2011 Formula 1 Shell Belgian Grand Prix

[Feschka]

Its quite clear, Hami makes an adjustment to take the corner (look at when the camera follows after impact, if he kept going straight he would've been in the grass/barriers). Maldo is clearly going the wrong way into Eau Rouge.

I don't think so.

Besides, I like Hammie. 👍

 

[Anghammarad]

The commentators thought Maldonado was in the wrong and that should make the general public think what was Maldonado thinking, I doubt many will be thinking Hamilton not showing any class for being the 'victim' in this.

It really isn't surprising that a British commentator on a British TV channel does not put the blame on a British driver now is it?

The Swedish commentators (remember, we haven't had a decent F1 driver for 35 years now and are quite neutral in this as well) were wondering what Hamilton was doing.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

It really isn't surprising that a British commentator on a British TV channel does not put the blame on a British driver now is it?

The Swedish commentators (remember, we haven't had a decent F1 driver for 35 years now and are quite neutral in this as well) were wondering what Hamilton was doing.

What were they doing in Monaco then, they were bashing Lewis but changed their views after seeing more footage for their write ups? I do agree though there is more bias towards a driver in the home country like Paul Di Resta is always getting a mention and being talked up just for the sake of it at times.

Shows you the power of commentary though as your opinion on Hamilton was strong that he is was in the wrong big time, I made my opinion based on the footage. It will be interesting to see what the stewards do as they can have a different view to most usually , well many years back they did but they seem to be a bit more lenient now.

 

[F1 fan]

Waving fists is hardly mature. How slow do you want him to go, maybe slow enough to stall? Maldonado overtaked him on the cool down lap to be alongside him. It looks like Hamilton shown him the direction to turn but Maldonado still steered towards Lewis and Lewis was steering away from the edge of the track and they both converged and hit each other.

The commentators thought Maldonado was in the wrong and that should make the general public think what was Maldonado thinking, I doubt many will be thinking Hamilton not showing any class for being the 'victim' in this.

Waving his fists or waving his hand is still more mature than his "never back down' attitude. It was on an in lap. A bit different (although more dangerous) if it was during the race/ And no, I don't think he would have stalled if he slowed. You seem to be oblivous to the fact that he would still have been driving at around 100kph at that point. Slowing down to 80 would have been more than enough.

The fact is, at that point, Maldonado had instigated an incident of epic face palm proportions. What did Lewis have to gain by fighting with him? That is effectively what happened. Had he back off, he would have looked a lot more mature and he wouldn't have put his team in such a difficult position of having to fix the car in a short time period during qualifying, as they weren't finished when Q3 started.

He had nothing to gain and the whole thing was really silly. We all know Maldonado is very hot headed and perhaps some people know what happened at Monaco a good few years ago, but Hamilton is a world champion and therefore a good representative of the sport. This just sends out the wrong message.

What were they doing in Monaco then, they were bashing Lewis but changed their views after seeing more footage for their write ups? I do agree though there is more bias towards a driver in the home country like Paul Di Resta is always getting a mention and being talked up just for the sake of it at times.

One thing that really annoyed me about that was the post race forum. EJ was critical of Lewis and Jake Humphrey took the opportunity to apologize to the viewers if they were upset to hear Lewis being criticized.

 

[homeforsummer]

Yeah when your a racing driver in the top tier of motorsport and a world champion these things are very easy.

I suspect Lewis was a little surprised that one of those racing drivers in the top tier of motorsport actually swerved and made contact with his car.

It's not stunt driver school, he's no reason to brake in avoidance if he has no reason to suspect another driver will deliberately run into him, which is a fair enough assumption to make really.

 

[Anghammarad]

Shows you the power of commentary though (...)

It does indeed. But even after several views of the replays I am still of the opinion that Hamilton veered into Maldonado although Maldonado shouldn't go blameless either since he seems to squeeze Hamilton too much.

