2012 Deutsche Tourenwagen Meisters (DTM)

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The engine is BMW's. It's called the BMW P66 and developed completely by BMW Motorsport with of course, the given spec by DTM.

 
tribolik
Im sorry I got the mercedez weight wrong, its 1100 kg

Great race nonetheless and Im sure the BMW engine is developed by BMW because in the last race Spengler lost the hood and had to retire to the pits and the pit crew covered the engine bay so that no one could see it or take pictures
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Probably because the BMW badge had been knocked of to reveal the word Judd. :sly:. Or Audi. :scared: Or Mercedes :yuck:

Still it was a good race but I can see why the cost capped car cost too much and why the racing isn't as good as it could be.

There are two Venturi tunnels running inside the bodywork on the left and right. They take air from the front of the car and feed it to the Diffuser at the back.

I'm willing to bet that this is where the cost overrun came from and the downforce it generates is why V8 engines and rear wheel drive are not producing the kind of action they should.
 
Tired Tyres
Probably because the BMW badge had been knocked of to reveal the word Judd. :sly:. Or Audi. :scared: Or Mercedes :yuck:

Still it was a good race but I can see why the cost capped car cost too much and why the racing isn't as good as it could be.

There are two Venturi tunnels running inside the bodywork on the left and right. They take air from the front of the car and feed it to the Diffuser at the back.

I'm willing to bet that this is where the cost overrun came from and the downforce it generates is why V8 engines and rear wheel drive are not producing the kind of action they should.
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Ardius
Isn't BMW's engine a Judd? Edit: Tyres beat me to it :p.
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not according to this...

InvincibleM5
The engine is BMW's. It's called the BMW P66 and developed completely by BMW Motorsport with of course, the given spec by DTM.

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It wasn't the most exciting race in terms of overtakes throughout the field, that I agree with.

Can we try and get this whole spec series thing out in the open... who actually has reliable sources for the Judd & Dalara input, I'm not denying it, but it strikes me that people oversimplify these things and I'd like to know some specifics.

edit: and if people come out with rumours they heard about on 10/10ths I'll laugh at them.
 
tribolik
not according to this...
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If that's correct then why did they cover it up in the last race?

MatskiMonk
It wasn't the most exciting race in terms of overtakes throughout the field, that I agree with.

Can we try and get this whole spec series thing out in the open... who actually has reliable sources for the Judd & Dalara input, I'm not denying it, but it strikes me that people oversimplify these things and I'd like to know some specifics.

edit: and if people come out with rumours they heard about on 10/10ths I'll laugh at them.
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Not again :ouch:

DTM put out a tender for the new cost capped chassis. Dalara won the contract to make it.
 
I will freely admit I know very little about the specifics of current DTM. But I do know the series has been a silhouette series for a long, long time (even back to the so-called "Golden Years" in the 90s), that the cars have almost nothing to do with the roadcars and that a lot of parts are shared across all of the cars. I only assume BMW's engine was Judd because BMW have a long relationship with them as engine suppliers.
I have no idea if DTM is a literal spec-series but I wouldn't be surprised if its very close to being one as there seems to be very little room for technical differences. Sadly most motorsport series are heading in this direction of spec-parts because it is far cheaper. Hence I find it a little hollow when a manufacturer enters a series like this and wins - its no different to a sponsor entering the series and winning...my excitement over manufacturers these days has waned quite a bit (especially with the whole Lotus saga) as it becomes more and more just a literal marketing exercise and very little technical input.
 
Accordint to dtm.com The BMW P66 engine, for example, is a completely new design. As far as possible, the experts were given free rein with the design and geometry of the chassis. The aerodynamics of the BMW M3 DTM were also the subject of meticulous fine-tuning in the areas specified in the regulations
 
I think any single on of us who followed the first race know that the chassis underneath all of these cars and some parts are the same due to the cost cutting measure by DTM but the engines are manufacturer's own. The BMW's engine, as stated were completely designed by BMW.

No matter how hollow this is but the effort that BMW puts into this project and all is very much appreciated and as a BMW fan, I appreciate it.
 
