2010 F1 German Grand Prix

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Sureboss
if Alonso had made another move, it wouldn't have surprised me if someone ended up with some damage.
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Same here. I'm starting to really hate Alonso now.
 
yeti
I think he went off to ensure Alonso didn't drive into him...

C.
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To me it looked he outbraked himself and couldn't make the corner, but I only saw the start twice not particularly looking for that.

edit: Or rather he couldn't slow down enough.
 
I'll say Ferrari got incredibly lucky that they didn't get a different penalty. They came into this race with essentially everything to lose, and they nearly threw it all away with that obvious team order. And luckily for them the race ended when it did, because if he had just a little more time, I bet Vettel would've caught and passed Massa.
 
They can still be penalized more. It's not over for Ferrari yet.
 
There's been some praise of Chandhok and his commentary. If he replaced Legard tomorrow, I would gladly celebrate. I'm that desperate.

It's not right to blame Alonso for the Massa switch today, just as it was not right to blame Schumacher for the same in the past. It's up to the team what happens. The team pays the cash, and makes the contracts. The drivers will always want the maximum chance of winning the championship. But if the team did not give the blatant order to Massa, Alonso probably would not have won today.

The main thing to say is that the rules are completely inadequate. It doesn't take account of the fact that a team can deliver a message as a code - they can use English, but it has a completely different meaning to how the string of words would normally be interpreted. That's exactly what happened today.

The rule was brought in to stop happening exactly what happened today. So something has to be done about it. Giving a $100,000 fine is in the complete opposite direction of what should happen. This is not going to dent the top teams in any way (and it's the top teams who are only ever involved in this kind of situation), and there's a big push to keep costs down, yet if they get away with it like this, teams will do it again. So I mean, it's a bit of a contradiction to do cost-cutting efforts, yet give a big fine for this kind of incident.

I've been a Ferrari follower for around 16 years, but I think they should both have been disqualified today. Eddie Jordan put it quite well (for once) - they denied an epic 3-way battle for the win. It's crap for the viewers and crap for the spectators who paid hundreds of quid to watch the race.
 
Alan_G
they denied an epic 3-way battle for the win. It's crap for the viewers and crap for the spectators who paid hundreds of quid to watch the race.
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Vettel really wasn't in the fight that much considering Massa let Alonso safely through.
 
driftking18594
Same here. I'm starting to really hate Alonso now.
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Hopefully he can win the title this year so people like you get even more butt hurt :lol: Some of you make it your job to let every little thing Alonso says during a radio transmission bother you to no end :rolleyes:

"OMG...he said "this is ridiculous" I fricking hate that guy even more now! waawaaawaahh :lol:
 
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Ferrari unsurprisingly making a pig's ear of it.

I don't have a problem with team orders but Ferrari didn't deliver it properly or have the story straight afterwards and they've implicated themselves so they should be punished. Clear team order.

Shame about Massa but on performances Alonso is in the best position, just. I thought Massa responded well in the race though today and found a bit of his old self but too little too late. I'm sure Massa considered the bigger picture. If roles were reversed it would be crunch time for Alonso.
 
Agreed. Because disliking anyone for any reason is so immoral, I believe.

The sarcasm, can you see it?

EDIT: Tree'd, that's directed toward timeattack
 
Why wasn't alonso complaining about the race being manipulated... Just a thought
 
Wow I though Ferrari would have had a secret password for team orders :lol: (sarcasm) .Anyway I don't know why did they say it so blatently it is just disrespectful for fans of not only Ferrari or Massa but the F1 fans in general.
 
Ferrari didn't think Massa would be leading, so they didn't do the team order prep correctly.
 
They did it so blatently because Stefano Dimenicalli (sorry if thats spelt wrong) got Massa's race engineer (Rocky) to give him the message. I'm pretty sure that Rocky was also against this decision so he made little effort to cover up the order.
 
I apologise for shamelessly plugging myself here, but I actually wrote in my British GP review last week...

"One can easily forget the number of times Fernando and Felipe have found themselves on the same piece of tarmac this year, a possible situation brewing at Ferrari should not be discounted so readily even if Alonso has comprehensively outperformed Massa so far this year. Felipe should eventually find his feet, as will Ferrari, and then it may well be a different story between these two."

Come on, someone give me a break!! :lol:

All the best
Maz (sorry)
 
Matti_Dude
They did it so blatently because Stefano Dimenicalli (sorry if thats spelt wrong) got Massa's race engineer (Rocky) to give him the message. I'm pretty sure that Rocky was also against this decision so he made little effort to cover up the order.
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Guillaume "Rocky" Rocquelin? Stefano called Red Bull in? :p

Rocky = Vettel's race engineer.
Rob Smedley = Felipe Massa's engineer.

Smedley is probably the most recognisable race engineer ever alongside Jock Clear. Being a Yorkshireman helps :lol:.
 
My Brazilian racing source has basically confirmed that Felipe Massa signed the #2 contract this season. He claims to absolutely 100% know so. He's very very trustworthy and has raced with the likes of Massa and Hamilton, so it's a shame.
 
