2010 Formula One Turkish Grand Prix

[BlacqueJacques]

Lewis did not see what happened !

Next Montreal !

 

[Bram Turismo]

I think it was just a battle for position;

I agree with that, but it must be so frustrating for Petrov that it had to end with a flat tyre. I was enjoying the Petrov - Alonso battle bigtime, too bad it didn't last.

 

[Seismica]

Imagine if the cars of McLaren underweight because no fuel left!

I'm worried about the plank on Jenson's Mclaren aswell, he was running a lower ride height than Lewis. Hopefully there won't be something similar to the Silverstone FIA GT1 race where the front two drivers were given penalties, and the 3rd placed car was given the win.

Did you see Webber showing Lewis what Vettel did!

Webber is choked!

Hey I thought I was watching this live? You saw it a full 5 minutes before me


Definitely the most exciting race of the season I loved how Mclaren were matching the pace of the Red Bulls.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

TSN in Canada was actually live!

Going to be an interesting 2 weeks before Montreal!

 

[BlacqueJacques]

Back to chores and some online racing; and a nap later during the Indy 500; darn these 4:30 a.m. F1 races

Oops, sorry for the double post!

 

[mynameissport]

Well a quick sum of the grand prix from my own view. It is not that bad race actually....

Red Bull scored an own goal and shot themselves in the foot with their overtake siutation that does not help both Webber or Vetal at all and neither it does not help in the constructors championship. If you like to see them crash and get together again if you live in the UK then view the link below:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8713653.stm

McLaren have improved their car and at least kept pace with the Red Bull pair but it was a little shame for Hamilton not making the move stick up against Webber in the first part of the race. Button did a good overtake to Schumi and just stayed and took advantage of the Red Bull situation. Thought it was a little funny with Button and Hamilton having a near coming together near the end of the race and having to slow down to save fuel all because they had to go fast to keep in touch with the Red Bull.

Ferrari did not have a good 800th GP and is a little concern that they are off the pace from Red Bull and McLaren. Shame for Petrov to not score points because of the puncture towards the end. Good results for Kobayashi getting the first point for Sauber.

Let's see...next up Indy 500 at 5:30pm here in the UK and then watch World Superbikes in the evening.

 

[waggles]

That was Webber's fault. What a dick. Vettle clearly was running faster and had a huge jump on him.

I don't see your point.

Even if you're running faster, you don't just have a clear run. Vettel had a car and a half of room, and Mark doesn't have to give him more. Vettel just kept pushing right-both DC and MB agreed that Vettel was being far too presumptuous in the expectation that he would get room.

Again, as DC mentioned, there is no place in either the written rules or verbal agreement with the drivers that would state that Mark has to give more room.

The only two occasions where an overtake without enough room has occured both include Hamilton-on Barrichello in Brazil, which gave Rubens a puncture, and on Raikonnen at Spa, and we all know where that ended up.

 

[Feschka]

Bah, watching and rewatching the crash it seems Webber is not only giving no room, he's slightly but clearly pushing Vettel to the left limit of the track, I'm not at all sure it's all Seb's fault.

 

[JacoJa]

I think it was purely Vettels fault, although Webber could have given him more room. I wanted to throw a brick at the telly when I saw the collision.

This video hasn't been removed from youtube just yet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzqqrVjEmyA

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm sorry, Fernando, but there's no polite way to put this: you suck.

Actually, there probably is a politer way to put it, but let's be perfectly honest here: you earned it this time, mate. Twelfth in qualifying is understandable; it can't aways be your day. But you then spent most of the race looking at Petrov's rear wing despite being told that he'd crack in due course. You had him - twenty laps later. And then you killed his weekend when you cut across him, despite knowingthat you had the racing line. A thoroughly Rejectful performance.

I also disagree with the notion that Vettel is solely to blame for the incident with Webber. It's easy to get complacent about it all because we can see the front wing during on-board shots, but the drivers can't. Nor can he rightly turn his head ninety degrees to see what's either side of him; HANS prevents it and even if it were manageable, the monocoque obscures your vision. And even if you could do all of that, add in the fact that Vettel and Webber were side-by-side at the fastest point on the circuit and entering the best overtaking point, and you can see how it could be construed as a racing incident. So I agree with Eddie Jordan on two counts: 1) what was Vettel supposed to so, stay behind Webber all race? and 2) it was Vettel's error, but that doesn't make it Vettel's fault.

Also a big shout out to the Australian commentators who claimed not to be patriotic about calling th race, but didn't bother disguising the anger in their voices. Morons.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Webber should have given Vettel more room. That's what you are supposed to do with your teammate. You don't fight them like you do other drivers.

