2010 Formula One Turkish Grand Prix

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But,...that would suggest that Vettel knew that Webber was in some way disadvantaged,..again, that suggests team orders were prevalent.
 
I find it kinda funny that the poll on the F1 website about whose fault was it is a dead 33.81% for both Webber and Vettel.
 
Fastas
But,...that would suggest that Vettel knew that Webber was in some way disadvantaged,..again, that suggests team orders were prevalent.
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Or he had no idea other than Webber was on a slightly slower lap giving him an opportunity.Vettel would be thinking that he's not likely to be as slow next lap...
 
Fastas
I am very willing to discuss but, as you implied, 'Webber could have moved over' is to suggest that Webber did something wrong. I'm merely saying that Webber didn't need to move over,...if you don't agree then I don't have a problem with that.

As Webber said 'there was plenty of race race left to run'. I think the more pertinent discussion maybe held on the topic of why Vettel did what he did.
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Notice I said could, not should. Huge difference. Step away from the keyboard, comprehend what is being said.

Team mates usually give eachother abit of breathing space, whether attacking or defending (Unless you're Alonso that is). Because at the end of the day they are racing for the team, even if they see that as secondary in the heat of the moment.

I can understand entirely Webber defending his position, he gave Vettel enough space, but not by much.
 
Alex.
Or he had no idea other than Webber was on a slightly slower lap giving him an opportunity.
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Okay, that's a fair point. Vettel had the opportunity to pass Webber, so in choosing to attempt to make the pass on the left and not the right side, did Vettel make the right decision?

ExigeEvan
Step away from the keyboard, comprehend what is being said.
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If you want a petty argument send me a pm :)
 
I think it would be interesting to contemplate what would have happened if Vettel managed to successfully overtake Webber. It would have shown Mark, and indeed the rest of the F1 teams, that Vettel means business and definitely fancies himself for the world title. It was a gamble for personal prestige but he lost out and nearly took Mark with him. Vettel was in his own race at the point of contact. But these incidents add to the colourful tapestry of what has already been a thoroughly entertaining F1 season. Here's hoping for another great weekend at Canada.
 
In my opinion, this will not be the last incident that we will see from these two. Both had culpability, but in different percentages. Just as we saw the boys from Mclaren risk their race today in the same way, but with a better outcome, and just as we saw the two Ferrari's battle each other in Singapore (I think that's the race), pushing each other around and cutting across entering the pits. When teams have two number "1" drivers, each with equal equipment, this will happen. I expect this season will be filled with this type of intra-team action, with the top teams all having 'champion or almost-champion' drivers. With what happened in this race, it may prolong when the next incident occurs, but it will happen again. (Can't wait)👍
 
Fastas
Okay, that's a fair point. Vettel had the opportunity to pass Webber, so in choosing to attempt to make the pass on the left and not the right side, did Vettel make the right decision?
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When you pick a side you pick a side man, Webber wouldn't have been expecting it, plus he already moved over to the right a bit. If Webber had allowed room we'd be praising him for a ballsy overtake right now. Still mainly SV at fault though for the whole thing.
 
Alex.
When you pick a side you pick a side man, Webber wouldn't have been expecting it, plus he already moved over to the right a bit. If Webber had allowed room we'd be praising him for a ballsy overtake right now. Still mainly SV at fault though for the whole thing.
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I agree that once you've decided the side there's no changing your mind. I just think it was the wrong side to choose. Vettel could have gone on either side, he fainted right and went left. He didn't give himself a chance to get to or make the corner though. I think he realised this, and tried to move over.

Again, it would be interesting to hear what other drivers would do in that situation or, which side they would pick. Button's pass on Hamilton showed the kind of maturity and foresight to make the right move for that given situation, Vettel's did not.
 
Well you can say he fainted right or maybe he actually wanted right but couldn't due to Mark moving over. It's an interesting one.
 
Alex.
Well you can say he fainted right or maybe he actually wanted right but couldn't due to Mark moving over. It's an interesting one.
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Definitely. With all the communications on fuel levels, it did make me wonder if banning radio transmissions would actually help the spectacle.
 
This whole thing reminds me of a similar situation back in '07 when Vettel was still with STR. Vettel crashed into Webber with the saftey car out in Japan. Webber said this after the race:

Mark Webber
Well it's kids, isn't it. Kids with not enough experience, doing a good job then they 🤬 it all up
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He may have been thinking the same thing. But they are both older and wiser. So they'll talk this out and come out of this stronger.
 
I too was thinking of Fuji 07. It's painful to watch that race :nervous:
 
All I can say is...
:ouch:

But I still love you Red Bull:tup: But it will be Mclaren's race next week, unless RedBull pulls an (effective) F-Duct out of their...
 
scope72
But it will be Mclaren's race next week, unless RedBull pulls an (effective) F-Duct out of their...
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< F-DUCT >

Friends:
|
Dont
Underestimate
Cunning
Technology
 
chromatic9
Have you not heard what Chris Horner said after the race?

