2009 Grand Prix de Monaco

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Driving-errors - he locked his brakes into the chicane and oversteered, and, in order to catch it, went slightly wide on the exit and over the chicane.
 
nissan tuner
This race was very boring IMO :indiff:
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I concur, I was expecting a little bit more drama with perhaps strategies or collisions but no, very processional really, but of course the best man (for me) won :p

PJ-FFL
Well, all there is to say is "The boys in red are back!!!"
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I would say they have improved but it means little this year it seems. Look at BMW, Toyota and McLaren. All have peaked and dropped from race to race. The only teams this year that have been consistent in their performances are Brawn and Force India. Everyone else is up and down.

I think its fair to say Ferrari have improved but it remains to be seen if they can keep it up. Red Bull may come back, Williams may improve and McLaren and Renault are still threats to those top 8 positions.

PJ-FFL
During the race, Massa cut the chichane twice, but the marshalls only gave ferrari a warning. Pretty strange huh?
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Not really, as Brundle later said, there isn't much they can really do unless Massa had used the chicane every lap and had taken a notable advantage over everyone else.



So, what are the odds for Jenson for the championship? :p
It will be interesting to go back into the threads from past years and see the changes in opinion.
 
Ardius
I would say they have improved but it means little this year it seems. Look at BMW, Toyota and McLaren. All have peaked and dropped from race to race. The only teams this year that have been consistent in their performances are Brawn and Force India. Everyone else is up and down.
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In terms of Mclaren, they have never really been there, they did well in the wet, and they did okay (in terms of pace in Monaco) but that is because the Mclaren has decent mechanical grip. Toyota seem to be up and down. Redbull have been consistently quick and I am sure they will continue to do so, we haven't seen the full potential of the Red Bull car yet which is a shame..

[/quote]I think its fair to say Ferrari have improved but it remains to be seen if they can keep it up. Red Bull may come back, Williams may improve and McLaren and Renault are still threats to those top 8 positions.
[/QUOTE]

I am almost certain Ferrari can keep it up. In terms of tracks Monaco and Catalunya are opposites. While they both require high downforce wings, they require different approaches. Catulunya is most certainly an Aero track, good Aerodynamics largely determine how fast you are. Ferrari did well at this. Monaco is a tight street circuit which requires good mechanical grip, clearly the Ferrari has plenty of this too now. All that is left to test the versatility of the Ferrari is a power track like Monza, I doubt the Ferrari engine is too shabby though. :p

The car now shows it can handle a wide variety of tracks, so I am not expecting it to be up and down in terms of performance.

I don't see how you can say 'red bull may come back' unless I am misreading it. They haven't really fallen back this season. The most recent races were fairly strong showings, 3rd and 4th at Catalunya with Vettel beibng one of the fastest on the track, and obviously at this race he crashed it but Webber finished right behind Massa, so a decent result.

I am struggling who to pick for next race between RedBull, Ferrari and Brawn.
 
They did indeed fall back, from winning 1-2 in China to barely hanging on to 5th place here and having many issues over the weekend.
RBR should be up there beating Brawn, but they are struggling with bad strategies (see: Barcelona Vettel, Bahrain Vettel) and occasional tyre issues and general inexperience from Vettel.

I don't think its safe to say Ferrari are back just yet, they have had 1 faultless race with a good finish for both cars, that doesn't instantly mean they are good for the rest of the season. They made mistakes in Barcelona and are still lacking on the reliability with Kimi's engine last race.
I did say they have improved but they are not "for sure" there just yet, at least not 100% sure.

I'm finding it easy to pick race winners now.....Button and Brawn everytime, they do everything perfect.
Nick Fry dropped a real shocker with Brawn - they've used the same engine for the past 3 races!

Did anyone else hear Piquet interviewed by the BBC? :lol:
"These young drivers....." :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Using the same engine for 3 races is no surprise. With so many races on the calendar and just 8 engines for the season, they have to use several of them three times - and the order doesn't matter, because they can't rebuild them anyway.
 
