2012 European Grand Prix

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Bram Turismo
Alonso's outperforming any other driver so far by miles. I cannot believe how he continues to get so much out of this Ferrari.
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Don't get me wrong, his driving has been excellent. But if others didn't make so many mistakes or have so much bad luck it probably wouldn't look as great.
 
Bram Turismo
Alonso's outperforming any other driver so far by miles. I cannot believe how he continues to get so much out of this Ferrari.

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Hey hey at least his pitcrew isnt working against him!:P
 
Shaggy Alonso
Mate, are you actually suggesting Hamilton had a hope of keeping Maldonado behind.
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Yes, he did have a hope.

How come Hamilton (in a car 5 seconds slower per lap) managed to hold off Maldonado until the point that Maldonado took him out ?, yes, he had less traction, but so what?... it was 1 more lap to the end, chance worth taking in my opinion....mate.
 
saidur_ali
From the brief onboard of Maldonado, I think I heard him floor the car and start countersteering and then hit Hamilton so he might have hit the wall but would need an onboard of Maldonado with his throttle inputs to see if he actually did floor it. No matter how much space Hamilton left, Maldonado was going to t-bone, I think that much is clear the way he came on track.
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Yeah fair enough point about throttle input. I was focusing on the images for my look at the incident and not the sound. I think if Ginsters keeps up all these incidents with other cars he will lose his seat or license for next year.
 
Turns in on him? Maldonado drives in to the side of him from off-track. It's Maldonado's duty to pull out as he not only was off the track but didn't have track or race position. Lewis is under no obligation to give him any space.
 
SuperDiscoDaz
Yeah fair enough point about throttle input. I was focusing on the images for my look at the incident and not the sound. I think if Ginsters keeps up all these incidents with other cars he will lose his seat or license for next year.
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No he wont. Because "money"...
 
dhandes
So then, Maldonado could have used the run off, but what could have Hamilton have actually done, during the incident?
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I think Homeforsummer has already explained that well. I doubt I could do a better job than him.

dhandes
It's nothing personal, no matter how it comes across.
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Fair enough.
 
homeforsummer
Personally I care for neither Hamilton nor Maldonado (in fact, I find it a great pity that Maldonado is clearly talented, as in every other respect he's a waste of space), so I'm effectively neutral here. However, I'm not too blind to see that Hamilton lost far more points than he needed to at Valencia.
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This.

Maldonado is to blame for the collision.

Hamilton is not to blame for the collision. He's only to blame for not driving smarter around someone who has deliberately driven into other drivers on two separate occasions and losing 12 points he could have had defending 15 points he was probably never going to retain. Anyone watching would have seen contact coming from the end of the previous lap because it was Hamilton and Maldonado.

Watching Maldonado defending his actions is sickening.
 
At 1ness
Yes, he did have a hope.

How come Hamilton (in a car 5 seconds slower per lap) managed to hold off Maldonado until the point that Maldonado took him out ?, yes, he had less traction, but so what?... it was 1 more lap to the end, chance worth taking in my opinion....mate.
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That is the thing, he wasn't 5 seconds a lap slower, a few tenths only. Hamilton had the car to defend even with Maldonado with DRS. I watched it back and it is quite clear to see Hamilton had the braking performance to keep Maldonado behind and the traction in parts that matter. He got a bit ragged as he had to due to just losing a position to Kimi a few moments earlier and didn't want Maldonado to be in the position for an easy pass. If Hamilton had such poor traction Maldonado would have easily gone passed him on the DRS zone and no incident would have happened but Hamilton happened to still have good traction.
 
Incidentally, I never thought I'd say this after a Valencia race...

That was an excellent race with lots of passing.
 
All in all, it was another good race, in a very eventful season. Lots of talking points, hopefully Silverstone will offer up more of the same.
 
It was a fantastic race!

I love these sort of races..the ones that look boring before hand but are turn out to be great!:)
 
My view of the incident is changed slightly. I've just seen footage of the last few laps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i6iZs3cC-g) if anybody is interested) and Hamilton did not block Maldonado on the straight as I thought, it was Raikkonen on the previous lap whom he blocked.

I still believe that perhaps Hamilton should've gave room on that second apex, I want to know what he was thinking. Was he expecting Maldonado to go straight on, or lift heavily and pull in behind him? It's Maldonado not Button/Alonso, he's not going to yield so easily. It's funny when two aggressive drivers hit eachother in this fashion because either one could've given the other room, but neither was willing.
 
Seismica
Was he expecting Maldonado to go straight on, or lift heavily and pull in behind him?
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I think so... That he was thinking that and that Pastor should have done it. Hamilton goes slightly right to regain the trajectory to the second apex, Maldonado sees that room and tries to rejoin, only to see it disappear again and can't avoid the crash while skating over the kerb.
 
Famine
Incidentally, I never thought I'd say this after a Valencia race...