Overall even though it was Vettel's fault, in that he hit Webber and not the other way around, I see that as a 50-50.

 

[Seismica]

Vettel touched the grass, and when asked he said (and I quote) "I lost control of the car". you could see him fighting the wheel. He didn't turn in on Webber intentionally, he just couldn't avoid straying off the line because of the bumps.

It was neither of their faults to be honest. With Hindsight, Webber could have given him more room, Vettel could have held the car on the white line.

Vettel was too aggressive in my opinion. We see this in all teams, the more aggressive driver is regarded as the faster of the two.

Alonso is more aggressive than Massa.
Vettel is more aggressive than Webber.
Hamilton is more aggressive than Button (Though Hamilton is learning, as we saw when he re-took the position towards the end, they both gave eachother plenty of room, even with the contact).
Kubica is more aggressive than Petrov (Kubica squeezed out Kobayashi at Spain, he squeezed out Massa at the beginning of this race. Very fast but he's a bit wreckless and selfish at times).

We saw what happens when you get two aggressive teammates, between Alonso and Hamilton.

Sometimes aggression works. But occasionally you get incidents like this. Vettel was the aggressor, and I feel the majority of the blame lies with him, though indeed, Webber should have given him more room earlier. We did see him turn away in the replay, but Vettel had turned in before him and they made contact.

EDIT:

Hamilton just commented that Vettel turned in on him into turn 1 off the line, giving him no room. He said Vettel did something similar to Webber into turn 12. Again, it's the aggressive driving of Vettel accompanied with his relative inexperience, which causes incidents such as this. Like i've mentioned, Hamilton was the same a couple of seasons ago, but through his experiences he has learned to curb his aggression on the track in certain circumstances.

EDIT2:

Just listening to Eddie Jordan and Anthony Davidson quarrelling over the lack of fuel in the Mclarens... I do think the 'lack of fuel' was just a ploy to get the drivers to back off in order to prevent contact.

 

[red7]

First off, great gp!👍 Saw a replay of the red bull incident twice. Seems to me that yes, Webber did pressure Vettel close to the grass but not off the track. Webber is known for this but Vettel DID cut very suddenly back to the right across of Webber. I don't know if the camera view changed depth perception that much, but, I have to say it looked like it was Vettel's incident to avoid.

 

[Only_in_f1]

Just listening to Eddie Jordan and Anthony Davidson quarrelling over the lack of fuel in the Mclarens... I do think the 'lack of fuel' was just a ploy to get the drivers to back off in order to prevent contact.

I think they have a good point, They told Lewis that both cars had the same instruction yet a lap later, Button was right on course and next to Hamilton. I think it could have been the same with Vettel and Webber with the 'one car told to turn down the other up'

 

[red7]

Could you imagine if after the red bull collision, mclaren took themselves out in their own scrap. Webber would've won anyway with schumacher and Rosberg joing him on the podium. Insanity.

 

[Ardius]

Is Jenson saving fuel, or has his car been damaged in the minor collision with Lewis?

And Algersuari has the fastest lap, interesting...

Saving fuel - Lewis admitted later that he was saving fuel perhaps a bit too much, which started the short scrap between him and Jenson.
No team orders there, just common sense.

Alguesuari pitted for new tyres a 2nd time, thats why he set fastest lap. Doesn't mean anything, as usual (fairly pointless statistic).

I'm sorry, Fernando, but there's no polite way to put this: you suck.

Actually, there probably is a politer way to put it, but let's be perfectly honest here: you earned it this time, mate. Twelfth in qualifying is understandable; it can't aways be your day. But you then spent most of the race looking at Petrov's rear wing despite being told that he'd crack in due course. You had him - twenty laps later. And then you killed his weekend when you cut across him, despite knowingthat you had the racing line. A thoroughly Rejectful performance.

I also disagree with the notion that Vettel is solely to blame for the incident with Webber. It's easy to get complacent about it all because we can see the front wing during on-board shots, but the drivers can't. Nor can he rightly turn his head ninety degrees to see what's either side of him; HANS prevents it and even if it were manageable, the monocoque obscures your vision. And even if you could do all of that, add in the fact that Vettel and Webber were side-by-side at the fastest point on the circuit and entering the best overtaking point, and you can see how it could be construed as a racing incident. So I agree with Eddie Jordan on two counts: 1) what was Vettel supposed to so, stay behind Webber all race? and 2) it was Vettel's error, but that doesn't make it Vettel's fault.

Also a big shout out to the Australian commentators who claimed not to be patriotic about calling th race, but didn't bother disguising the anger in their voices. Morons.