I have (repeatedly) stated my opinion that Hamilton is one of only two superstars in F1 today when it comes to racing but I very much dislike his attitude that he has a right of way and that everyone else should let him through.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Waving his fists or waving his hand is still more mature than his "never back down' attitude. It was on an in lap. A bit different (although more dangerous) if it was during the race/ And no, I don't think he would have stalled if he slowed. You seem to be oblivous to the fact that he would still have been driving at around 100kph at that point. Slowing down to 80 would have been more than enough.

The fact is, at that point, Maldonado had instigated an incident of epic face palm proportions. What did Lewis have to gain by fighting with him? That is effectively what happened. Had he back off, he would have looked a lot more mature and he wouldn't have put his team in such a difficult position of having to fix the car in a short time period during qualifying, as they weren't finished when Q3 started.

He had nothing to gain and the whole thing was really silly. We all know Maldonado is very hot headed and perhaps some people know what happened at Monaco a good few years ago, but Hamilton is a world champion and therefore a good representative of the sport. This just sends out the wrong message.

One thing that really annoyed me about that was the post race forum. EJ was critical of Lewis and Jake Humphrey took the opportunity to apologize to the viewers if they were upset to hear Lewis being criticized.

I don’t think waving fists is more mature, more like a talk afterwards is. His ‘never back down attitude’ is what makes him the racer he is. You could say that for a lot of incidents that the driver being put in a difficult position should yield to avoid contact. Lewis was driving slowly at the time and I don’t think it is reasonable to expect him to put the brakes on just in case a professional driver in the sport might turn into him and put him in the barriers on a cool down lap to go into the pits. I think it is a bit like the Mücke incident, Maldonado meant to maybe go alongside and wave fists but then contact was made and then you look like a bit of an idiot.

They do that all the time with EJ views .

It does indeed. But even after several views of the replays I am still of the opinion that Hamilton veered into Maldonado although Maldonado shouldn't go blameless either since he seems to squeeze Hamilton too much.

I have (repeatedly) stated my opinion that Hamilton is one of only two superstars in F1 today when it comes to racing but I very much dislike his attitude that he has a right of way and that everyone else should let him through.

Like I said before Maldonado was also turning towards Lewis and they both converged, otherwise there is no way Maldonado would have gone off on to the grass as he would have cleared Lewis if he kept on going at the same speed and stayed towards the right hand side of the track. Lewis has a reason to do this as the track is tightening towards him, what reason has Maldonado have but to maybe just make a point? I don't think he meant to make contact though, it would be stupid for any driver to do so in such a situation but you can see in the videos how quickly it happened. The first incident though looked like Maldonado was trying to turn in on Lewis a bit to maybe compromise him as he probably felt his lap was messed up further by him so doing a bit of the same to mess his lap up a bit.

 

[boiltheocean]

It really isn't surprising that a British commentator on a British TV channel does not put the blame on a British driver now is it?

I've got this hunch that they aren't blaming Hamilton because Hamilton didn't do anything wrong. Maldonado shut the door on Hamilton at the chicane and Maldonado deliberately crashed into the side of Hamilton after La Source.

[sarcasm]Hamilton moved to the right a few feet and didn't make contact, WHAT A DISGRACE!!![/sarcasm]

 

[homeforsummer]

Autosport: Pastor Maldonado penalised, Lewis Hamilton reprimanded over Spa qualifying clash

Pastor Maldonado has been given a five-place grid penalty for the Belgian Grand Prix after his incident with Lewis Hamilton at the end of Q2.

The pair had clashed once at the Bus Stop chicane as Hamilton hurried to complete a flying lap, and Maldonado then appeared to jink towards the McLaren on their following laps as they came out of La Source, with light contact made between them.

Maldonado was adjudged to have been at fault in the incident and will be moved back from 16th to 21st on the grid.

Hamilton was given a reprimand but receives no penalty.

Pretty much to be expected.

I'm failing to see your point here. Are you implying that it would be dangerous to slow suddenly? And if so, are you implying it would be more dangerous than making contact?

Two points: The first is that Hamilton had no reason to suspect that someone was going to try and run him off the circuit, so had no reason to brake.