That was an excellent race with lots of passing.
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Yeah I only saw half of the race and it looked good. I'm starting to wonder if Kovalainen is cursed at this track or just before turn 12 because of Webber trying to live out Red Bulls motto and today with Vergne hitting him
 
saidur_ali
That is the thing, he wasn't 5 seconds a lap slower, a few tenths only. Hamilton had the car to defend even with Maldonado with DRS. I watched it back and it is quite clear to see Hamilton had the braking performance to keep Maldonado behind and the traction in parts that matter. He got a bit ragged as he had to due to just losing a position to Kimi a few moments earlier and didn't want Maldonado to be in the position for an easy pass. If Hamilton had such poor traction Maldonado would have easily gone passed him on the DRS zone and no incident would have happened but Hamilton happened to still have good traction.
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I agree, the way people are going on, are as if Hamilton had Teflon coated tyres.
Alright, they weren't at there optimum, but come-on people...1 lap to go.
 
Seismica
My view of the incident is changed slightly. I've just seen footage of the last few laps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i6iZs3cC-g) if anybody is interested) and Hamilton did not block Maldonado on the straight as I thought, it was Raikkonen on the previous lap whom he blocked.

I still believe that perhaps Hamilton should've gave room on that second apex, I want to know what he was thinking. Was he expecting Maldonado to go straight on, or lift heavily and pull in behind him? It's Maldonado not Button/Alonso, he's not going to yield so easily. It's funny when two aggressive drivers hit eachother in this fashion because either one could've given the other room, but neither was willing.
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Again, it comes down to trust. But there's no way you can blame Lewis for keeping his line through that part of the corner, because he rightfully expected Maldonado to come back on track safely. Some will say that Hamilton should've expected him to come back on at that area judging by the motion of Maldonado's car, but do you think Lewis is focusing on the track ahead or watching Maldonado at his side?
 
"Ian Parkes ‏@ianparkesf1
J-E Vergne hit with a 10-place grid penalty for #BritishGP + 25,000 euro fine for causing collision with Heikki Kovalainen in #EuropeanGP"
 
hornet_burnout
"Ian Parkes ‏@ianparkesf1
J-E Vergne hit with a 10-place grid penalty for #BritishGP + 25,000 euro fine for causing collision with Heikki Kovalainen in #EuropeanGP"
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He deserves it in my eyes. There was no reason to move across that early, when he was nearly past anyway.
 
Famine
Incidentally, I never thought I'd say this after a Valencia race...

That was an excellent race with lots of passing.
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Yeah, i was expecting it to be pretty boring prior, but actually really enjoyed it.

Was really impressed with Alonso's win, despite me being a Hamilton fanboy.:lol:
 
Seismica
My view of the incident is changed slightly. I've just seen footage of the last few laps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i6iZs3cC-g) if anybody is interested) and Hamilton did not block Maldonado on the straight, it was Raikkonen whom he blocked.

I still believe that perhaps Hamilton should've gave room on that second apex, I want to know what he was thinking. Was he expecting Maldonado to go straight on, or lift heavily and pull in behind him? It's Maldonado not Button, he's not going to yield so easily. It's funny when two aggressive drivers hit eachother in this fashion because either one could've given the other room, but neither was willing.
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Hamilton would have had to slow down considerably to avoid I reckon. Maldonado continued accelerating like there was no car there but having looked at it again I think he would have made the corner if no car was there.
 
hornet_burnout
"Ian Parkes ‏@ianparkesf1
J-E Vergne hit with a 10-place grid penalty for #BritishGP + 25,000 euro fine for causing collision with Heikki Kovalainen in #EuropeanGP"
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The hell are they gonna do for the MalHam incident then?!
 
I cant believe we are still talking about it 3 hours after the race finished!!:lol:
 
saidur_ali
Hamilton would have had to slow down considerably to avoid I reckon. Maldonado continued accelerating like there was no car there but having looked at it again I think he would have made the corner if no car was there.
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Hamilton could have avoided the incident. But if the Grosjean overtake is anything to go by, he would've lost the position, which he wasn't willing to do. Once Maldonado was on the kerb he couldn't do anything. The key point is there wasn't enough room to get back on the track before the start of the kerb because Hamilton parked his car on the white line when they were side by side.

As has been stated many times (A statement which I agree with by the way) Maldonado could have and should have backed out of it. But this is Maldonado we're talking about, Hamilton shouldn't have expected Maldonado to react considerately, it cost him his points. A penalty for Maldonado, which is likely, won't get Hamilton's points back.
 
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mattythedog
He deserves it in my eyes. There was no reason to move across that early, when he was nearly past anyway.
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Idiotic move...

DaxCobra
The hell are they gonna do for the MalHam incident then?!
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One awaits anxiously :)

Alex p.
And people still refusing to look at the SLOW-MO footage and put off their bias towards Lewis Hamilton...
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Yes, and one wonders how opinions would vary if it had been with Vettel...
 
Alex p.
And people still refusing to look at the SLOW-MO footage and put off their bias towards Lewis Hamilton...
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Says the guy who, even if Vettel does really crappy, still says "Vettel man of the day".
 
Seismica
Hamilton could have avoided the incident. But if the Grosjean overtake is anything to go by, he would've lost the position, which he wasn't willing to do. Once Maldonado was on the kerb he couldn't do anything. The key point is there wasn't enough room to get back on the track before the start of the kerb because Hamilton parked his car on the white line when they were side by side.

As has been stated many times (A statement which I agree with by the way) Maldonado could have and should have backed out of it. But this is Maldonado we're talking about, Hamilton shouldn't have expected Maldonado to react considerately.
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No reason to go harder on the power than Lewis in that situation though so he could have done something about it. Lewis was not going to suddenly vanish.
 

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