2009 Magyar Nagydíj

Speed was 170mph
 
I hope Massa's okay :scared:. Wouldn't want anything bad to happen especially given recent events (hopefully the fia will look into safety standards for all levels of competition).
 
@Topgearfan,

not that its very important, but i think your calculation is wrong...the "a" in m*a is acceleration ( in [m/s^2] ), not velocity (in [m/s]). (m*v (velocity) would be the impulse)

I hope Massa will be fine again soon.
 
What a mess, I was at the Formula Palmer Audi meeting at Oulton Park today and we were watching it with the FPA drivers in the hospitality, I couldn't believe it when I saw Massa's Ferrari in the barrier, I had witnessed Surtees' accident last week live and now here again I witness Massa having a horrible crash. Sadly we couldn't hear the commentary so I had no idea of his condition till I got home now, though I did overhere Jonathan Palmer telling people that it was all possibly caused by Rubens suspension piece and about the mess with the timing system.

Now I've watched the replay of qualifying I'm a little more relieved that Felipe should be ok from the sounds of things, but man what a crazy qualifying session!

Hope the ill luck in motorsport doesn't continue tomorrow :nervous: Superstition is a strong feeling in motorsport and I hope this is not another precursor to a tragic weekend.
 
Apparently the other Ferrari car may be withdrawn. Massa is in a critical but stable state and has been put into a coma. All according to Sky Sports News.
 
1. Fernando Alonso, Renault, 637.5kg Very light.
2. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 655
3. Mark Webber, Red Bull, 652
4. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 650.5
5. Nico Rosberg, Williams, 654
6. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 655.5
7. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 651.5
8. Jenson Button, Brawn GP, 664.5 Very heavy Brawn miscalculation.
9. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 658
10. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, 671.5
11. Jarno Trulli, Toyota, 671.3
12. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn GP, 689
13. Timo Glock, Toyota, 679.2
14. Nelson Piquet, Renault, 667.7
15. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber, 658
16. Giancarlo Fisichella, Force India, 680.5
17. Adrian Sutil, Force India, 683.5
18. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 666
19. Jaime Alguersuari, Toro Rosso, 675.5
 
Brawn miscalculation? He has extra fuel in there because of a combination of strategy and only doing one hotlap. They were checking Jenson's car after Massa's accident which led to Jenson only doing one lap.
I don't see any problem in them fuelling heavy here, making up positions in the pits is the only way to make progress, it will work better than Alonso's strategy which will leave him behind cars for the rest of the race.
Downside is that Jenson starts from the dirty side of the grid.
 
I see a problem in this: If Massa can't make it to the race...there will be only one Ferrari car on the grid? Because, IIRC, only the driver that did the qualification can race the car.
It's just...I'd like to see Gené replacing him on this race.
 
Only the driver that qualified the car can race. For the obvious reason that any other replacement driver cannot proved to have been as fast and its not clever safety-wise to throw a driver into a race seat on race day with no testing and a car setup for a different driver.
Of course...Massa's condition does put into question if he can even make the next race, or even the rest of the season. It depends how bad the damage is to his head. The pictures are horribly errie as he appears to be unconscious with one eye open.
 
I doubt Massa will be in any condition to race for the next few months let alone the rest of the season. Head/Brain injuries are very serious and must be treated in a delicate manner.

Even people who have had medium impacts to the head (a minor fall, or some sort of impact like a ball or a falling object) have died only by slight pressure in the cerebral cavity. With no treatment the blood pools up and creates pressure on the brain and typically without any treatment will be fatal. Surgeons will typically operate on the area where the blood is "pooling" and extract a piece of skull so to relieve the pressure.

The impact of the spring on Felipe's helmet must have been very hard. He was after all knocked senseless, it was a miracle he even managed to slow the car down. I truly hope that he recieves the best care possible. But as for racing i don't think he will be back this season. The Doctor's must keep Felipe well cared for and make sure no infections arise and that his cognition has not been affected in any way.

I truly hope for Felipe's well being. Things like this can really put into perspective of how dangerous motorsports can be.
 
edebert
@Topgearfan,

not that its very important, but i think your calculation is wrong...the "a" in m*a is acceleration ( in [m/s^2] ), not velocity (in [m/s]). (m*v (velocity) would be the impulse)

I hope Massa will be fine again soon.
Click to expand...