The second is that if he tried to brake hard or avoid Maldonado, he could either have ended up hitting the barrier from swerving, or instead of hitting side-on, Maldonado could have been spun around the front of Hamilton's car and hit the barrier very hard indeed.

So yes, it could have been even more dangerous.

 

[F1 fan]

@Saidur

His "never back down" attitude is acceptable to a point during a Grand Prix, or even a qualifying lap. His stunning pass on Rosberg at Melbourne in 2010 was a great example of that. His contact with Maldonado at Monaco was a bad example. There is a sweet spot, and when he finds it, that's what makes him the racer that he is. However, I think he's getting worse as time goes on. He was near faultless in his rookie campaign.

Maybe he's just getting frustrated wishing he signed for Red Bull as he seems slightly erratic compared to 2007 and 2008. I still think he should have hit the brakes. You never know, maybe if he did, Maldonado would have slammed into the barrier without touching Hamilton and we'd have a great new internet meme on our hands.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

@Saidur

His "never back down" attitude is acceptable to a point during a Grand Prix, or even a qualifying lap. His stunning pass on Rosberg at Melbourne in 2010 was a great example of that. His contact with Maldonado at Monaco was a bad example. There is a sweet spot, and when he finds it, that's what makes him the racer that he is. However, I think he's getting worse as time goes on. He was near faultless in his rookie campaign.

Maybe he's just getting frustrated wishing he signed for Red Bull as he seems slightly erratic compared to 2007 and 2008. I still think he should have hit the brakes. You never know, maybe if he did, Maldonado would have slammed into the barrier without touching Hamilton and we'd have a great new internet meme on our hands.

He ended up gaining positions due to the Maldonado incident (A similar approach to the overtake on Schumacher) and crucial points for the WDC although I think it is unrealstic at this point to think he has a chance to win.

I don't think he is getting any worse, I'm confident if he gets a car within 2 tenths of the fastest car next year from the start he will look more calmer and if he gets a rocketship then him and Button will be made to look like kings of F1.

Anyway the decision is out I see and looks like Hamilton has got a reprimand for causing a collision and that is understandable as he turned the steering wheel away from the track a bit too sharply but Maldonado gets the bigger penalty for being the 'instigator' of the incident.

When asked by AUTOSPORT whether the second move had been deliberate retaliation, the Williams driver said: "No. It was a big moment.

"I tried to overtake him because he slowed down quite a lot. It's like a straight, but there's a turn and maybe at that moment he was turning and I was a bit straight. It's difficult to say.

"There was not any reason for both drivers to do anything after the chequered flag. It's clear that there was a mistake on both sides.

I still don't get why people are saying for Lewis to go slower than he already is when he is already going slow.

 

[Ardius]

Maybe he's just getting frustrated wishing he signed for Red Bull as he seems slightly erratic compared to 2007 and 2008. I still think he should have hit the brakes. You never know, maybe if he did, Maldonado would have slammed into the barrier without touching Hamilton and we'd have a great new internet meme on our hands.

What is so hard to understand about being on a flying lap and wanting to finish it? Maldonado was in the way, but Hamilton's lap was crucial and he wanted to finish it, he couldn't have waited while Pastor takes his time driving wide in the corners. Lewis was in the wrong for aggressively overtaking Pastor like he did, as Maldonado was also on a fast lap. But its not "getting frustrated"...he was on a crucial flying lap, what does this have to do with frustration? It certainly didn't justify Maldonado subsequently crashing into him.

I don't see this incident as an example of Hamilton's erratic behaviour this season or generally. This could have happened to any of the top teams/drivers, and frequently does. Its just how it is qualifying on the same track as slower cars, inevitably some are going to get in the way at the most crucial moment and the faster car is going to try and minimise the disadvantage - especially in the final corner on the last lap.

I echo (again) the sentiments that expecting Hamilton to brake to avoid Maldonado when both are on in-laps and Maldonado is the overtaking driver is a joke.

