2010 Formula One European Grand Prix

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

They don't like Hamilton.

 

[Famine]

I guess that'll be why they threw a bottle at him then.

Wretched fish.

 

[Ardius]

Thanks.
I explained because Hamilton would be behind Alonso and Massa, if he and both ferrari were in the same second, after the penalty, he would be behind, that's logical, right? but the "penalty" was too late, and Hamilton won six positions legally.

Indeed, this doesn't prove Hamilton is the "spoiled child of F1". We've had plenty of penalties before that were given to drivers who weren't really impeded much by it. This particular one is hardly the worst I've ever seen, particularly as Lewis was not cheating, or at least, he wasn't displaying an unsporting attitude.
He broke the rule but by accident. Its fairly clear evidence that it was by accident - why would he slow down if he was intending to overtake it? He could have blasted past the SC while it was still in the pit exit and that would have been fine in the rules. Therefore he wasn't sure what he could do and unfortunately for him he made his decision too late.

 

[TheMoose]

Hamilton didn't know if he was allowed to pass the safety car. He was, but he hesitated and that meant he passed after the safety car line. That is why he passed it too late. That is not cheating. It did not hurt Ferrari at all. If he had stayed behind it, Ferrari's race would not have changed one tiny little bit other that big baby Alonso having the back of a McLaren to look at for the rest of the race because he sure as hell wasn't going to pass one any time soon.

Actually what happened is,
Hamilton slowed down to force the Ferrari's to stay behind the pace car while he was able to pass it, he just missed the timing & passed too late, but it still worked out in his favor in the end since his penalty really didn't cost him anything & Alonso lost all those positions.

 

[daan]

I guess that'll be why they threw a bottle at him then.

That was a bottle? I thought it was Alonso's dummy.

© TM

 

[Ardius]

Actually what happened is,
Hamilton slowed down to force the Ferrari's to stay behind the pace car while he was able to pass it, he just missed the timing & passed too late, but it still worked out in his favor in the end since his penalty really didn't cost him anything & Alonso lost all those positions.

Wow, just wow. Pretty complex planning right there. I think you flatter Lewis' intelligence.

 

[LizMcQueen]

And yet had he overtaken the safety car 0.5s sooner, it wouldn't be illegal. Wonder what the sardines think of that one.

Sardines think it would have been legal, but it would still be wrong, the safety car slow down the race to allow time to clear the track and I prefer clean the track with slow cars.

They don't like Hamilton.

I don't like Hamilton... and Alonso either (in case anyone thought I was an Alonso fan), he's an arrogant and overbearing, reason here (you'll need a translator).

 

[Famine]

Sardines think it would have been legal, but it would still be wrong

Doesn't matter whether you think it's wrong or not. Had Hamilton stayed on the gas (rather than hesistating) and passed the Safety Car before the SC line, it would have been legal.

 

[GTsail]

IMHO - The 5 second penalties are a joke.

Speeding while the safety car is deployed is dangerous (especially to race marshals and any drivers involved in the crash), and any cars doing so EXCESSIVELY should be severely punished. However, if the speeding involved was only say 5 or 10mph over the allowed limit, then perhaps the penalty is appropriate.

Can someone clarify on which lap did the nine drivers get their speeding penalties?

The advantage gained by speeding would depend significantly upon the timing of the speeding.

For example, lets say that the P1-P4 cars are fairly close together on the track when the safety car is deployed, and all four cars queue up behind the safety car, just after the pit entrance is passed. Further lets say that the P5-P9 cars are all some 30 seconds behind P4 on the track when the safety car is deployed.

Lets futher stipulate that the P5-P9 cars have not yet passed the pit entrance when the SC is deployed, so they all immediately dive into the pits for their only tire change of the race. These P5-P9 cars exit the pits and SPEED like crazy to catch back up with the P1-P4 cars who are dutifully proceeding slowly behind the safety car. A 45 second advantage is gained.

