2009 Brazilian Grand Prix

zed300
It's all about using the throttle for a lengthy period of time is what I meant by character type.
Some of you must have driven the track in some games...yer?
If you are outside the right line from turn 6 onwards to turn 11 you lose the lap totally, as with Suzukas turn 1 to the top of the hill, if the throttle is to strong or lift off too early the lap is shot to bits.

Not too many other tracks string a non full throttle series of turns together that's all I meant. I thought some of you would have recognized this. I was just setting the scene for my next comment about Vettel.
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Yes I've driven it in a game but it doesn't really ruin your lap... It only cost you a couple of tenths and also as tibiquera stated, it'd also affect turn 7 and 8... But the most crucial one is turn 12 which you'll going left handed downhill and right there, if you miss the apex you'll lose plenty of time... But still this track is something like the first section of Suzuka but different than Suzuka I'd say...

BRAZIL :-

-Full throttle ratio : 65%
-Tyre wear : Medium
-Brake wear : Low
-Downforce : Medium

JAPAN :-

-Full throttle ratio : 67%
-Tyre wear : High
-Brake wear : High
-Downforce : Low

Now in terms of the full throttle ratio, it's the same but according to the info above which I got from BMW, I'd say that the overall characteristic isn't the same...
 
KidrauhlM5
JAPAN :-

-Full throttle ratio : 67%
-Tyre wear : High
-Brake wear : High
-Downforce : Low

Now in terms of the full throttle ratio, it's the same but according to the info above which I got from BMW, I'd say that the overall characteristic isn't the same...
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No wonder BMW are pulling out of F1, it seems they are absolutely clueless.

Suzuka has the lowest brakewear on the calendar after Silverstone and it's definitely not "low" downforce.

Also the tirewear is not "high", because the track has a good mix of fast left and right hand corners, meaning the left and right side tires both share the load equally.
 
Let's see if Barrichelo can win this race, he always screws up at Interlagos.
 
mipuumal
No wonder BMW are pulling out of F1, it seems they are absolutely clueless.

Suzuka has the lowest brakewear on the calendar after Silverstone and it's definitely not "low" downforce.

Also the tirewear is not "high", because the track has a good mix of fast left and right hand corners, meaning the left and right side tires both share the load equally.
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I looked at that too and a similar opinion came to mind.

Unless the Japan is refering to Fuji. Big stops and tough on the left tyres, I would imagine.


EDIT: (Just read the link)Well it just doesn't seem like it would be a low downforce track. Slow turns after straights is indictative of low downforce and high brake wear, not a medium to fast corning track.
They take 130R flat chat... with low downforce????
 
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mipuumal
No wonder BMW are pulling out of F1, it seems they are absolutely clueless.

Suzuka has the lowest brakewear on the calendar after Silverstone and it's definitely not "low" downforce.

Also the tirewear is not "high", because the track has a good mix of fast left and right hand corners, meaning the left and right side tires both share the load equally.
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How can I gurantee that you're right??? Read this!!!

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/f1-information/going-to-a-race/suzuka-circuit-japan/

EDIT : http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/circuits/suzuka.shtml (2006 last updated)

EDIT : zed300
They take 130R flat chat... with low downforce????
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Yeah because travelling at nearly over 300KMH even running on low downforce setup, is enough actually to generate amount of
downforce to take the corner...
 
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zed300
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/circuits/suzuka.shtml (2006 last updated)

This states a medium down-force, which is more more likened to this circuit.
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Yeah but it's also possible to go with low downforce setup but not absolutely low like in Monza... Perhaps something like Indianapolis or so but I also think that running in Medium/Low is the best... But if you look at the car back in year 2000 or so, they have less wing on their cars which means they are running in quite low downforce but still they can take on this circuit with no problem... Unlike these days they have complex barge board and diffuser stuff...

