Put laxative in Hamiltons drink?
Also
www.guardian.co.uk
Alonso gave further evidence of his animosity towards Hamilton and the McLaren team when he said he agreed with the penalty the Briton received for his move at the start of yesterday's race. "I don't know what he did," said the Spaniard, "but it's good he's punished anyway."
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He's such a sportsman...
 
There's so much BS being written about who supposedly said what about who in F1, I don't believe a word anymore.
 
However, its becoming increasingly clear almost the entire paddock isn't exactly chums with Hamilton.....I mean, they either complain about him or avoid commenting about him at all.
A stark contrast to, say, Vettel who seems to universally liked.
 
the Interceptor
There's so much BS being written about who supposedly said what about who in F1, I don't believe a word anymore.
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Agreed.


Can't believe it took international media creating the usual 'fuss out of nothing' to spark people discussing what Hamilton said after the race.
 
Vettel is one of only few drivers in the last 20 years who isnt an arrogant tosser.
 
Alex.
Vettel is one of only few drivers in the last 20 years who isnt an arrogant tosser.
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Oh there's been quite a few...just not ones that have become really popular/famous. F1 drivers either seem to be arrogant pricks(Hamilton) or not say anything at all(Raikkonen.) So when someone like Vettel or Massa comes along, it makes it more special.:sly:
 
Ill just throw my thoughts on the Massa + Hamilton thing.

I do think that Massa was in the wrong in his move but we cant live to think that for EVERY little incident should be punished. Its really annoyed me that we have got to the stage, even myself, that for all these things a penalty is needed. But I guess the FIA set a precedent and well everyone expects them to be consistent.
 
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I'm angry.

It's getting very tedious having to listen to all these accusations floating around of FIA biasedness towards Ferrari. It seems that those who are worried that their hero Hamilton may not win the title feel the need to begin the excuses, just so that they have a back-up should Massa come out on top.

This whole 'disgrace to the sport thing' is only exasserbated by the hype surrounding it - people seem to be making mountains out of molehills.

Let's face it, there's no denying that Lewis was in the wrong at turn 1 in Fuji, and his claims that his move wasn't dangerous are ridiculous because the result was a chain reaction where multiple cars were forced wide, and Hamilton had to be punished, it was the only fair option. Massa also fully deserved his punishment, his move was possibly one of the most controversial of the season, and a dire mistake.

Both drivers were in the wrong on track, but what is, for me, the worst thing of all, was the pettiness off track. Massa did not hit Lewis on purpose, we all know that Massa is prone to the odd mistake, yet when his rival is involved, it suddenly becomes and act of spite.

Those people who think they have the right to sit there and dish out accusations that Formula 1 is fixed, can consider that the attitude of themselves and even the drivers are far more damaging to the sport than any penalties handed out.
 
:bowdown:

Be honest though, there have been decisions which have made everyone wonder if Ferrari is favoured.
 
Ross!
Those people who think they have the right to sit there and dish out accusations that Formula 1 is fixed, can consider that the attitude of themselves and even the drivers are far more damaging to the sport than any penalties handed out.
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Although I agree Ferrari-bias is a little over-used at times, there have been plenty of occasions that I think the FIA has definitely been dishing out penalties to affect the championship and to make it closer. A prime example being the completely un-necessary Bourdais penalty.
 

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