2009 Spanish Grand Prix

[SagarisGTB]

Car weights from Autsport

Pos Driver Team Weight (kg)
1. Jenson Button Brawn Mercedes 646.0
2. Sebastian Vettel RBR Renault 651.5
3. Rubens Barrichello Brawn Mercedes 649.5
4. Felipe Massa Ferrari 655.0
5. Mark Webber RBR Renault 651.5
6. Timo Glock Toyota 646.5
7. Jarno Trulli Toyota 655.5
8. Fernando Alonso Renault 645.0
9. Nico Rosberg Williams Toyota 668.0
10. Robert Kubica BMW Sauber 660.0
11. Kazuki Nakajima Williams Toyota 676.6*
12. Nelson Piquet Renault 677.4*
13. Nick Heidfeld BMW Sauber 676.3*
14. Lewis Hamilton McLaren Mercedes 683.0*
15. Sébastien Buemi STR Ferrari 678.0*
16. Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 673.0*
17. Sébastien Bourdais STR Ferrari 669.0*
18. Heikki Kovalainen McLaren Mercedes 657.0*
19. Adrian Sutil Force India Mercedes 675.0*
20. Giancarlo Fisichella Force India Mercedes 656.0*
* declared weight

Massa isnt that light and with a KERS boosted start, could get a podium.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Massa is heavier than I thought, and it looks like Toyota is missing the pace this weekend. Massa will be having a go at the podium, and with a KERS start, things might get really interesting...

 

[Tired Tyres]

I'm guessing either Button or Vettel for the win depending on how the race unfolds with Massa in 3rd place unless his car lets him down.

 

[Ardius]

Massa is heavier than I thought, and it looks like Toyota is missing the pace this weekend. Massa will be having a go at the podium, and with a KERS start, things might get really interesting...

Indeed, and if Massa wins, it will be his first time I believe from 4th position.

Turn 1 is going to so very important tomorrow, and I believe the Brawn's are on the clean side of the grid are they not? I think if Jenson and Rubens get a good start and Rubens can leapfrog Vettel and pressure Massa into holding off, then it should be all over for a Brawn 1-2.
All eyes will be on the top 4 men tomorrow, "for sure".

A better test of whether Button can deliver under pressure as well.

 

[fasj6418]

Yes, they've done brilliantly. What do they have, three points to their name? Very impressive, considering that Brawn have fifty. That's right, Brawn have nearly seventeen more times the points of Ferrari. "Good" is the last word I would use to describe them. You say they've done well heavy; they haven't Brawn have run heavier and been faster, as have Red Bull.

I'm sorry, but the cold, hard truth of it is that the Ferrari F60 is a poor car. They're behind the Brawns, the Red Bulls and the Toyotas, and judging by their results this weekend, the BMWs and possibly the Toro Rossos (see Buemi's times in practice) Everyone makes one sooner or later. I don't know the circumstances of Raikkonen's failure to make Q2, and until the weights are released, we don't know how heavy Massa is, but I suspect he's running light as he's got three stronger cars in front of him and another three behind. In Practice I they were 9th and 11th, and in Practice II the best they could manage was 10th and 15th. The sheer difference in their Practice III times compaed to the other two sessions can be attributed to running light.

Don't get me wrong; like I said, I think your loyalty to your team is a quality you hold take pains to keep, even when times are hard. If there's one thing I can't stand in this sport, it's fans who change their alleigances at the first sign of trouble, much like the way a lot of Button's fans defected to Hamilton when Honda were in trouble; I probably feel that way because I stuck it out with Button. But there comes a time when you have to realise that you've taken your devotion to them too far. I'm not trying to deflate your bubble here, but more impress upon you that discretion is the better part of valour.

Dude, lighten up, you don't need to contest everything he says. It's a sport, people support their teams and this is normal.

In fact Massa is heavier than both Brawn's and well positioned for a podium

 

[Stevisiov]

Dude, lighten up, you don't need to contest everything he says. It's a sport, people support their teams and this is normal.

In fact Massa is heavier than both Brawn's and well positioned for a podium

Very true, infact with the help of KERS of the line, a win isn't so ridiculous. If he can jump two cars at the line, which isn't that extreme if Hamilton's start to bahrain is anything to go by, then its a case of keeping up with the leasder as long as possible and potentially jumping during the pitstops. Fuel corrected Massa is almost right on the money.

 

[Tobias123]

According to the BBC site, Massa is actually the 3rd fastest, once fuel corrected, behind Vettel and Button. Now we have to see whether it's because Massa unleashed an incredible lap, or whether the car is actually that fast.

 

[Ardius]

A bit of both, I'd say. The car is undoubtedly faster but also Felipe did a good job to get the car there with higher fuel than his rivals.

 

[Peter]

My predivtion
1.Button
2.Vettel
3.Massa
4.Barrichello
5.Webber
6.Alonso
7.Trulli
8.Glock
9.Hamilton
10.Rosberg

Massa will jump past Barrichello at start of race with the KERS, Hamilton will impress us and Alonso will jump the 2 toyotas.