Fernando sucks? Someone is getting a bit high and mighty about Petrov methinks, I remember you were the one bigging him up at the start of the season.
Now here's my turn to be high and mighty - I'd like to think this race affirmed what I said a few weeks ago about the Renault being a better car than people admit. Ferrari have now visibly fallen behind them and I don't think its any lack of skill that stopped Alonso getting past (though it was good driving from Petrov, if a little over-defensive at times). Alonso was a bit rough overtaking, but then Petrov really turned into him.

Can we please agree that Renault are not rubbish? That car is not a pile of trash and Petrov is not a super-rookie.

As for Vettel, sounds like pathetic excuses in my opinion. Did Vettel forget Webber was there? There is no excuse about not seeing him and he turned far too quickly for Webber to even react. There is no excuse. If you were in the same position, couldn't see to your side, would you too turn into your teammate? Use your brain.
The only thing Webber did wrong was push him a bit too much just before the overtake. But I can't see how its Webbers fault at all - he had no chance to react and Vettel could have just driven straight. Vettel caused the incident, end of story.

Pleased anyway with that result, mostly because we continue to have a close championship, though the fading Ferrari is disappointing. Congrats to Kobayashi on 1st 2010 points, good double-finish for Sauber.
Good drives from Petrov, Hamilton, Button and Senna. Everyone else really were quite average. Lotus proved all is not well with the Xtrac hydraulics still.

 

[J-PaP]

Ardius - I can't remember now if and when Lotus said they were going to implement their own hydraulics system. Any idea when it is?

 

[Peter]

Sounds like it was a very exiting race, with lots of incidents. Too bad I missed it. Ferrari isn't fading, they just didn't have a good weekend. They'll do better next race.

Anyways, I've looked at the crash, and, Vettel is trying to get by on the straight, drafts, he tries to get the inside line going into the next corner, and gets past, but he turned back onto the racing line a bit too early so, they made contact and got his right rear punctured. Vettel shouldn't have moved back on so early ,and Webber should have backed off to prevent an accident and try again later.

 

[hornet_burnout]

Vettel still acts as the #1 driver on the team AND on F1. He discard Webber's accomplishments like in qualifying saying "there's no points in qualif". This time he just expected Webber to have made his life easier. That is not going to happen. The sooner he realizes Webber is on top of the game, that he's is worthy of it and on par with the best, the better for both of them.

 

[Ardius]

Ardius - I can't remember now if and when Lotus said they were going to implement their own hydraulics system. Any idea when it is?

Silverstone probably, apparently thats the last major update they are doing. I also wonder when they are going to create their own gearbox, that was the other major thing they wanted to implement, seems Xtrac can't build gearboxes properly either.

 

[Seismica]

Can we please agree that Renault are not rubbish? That car is not a pile of trash and Petrov is not a super-rookie.

Been saying that since the start

 

[The Outlaw]

I'm sorry, Fernando, but there's no polite way to put this: you suck.

Actually, there probably is a politer way to put it, but let's be perfectly honest here: you earned it this time, mate. Twelfth in qualifying is understandable; it can't aways be your day. But you then spent most of the race looking at Petrov's rear wing despite being told that he'd crack in due course. You had him - twenty laps later. And then you killed his weekend when you cut across him, despite knowingthat you had the racing line. A thoroughly Rejectful performance..

Also a big shout out to the Australian commentators who claimed not to be patriotic about calling th race, but didn't bother disguising the anger in their voices. Morons.

Funny how all of your anti Alonso banter revolves soley around the fact that your countryman was unable to score points due to that incident Had it been any other driver in Petrov's position I can almost guarantee you wouldn't have said a damn thing regarding how rejectful you found Fernando's performance to be today

 

[red7]

Just watched the above video half dozen times. I don't care how Vettel wants to see it, he just turned right into Webber.

 

[Greycap]

Overall even though it was Vettel's fault, in that he hit Webber and not the other way around, I see that as a 50-50.

Pretty much this. When I first saw the incident I actually thought it was going to lead into a right hander seeing how far left the cars were. I see no reason for Webber to push Vettel that far, nor not to lift off when the other guy is already half a car length ahead approaching the braking zone - had they not crashed there it would probably have happened during turn-in. Then again I see no reason for Vettel to turn right into Webber.

 

[TheMoose]

[rant]
What a pair of IDIOTS!!!
Hello! Vettel have you ever met Mark Webber? The hardest guy in F1 to pass!
Hello Webber, Vettel is your freaking team mate, you do not pressure him like that!!
Both of them at fault EPIC FAIL! 👎

That said I'm sick & tired of all the stupidity in F1.
Hey FIA, you like making rules, here is a couple.