The stupid thing about all this is that if Maldonado had simply driven normally back to the pits and then complained to the stewards, he would be still 16th and Lewis would have got perhaps a harsher penalty. Now he starts 21st and has given Williams a bill and a repair job.

 

[F1 fan]

What is so hard to understand about being on a flying lap and wanting to finish it?

Nothing is hard to believe about it. Which is why I was talking about what happened on the in lap.

 

[Peter.]

Why are you singling ME out, though? Look, right above your post!



I'm not the only one who agrees!

But you're the one whose been flogging this horse the most. You even drew a diagram of your assumption of the incident, which really exaggerated Maldonado's movement, and that may mislead some people.

Anyway, the stewards did not deem it only Maldonado's fault, and so Lewis is reprimanded, and Maldonado gets his 5 spot penalty. Good decision in my opinion, story over.

Also, interesting thing to note, this is the worst ever qualifying position for Schumacher. His lowest before was 22nd at Moanco in 2006. Not the way he had hoped to celebrate year 20, now is it?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Also, interesting thing to note, this is the worst ever qualifying position for Schumacher. His lowest before was 22nd at Moanco in 2006. Not the way he had hoped to celebrate year 20, now is it?

It has a bigger chance of being a more memorable race for him as fresh tyres give a huge advantage this year and it could go down as one of his best drives this and last season tomorrow provided he stays out of trouble. He could get well into the top 10.

 

[C-ZETA]

Also, interesting thing to note, this is the worst ever qualifying position for Schumacher. His lowest before was 22nd at Moanco in 2006. Not the way he had hoped to celebrate year 20, now is it?

He does tend to do well from such low positions though. Spa '95 is a good example, and he's started out of the top 10 but finished in the points a number of times already at Merc.

 

[livemusic]

Good to see Bruno on the track again. 👍

 

[Ardius]

Nothing is hard to believe about it. Which is why I was talking about what happened on the in lap.

What happened on the in-lap that had anything to do with Hamilton's erratic behaviour? All I saw was Maldonado driving into another car. Unless Lewis is now such a "god-like" driver that he can control other driver's cars too and press the brake pedal for them?

Good to see Bruno on the track again. 👍

Not just on the track but doing a damn good job!

 

[Pupik]

Two drivers acting like total putzes, but barely a word of congratulations for Senna, who put in a number of impressive laps in Q1 and Q2 to place 7th, with no racing at all this season, and just about one year with a miserable car. Go Bruno!

I'm thinking Maldonado and Hamilton are the new Said and Biffle...

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Double standards for Maldonado .

 

[F1 fan]

What happened on the in-lap that had anything to do with Hamilton's erratic behaviour? All I saw was Maldonado driving into another car. Unless Lewis is now such a "god-like" driver that he can control other driver's cars too and press the brake pedal for them?

The subject has been talked about to the death in this thread so far. I'll just give you the short version. Lewis could have avoided Maldonado by slowing down. As a matter of fact, turning towards Maldonado was not necessary. Sure he wasn't as bad as Maldonado, but is it really worth making avoidable contact on an in lap? This was just hot headedness in my opinion. And no, I don't think anyone thinks Lewis can control another drivers car.

 

[Robin]

I suspect Lewis was a little surprised that one of those racing drivers in the top tier of motorsport actually swerved and made contact with his car.

It's not stunt driver school, he's no reason to brake in avoidance if he has no reason to suspect another driver will deliberately run into him, which is a fair enough assumption to make really.

There no 'no reason to suspect' when it comes to high speed racing!

When your in an F1 car there's always reason to expect the unexpected whether it be in qualy or the race. Their senses should always be in 'race mode' whenever they get into that car because there is always a risk of something bad happening. So if you see something coming towards you don't assume... just get out of there.

Lets say Maldonado's car had some sort of failure which led to the same incident, wouldn't it be just as unexpected? Why should Hamilton react differently whether its intentional or not if the outcome (an impact) is the same?

My point is that it wasn't in the least bit difficult for Hamilton to press the brake peddle (even lightly) on a straight piece of track to avoid the collision. You don't even need to be a top tier F1 driver to do that!