Next, the P1-P4 cars all pit for tires at the end of the lap and all four cars get passed by cars P5-P9, which due to their speeding, had closed up right on the back bumper of the P4 car.

Shouldn't a speeding penalty in this case be significant enough to deter/reverse the dangerous behavior?

Respectfully,
GTsail

 

[Ardius]

I'm pretty sure that the speeding cars pitted the lap the safety car was deployed, as Button's excuse was that he was already going into the pitlane so he couldn't set a slower time as he was about to complete the lap.
There isn't much excuse for all 9 cars though, they couldn't have all been about to enter the pitlane though it makes it more difficult to meet the FIA laptime if you have already completed 2 3rds of the lap at speed.

If this is the case then I think the 5 second penalties were sensible. Its not like they were speeding through Webber's accident and like I say, they had already completed most of the lap, so slowing down to meet the FIA time is going to be a bit more difficult as it would require slower than normal speeds. We don't know the specifics of what FIA-guided laptimes each driver was given and how much each driver broke them by. We also don't know how visible those laptimes are when they are all jostling for position in the early laps of the race.

 

[yeti]

Actually what happened is,
Hamilton slowed down to force the Ferrari's to stay behind the pace car while he was able to pass it, he just missed the timing & passed too late, but it still worked out in his favor in the end since his penalty really didn't cost him anything & Alonso lost all those positions.

I've seen this opinion on the BBC 606 forums as well...

I really don't understand it - have you seen the video?

Also - as I stated before - Ferrari knew the SC was out before the passed the pits (So did Hamilton) - yet they didn't pit - they were probably told on the radio that they could get past the SC that hadn't exited the pits yet - unfortunately for them - they didn't...

Ferrari should've at least pitted Massa - so that they didn't have to stack and absolutely ruin his race - in fact had they pitted massa - he would've gotten 3rd place easily - and possibly even 2nd if he could've stuck with Lewis better than Kobo.

Poor strategy call from Ferrari if you ask me.

C.

PS and as a last point - Valencia should be scrubbed from the calendar for letting some ignoramus throw a bottle onto the track.

 

[GTsail]

*snip*I'm pretty sure that the speeding cars pitted the lap the safety car was deployed, as Button's excuse was that he was already going into the pitlane so he couldn't set a slower time as he was about to complete the lap.
.....

Ardius - I get what you are saying about Button. I don't see how they could impose a penalty on him for speeding on the lap prior to his pit stop, if he was just about to enter the pits. Its unlikely that it would be possible to make the lap slow enough to comply with the SC speed if he had already done 90% of the lap at full race speed (perhaps 1 mph for the last 500 feet!).

However, if the penalty was imposed for the lap after the pit stop, then it would make sense since he would be speeding to catch the pack (just like my example).

Hopefully, further infomation will be provided.

Respectfully,
GTsail

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

The time gets calculated from the point they are on the track, based on my understanding.


edit: Looks like Brawn found something better to chew on.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/06/27/brawn-criticises-safety-car-rules/

In our view, the regulations are clear that the exit light should not go red until the line of cars has formed behind the safety car, and we would like the FIA to look into this. There was no line formed and over 18 seconds between Hamilton and Kobayashi when Michael came in.
....
Article 40.10 of the Sporting Regulations says:

Whilst the safety car is in operation, competing cars may enter the pit lane, but may only rejoin the track when the green light at the end of the pit lane is on. It will be on at all times except when the safety car and the line of cars following it are about to pass or are passing the pit exit .

Perhaps a clarification of "line of cars" is in order?

 

[Alex.]

The fan had been standing outside the press conference room after qualifying and managed to grab a talking Sebastian Vettel and Lewis Hamilton prior to their appointments with the television crews.

The fan approached Hamilton and asked if he could have his photo taken with him – but rather than have his mate take it, Vettel offered to do it instead.

Realising he had the chance of killing two birds with one stone, the fan then asked Vettel if he could stop so he could have his picture taken with him.