0324_1_lg.jpg
 
Well, to be fair the mechanical grip this year is much greater than in 2006, and in 2006 the cars were V10 at 19000 rpm. I would suggest that the setup required for Suzuka is much closer to Spa or Silverstone than Interlagos.
 
tibiquera
Well, to be fair the mechanical grip this year is much greater than in 2006, and in 2006 the cars were V10 at 19000 rpm. I would suggest that the setup required for Suzuka is much closer to Spa or Silverstone than Interlagos.
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Owh in 2006, they've already used V8 mate except for Midlands... revving at 18000-19000RPM...

Yeah mechanical grip this year is greater than it was in 2006 and below. I would agree with you 👍
 
KidrauhlM5
Owh in 2006, they've already used V8 mate except for Midlands... revving at 18000-19000RPM...
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Midland used a Toyota V8, you must be speaking of Torro Rosso, who used a Cosworth V10.
 
PJ-FFL
Midland used a Toyota V8, you must be speaking of Torro Rosso, who used a Cosworth V10.
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Owh sorry... Thought it was Midland. Yep checked it back on wikipedia and it's Toro Rosso.

Thanks for correcting me :)
 
First practice times:

Code: 
Pos  Driver       Team                       Time              Laps
 1.  Webber       Red Bull-Renault      (B)  1:12.463            29
 2.  Barrichello  Brawn-Mercedes        (B)  1:12.874  + 0.411   32
 3.  Vettel       Red Bull-Renault      (B)  1:12.932  + 0.469   27
 4.  Kovalainen   McLaren-Mercedes      (B)  1:12.989  + 0.526   25
 5.  Hamilton     McLaren-Mercedes      (B)  1:13.048  + 0.585   25
 6.  Nakajima     Williams-Toyota       (B)  1:13.067  + 0.604   21
 7.  Button       Brawn-Mercedes        (B)  1:13.141  + 0.678   29
 8.  Rosberg      Williams-Toyota       (B)  1:13.147  + 0.684   23
 9.  Sutil        Force India-Mercedes  (B)  1:13.232  + 0.769   23
10.  Raikkonen    Ferrari               (B)  1:13.321  + 0.858   24
11.  Trulli       Toyota                (B)  1:13.326  + 0.863   26
12.  Heidfeld     BMW-Sauber            (B)  1:13.464  + 1.001   28
13.  Buemi        Toro Rosso-Ferrari    (B)  1:13.503  + 1.040   24
14.  Kubica       BMW-Sauber            (B)  1:13.563  + 1.100   24
15.  Fisichella   Ferrari               (B)  1:13.619  + 1.156   23
16.  Alonso       Renault               (B)  1:13.787  + 1.324   28
17.  Liuzzi       Force India-Mercedes  (B)  1:13.829  + 1.366   26
18.  Kobayashi    Toyota                (B)  1:14.029  + 1.566   27
19.  Alguersuari  Toro Rosso-Ferrari    (B)  1:14.040  + 1.577   38
20.  Grosjean     Renault               (B)  1:14.173  + 1.710   23
 
KidrauhlM5
Owh in 2006, they've already used V8 mate except for Midlands... revving at 18000-19000RPM...

Yeah mechanical grip this year is greater than it was in 2006 and below. I would agree with you 👍
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That comes down to the slick tyres mainly...👍

Did you guys see the Sutil slide in the first practice session??...great stuff!!..

Am hoping for wet gp on sunday...lets say after 15-20 laps or so,we need some drama and exitement after the last few technically interesting but a bit boring gp's...and there is no better place for drama than Brazil..(if you remember especially 2003...:crazy:)



spyrrari.
 
spyrrari
That comes down to the slick tyres mainly...👍

Did you guys see the Sutil slide in the first practice session??...great stuff!!..

Am hoping for wet gp on sunday...lets say after 15-20 laps or so,we need some drama and exitement after the last few technically interesting but a bit boring gp's...and there is no better place for drama than Brazil..(if you remember especially 2003...:crazy:)



spyrrari.
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Did he??? Sorry because I don't have coverage for the practice session here... But all that I know is Grosjean hit the braking mark, buemi crashed and alonso cut through the grass... was watching through timing screen :p

2003 is the best that you can get from Interlagos!!! Hope that happens again this Sunday :D

Yeah mainly it's because of the slicks that kinda melt on the track....
 