I doubt thats true, otherwise why didn't Ferrari force Massa over at Australia? Its most likely scare-mongering among the media. Oh would they love another Barrichello story, particularly as Massa is even more popular in Brazil.
 
Fernando was also on the radio in AUS though, but I think Ferrari wouldn't want to pull an Austria / Hockenheim in race 2 of the season though.... That would be way to obvious and completely unfair.
 
Ardius
Guillaume "Rocky" Rocquelin? Stefano called Red Bull in? :p

Rocky = Vettel's race engineer.
Rob Smedley = Felipe Massa's engineer.

Smedley is probably the most recognisable race engineer ever alongside Jock Clear. Being a Yorkshireman helps :lol:.
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Haha my bad, I knew it began with R.
 
Alex.
Fernando was also on the radio in AUS though, but I think Ferrari wouldn't want to pull an Austria / Hockenheim in race 2 of the season though.... That would be way to obvious and completely unfair.
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They could have easily done it with the right radio message ;). But I guess as we just saw, Ferrari are incapable of ambiguous radio calls. I was actually surprised at Australia though - Alonso was visibly being held up there and he lost out because of it. Any other team would have given Massa the "hurry up or move out of the way" call. Here Alonso wasn't being held up that much.
 
Sorry if this has been mention as i have only read some of this tread but if they get fined 100,000 dollars they are guilty so they should get disqualified or a penalty at least. I remember the australia race where Hamilton got caught (told to) lie and they came down on him so why do they not do the same with ferrari.
 
If it has not been confirmed, I am now...
They have been fined 100,00 Euros but the result stands...
I believe that Ferrari should have been docked of all the points gained in this race. I feel sorry for Massa but Ferrari should have been punished harder. 100 grand is the sort of cash they find lieing down the bac of the sofa.
 
It sounds to me like Rob Smedley was so upset by the decision the team made, he made it blatantly obvious that it was a team order. I bet he'll be hauled before the top brass in the morning for a good dressing down (and I'd like to point out that I completely disagree with the way Ferrari went about his and I'm glad he did).
 
I was thinking the same actually. Hopefully Massa sees it that way as well so there strong relationship doesn't crumble.
 
Aldo001
If it has not been confirmed, I am now...
They have been fined 100,00 Euros but the result stands...
I believe that Ferrari should have been docked of all the points gained in this race. I feel sorry for Massa but Ferrari should have been punished harder. 100 grand is the sort of cash they find lieing down the bac of the sofa.
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There will still be an FIA hearing regarding this. That fine is not final.

Ferrari expects the FIA to be lenient... and the FIA may not completely disqualify them from the standings... since Ferrari is a huge draw to F1 races... but a stricter punishment is a big possibility. I don't think 20 seconds is going to cut it... though... :lol:

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It frankly amazes me how Ferrari thought they would get away with that trick... especially after Webber raised such a fuss over the team expecting him to move over for Vettel in Turkey... such issues are still hot topics.

I wouldn't be surprised if Smedley made the message so unambiguous on purpose... and if Massa made it look so clumsy out of spite. Maybe Massa's getting some backbone... or has noticed how Webber's histrionics (the whole wing fiasco was completely unnecessary) have managed to keep his treatment at his team equitable.

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From a strategic point of view, it was necessary to gain the WDC, since Massa is so far down in the standings compared to Alonso. But there were so many ways Ferrari could have handled it better... change Massa's tires a fraction of a second slower... bring Massa in first and allow Fernando time to build up a cushion... or stick Massa on a fuel conservation strategy, slow him down, bring Alonso in, and let Massa suffer with slower lap times and on the softer tires longer. But no... Felipe has to move over on the track. Give Alonso his hero moment. Whoop-de-doo.

You could notice, even with the commentators... the spirit seemed to go out of the race after that... I don't think anybody but Ferrari was happy with that... and they'll have lost a lot of fans due to this.
 


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Oh, and according to Mike Gascoyne 100k is the biggest fine they can give.
 
The spirit of the race did die after that, even of FOX (and let's be honest here...their coverage has no damn spirit anyhow, so just imagine the event being even more boring than it normally would be when FOX is covering it). I'll bring up something I asked earlier: Did you see Massa's face on the podium? His expression spoke louder than we are right now. He kept to his side and the "celebration" wasn't even a proper celebration, if anything the only person happy was Alonso.
 
livemusic
It's a shame that Ferrari has chosen to do this yet again. I think Alonso was quicker enough to be able to overtake Massa with no need for team orders. And that ******** radio talk is just calling all of their fans and all the people who enjoy F1 idiots.
Massa was specially disappointed because he wanted to dedicate this victory for his uncle who died this week.
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Maybe they should look into text messaging. :sly: instead of using the radio. :dopey: We all know it goes on in F1 and everybody thinks it's a stupid ruling maybe it's time they just take the rule out so it's out in the open and the driver that lets the other teamate pass still take the credit for the team win. It's more like the unspoken truth that hurts the guy that lets his teamate pass and denied the credit because they can't say "Yeah I let him pass 'cuz it was better for the team. Stupid,stupid rule.
 
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