Nick Fry said that the engine has won three races. I don't think that's happened before.
 
Because we never needed to do that before this year. Until now, a two-race old engine was relegated to Friday duties... Just three-four seasons ago, they were burning two engines a weekend. 20 years ago, they were burning an extra engine just for qualifying.

One thing he won't get is Alonso's record of a full season, a championship and several wins on the same chassis. Jenson already switched one.
 
I noticed your earlier post hoping he was gong to win.

You didn't really think someone running so light on fuel was going to do anything other than go backwards did you?
 
The problem with Vettel, today, wasn't fuel - it was starting on the Super Soft compound, which were shredded even before the 13 laps of fuel he was carrying were completed.
 
Metar
Had they used them in the opening laps, they could've lost more: Vettel, just ahead of Massa, used Softs on the opening stint, and lost out big-time as they faded after ten laps or so.
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I never had the feeling the super softs were that fast seeing as the guys on softs were driving some solid laps together...

Yep, Ferrari's back, Toyota's gone. Also some great progression from Force India, 9th is a fabulous result for a Force India car when it does not rain.


*EDIT*

I'm also not buying the story of Barrichello holding back 3-4 seconds per lap on Button just because his tyres were getting grainy at the rear...
 
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Tired Tyres
I noticed your earlier post hoping he was gong to win.

You didn't really think someone running so light on fuel was going to do anything other than go backwards did you?
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Metar
The problem with Vettel, today, wasn't fuel - it was starting on the Super Soft compound, which were shredded even before the 13 laps of fuel he was carrying were completed.
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And because of that, Vettel holds up Massa from the first corner (and before that at the start, he cut infront Massa that hard he almost had nowhere to go!!) and we saw the Vettel train for the first 10 laps while the front 3 got over 15 seconds infront, race over from that moment. While it was Vettel's right to do so, it did spoil what could've been a good race if both Ferrari's were in for the fight.
 
Bram Turismo
*EDIT*

I'm also not buying the story of Barrichello holding back 3-4 seconds per lap on Button just because his tyres were getting grainy at the rear...
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:rolleyes:
I guess Barrichello is so amazing that Button can't be considered to just be plain faster?
Don't get me wrong, I've been a Rubens fan longer than a Jenson fan (naturally due to him being around longer). But to think there is team orders going on here is rediculous....you're talking about the very driver other than Mansell who would walk out the team if he felt that was going on.

Quite simply, once again, Jenson outclassed Rubens and both had tyre issues (along with Vettel). We know the Brawn is better on its tyres than the RB5 so there is no reason to think Rubens is making up excuses about his rear tyres fading too fast.


Anyway, for people with UK proxys, I particularly enjoyed this part of the BBC coverage, brilliant, especially what Graham Hill thinks of Brawn! :lol:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8065911.stm
 
Ardius
:rolleyes:
I guess Barrichello is so amazing that Button can't be considered to just be plain faster?
Don't get me wrong, I've been a Rubens fan longer than a Jenson fan (naturally due to him being around longer). But to think there is team orders going on here is rediculous....you're talking about the very driver other than Mansell who would walk out the team if he felt that was going on.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8065911.stm
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I was quoting Barrichello himself. He definitly had the pace in my eyes. I just can't understand why all of a sudden he would let Button go if he knows he can give Button a run. Both men are driving the same cars, and that Button is so plain faster that he slams a gap of 10 seconds withing half a stint so fast is just not normal, not with a driver like Rubens. This may sound like a rant, but I really can't see Button being that much faster than Rubens.
 