1. Absolutely no blocking allowed, you make a blocking move at all BAM, drive through penalty.

2. Anyone that swerves to take an overtaking car to the edge of the track gets a drive through penalty.

Honestly, this is freaking Formula 1, I've seen better driving etiquette in SCCA racing!
[/rant]

 

[red7]

I think Vettel has let the pressures of mechanical failures and bad luck cloud his on-track logic. He just got too excited in the moment. A few laps later, Button and Hamilton showed how teammates can fight hard on the edge while still using some degree common sense.💡

 

[Peter]

[rant]
What a pair of IDIOTS!!!
Hello! Vettel have you ever met Mark Webber? The hardest guy in F1 to pass!
Hello Webber, Vettel is your freaking team mate, you do not pressure him like that!!
Both of them at fault EPIC FAIL! 👎

That said I'm sick & tired of all the stupidity in F1.
Hey FIA, you like making rules, here is a couple.

1. Absolutely no blocking allowed, you make a blocking move at all BAM, drive through penalty.

2. Anyone that swerves to take an overtaking car to the edge of the track gets a drive through penalty.

Honestly, this is freaking Formula 1, I've seen better driving etiquette in SCCA racing!
[/rant]

No blocking allowed? So next time someone tries to pass for the race lead, just let them pass and lose the race? That's stupid. Swerving to push someone to the edge of the track is dangerous, but no one should be penalized for it, unless the person who is getting pushed goes off and crashes, and the other one just runs away from it, no harm done, then they should do something.

 

[Ardius]

[rant]
What a pair of IDIOTS!!!
Hello! Vettel have you ever met Mark Webber? The hardest guy in F1 to pass!
Hello Webber, Vettel is your freaking team mate, you do not pressure him like that!!
Both of them at fault EPIC FAIL! 👎

That said I'm sick & tired of all the stupidity in F1.
Hey FIA, you like making rules, here is a couple.

1. Absolutely no blocking allowed, you make a blocking move at all BAM, drive through penalty.

2. Anyone that swerves to take an overtaking car to the edge of the track gets a drive through penalty.

Honestly, this is freaking Formula 1, I've seen better driving etiquette in SCCA racing!
[/rant]

Webber was well within his right to block, yes it was aggressive and yes maybe he shouldn't do it to his teammate, but as far as racing rules go, it was perfectly fine to defend like that (within reason, if he had done it the same way as Vettel, i.e. moved over really fast, then it would have been out of order. As it is, he just edged him over, it was Vettel's choice to keep his foot in).

The FIA doesn't need to do anything for this incident, Vettel got his just-deserves through retirement.

As PJ said, do we want to outlaw racing? Drivers should be able to defend and pass as they like without fearing reprimands. If we penalise every little move, the drivers will be too scared to overtake and block, nevermind being unable to because of aero rules.
The only rule regards to blocking is only one move allowed while ahead, this is purely to stop weaving from in front and dangerous collisions. Otherwise, its fairly open on what you can do, its just common sense racing really. If someone is coming up on the inside, you try to block or pressure them into pulling out of the move. If they pass, then you try to counter attack on the other side, follow through or hold your line. Defensive driving is just as important as overtaking.

 

[TheMoose]

No blocking allowed? So next time someone tries to pass for the race lead, just let them pass and lose the race? That's stupid. Swerving to push someone to the edge of the track is dangerous, but no one should be penalized for it, unless the person who is getting pushed goes off and crashes, and the other one just runs away from it, no harm done, then they should do something.

Webber was well within his right to block, yes it was aggressive and yes maybe he shouldn't do it to his teammate, but as far as racing rules go, it was perfectly fine to defend like that (within reason, if he had done it the same way as Vettel, i.e. moved over really fast, then it would have been out of order. As it is, he just edged him over, it was Vettel's choice to keep his foot in).

The FIA doesn't need to do anything for this incident, Vettel got his just-deserves through retirement.

As PJ said, do we want to outlaw racing? Drivers should be able to defend and pass as they like without fearing reprimands. If we penalise every little move, the drivers will be too scared to overtake and block, nevermind being unable to because of aero rules.

There is nothing wrong with fighting for positions, & no where did I say just let him pass, however this blocking & swerving is just bad sportsmanship.

 

[Ardius]

There is nothing wrong with fighting for positions, & no where did I say just let him pass, however this blocking & swerving is just bad sportsmanship.

I don't think it warrants the FIA coming into penalise them though more than they already have been, they were punished with their DNF and 3rd place respectively.