Hamilton looked over and said to the fan with a big smile on his face: "Man, I can't let you take it yourself – here, I'll do it..."

Very lucky guy, but absolute classic.

 

[Stevisiov]

That's a pretty cool small story. I bet that fan had a good weekend. 👍

 

[lpb-nissan-gt-r]

A big question why did the bbc not interview/congratulate Kobayashi? he had a stunning race. oh Alonso STHU moaning like always.

 

[waggles]

Kobayashi's english isn't the best, judging by Brundle's Brazil gridwalk-although it's excusable, it doesn't make good TV interviewing someone who probably needs a translator.

 

[Seismica]

A big question why did the bbc not interview/congratulate Kobayashi? he had a stunning race. oh Alonso STHU moaning like always.

What happened at the F1 forum in Canada, when Jake Humphrey asked Peter Sauber if he could film the talk with Kobayashi? Peter did say yes... Nothing came of it lol, we missed his telling off

 

[niky]

Ahhhh, yes, I remember, in a F1 Grand Prix is not allowed to use cranes.

Wait... what? Aside from that being completely wrong, it has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Ah, because he's a petulant child who whines about someone he has a grudge against rather than anyone who might actually be responsible.

That too.

Uh... he was talking about Alonso.

Actually what happened is,
Hamilton slowed down to force the Ferrari's to stay behind the pace car while he was able to pass it, he just missed the timing & passed too late, but it still worked out in his favor in the end since his penalty really didn't cost him anything & Alonso lost all those positions.

Wow. And did we miss the part where Hamilton caught up with the safety car right before the safety car line? If Hamilton had passed it, Alonso would still be stuck, and Hamilton might have been able to push Vettel hard enough to finish first.

So... piss off Alonso or win the race... duh... I think Lewis dropped the ball on that one.

Sardines think it would have been legal, but it would still be wrong, the safety car slow down the race to allow time to clear the track and I prefer clean the track with slow cars.

It's legal to pass another racecar on the track... but it's oh so wrong... because, y'know... it's dangerous.

 

[Seismica]

So... piss off Alonso or win the race... duh... I think Lewis dropped the ball on that one.

That's a good way to put it

He did what was best. And what we all probably would have done in his situation

EDIT:

To those who are wondering about the F1 forum, here it is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8768436.stm

There was a power cut, they didn't film any more than this.

 

[Anghammarad]

Uh... he was talking about Alonso.

Yes. And?


Edit: The point was, is and will always remain that by breaking the rules Hamilton gained an unfair advantage that was not rectified by the too late penalty. Also, by deploying the safety car in a manner so as to practically hand the race win to Vettel the race management made a serious error. That almost all of the drivers seems to be whiners is not the issue. Hamilton is as much a petulant child as Alonso, not to mention Vettel, but that does not change the fact that they are all, or at least the former two, magnificent racing drivers with one goal only: To win the driver's championship. It's quite difficult to win if your opponents can break the rules and gain unfair advantages. Or get them handed to them by the race management.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Wow. And did we miss the part where Hamilton caught up with the safety car right before the safety car line?

Hamilton said that he passed it while he was slowing down.

 

[Famine]

The point was, is and will always remain that by breaking the rules Hamilton gained an unfair advantage that was not rectified by the too late penalty.

Nevertheless, the penalty given was the appropriate one as mandated by the regulations and was given at the first moment the stewards were happy that an infringement had occurred.

Alonso benefitted from a similar decision at Monaco where, despite no infringement occurring, a driver was penalised half an hour after the race with a 30s penalty (also a drive-through, applied retroactively) and a rule rewritten to permit it.

Also, by deploying the safety car in a manner so as to practically hand the race win to Vettel the race management made a serious error.

And that's who Alonso should be whining at. Whining at Hamilton just makes him look like a petulant child. Oooh.

It's quite difficult to win if your opponents can break the rules and gain unfair advantages.

What, like getting testing miles on your new blown diffuser just before the European Grand Prix, despite the in-season testing ban?

