2010 Formula One Turkish Grand Prix

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Check the video I posted on #358 0:15 sec in the video Vettle starts to go right of Webber knowing he's going to try and block him. As soon as Vettle gets close enough he swerves left and makes the pass while Webber puts the sqease but was to late. Thats when Webber went right first then left. Watch the video again 0:15
 
Dan_
C'mon guys, I can't believe you're still discussing this.....

Vettel is guilty, it's clear by all images, all videos and all evidences. Webber defended his position clearly in a straight line.
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Apparently it isn't *shrug*

Dan_
If I were Mark, I would punch Seb. :grumpy:
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That's happened before too. Not necessarily between teammates, mind. In fact Interlagos last year, when Sutil and Trulli had a bit of fisticuffs, on track...

Radracing
Check the video I posted on #358 0:15 sec in the video Vettle starts to go right of Webber knowing he's going to try and block him. As soon as Vettle gets close enough he swerves left and makes the pass while Webber puts the sqease but was to late. Thats when Webber went right first then left. Watch the video again 0:15
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I did watch it. It's utter garbage. Webber never moved left. As he exited the corner (on the left) he immediately went right to the centre of the track - textbook. Vettel also went right briefly (feinting) then ducked left to the inside like most racing drivers would - textbook. No squeezing happened.
 
Dan_
C'mon guys, I can't believe you're still discussing this.....

Vettel is guilty, it's clear by all images, all videos and all evidences. Webber defended his position clearly in a straight line.

If I were Mark, I would punch Seb. :grumpy:
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Yes, but straight line to the dirty side not straightline to the clean raceline which is to the right. And yes too, he should have punched Vettle and they should air it on live TV. Just like Paul Tracy with other drivers makes for good entertainment. Then we would be arguing who got the better punch, upper cut, right hook, or dropkick. :sly:

We can all agree to disagree also makes for good forum. :dopey:

Famine: Are you sure? Looks like it's time for a poll. hehe!
 
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Dan_
C'mon guys, I can't believe you're still discussing this.....

Vettel is guilty, it's clear by all images, all videos and all evidences. Webber defended his position clearly in a straight line.

If I were Mark, I would punch Seb. :grumpy:
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If I were Mark, I would punch Seb while the team was changing the front wing... Then I'd punch him again after seeing the replay of his "loony" gesture, and once more after hearing his interview blaming me...

And I'd punch him twice as hard because of him being my teammate.

But that's just me, I have a medical condition. It's called "stupidity intolerance".
 
Radracing
Yes, but straight line to the dirty side not straightline to the clean raceline which is to the right.
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Regardless, straightline is fair even if they were driving on the gravel, Mark left space for Vettel, and that's visible. Wheter if that was in a clean or dirty section of the track is irrelevant.

Radracing
And yes too, he should have punched Vettle and they should air it on live TV. Just like Paul Tracy with other drivers makes for good entertainment. Then we would be arguing who got the better punch, upper cut, right hook, or dropkick. :sly:
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Well, they do some GYM training, it wouldn't be a complete waste of time to watch. :D

Radracing
We can all agree to disagree also makes for good forum. :dopey:
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Very true.
 
I agree with Radracing (see his poll thread), but I still think Vettel was foolish to try and make that move at that point (as left not best place for the coming corner), and not fair that they had different 'tune'; and both were being chased (down?) by Hamilton.

So I would say a stupid racing incident between teammates, as it only really benefitted Hamilton and Button in the end eh!

Now someone start the Montreal 👍 thread eh:)
 
Radracing
Famine: Are you sure? Looks like it's time for a poll. hehe!
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Very. The car on which the camera is mounted moves right, so the other moving object appears to move left. The reality is that the gap between the other car and the left of the track does not diminish.
 
Famine
Very. The car on which the camera is mounted moves right, so the other moving object appears to move left. The reality is that the gap between the other car and the left of the track does not diminish.
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Check the gap between Webber and the white line while Vettle is in between. Thats 0:15 to 0:18 in the video and then do the new poll I put up. :)
 
This thread is getting like the Israeli aid convoy 'incident'; luckily no one died in the racing 'incident' (final comment!) !
 
The run up to T12 is not a clean straight line. And on top of the hill where it all started it turns right a good bit.

I never said Webber didn't defend, actually I think he saw Vettel in his mirrors and didn't keep 100% to the "normal" racing line through that section, but also do not think that it was blocking, since it's a weaving bit and there is margin to go more or less to one side at any time, as you see fit. And when it appears he would have squeezed Vettel to the left, it was just him helding his line a bit wider through the top of the hill when the track turns a bit right. All normal defensive racing to me, even between teammates. Schumacher did it to Button more than once, before Button found the gap through the outside.

When Vettel committed to the left and went along side, Webber stopped moving (if he ever was) and now 100% on a straight with a car beside him, he kept straight, or even slightly right. More than perfect.

The clash happens when Vettel veers right suddenly. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
hornet_burnout
The run up to T12 is not a clean straight line. And on top of the hill where it all started it turns right a good bit.

I never said Webber didn't defend, actually I think he saw Vettel in his mirrors and didn't keep 100% to the "normal" racing line through that section, but also do not think that it was blocking, since it's a weaving bit and there is margin to go more or less to one side at any time, as you see fit. And when it appears he would have squeezed Vettel to the left, it was just him helding his line a bit wider through the top of the hill when the track turns a bit right. All normal defensive racing to me, even between teammates. Schumacher did it to Button more than once, before Button found the gap through the outside.