Bram Turismo
I was quoting Barrichello himself. He definitly had the pace in my eyes. I just can't understand why all of a sudden he would let Button go if he knows he can give Button a run. Both men are driving the same cars, and that Button is so plain faster that he slams a gap of 10 seconds withing half a stint so fast is just not normal, not with a driver like Rubens. This may sound like a rant, but I really can't see Button being that much faster than Rubens.
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I can, the tyres had a severe drop-off, as we saw with Vettel. Clearly, Rubens was harder on his set than Button, but not as hard as Vettel (though mostly because the RBR seems a little harsher on its tyre wear), so his dropped off quicker than Jenson's.
It can't have helped having to defend against Kimi behind him.
 
As Barrichello himself said, his tyres went off in the dirty air behind Button. That was why he was slow at that point.

On my earlier point about Vettel going backwards because of fuel. What I meant was that being on light fuel but stuck in 4th behind heavier cars. That would have controlled his pace and lead to other cars backing up behind him regardless of tyres. Then when he pits everyone passes him and he's stuck behind other cars again. This means he goes backwards. Low fuel weights do not work around Monaco. This is regardless of any tyre issues he had which just made the situation worse for him.
 
Nice 3-4 finish from Scuderia Ferrari. I'm very happy about that. We have a full DD diffuser, a new floor, and some aero bits for Turkey. Our first win is in sight. And all of this with KERS and a whole year less development time than Brawn GP! Also nice comments from Kimi in the press conference. Nothing but a win will suffice.

Oh and an excellent job by the Marshalls today, even though I was hoping for a SC so we could close the gap to the BGPs.
 
Kimi was charging on Rubens and at 1 point was right behind him, but why didn't he beat him or why wasn't he even close behind him at the end of the race?
 
What a disappointing race
-Button finishes first
-Vettel crashes
-They let some annoying, dumb Spice Girl on TV


On the plus side, I think I saw Kimi eying his party yacht after he received the trophy.
 
PJ-FFL
Well, all there is to say is "The boys in red are back!!!"
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Far from it, I'm afraid. Competitive the may be, but by Ferrari's standards, they are by no means back. Consider this: Kimi Raikkonen and Felipe Massa have nine and eight points respectively. Jenson Button has fifty-one; more than five times as many. At the current rate, there is simply no way that either Ferrari driver will be able to catch Button. It's going to take an absolute miracle for the to catch him, or something truly unexpected. It's the same story in Constructors' Championship: Ferrari have seventeen points to Brawn's eighty-six.

PJ-FFL
Kimi was charging on Rubens and at 1 point was right behind him, but why didn't he beat him or why wasn't he even close behind him at the end of the race?
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It's because, as Martin Brundle put it, their tyres went over a cliff in terms of grip. Brawn started both cars on the super-soft option, and everyone learned pretty quickly that the supersofts shredded themselves within about twelve laps, which drastically altered pit strategy. Ferrari started the race on the soft compound, so where Brawn had gotten the lesser tyre phase out of the way, the Maranellos still had to use them. Raikkonen started catching Barrichello because the Brazilian had a problem with his seatbelt; it started becoming looser and looser as the race went on, forcing him to change his driving style. But once the Ferraris pitted for the super-soft tyres, then only had a few laps in them before the rear tyres in particular started to show signs of heavy graining. It wouldn't have mattered if they'd caught Barrichello before then because Sebastian Vettel proved that one the tyres go, you start losing about four seconds a lap. That close to the end and with the Brawn's superiority, there's no way Raikkonen and/or Massa could haev dialled out enough of a lead over Barrichello that they could have defended it.
 
Ardius
...Did anyone else hear Piquet interviewed by the BBC? :lol:
"These young drivers....." :lol: :lol: :lol:
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I almost fell off my chair when I heard that one. Because isn't Nelson a young inexperienced driver himself. Go Buemi


Also is it just me, or does anyone else find it annoying with the BBC commetary. Why do we have to pronouce BUtton all the time.
i mean Button will suffice. Why does that dip**** commentator always put emphasis on the BU. It gets on my nerves.
I am serriously contemplating watching it with out sound but I like Martins little quirks. Like this event he was going on about how Senna used his car as brakes one time. :lol:
 
Open Addict
I almost fell off my chair when I heard that one. Because isn't Nelson a young inexperienced driver himself. Go Buemi
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I also found that Nelson interview rather hilarious because maybe he should learn to use that steering wheel a bit better!