 

[Stevisiov]

Vettel FTW tomorrow.

with Massa behind, and Button third.

Although for my Fantasy F1 I am hoping: Vettel,Barrichello,Button.

 

[Ferrari_Tifoso]

Ferrari's back!

I can't wait till Massa gets the lighten chassis. We're also on the catbird seat for next year's mandatory KERS.

 

[Ardius]

Ferrari's already back....jeez, its like everyone forgot the lovable Ferrari before the Todt-era.
Anyway, what's to stop them making a mess in the race? They didn't score points in Malaysia because of bad strategy calls remember? Not to mention 2008 pit stops...

I demand they bring back Italian red on the cars! Get rid of the Marlboro colour damn it!

 

[Peter]

He meant the "top of the pack ferrari" is back. I'm glad too, but i get the strange feeling that they will lose either from reliability problems or bad team judgement. Or both, like in Malaysia.

 

[Ardius]

And Ferrari were never meant to be a "top of the pack" team in my opinion. Once upon a time, Ferrari managing to win was a special thing, it was the equivelant of Toro Rosso winning Monza last year.
Now its expected and boring, and they have their colours all wrong, so I am very glad to see the Ferrari of old return, where they had to fight for their victories and had a lot of bad luck (not that I wish bad luck on them, just that bad luck and Ferrari went together all the time).

Can anyone honestly say any Ferrari victory of recent times is as emotional or memorable as Jean Alesi at Canada 1995?

Anyway, I will be cheering all 4 drivers, as I do like Massa and I hope he puts up a good fight for the win. But I don't want the Todt-Ferrari to return, it was boring and emotionless.

 

[Ferrari_Tifoso]

To each their own I guess. Right at the top is exactly where Ferrari belongs IMO. You don't win 16 World Constructor Championships, and 15 World Driver Championships by lucking out.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Persolly, I don't think Ferrari have gotmch to work with here. Sure, they're fourth on the grid, and have a dirty lineon a circuit that is notoriously difficult to pass on. KERS might give them an advantage, but I'm not understanding the sudden love for it. Everyone derides KERS, but as soon as Massa puts the Ferrari at the business end of the grid, everyone is hailing it despite the fact that it's Ferrari's new aero package that is the most likely culprit in their return to form.

 

[zed300]

Ferrari were asked to change the colour back in the mid '90's(I think), because the colour they had,was not vivid enough for T.V.

Massa is unexpectedly heavier, but Ferrari haven't had as good economy or statergy as other teams, so Massa may only go a couple of laps longer than the Red Bull, who will go 1-2 laps longer than Brawn that have excellent economy.

Toyota don't seem to be as prominent as previous races.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Ferrari were asked to change the colour back in the mid '90's(I think), because the colour they had,was not vivid enough for T.V.

Red does not photograph very well for some reason. Somehing to do with the properties of light. Just look at the promotional stills for this year's Team Vodafone V8 Supercar. The red-and-chrome looks almost dark orange-and-chrome in the photos, but in reality it's a much deeper red. As another example, it's one of the reasons why Michael Bay changed the colour of Optimus Prime from all red to blue-with-red in the TRANSFORMERS films: the colour simply doesn't show well on film and television.

But asking Ferrari to change their colour is tanamount to sacrelige. I do beieve the exact composition of Italian Racing Red is one of their most closely-guarded secrets.

 

[Ferrari_Tifoso]

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I find it interesting that Button is running so light when Brawn have usually fuelled him up to be relatively heavy until now. His final laps weren't a case of going out for one last unscheduled try; by all accounts, he was simply leaving it as late as he possibly could (although I don't think he intended for it to be that late), as everyone else does. Given Ross Brawn's tactical ability, do the Brawns we know something we don't? They've had a radically different change in strategy between races ...

 

[zed300]

As a lot have stated, it is hard to pass, and the KERS of the line was evident last race, and Massa being close to the front is a threat to good track position for Brawn to achieve the best result possible.

Still think Red Bull is the biggest threat, a bit suprised they have the same predicted laps, though they will stagger the pits stops, I guess the fuel stop will be longer for one of them also.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That's the problem with the fuel weights: they assume that all the cars burn the same amount of fuel at the same rate when the clearly don't. Both Button and Vettel stayed out for much longer - as many as three laps - than first preicted in Bahrain, while I think the Ferrari has been a little thirstier, as have a few of the other cars.

 

[zed300]

Massa is unexpectedly heavier, but Ferrari haven't had as good economy or statergy as other teams, so Massa may only go a couple of laps longer than the Red Bull, who will go 1-2 laps longer than Brawn that have excellent economy.

That's the problem with the fuel weights: they assume that all the cars burn the same amount of fuel at the same rate when the clearly don't. Both Button and Vettel stayed out for much longer - as many as three laps - than first preicted in Bahrain, while I think the Ferrari has been a little thirstier, as have a few of the other cars.

I agree entirely.