Robin.

 

[Ardius]

The subject has been talked about to the death in this thread so far. I'll just give you the short version. Lewis could have avoided Maldonado by slowing down. As a matter of fact, turning towards Maldonado was not necessary. Sure he wasn't as bad as Maldonado, but is it really worth making avoidable contact on an in lap? This was just hot headedness in my opinion. And no, I don't think anyone thinks Lewis can control another drivers car.

Mate, your in dream land, Hamilton didn't turn towards Maldonado and why is it that Hamilton the one causing avoidable contact? He was the slower car, going in a straight line on an in-lap with Maldonado also on an in-lap. Maldonado was the one who turned in and caused the avoidable contact.

And seeing as the stewards also agree and hence gave Maldonaldo the bigger punishment, I'd like to hear how on earth you came to your conclusions. Are you wearing sunglasses when you watch the replay?

There no 'no reason to suspect' when it comes to high speed racing!

When your in an F1 car there's always reason to expect the unexpected whether it be in qualy or the race. Their senses should always be in 'race mode' whenever they get into that car because there is always a risk of something bad happening. So if you see something coming towards you don't assume... just get out of there.

Lets say Maldonado's car had some sort of failure which led to the same incident, wouldn't it be just as unexpected? Why should Hamilton react differently whether its intentional or not if the outcome (an impact) is the same?

My point is that it wasn't in the least bit difficult for Hamilton to press the brake peddle (even lightly) on a straight piece of track to avoid the collision. You don't even need to be a top tier F1 driver to do that!

Robin.

Jesus christ. So Hamilton is a magician now too? If Maldonado had a mechanical failure, it still doesn't put Hamilton to blame - how the hell is he meant to see that coming?

You guys really need to take a step back and read what you've typed. You're criticising Hamilton for not being able to pull off feats of psychic ability.

"If Sato had pressed the brakes he would have avoided that accident, what an idiot, he deserves a penalty"

 

[Saidur_Ali]

There no 'no reason to suspect' when it comes to high speed racing!

When your in an F1 car there's always reason to expect the unexpected whether it be in qualy or the race. Their senses should always be in 'race mode' whenever they get into that car because there is always a risk of something bad happening. So if you see something coming towards you don't assume... just get out of there.

Lets say Maldonado's car had some sort of failure which led to the same incident, wouldn't it be just as unexpected? Why should Hamilton react differently whether its intentional or not if the outcome (an impact) is the same?

My point is that it wasn't in the least bit difficult for Hamilton to press the brake peddle (even lightly) on a straight piece of track to avoid the collision. You don't even need to be a top tier F1 driver to do that!

Robin.

They were not driving at high speed when it happened or racing for that matter.

It is not straight like Maldonado has said and you can see in the videos yourself. Normal situation would be for Maldonado to overtake Lewis like he was doing without moving over at all. Hamilton has said this is the first time this situation has happened to him, well since karting and I don't think Hamilton who was driving already slower than Maldonado should have to brake to avoid being in a difficult position with Maldonado with the barriers being so close. Most drivers give room in a race situation, this was on an in lap.

 

[F1 fan]

Mate, your in dream land, Hamilton didn't turn towards Maldonado and why is it that Hamilton the one causing avoidable contact? He was the slower car, going in a straight line on an in-lap with Maldonado also on an in-lap. Maldonaldo was the one who turned in and caused the avoidable contact.

And seeing as the stewards also agree and hence gave Maldonaldo the bigger punishment, I'd like to hear how on earth you came to your conclusions. Are you wearing sunglasses when you watch the replay?

They also found Hamilton guilty of causing an avoidable accident. Sure, the main cause of the accident was Maldonado. Nowhere in this thread have I said anything other to the contrary. Hamilton clearly turned right just before Maldonado and he made contact. Have you been out in the sun for too long?



It can be seen here. The point is, Maldonado was to blame, but Hamilton could have avoided it. He didn't. Hamilton received a reprimand and Pastor got a more severe penalty. Both are justified in my opinion. As a matter of fact, I think you're the only one disputing the fact that Hamilton turned towards Maldonado.

