2012 European Grand Prix

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saidur_ali
That is why his tyres might have went after being good enough to pull away from Kimi and be comfortable less than a few seconds earlier.
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That's the second time you've said that, so I know it wasn't a typo. Are you unaware of the fact that Kimi was already ahead of Hamilton by the time the Hamilton/Maldonado incident happened? How can Hamilton be pulling away from someone who is in front of him?
 
I agree with what Karun Chandhok said. Pator was off the track and should have just turned left to the run off, this could have possibly given him a much better run after the next corner and an easy overtake. Instead he went straight, ran onto the kerb by which point the car could no longer turn and went straight into Lewis. He will probably get a penalty for causing an avoidable collision and 5 place grid penalty?
 
saidur_ali
It will interesting to see if further analaysis of tyre is done, if it was due to temperature, not wear. He was going along well until the big lockup in the final corner and then he made a mistake after that due to probably overheating from that and getting out of the operating window. That is why his tyres might have went after being good enough to pull away from Kimi and be comfortable less than a few seconds earlier. If it was the cliff then he would have been in trouble to defend but looked thermal to me, a quick period of overheating the tyre and then trying to defend with that.
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The cliff isn't only related to wear, but is just as much thermal deg. His tyres were gone completely, and they don't come back like Bridgestones might have done. Did you see him squirming all over the shop over the bridge? Literally no grip.

I think a lot of people here are not appreciating how finished Hamilton's tyres were.
 
Aderrrm
Oh yeah absolutely.

What I'm saying is, he could have hung on for another lap if he was against a clean, rational driver and possibly took a podium. Every driver should be able to race without knowing that the driver behind is going to him them off the track, in this case Maldonado. Maldonado should be penalised heavily imo and punished for his driving and he might not be penalised if Hamilton had simply let him go. What Maldonado says in his interviews like Mike pointed out earlier doesn't help either. :irked:

Right I'm off for a beer...
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👍

If it was inevitable that Maldonado was going to overtake, why couldn't he have just slotted back in behind Hamilton and tried again later? As Aderrrm has said, it's no excuse to blame Lewis just because Maldonado has absolutely no patience/common sense. Drivers are all different. Maybe someone in the same position as Lewis with much lower points, would've given up the position without a fight, but would Vettel or Alonso have done the same? Alonso tried fighting back against Lewis in Canada, what if the same kind of thing happened there?

Common sense or not, it's instinct for a championship contender to defend their position, no matter the state of their tyres. Every point counts.
 
Surely Maldonado must have seen Lewis was on his last legs. He caught him quickly in the laps before. Is it beyond the realms of thinking, 'That move didn't come off, I've run wide, lets tuck back in behind him using that massive piece of run-off area and get him next time'.

Hamilton didn't make any double moves, he kept the racing line. Ginsters went from totally off the track, into the side of another car.
 
A great race. Didn't expect Alonso to win at all, great drive from him. Also great from Schumi and Webber, making use of fresher tires. Shame about Lewis, but there's still a long way to go...
 
Biffy
Common sense or not, it's instinct for a championship contender to defend their position, no matter the state of their tyres. Every point counts.
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Of course every point counts. But an element of preservation should come into things. He might not have wanted to lose three points, but it's a far better alternative to losing 15.
 
homeforsummer
^ This.
The incident was Maldonado's fault. Not scoring any points was Hamilton's fault.
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How can it be his fault ?!?!.... you've said the incident was Maldonado's fault, so therefore, Hamilton not scoring any points is ultimately... Maldonado's fault.
 
Shaggy Alonso
The cliff isn't only related to wear, but is just as much thermal deg. His tyres were gone completely, and they don't come back like Bridgestones might have done. Did you see him squirming all over the shop over the bridge? Literally no grip.

I think a lot of people here are not appreciating how finished Hamilton's tyres were.
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Well, that's normal.
When one makes stupid mistake once, the other time he involve in someone mistake, all blame will be put on him.

It's normal and that's how the most of the reality were. :yuck:
 
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Wow i am in favor of the williams driver. Hamilton deserved what he got and thats that. He had no tires and once again tried to push him out of the track which he did and btw Maldo. was ahead of him by a nose so he knew that it was going to be tight corner, both drivers knew and yet Hamilton tried to be the smart driver and push me him out. I am glad Maldo. didnt let him get away this time. Into the wall and that was racing btw. He knew he didnt have tires so he could have easily let him pas and still got some points but he chose not to.
 