Ardius
I will freely admit I know very little about the specifics of current DTM. But I do know the series has been a silhouette series for a long, long time (even back to the so-called "Golden Years" in the 90s), that the cars have almost nothing to do with the roadcars and that a lot of parts are shared across all of the cars. I only assume BMW's engine was Judd because BMW have a long relationship with them as engine suppliers.
I have no idea if DTM is a literal spec-series but I wouldn't be surprised if its very close to being one as there seems to be very little room for technical differences. Sadly most motorsport series are heading in this direction of spec-parts because it is far cheaper. Hence I find it a little hollow when a manufacturer enters a series like this and wins - its no different to a sponsor entering the series and winning...my excitement over manufacturers these days has waned quite a bit (especially with the whole Lotus saga) as it becomes more and more just a literal marketing exercise and very little technical input.
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Yep. It is pure marketing. I don't mind as long as the racing is good. In DTM's case it could be better.

tribolik
Accordint to dtm.com The BMW P66 engine, for example, is a completely new design. As far as possible, the experts were given free rein with the design and geometry of the chassis. The aerodynamics of the BMW M3 DTM were also the subject of meticulous fine-tuning in the areas specified in the regulations
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Again. DTM = Smoke and Mirrors. Don't believe the hype.

Sam Collins of Race Car Engineering talks about it in series 7 episode 9 of Midweek Motorsport from 1 hour in.

Here.

http://audio.rpix.org.uk/mwm/7/mwm7-09.mp3

Also available on Itunes.

Since this is broadcast Radio, it is governed by regulation regarding what it can say unlike a website which can say anything it likes.
 
Who would have though at a team could do their own seat fitting. The scandal of it all! :sly:

I think you'll find that they can strip down the car and rebuild/repair it as well. It still doesn't mean anyone other than Dalara built it.
 
Owkey, let's just put this aside shall we? Dallara won in Hockenheim. Dallara won the race in Lausitzring and will be 100% sure Dallara will win the remaining 9 races to come...

One thing for sure, DTM is going the right way here. With same chassis and less aero on the car, this will mean one thing - much closer and equal race than before.
 
InvincibleM5
I think any single on of us who followed the first race know that the chassis underneath all of these cars and some parts are the same due to the cost cutting measure by DTM but the engines are manufacturer's own. The BMW's engine, as stated were completely designed by BMW.

No matter how hollow this is but the effort that BMW puts into this project and all is very much appreciated and as a BMW fan, I appreciate it.
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Yup me also, though I don't see it as hollow, within the scope of the championship regulations that all of the cars on the grid have to adhere to, it was a BMW that won, just as it was a Mercedes that won last week. Show me a team that funds, designs, develops, engineers, fabricates, assembles, tests, supports and races its own cars from the ground up, and I'll show you a garage full of liars.
 
That will be the DTM organisers not wanting to blow the "BMW victorious on return to DTM" type headline.

If you notice on the footage, the TV company goes back and forward a frame at a time quite a few times on the replay of the start to show it happening.

This is very different to previous seasons when they jumped on things like that with drive throughs.

Green also made contact with the rear of a car he passed as well. They wouldn't normally let that go either.

Perhaps they are lightening up a little bit?
 
Tired Tyres
That will be the DTM organisers not wanting to blow the "BMW victorious on return to DTM" type headline.

If you notice on the footage, the TV company goes back and forward a frame at a time quite a few times on the replay of the start to show it happening.

This is very different to previous seasons when they jumped on things like that with drive throughs.

Green also made contact with the rear of a car he passed as well. They wouldn't normally let that go either.

Perhaps they are lightening up a little bit?
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Well after the unpenalized demolition derby cause by Ralf Schum in the last race that took out 2 BMWs (one was Spenglers) that move opens a precedent
 
Good race, but I admit not many overtaking and it was boring a little, except towards the end where Bruno Spengler had a big problem and losing a lot of pace. Overall, Paffet was uncatchable and Bruno did a great job to defend his 2nd place. Martin Tomczyk also did well to charge through the field and be in touch with the 3rd place Audi before the end of the race, just a little to short to make any move. Both of those 2 BMWs performed well, I'm happy :D
 
Dont they use the full Brands Hatch track anymore ? It would have fit DTM a lot better I think. But overall it was a good race, great driving by the front drivers.
 
For the first time ever I have been following the DTM series this year due to the return of BMW like others on here!

I really like the series but I dont like this forced two pit stops rule. From the ESPN commentators I understand refuelling has been banned this year? Is this correct?

Anyway, BMW has had a good return but I hope Audi will be able to be stronger. Paffett seems to be walking away with it at the moment
 
Dustone
Paffett seems to be walking away with it at the moment
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That's fine by me :)

This is my first full season that I am following also. I would like to see more passing overall but I'm enjoying the season thus far.
 
I'm glad that Mercedes Benz does a good job there recent misfortunes. Hope it will be exciting at the next race :D
 

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