I could be a matter of tyre degradation that provides the win, driving style could be a factor here.............Button.. Webber?.

 

[J-PaP]

And Ferrari were never meant to be a "top of the pack" team in my opinion. Once upon a time, Ferrari managing to win was a special thing, it was the equivelant of Toro Rosso winning Monza last year.
Now its expected and boring, and they have their colours all wrong, so I am very glad to see the Ferrari of old return, where they had to fight for their victories and had a lot of bad luck (not that I wish bad luck on them, just that bad luck and Ferrari went together all the time).

Can anyone honestly say any Ferrari victory of recent times is as emotional or memorable as Jean Alesi at Canada 1995?

Anyway, I will be cheering all 4 drivers, as I do like Massa and I hope he puts up a good fight for the win. But I don't want the Todt-Ferrari to return, it was boring and emotionless.

I'd say clinching the drivers championship by a point in 07 and had things gone very slightly differently in 08 in Massa's favour both were/would have been emotional/memorable

 

[Tired Tyres]

The Mercedes engine is the most economical engine on the grid but I don't think it's enough margin to add an additional lap to a stint.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The Mercedes engine is the most economical engine on the grid but I don't think it's enough margin to add an additional lap to a stint.

Button pitted a lap later than anticipated in Bahrain. Given the corect conditions, I'd say it's a distinct possibility that it's possible.

But I actually suspect Button's strategy may involve starting on the lesser compound simply because he's so light. He reported the car runs best with a heavier load, and as the soft option is the better of the two compounds on offer, I can see him throwing the start - he hasn't been that great off the line at all this year - then pitting early and coming back out fully loaded and running with soft rubber. It's a gamble because he'll lose time at the start, but he's the one with the twelve-point advantage in the championship, and he's proven that he can put in impossibly quick laps when he needs them the most, like when he needs to dial out a lead when he inherits first place due to another pitting. Hell, he did it in both Malaysia and Bahrain. Catalunya is going to be won in the pits because it's so difficult to pass, and given his past performances, Button has the best hand.

 

[Stevisiov]

. KERS might give them an advantage, but I'm not understanding the sudden love for it. Everyone derides KERS, but as soon as Massa puts the Ferrari at the business end of the grid, everyone is hailing it despite the fact that it's Ferrari's new aero package that is the most likely culprit in their return to form.

What really? I don't think anyone here is trying to pin Ferrari's 4th spot succes on KERS

What people are saying is with KERS, the Ferrari may make a place or two down to turn one, if that's the case then the lighter cars behind him probably wont be able to re-pass due to the nature of Catalunya. I don't think it has much to do with a love for KERS but more to do with observations of Hamilton's start to last race.I think you have the wrong end of the stick here.

 

[Ardius]

To each their own I guess. Right at the top is exactly where Ferrari belongs IMO. You don't win 16 World Constructor Championships, and 15 World Driver Championships by lucking out.

That wasn't my point - I didn't say they didn't win their championships on merit, just that in my opinion, Ferrari were always that team that didn't win much but when they did it was something special, they had the likable drivers, the crazy management, the unreliable V12 engines and the longest history in F1.
After Todt came in and "fixed" Ferrari, I lost interest in them, they became like McLaren - professional, sensible and successful and although it wins you championships, it doesn't make for a good show.

Persolly, I don't think Ferrari have gotmch to work with here. Sure, they're fourth on the grid, and have a dirty lineon a circuit that is notoriously difficult to pass on. KERS might give them an advantage, but I'm not understanding the sudden love for it. Everyone derides KERS, but as soon as Massa puts the Ferrari at the business end of the grid, everyone is hailing it despite the fact that it's Ferrari's new aero package that is the most likely culprit in their return to form.

I don't know about everyone else but I've always been supportive of KERS and pointed out its advantages at each race, very clearly it works well in Hamilton's McLaren and Alonso's Renault has had a few brilliant starts this year.
I don't know where you get the idea people think it was what made them qualify well though....KERS has never been useful in qualifying so far.

I'd say clinching the drivers championship by a point in 07 and had things gone very slightly differently in 08 in Massa's favour both were/would have been emotional/memorable

No way, but then this is my own opinion. Jean Alesi had yet to score a win in his career, he had led a few races before but always had unlucky things happen to him. He was liked by the whole paddock and when he finally won at Canada, all the teams were cheering him at the pit wall.
The only time a Ferrari man came close to that was either Rubens scoring his first win or Felipe almost winning the championship last year but they were still no where near.


Anyway, while were on the subject of Ferrari, I realise people will roll their eyes yet again (I did before reading it ), but some interesting observations on Alonso and Ferrari:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/f1mole/2009/05/alonso-a-banker-for-ferrari-mo.html

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I don't know where you get the idea people think it was what made them qualify well though....KERS has never been useful in qualifying so far.

Maybe it's just in the way I'm reading the comments, then.

 

[crooky369]

Is anyone in the UK finding the feed on BBC1 seems to be lagging?

Checked BBC2 and its just as bad but all the other channels are fine.