DaxCobra
http://planetf1.com/driver/3213/7839378/Pastor-Lewis-tried-an-aggressive-move

Oh dear me.
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Well, he would say that, wouldn't he? Perhaps once he's had time to review the incident, he may be less combative. Lewis cannot be happy at what happened, and as has been said already, he may have been well advised to give Pastor a wide berth, but it's not in his nature to give up a position so lightly. Let's not forget too that the corner itself is slightly tricky, and it's perhaps not surprising that this was the scene of such an incident. I think Maldonado will get a big penalty though, and Lewis will be licking his wounds somewhat this evening.
 
F1 fan
That's the second time you've said that, so I know it wasn't a typo. Are you unaware of the fact that Kimi was already ahead of Hamilton by the time the Hamilton/Maldonado incident happened? How can Hamilton be pulling away from someone who is in front of him?
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I know, Hamilton making a mistake after overheating the tyres, getting passed by Kimi and then Maldonado getting into DRS window to close up on Lewis and being in a position to attack Lewis.

It all happened quite quickly, being comfortable in second, then a big lockup from Lewis and then being on the backfoot from then on with Kimi. He then made a mistake that might have been caused through the lockup just a few moments earlier which made him push harder to try and keep Kimi at bay making him overheat the tyres further and once passed was in clutches of Maldonado unless he could hold on for a few more corners and regain composure and get the tyres back in the window. He would have been OK I reckon if Maldonado slowly went back on track as then Lewis would have been at least a second (No DRS) or more ahead then with a lap and a bit remaining.

Initial feeling is overheating, but will be interesting to find out if it was wear which I doubt at the moment. Will look back at it later, a lot of things happened might have missed something.

Shaggy Alonso
The cliff isn't only related to wear, but is just as much thermal deg. His tyres were gone completely, and they don't come back like Bridgestones might have done. Did you see him squirming all over the shop over the bridge? Literally no grip.

I think a lot of people here are not appreciating how finished Hamilton's tyres were.
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Do you not agree that if Maldonado slotted in behind Lewis, he would have lost some time, enough for Lewis to hold on with Maldonado being out of the DRS zone for the last lap and Hamilton being able to regain some composure?
 
At 1ness
How can it be his fault ?!?!.... you've said the incident was Maldonado's fault, so therefore, Hamilton not scoring any points is ultimately... Maldonado's fault.
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No. As has been said many times now, Hamilton could have been less aggressive as his tires were absolutely done. Had he been less aggressive, he would have finished fourth.
 
dhandes
Deary me indeed. If using the racing line is aggressive, we might as well quit watching. Any respect I have for Ginsters is quickly diminishing.
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I didn't have much respect for him to begin with after Spa last year, now after his move on Monaco and now today, the lack of respect is turning into a hate.
 
F1 fan
No. As has been said many times now, Hamilton could have been less aggressive as his tires were absolutely done. Had he been less aggressive, he would have finished fourth.
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Could you define aggressive please.
 
F1 fan
No. As has been said many times now, Hamilton could have been less aggressive as his tires were absolutely done. Had he been less aggressive, he would have finished fourth.
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No, they weren't absolutely done, he was managing to stay on the track, Maldonado took him out, thus killing Hamiltons hopes of scoring any points... simple.

People can 'if only this, if only that' all they like... still doesn't change the fact, Hamilton not scoring points was ultimately down to Maldonado.
 
F1 fan
Of course every point counts. But an element of preservation should come into things. He might not have wanted to lose three points, but it's a far better alternative to losing 15.
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True, but I wouldn't think that any driver anticipates the possibility of crashing out as long as they are driving safely and within the rules. As mentioned above, no driver should have to back down because they expect the other driver to crash them out if they dare to fight back, it seems Hamilton gave him the benefit of the doubt and paid the ultimate price for it.

I guess the one constant in all this is Maldonado's incompetence.
 
saidur_ali
I know, Hamilton making a mistake after overheating the tyres, getting passed by Kimi and then Maldonado getting into DRS window to close up on Lewis and being in a position to attack Lewis.

It all happened quite quickly, being comfortable in second, then a big lockup from Lewis and then being on the backfoot from then on with Kimi. He then made a mistake that might have been caused through the lockup just a few moments earlier which made him push harder to try and keep Kimi at bay making him overheat the tyres further and once passed was in clutches of Maldonado unless he could hold on for a few more corners and regain composure and get the tyres back in the window. He would have been OK I reckon if Maldonado slowly went back on track as then Lewis would have been at least a second (No DRS) or more ahead then with a lap and a bit remaining.