I would stick up for Mark myself but the team has told the drivers to give each other room. Vettel had passed and they should be making their way over to the racing line and not allow Hamilton a chance. It was a selfish move and quite risky at that location which you'd expect on an opposing team driver. Considering everything I doubt some of the Red Bull team ie the main people at Red Bull would be liking Mark right now but not "hate on him".
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Horner's comments come across as taking sides to be honest, which may as well be hate. If he was really talking in the interests of the team, he wouldn't support Vettel so strongly with this incident. Its rather telling really, at best its a 50/50 incident (obviously my opinion is that its Sebs fault, but at the very least he isn't blameless like Horner is implying).
As far as I can see, Webber gave room while still defending his position, just as Hamilton and Button did later. Nothing wrong with that. What Red Bull are implying is that Webber should have thrown his car way out of the way, perhaps Webber could have made it a bit easier but at the end of the day he didn't exactly shunt Vettel off did he? He gave enough for Vettel to control the entry line into the corner - at that point its Vettel's responsibility to give the room as well as Mark, and from what I have seen it was Vettel which eventually caused the accident.

We can debate whether the factors leading to Sebs actions came from Marks initial aggression but in the end it was Vettel who caused the accident.

It doesn't help that we now have talk of team orders, favouritism of Vettel and some rather muddled PR coming from Red Bull.
 
Why is everyone raving Montreal's long straights? As far as I remember it has 1 significant straight not as long the one in Istanbul :doh:
 
Ardius
Horner's comments come across as taking sides to be honest, which may as well be hate. If he was really talking in the interests of the team, he wouldn't support Vettel so strongly with this incident. Its rather telling really, at best its a 50/50 incident (obviously my opinion is that its Sebs fault, but at the very least he isn't blameless like Horner is implying).
As far as I can see, Webber gave room while still defending his position, just as Hamilton and Button did later. Nothing wrong with that. What Red Bull are implying is that Webber should have thrown his car way out of the way, perhaps Webber could have made it a bit easier but at the end of the day he didn't exactly shunt Vettel off did he? He gave enough for Vettel to control the entry line into the corner - at that point its Vettel's responsibility to give the room as well as Mark, and from what I have seen it was Vettel which eventually caused the accident.

We can debate whether the factors leading to Sebs actions came from Marks initial aggression but in the end it was Vettel who caused the accident.

It doesn't help that we now have talk of team orders, favouritism of Vettel and some rather muddled PR coming from Red Bull.
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That team most certainly is biased in Vettel's favor. I cannot blame them considering how good this guy might become, but they should never show that in public...period.
 
It really does make me sick the way the have defended Vettel. I do get sticking up for your drivers but when asked the question 'Is it Vettel's fault' and he answers 'No, Mark ...should have given room..'


Mark's be fantastic the past two races and deserves the title lead. For me he didn't do anything wrong today at all. The way Horner mouthed 'MOVE' on the replay kinda tells you how he wanted it to go. I wonder what would have happened if the boot was on the other foot.


Anyone know what the hand gestures Vettel did when he got out the car mean?
 
It was a "braindead" or "loony" gesture.

l_sne27626-2


And considering his comments after the race, I think he is obviously referring to Webber.
 
Only_in_f1
Anyone know what the hand gestures Vettel did when he got out the car mean?
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Well, it's the universal symbol for "crazy". I guess he thinks Mark is nuts. I also enjoyed Mark's hand description of the crash while explaining it to Hamilton during the post race conference. These guys need to do better with public relations.
 
Ardius
It was a "braindead" or "loony" gesture.

l_sne27626-2


And considering his comments after the race, I think he is obviously referring to Webber.
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I read it as meaning what he (Vettel) just did was nuts. He took himself out of the race, cost his teammate a possible victory and cost the team itself points. Red Bull are strong at the moment and have the best car. We heard that other teams will be receiving upgrades as the season progresses and Red Bull may not be as dominant as they are now come Silverstone. "Strike whilst the iron is hot" as they say. Vettel throwing away relatively easy points for his team now is indeed folly as suggested by his gesture. Come the end of the season, the points lost here could have cost Red Bull or Vettel the Constructors and Drivers titles respectively.
 
I think its a pretty poor show for him to gesture this straight after the incident.
 
scope72
All I can say is...
:ouch:

But I still love you Red Bull:tup: But it will be Mclaren's race next week, unless RedBull pulls an (effective) F-Duct out of their...
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Well, for all I care, Mclaren can go ahead and win next week. Because Red Bull will be aiming for Montreal the week after that.
 
astrosdude91
Well, for all I care, Mclaren can go ahead and win next week. Because Red Bull will be aiming for Montreal the week after that.
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:lol: Alright, you've got me there...:dopey:
 
So what's the consensus? Webber or Vettel? Or is there no consensus?
Personally I put the blame on Vettel as he went into Webber, for no good reason as far as I can tell. I mean, Webber sat in the middle of he track and barely moved. Vettel decided to dive up the inside knowing it was tight. I just don't understand why Vettel hit Webber. I think he expected Webber to move over. But he didn't. Why should he?

PS Dunno if this has been added already but it was interesting to read - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson
 
Does the F-Duct really provide such a big advantage on the straights? Doesn't it only provide only like, a 6mph advantage on the straights?
 
PJ-FFL
Does the F-Duct really provide such a big advantage on the straights? Doesn't it only provide only like, a 6mph advantage on the straights?
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I'm sure that over the course of an entire race, the extra speed will count for a significant time reduction overall. It's not a boost, like KERS was. Just a sort of passive advantage. I think it will shine at Monza and Spa.
 
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