 

[niky]

Hamilton said that he passed it while he was slowing down.

He slowed down because he wasn't sure where the safety car line was. When he saw he was already past the safety car, he went ahead, anyway, not quite sure whether he'd passed it past the line or not.

Or get them handed to them by the race management.

Which is the only question that deserves answering. Race management dropped the ball on that safety car, but they did the best they could to fix it after the fact.

As I saw it... none of the drivers got away scot-free. Just because the penalties didn't end up the way Alonso liked, doesn't mean they weren't actually penalized.

 

[Ardius]

Alonso should ask what Massa thinks of it, I don't remember him being apologetic when he benefitted from a safety car that screwed his championship. "A win is a win" he said.

A big question why did the bbc not interview/congratulate Kobayashi? he had a stunning race. oh Alonso STHU moaning like always.

I think they were going to, but the post-race forum was cut short because of a power failure at the circuit.

Ardius - I get what you are saying about Button. I don't see how they could impose a penalty on him for speeding on the lap prior to his pit stop, if he was just about to enter the pits. Its unlikely that it would be possible to make the lap slow enough to comply with the SC speed if he had already done 90% of the lap at full race speed (perhaps 1 mph for the last 500 feet!).

However, if the penalty was imposed for the lap after the pit stop, then it would make sense since he would be speeding to catch the pack (just like my example).

Hopefully, further infomation will be provided.

Respectfully,
GTsail

I just came across this quote from Sutil post-race:

We made the call to come into the pits at the right time - when the safety car went out I was in the last sector and could go in the pits straight away and then moved up the order when the front guys came in.

So I can confirm all the drivers except the leaders pitted only seconds after the SC was deployed.

 

[daan]

To those who are wondering about the F1 forum, here it is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8768436.stm

There was a power cut, they didn't film any more than this.

Bunkum and balderdash. They just wanted to watch the England game.

 

[Anghammarad]

And that's who Alonso should be whining at. Whining at Hamilton just makes him look like a petulant child. Oooh.

And he probably would have if he hadn't been driving at 300 km/h at the same time. In the heat of the moment you seldom say your most intelligent things.

Then again he may not. I'm not a fan of Alonso as a person, I've never met him or even read or seen any interviews with him. He's most probably an arrogant person, a character trait that I seriously dislike. What I do like however is his racing abilities, which is on par with anyone on the starting grid of a F1 race.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Bunkum and balderdash. They just wanted to watch the England game.

Truth No. 1

I switched to Freeview channel 301 which the forum is on to be presented with the exact same live coverage of the England - Germany match that was shown on BBC1 at exactly the same time. Really good use of my licence fee.

 

[Ardius]

Then again he may not. I'm not a fan of Alonso as a person, I've never met him or even read or seen any interviews with him. He's most probably an arrogant person, a character trait that I seriously dislike. What I do like however is his racing abilities, which is on par with anyone on the starting grid of a F1 race.

Although recently he has been pretty dozy, this is the 3rd time in 4 races that Fred has been caught napping. Schumacher at Monaco (kind of understandable), Button at Montreal and this time Kobayashi. He's made a lot of mistakes this year.

 

[niky]

Although recently he has been pretty dozy, this is the 3rd time in 4 races that Fred has been caught napping. Schumacher at Monaco (kind of understandable), Button at Montreal and this time Kobayashi. He's made a lot of mistakes this year.

To be fair... Kobayashi's overtake was spectacular, but remember, fresh, fresh tires versus worn ones. Schumacher's... well... it was a safety car... the overtakes by Hamilton and Button were doozies, though.

Alonso is being quite cautious this year... trying to preserve whatever points he can get from his position... I think he can be forgiven for not trying to punt overtakers off the road like Schumi does...

And despite those lapses, he's one of the few guys out there challenging the Red Bulls and McLarens. At times, his pace versus Massa has been incredible.

Still think he's a prat. Even more so than Vettel and Hamilton (consider how much older he is!)... but that's part of his charm.