Roo
First practice times:

Code: 
Pos  Driver       Team                       Time              Laps
 1.  Webber       Red Bull-Renault      (B)  1:12.463            29
 2.  Barrichello  Brawn-Mercedes        (B)  1:12.874  + 0.411   32
 3.  Vettel       Red Bull-Renault      (B)  1:12.932  + 0.469   27
 4.  Kovalainen   McLaren-Mercedes      (B)  1:12.989  + 0.526   25
 5.  Hamilton     McLaren-Mercedes      (B)  1:13.048  + 0.585   25
 6.  Nakajima     Williams-Toyota       (B)  1:13.067  + 0.604   21
 7.  Button       Brawn-Mercedes        (B)  1:13.141  + 0.678   29
 8.  Rosberg      Williams-Toyota       (B)  1:13.147  + 0.684   23
 9.  Sutil        Force India-Mercedes  (B)  1:13.232  + 0.769   23
10.  Raikkonen    Ferrari               (B)  1:13.321  + 0.858   24
11.  Trulli       Toyota                (B)  1:13.326  + 0.863   26
12.  Heidfeld     BMW-Sauber            (B)  1:13.464  + 1.001   28
13.  Buemi        Toro Rosso-Ferrari    (B)  1:13.503  + 1.040   24
14.  Kubica       BMW-Sauber            (B)  1:13.563  + 1.100   24
15.  Fisichella   Ferrari               (B)  1:13.619  + 1.156   23
16.  Alonso       Renault               (B)  1:13.787  + 1.324   28
17.  Liuzzi       Force India-Mercedes  (B)  1:13.829  + 1.366   26
18.  Kobayashi    Toyota                (B)  1:14.029  + 1.566   27
19.  Alguersuari  Toro Rosso-Ferrari    (B)  1:14.040  + 1.577   38
20.  Grosjean     Renault               (B)  1:14.173  + 1.710   23
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Kobayashi seems like he is doing decent, good for his first time in the car.
 
Unreal 2nd practice session...whole field within 0,8 seconds!!..(exept Fisi who stalled his car...)
Should be an exiting quali tomorrow...



spyrrari.
 
I don't know but, it looks to me that Buemi is getting better each race he goes to. Any thoughts?
 
^Other than Suzuka ;) :p

Yeah, he was pretty good at the start of the year (I remember a few battles with some big guns and he did well) but like any rookie, he stuggled with his consistency. It didn't help being in a team who can't develop their own parts at the pace of the other 9 teams and being asked by Ferrari to use old engines longer than may have planned to though.

Easily rookie of the year though, solid job and he's set himself up well for a good career it looks like. He just needs to get out of that horrible driver-management team, he'd be good at Renault with Kubica actually. 👍
 
L_Hamilton
I don't know but, it looks to me that Buemi is getting better each race he goes to. Any thoughts?
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Yeah, I thought his performance in P2 was quite awesome tbh. He has shown a lot of potential recently, and has been doing DAMN well considering the lack of testing and seat time he has been given. The future looks very bright for him IMO 👍
 
He really should get out of Torro Rosso if he wants to have a successful career, I mean, how many people apart from Vettel have been with STR and have had a successful career in F1?
 
:lol: You could have said the same thing about Red Bull Renault last year...now look where they are...

Not to mention, there basic package has a lot of potential, especially if they get a proper engine next year.
 
PJ-FFL
He really should get out of Torro Rosso if he wants to have a successful career, I mean, how many people apart from Vettel have been with STR and have had a successful career in F1?
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This is only Toro Rosso's 4th year in F1, how many careers could they have built in that time?
 
mipuumal
This is only Toro Rosso's 4th year in F1, how many careers could they have built in that time?
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Well I can tell you how many drivers STR screwed over the years. Speed, Liuzzi and bourdais. STR would be the last place I'd go if I were a rookie to the sport.
 
