2009 Belgian Grand Prix

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Only_in_f1
Button hasn't been that consistent really, he's making it harder for himself to win the title. Vettel on pace has been top 5 consistently before a failure by team or car. If He gets a good run He will beat Button out of the water.
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Hmm, scoring points in all races so far is pretty consistent to my mind. That wins championships, not winning races and then finishing 9th like Webber. Or having horrible reliability woes like Vettel.

Alex.
Seriously, if you think the momentum is with Brawn there is a flaw in your logic.
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Why? Where am I wrong? Red Bull are the ones who have to catch up, and its a lot more difficult when we have 3 more teams who are taking up the points positions consistently.
A combination of reliability woes, some unreliable strategy work and having to fight more than 1 team for points puts the work in RBR's court, not Brawn's. As well as having two drivers who are constantly swapping positions, it isn't helping either catch up.

Its not so much that Brawn have momentum, its more that Red Bull are lacking momentum. Currently I'd say Brawn are staying where they are, Red Bull are crawling forwards and McLaren are leaping ahead.
Still with a points lead and with more and more competition for the points from other teams, Brawn have the advantage still.
 
Ardius
Hmm, scoring points in all races so far is pretty consistent to my mind. That wins championships, not winning races and then finishing 9th like Webber. Or having horrible reliability woes like Vettel.
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Consistant maybe but its haul of points hasn't been consistent.

When he hasn't won hes be 3rd, 6th, 5th, 7th & 7th again. That's not going to cut it if Vettel wins and he gets 7th places in that race.

Ardius
Why? Where am I wrong? Red Bull are the ones who have to catch up, and its a lot more difficult when we have 3 more teams who are taking up the points positions consistently.
A combination of reliability woes, some unreliable strategy work and having to fight more than 1 team for points puts the work in RBR's court, not Brawn's. As well as having two drivers who are constantly swapping positions, it isn't helping either catch up.

Its not so much that Brawn have momentum, its more that Red Bull are lacking momentum. Currently I'd say Brawn are staying where they are, Red Bull are crawling forwards and McLaren are leaping ahead.
Still with a points lead and with more and more competition for the points from other teams, Brawn have the advantage still.
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I don't think Alex was saying RedBull had the momentum rather Mclaren and maybe Ferrari.
 
Ardius
Red Bull are the ones who have to catch up, and its a lot more difficult when we have 3 more teams who are taking up the points positions consistently.
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I see that the opposite way, there are 3 more teams who can come between the Brawns and the RBRs. If it was just the Brawns and the RBRs up front then Jenson would finish 3rd in every race while the RBRs would have to take a 1-2 in all the remaining races in the favor of Webber.

Compare this with 2005 between McLaren and Renault and you'll see that this year it is much easier for a team to catch up in the championship.
 
Only_in_f1
Consistant maybe but its haul of points hasn't been consistent.

When he hasn't won hes be 3rd, 6th, 5th, 7th & 7th again. That's not going to cut it if Vettel wins and he gets 7th places in that race.



I don't think Alex was saying RedBull had the momentum rather Mclaren and maybe Ferrari.
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If Vettel wins. If this, if that. Point is, he's scored points all the time. So far its enough, I agree he needs to up his game, but then even Jenson knows that.
But its not like Red Bull have it all covered like some are suggesting, they are no where near a dominant force.

mipuumal
I see that the opposite way, there are 3 more teams who can come between the Brawns and the RBRs. If it was just the Brawns and the RBRs up front then Jenson would finish 3rd in every race while the RBRs would have to take a 1-2 in all the remaining races in the favor of Webber.
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Not necessarily, there is more to it than 3 teams being in the way, as I've said, Red Bull have been none too reliable with strategies, engines and luck.

I'm not saying that Red Bull don't good here, but its not like they are well ahead of Brawn either. This championship is extremely close and I hope it continues to Abu Dhabi.
 
Ardius
If Vettel wins. If this, if that. Point is, he's scored points all the time. So far its enough, I agree he needs to up his game, but then even Jenson knows that.
But its not like Red Bull have it all covered like some are suggesting, they are no where near a dominant force.
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As I said on the other page, 'IF' he gets a good run, never said he will.
 
Ferrari will probably get a win sometime this year and I have a feeling this will be the one. I'm reckoning BMW Sauber will do surprisingly well here, or at least score points. Hamilton will obviously be in with a shot, Alonso will get a Top 5, as will Vettel. And if the weather takes a turn for the worst, I reckon teams like Toro Rosso could get points, and Webber will get points this race probably.
 
Totally removed from anything that's been discussed before, but I'm already beginning to like Romain Gorsjean after reading this. How cool would that be if you were the bank? You could totally play up the fact that Grosjean works for you by saying that your company employs Formula One drivers as bankers (or whatever it is he does).
 