Open Addict
Also is it just me, or does anyone else find it annoying with the BBC commetary. Why do we have to pronouce BUtton all the time.
i mean Button will suffice. Why does that dip**** commentator always put emphasis on the BU. It gets on my nerves.
I am serriously contemplating watching it with out sound but I like Martins little quirks. Like this event he was going on about how Senna used his car as brakes one time. :lol:
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Its because Legard talks too damn posh thats why, Im still annoyed at the way he says 'from' when he means 'then'. But the BBC coverage as a whole has got better. Liked the bit were they showed the fans clinging on to the hillside, I never knew even such a place exsisted...

The race was quite boring but the fact it was Monaco always makes it worth watching. Interesting seeing Bernie moaning that F1's all gone predictable again, he seems annoyed that Button is winning everything. Less glamourous pit walk this time if all they could find was Geri Halliwell :yuck:

Oh and loved the Button Jog down the home straight!

Robin
 
Robin.
.... But the BBC coverage as a whole has got better. Liked the bit were they showed the fans clinging on to the hillside, I never knew even such a place exsisted...Robin
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I must addmit the coverage is a lot better two, I mean we did get to see a lot more of the other cars. In previous years the whole race would have be button, button, button. But we did get to see the likes of Fisi for a lap or two, even though he wasn't racing anyone for position at the time.
 
Open Addict
I must addmit the coverage is a lot better two, I mean we did get to see a lot more of the other cars. In previous years the whole race would have be button, button, button. But we did get to see the likes of Fisi for a lap or two, even though he wasn't racing anyone for position at the time.
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Its certainly more impartial than ITV ever was, but I would expect that from a public broadcaster and from that aspect its an improvement both in the pre race show and on the track.

Robin.
 
PJ-FFL
Kimi was charging on Rubens and at 1 point was right behind him, but why didn't he beat him or why wasn't he even close behind him at the end of the race?
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Rubens used his Super Soft tyres at the opening stint, while Kimi and Massa didn't - and these tyres were slower. They were, however, catching Rubens (and Jenson) when they were all on equal tyres.
 
Well, there's the turkish grand prix next, so i guess it's safe to say massa for the win.
 
Do you race?
Far from it, I'm afraid. Competitive the may be, but by Ferrari's standards, they are by no means back. Consider this: Kimi Raikkonen and Felipe Massa have nine and eight points respectively. Jenson Button has fifty-one; more than five times as many. At the current rate, there is simply no way that either Ferrari driver will be able to catch Button. It's going to take an absolute miracle for the to catch him, or something truly unexpected. It's the same story in Constructors' Championship: Ferrari have seventeen points to Brawn's eighty-six.
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Championships are one thing, race-by-race performance another. Ferrari just proved their competitiveness two races in a row, at vastly different circuits: One aero-driven, one mechanical-grip biased. Yes, the championship is long gone for anyone - even a vastly improved Vettel will find it hard to chase the Brawns, and in every past instance where a driver won 5 of 6 opening events, he also won the championship - but Ferrari are definitely close to the Brawns as far as their pace is concerned. Remember, the post-Barca car is vastly different and greatly improved, so no use complaining that the early-season car is slow.

Statistics are the only field where two men can receive the same data and end up with opposing conclusions.

Robin.
But the BBC coverage as a whole has got better. Liked the bit were they showed the fans clinging on to the hillside, I never knew even such a place exsisted...
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That's not BBC. Everything during the race itself is the FOM feed. Showing Fisico is the decision of the FOM director... Only the pre-race stuff is filmed independantly.
 
Metar
That's not BBC. Everything during the race itself is the FOM feed. Showing Fisico is the decision of the FOM director... Only the pre-race stuff is filmed independantly.
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That actually was pre-race ;)
 

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