Second practice times:

Code: 
Pos  Driver       Team                       Time              Laps
 1.  Alonso       Renault               (B)  1:12.314            27
 2.  Buemi        Toro Rosso-Ferrari    (B)  1:12.357  + 0.043   45
 3.  Barrichello  Brawn-Mercedes        (B)  1:12.459  + 0.145   38
 4.  Webber       Red Bull-Renault      (B)  1:12.514  + 0.200   41
 5.  Button       Brawn-Mercedes        (B)  1:12.523  + 0.209   45
 6.  Trulli       Toyota                (B)  1:12.605  + 0.291   37
 7.  Vettel       Red Bull-Renault      (B)  1:12.611  + 0.297   45
 8.  Rosberg      Williams-Toyota       (B)  1:12.633  + 0.319   42
 9.  Sutil        Force India-Mercedes  (B)  1:12.720  + 0.406   35
10.  Hamilton     McLaren-Mercedes      (B)  1:12.749  + 0.435   39
11.  Grosjean     Renault               (B)  1:12.806  + 0.492   27
12.  Kubica       BMW-Sauber            (B)  1:12.862  + 0.548   39
13.  Kobayashi    Toyota                (B)  1:12.869  + 0.555   40
14.  Nakajima     Williams-Toyota       (B)  1:12.929  + 0.615   41
15.  Heidfeld     BMW-Sauber            (B)  1:12.948  + 0.634   38
16.  Liuzzi       Force India-Mercedes  (B)  1:12.950  + 0.636   36
17.  Kovalainen   McLaren-Mercedes      (B)  1:12.992  + 0.678   39
18.  Raikkonen    Ferrari               (B)  1:13.026  + 0.712   42
19.  Alguersuari  Toro Rosso-Ferrari    (B)  1:13.041  + 0.727   40
20.  Fisichella   Ferrari               (B)  1:13.275  + 0.961   38

19 drivers inside three quarters of a second :eek:
 
spyrrari
Did you guys see the Sutil slide in the first practice session??...great stuff!!..

Am hoping for wet gp on sunday...lets say after 15-20 laps or so,we need some drama and exitement after the last few technically interesting but a bit boring gp's...and there is no better place for drama than Brazil..(if you remember especially 2003...:crazy:)



spyrrari.
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Yeah I seen it, he held it well. How are you viewing the practice sessions, through BBC?

Looking forward to this GP. I'm hoping for some rain half way through.

Button will probably take the WDC but somehow I can't picture him as champ. Rubens or Vettel would be great for WDC.

Here's the slide. First angle doesn't show it very well but watch the second one. Sorry for low picture quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLf1qGeRfA4

Edit: How the hell has youtube found the copyright on this little clip? I even encoded to avi. If you click the link you can still view it. Youtube have blocked "some countries". Can gtplanet add a less restrictive video site to embed?

 
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Damn :lol: I missed FP1...never got to witness Sutil's slide :(

Kovi had an awesome save up at turn 10 I believe, during FP2. One of the nicest I've seen all year :)
 
mipuumal
This is only Toro Rosso's 4th year in F1, how many careers could they have built in that time?
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Yeha but, at least Bordais should have been put somewhere like I dunno, Renault? But no, they kicked him out mid season showing the rest of the teams he's good for nothing. If Renualt needed a French driver in their squad, well they missed a really good opportunity. :grumpy:
 
L_Hamilton
Yeha but, at least Bordais should have been put somewhere like I dunno, Renault? But no, they kicked him out mid season showing the rest of the teams he's good for nothing. If Renualt needed a French driver in their squad, well they missed a really good opportunity. :grumpy:
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Well unfortunately that's the way F1 goes. The drivers don't always get the seat they want and they're not going to be given 5 seasons to adapt and prove their worth...if they even have the potential to begin with.

Bourdais IMO is good for nothing really (worse than Piquet really)...maybe a mid pack driver at best. He was utterly destroyed by Vettel in both their rookie seasons, as Vettel scored 35 out of the 39 points for STR...if that doesn't prove who's good and who's not then I don't know what does. Not to mention SB had 4 Champ Car Championships under his belt, with a great bit more wealth of racing experience in comparison to Vettel. Even Buemi was able to outscore Bourdais up until his "canning" mid way through this season :ouch:

Renault would have been stupid to hire him simply because of the fact that he is French :lol:
 
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