I like what I see with Grosjean, his first race, and he goes into Q2, only a bit slower than veteran Alonso. Only 1 race and he has done better than Piquet could have done. Badoer, on the other hand, :lol:
 
Ardius
Or having horrible reliability woes like Vettel
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Speaking of reliability, Vettel only has 2 engines left for the rest of the year before he starts getting 10 place grid penalties for every engine change. I dont think he'll be in the hunt for the title this year, sadly :indiff:
 
Tired Tyres
That's what happens when your leading the championship this late into the season. Every other driver knows that if they press the issue, Button will give way. It's the only sensible thing to do. Naturally that won't apply if it's Barrichello, Vettel or Webber.

Would you want to throw away 5 points trying to keep hold of 6 points because you've been punted into the gravel because you chose to fight it out in a corner against someone is isn't in the championship fight and is just out get the best result they can get in the race?
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Just like Hamilton last season... near the end. It's the smart way to win, though it's not as much fun to watch as a scramble for the finish line every race.

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I think Brawn do have the momentum to win the WDC, either way... they actually had the pace to match McLaren in Valencia... as long as the tracks stay warm and dry, they have a decent chance of scoring podiums in the next few races... and if they have to cede those podiums to Saubers, Ferraris or Mclarens... no biggie... none of them will catch up in the points, anyway.

Shame, I really thought it would be Vettel's season.
 
Sorry to come out of left field, but how many engines does Webber have left? I'd say more than Vettel, but is there anywhere that I can obtain an engine count for each driver in the field?
 
senamic
Sorry to come out of left field, but how many engines does Webber have left? I'd say more than Vettel, but is there anywhere that I can obtain an engine count for each driver in the field?
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There are a few websites that have been keeping track of the engine usage. I've seen one that not only monitors the nubmer used, but the distance each engine has been. Unfortuantely, I don't have any links close at hand.

To answer your original queston, Webber should be fine. I think he has three left, but so do most drivers. It might not sound like much, but there are six races left and as it stands, Vettel has to do three races on each engine. Webber can afford to do two on each. Vettel and Kubica are the only drivers who have realy used more than the others, but where Kubica's early-season habit of eating through his engines seems to have ended, Vettel's has only just begun.

That said, if the reliability of the Renault engine in general is a problem (unlike Vettel and Kubica, Webber and Nick Heidfeld haven't experienced egine dramas), Red Bull will be keeping a close eye on Webber. One bad run and the thumbscrews are going to start turning because at the current rate, the championship is going to go down to the final rounds.
 
Of course they can put "used" engines back in if they want to avoid the 10 spot grid penalty...

I guess that begs the question - how many engines has Vettel blown up and how many has he just used?

C.
 
PJ-FFL
Aren't teams allowed to repair damaged engines and put them back in?
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They can put a previously used engine back in, but as far as I know they can't repair a damaged one.
 
yeti
Of course they can put "used" engines back in if they want to avoid the 10 spot grid penalty...
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That seems to be Red Bull's plan. Vettel will run old engines through Friday and Saturday practice, with a new one put in for qualifying and the race.
 
I don't know if it's been said but, the speed numbers that show up in the Kimi pole vid are not accurate. The top speed at spa in a race is normally something like 310, and now, in qualy it says 346. Yes it's qualy, but, it's qualy with the fuel load for the race. So those numbers are totally unrealistic. I don't know how he got them.

I'm very excited for this GP, always have been. Can't wait for the qualy, even I want to see the FP's.
 
PeterJB
The top speed is faster because of the lack of downforce on this years cars.
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You was reacting to my post right?
The video I referred to was from 2007.

I see the KERS cars being the fastest in the first sector obviously, and losing alot in the 2nd sector. Lets see how it will pan out tomorrow. :)
 
Detailed info on Vettel and his engines...

Red Bull team boss Christian Horner
Out of the eight engines, Sebastian Vettel has blown half of them. He's got two used ones, and two new ones left. He'll be having an extended coffee break this morning. We're going for quality not quantity in practice. We're trying to avoid the ninth engine, but we can't afford another failure.
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C.
 
:lol: I love the BBC Broadcasts. Someone just text in asking why don't Brawn lower their tyre pressures to help generate heat.

You think they haven't thought of that!?
 
Wow,just saw the second free practice...Rosberg 19th on only 1,1 seconds!!!...unbelievable close...

Badoer needs some chilli pepper in his a**...

Can't wait for quali tomorrow,will be a superclose fight!!!



spyrrari.
 
Been pretty cool so far! :D Gogo Kimi!

Yeah, Badoer's kinda ****ed right now if he keeps this up ^^
 
Announcers on Speed made a good point. If Badoer can't keep pace on a race weekend, then what value would he even have as a test driver next year, especially when you could get a new young driver who is not afraid to push. Not to mention there is no testing right now. I don't understand how he was losing two seconds in the second sector. Does this come down to being just out of form, or is Badoer just not up to the high speed second half of Spa? Lewis first in the second practice, even with all that wing on the MP4/24. I wonder if the Brawn cars were just testing or if their pace will improve, at this rate they won't see Q3.
 
GTP_PP0473
they can still replace Badoer for tommorow right?
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They can, but they probably won't. There's only a one-hour session and then qualifying. And if a driver doesn't qualify a car, he cannot race at all, so it's not like Ferrari can replace Badoer for Sunday.
 

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