When Vettel committed to the left and went along side, Webber stopped moving (if he ever was) and now 100% on a straight with a car beside him, he kept straight, or even slightly right. More than perfect.

The clash happens when Vettel veers right suddenly. Nothing more, nothing less.
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The only sudden movement is when contact was made and the car swerved right due to contact.
 
Radracing
The only sudden movement is when contact was made and the car swerved right due to contact.
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Are you watching the same videos to the ones everyone else is watching? Vettel went right as he steered right. When the contact happened, because Vettel steered into Webber, the nose of Vettel's car goes right, so he steers left, but he only steered left after the contact. Vettel's car swerved right due to contact because he steered right.
 
Normally the manouever Vettel did would hardly be called sudden. But when your that close to someone else (Vettel) it's virtually impossible to avoid them in time.

Having seen the video again I am now sure that it was entirely Vettel's fault, he had enough space before he swerved to the right and the move was entirely unneccessary.
 
It seems the discussions grow longer with every F1 thread that is being made. And this one certainly hasn't come to a stop yet, it seems. I call 25 pages instead of the current 19 for the next round! :lol:
 
I don't know why the dirty line is repeatedly brought up - Vettel could have completed a successful overtake quite easy on the dirty line as thats where almost all the overtakes happen at Turn 12.
 
I can care less about either of these drivers (Lewis #1 =) )but I gotta agree with the RedBull team. Webber is in fact more at fault.

Don't get me wrong Vettel should have been more careful as well and maintain a straight line but he didn't.None of this would have ever happened if Webber would have just given the guy the freaking space for crying out loud. They were entering the breaking zone so far left it looked so crazy.



 
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Radracing
We can all agree to disagree also makes for good forum. :dopey:
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No need to disagree.

As we can see from the vidcap, it's pretty apparent Ricky Hatton hit Manny Pacquiao's glove with his face.

pac-ko-hatton.jpg


No doubt about it. Nosiree.

Dan_
If I were Mark, I would punch Seb. :grumpy:
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Sadly, the politics of Formula1 denies us even this.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/6/10869.html

Sonzilla
None of this would have ever happened if Webber would have just given the guy the freaking space for crying out loud. They were entering the breaking zone so far left it looked so crazy.
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Mark picked his line before Sebastian made his move. He didn't choose to make Vettel go left. Vettel decided to go left all on his own.
 
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niky
No need to disagree.

As we can see from the vidcap, it's pretty apparent Ricky Hatton hit Manny Pacquiao's glove with his face.

pac-ko-hatton.jpg


No doubt about it. Nosiree.
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Really? Cause it looks the other way around to me; like Pacquiao just KO'd Hatton with his sweaty armpit smell...:scared:
 
Sonzilla
None of this would have ever happened if Webber would have just given the guy the freaking space for crying out loud.
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Yes, it also would't happen if it had rained. Or one of the cars had engine trouble, or... you get my point. Life is a string of events. It's how you react to those events and the result of your actions that counts. Yes Vettel was under pressure, and yes he drove into Mark.

Enough with the "give him space". This is not a road, this is RACING. If Vettel can't take the heat, he should get out of the kitchen all together.

Mark Webber did NOT reach out into the other car and turned Vettels wheel right, or did he? Because that's the only way I'd see him at fault here.
 
I think this picture sums up why we need to give the argument over the crash a rest:

155387.jpg


Obviously, they have.
 
And before we go again back on to the "but they're teammates!" debate - teammates are still competing against each other, they were both joint-leading the championship and the overtake was effectively a change of lead for the championship too. It was crucially important that Webber defended this particular position, regardless of what the team wanted.
In this scenario, you let the drivers sort out who should be 1st on the track, Red Bull would be wrong to order Webber to move out of the way even if he was slower and Webber was well within his right to defend his position.

astrosdude91
I think this picture sums up why we need to give the argument over the crash a rest:

155387.jpg


Obviously, they have.
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Ardius
If anyone thinks this is over and done with now, they are very wrong! :lol: (could they make the picture look any more forced? :lol:)
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More like they got bollocked back at Milton Keynes.
I see no reason why we should stop discussing the crash - this is what forums are for! We still discuss many crashes and incidents many years after the drivers involved have moved on.
 
Just watch Hamilton (and other, but him mostly) and the different lines approaching, braking and taking T12 and T13 on this:



That's what I'd like to see more in F1. More room, less room, inside, outside, dirty track, clean line... pfff
 
hornet_burnout
Just watch Hamilton (and other, but him mostly) and the different lines approaching, braking and taking T12 and T13 on this:


Look at how Schumacher takes the central line. Hamilton goes down the outside. Schumacher squeezes him out on the exit.

Exactly the same happened in Turkey, but Vettel chose the inside line and made a hash of it.
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And everything happens much faster, and F1 cars are so "perfectly" tuned and built that it's harder to go outside of the ideal line, and the clean line gets a lot narrower in F1.

But my point with this was to illustrate that those optional lines exist (even in F1) and the crash was not a result of that. It was a result of during it, Vettel turned right too soon and into Webber.
 
SUPER NUMBBER
Really? Cause it looks the other way around to me; like Pacquiao just KO'd Hatton with his sweaty armpit smell...:scared:
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Nonsense... Pacquiao uses Axe...

EDIT:

155387.jpg


Seriously, though... that's worse acting than "Home Alone". I'm just waiting for the thought balloon photochops to come... :lol:
 
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