Does anyone know how much time there was between the two cars, and how the piece was still bouncing?
 
Wishing you a full recovery Felipe!


TopGearFan08@ Does the fact that the spring was bouncing up and toward Massa change any calculations?



Martin Brundle said 300m-400m, still it looks like it comes off the left armco too. Hard to workout, but being a spring the path it follows would be irregular.
 
zed300
Wishing you a full recovery Felipe!


TopGearFan08@ Does the fact that the spring was bouncing up and toward Massa change any calculations?
Click to expand...

His acceleration calculation I'm pretty sure is wrong. The bouncing definitely would have an effect, I'm trying to get a good estimate on the actual acceleration but knowing the time between the cars is what I need?

I just realized it isn't just the acceleration of the piece that is needed but Massa's as well.
 
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According to Niki Lauda on RTL that thing was about 1 kg thus it actual weight would be 1 tonne at impact which is very reasonable i think. When you look at the helmet that makes even more sense since they are built literally bullet-proof.

I hope all goes well for Massa and he recovers soon
 
A bit off topic but, 96 people are viewing this thread at time of this post, wow.
Along the lines of the object, it was said on the Speed TV broadcast that it was 800g.
And remember there was a massive wind at the time of Q1-Q3.
 
Well from my calculations the spring probably didn't have much force between 10-20 newtons, so it was mostly Massa and his car. So as a good estimate, I believe there was probably about 1700-1800 pounds of force from the impact, about 0.8 of a tonne and about 8000 Newtons.
 
Looks like Massa will be out for maybe two months. One docotor speculates the whole season. They're not really sure until they wake him up.

Anyway, in other news, Button is four laps heavier that anyone in front of him. He might be on the dirty side, but I'm hoping Alonso and the KERS cars can take the fight to the Red Bulls in the first corner and demote them to fifth and sixth. Button's happy with the car, so I'm hoping he can use the extra fuel to do a bit of leap-frogging.
 
Crap, hat's terrible for Massa. I'm terrified for him right now, his whole season is over :(, worse his life is in danger. Alonso will not win tomorrow, Red Bull 1-2, Raikkonen will hit Sutil, Jaime will not finish last place, Brawn will do badly compared to before, and Piquet will crash at turn 1.
 
Best wishes to Massa

It would suck if he couldn't race again.
 
People are saying different things so I really don't know how Massa is doing. Ferrari is being positive about the whole thing but what some of the doctors are saying still worries me a lot. We'll see...
 
Overkill
Ferrari is being positive about the whole thing but what some of the doctors are saying still worries me a lot. We'll see...
Click to expand...
Doctors tend to err on the side of caution. I'd expect Massa back in time for Singapore, if not Monza. But no sooner.
 
TopGearFan08
Quick calculation

Spring weight supposedly 800 grams

Estimated speed said to be 100-150mph.


using SI units of Metres per second and Kilograms:

Force = M * A

Force = 0.8 * 44

Force = 35.2 Newtons

Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this, perhaps EK=1/2MV^2 might be more relevant?
Click to expand...
This is incorrect because A stands for acceleration, not velocity. The acceleration on the F1 cars is quite fast, I would imagine that the force of the car moving forward displaces the actual acceleration of the object, so I'm willing to guess that Massa got hit with something like 30+ kilograms on his head. That would probably knock someone out. (not to mention the impact of the car crashing at high speed too).
 
MustangSVT
This is incorrect because A stands for acceleration, not velocity. The acceleration on the F1 cars is quite fast, I would imagine that the force of the car moving forward displaces the actual acceleration of the object, so I'm willing to guess that Massa got hit with something like 30+ kilograms on his head. That would probably knock someone out. (not to mention the impact of the car crashing at high speed too).
Click to expand...

As I said above he got hit with about 1800 pounds of force which would be like getting hit with a 800 kg object.
 
Are you Captain Obvious?:lol:
 
All this math stuff confuses me. Can we just say no matter how hard the thing hit him, he's lucky to be alive and wish him the best? Please?
 
I just saw the Massa crash, thankfully it wasn't as bad as it could have been.
 
Massa is tough, he'll return to the cockpit... I sincerely hope. He's a warrior.
I've waited long for Alonso to shake the sloth from another impotent Renault R-type. Todays incident along with the timing & scoring 'glitch' was a little anti-climactic, but I wish both said drivers well. Chaos indeed...
 
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