Interestingly, when I first type "Hamilton Maldonado" into youtube this morning, the recommendations were "Hamilton Maldonado Monaco". Now it says Spa.

EDIT:

Jesus christ. So Hamilton is a magician now too? If Maldonado had a mechanical failure, it still doesn't put Hamilton to blame - how the hell is he meant to see that coming?

You guys really need to take a step back and read what you've typed. You're criticising Hamilton for not being able to pull off feats of psychic ability.

Now you're just exaggerating the scenario even more. The fact is, had Hamilton hit the brakes, contact could have been avoided. Ardius, you are not the grand jury of F1.

 

[Ardius]

Watch the track not the cars. Hamilton's car turns with the curve of the track. Its called an optical ollusion. But if you watch the cars in relation to the track, especially the grid markings, perhaps you might notice Hamilton didn't turn towards Maldonado. Or rather, Maldonado made no attempt to turn with the curve of the track.

And I believe the stewards penalty for Hamilton relates to Hamilton impeding Maldonado's lap by overtaking him in the last corner.

But how can you expect him to know Maldonado is going to turn across his car? Seriously? Yes he can press a brake pedal. But can he predict the actions of another driver like that to drive so insane?

 

[F1 fan]

Watch the track not the cars. Hamilton's car turns with the curve of the track. Its called an optical ollusion. But if you watch the cars in relation to the track, especially the grid markings, perhaps you might notice Hamilton didn't turn towards Maldonado.

And I believe the stewards penalty for Hamilton relates to Hamilton impeding Maldonado's lap by overtaking him in the last corner.

But how can you expect him to know Maldonado is going to turn across his car? Seriously? Yes he can press a brake pedal. But can he predict the actions of another driver like that to drive so insane?

The footage on Youtube is not the best. Hamilton's turn to the right was much more severe than the curve of the track. And I think Hamilton's penalty was for the one after la source.

Maldonado said there was no contact at the bus stop chicane.

 

[Ardius]

Please watch the onboard of Hamilton:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14691403.stm

(3 minutes 20 in the video).

 

[Greycap]

What is so hard to understand about being on a flying lap and wanting to finish it?

Nothing. Being on a flying lap and wanting to finish it regardless of if it takes pushing someone out of the way, well, there's something hard to understand in that. That's what Hamilton did going into the chicane with the "I'm going here, you back off" attitude. Sometimes others just ruin one's flying lap and while it undeniably sucks, it's racing.

Mate, your in dream land [...]

I must be in that same dream land, I certainly see a sharp swerve towards Maldonado at 0:04 in this clip.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

They also found Hamilton guilty of causing an avoidable accident. Sure, the main cause of the accident was Maldonado. Nowhere in this thread have I said anything other to the contrary. Hamilton clearly turned right just before Maldonado and he made contact. Have you been out in the sun for too long?



It can be seen here. The point is, Maldonado was to blame, but Hamilton could have avoided it. He didn't. Hamilton received a reprimand and Pastor got a more severe penalty. Both are justified in my opinion. As a matter of fact, I think you're the only one disputing the fact that Hamilton turned towards Maldonado.

Interestingly, when I first type "Hamilton Maldonado" into youtube this morning, the recommendations were "Hamilton Maldonado Monaco". Now it says Spa.

EDIT:


Now you're just exaggerating the scenario even more. The fact is, had Hamilton hit the brakes, contact could have been avoided. Ardius, you are not the grand jury of F1.

Hamilton showed the way twice but Maldonado didn't get the message and contact was made hence the reprimand and the 5 place grid penalty. It is a bit like handbags between the two.

Like I said using the brakes could have stopped many incidents over the years and similarly using throttle in a braking zone like Alonso and Button could have avoided collisions last year here even if they are not the ones in the wrong. It is not a reasonable thing in my opinion to put the blame on someone for not doing so or a reason to question someones maturity or class about over such a thing.