Initial feeling is overheating, but will be interesting to find out if it was wear which I doubt at the moment. Will look back at it later, a lot of things happened might have missed something.



Do you not agree that if Maldonado slotted in behind Lewis, he would have lost some time, enough for Lewis to hold on with Maldonado being out of the DRS zone for the last lap and Hamilton being able to regain some composure.
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Ali, you're talking about this overheating as if it's a temporary issue, and about all these Hamilton 'mistakes', as if they were unrelated. He wasn't making mistakes - he was hacksawing at the wheel fighting a gripless car. He's said himself it felt like he was driving on flat tyres.
 
DaxCobra
http://planetf1.com/driver/3213/7839378/Pastor-Lewis-tried-an-aggressive-move

Oh dear me.
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It was very similar to the move he pulled on Grojean (and ended his race) in australia but didnt seem as agressive (there was no contact).

I cant understand why there are people defending Maldonado... Lewis did what he had to do and Maldonado didnt have enough pacience... what did everyone expect Lewis to do? Right I have no tyre grip so I will just park the car and let everyone pass on the last lap of the race

FranciscoJR
Wow i am in favor of the williams driver. Hamilton deserved what he got and thats that. He had no tires and once again tried to push him out of the track which he did and btw Maldo. was ahead of him by a nose so he knew that it was going to be tight corner, both drivers knew and yet Hamilton tried to be the smart driver and push me him out. I am glad Maldo. didnt let him get away this time. Into the wall and that was racing btw. He knew he didnt have tires so he could have easily let him pas and still got some points but he chose not to.
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If you can please share your PSN so that I can avoid racing you online I would apreciate it because you seem to know nothing about racing rules
 
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Schumacher looks in the clear. His DRS closed 30m before the yellow flag zone. So that's fine and he holds on to his 3rd place!
 
At 1ness
How can it be his fault ?!?!.... you've said the incident was Maldonado's fault, so therefore, Hamilton not scoring any points is ultimately... Maldonado's fault.
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*Sigh*

a) It was a turn of phrase
b) The points were Hamilton's to lose. He has a known nutter behind him but still felt it necessary to battle him wheel to wheel with two laps to go. Taking Hamilton out was Maldonado's fault, but a well-rounded racing driver will understand that "some" points are better than "no" points. Hamilton didn't really demonstrate that common sense.

Alonso lost places hand over fist in the last few laps of Canada, but he didn't over-defend and end up with nothing.
 
tribolik
It was very similar to the move he pulled on Grojean (and ended his race) in australia but didnt seem as agressive (there was no contact).

I cant understand why there are people defending Maldonado... Lewis did what he had to do and Maldonado didnt have enough pacience... what did everyone expect Lewis to do? Right I have no tyre grip so I will just park the car and let everyone pass on the last lap of the race
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It would appear so. It is always Hamiltons fault.
 
Shaggy Alonso
Ali, you're talking about this overheating as if it's a temporary issue, and about all these Hamilton 'mistakes', as if they were unrelated. He wasn't making mistakes - he was hacksawing at the wheel fighting a gripless car. He's said himself it felt like he was driving on flat tyres.
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He was pulling away from Kimi only a few moments earlier, until a big lockup and subsequent mistake. Hamilton was not taking it easy after and further compounded his problem by then putting more energy into tyre trying to stay ahead of Kimi for a few corners and then Maldonado got in DRS zone as well. If Maldonado slotted in behind Hamilton where they crashed, Hamilton would have had breathing space and the chance to start putting less energy into the tyre due to not having the need to push as hard to stay ahead. The overheating would not be enough to stop Lewis for a lap and bit to achieve the podium if he got out of the DRS zone from Maldonado.
 
dhandes
Could you define aggressive please.
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Perhaps aggressive was the wrong word to use, however, defending a position he was inevitably going to lose was not smart. It goes back to what I say about choosing your battles.

At 1ness
No, they weren't absolutely done, he was managing to stay on the track, Maldonado took him out, thus killing Hamiltons hopes of scoring any points... simple.

People can 'if only this, if only that' all they like... still doesn't change the fact, Hamilton not scoring points was ultimately down to Maldonado.
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It showed a complete lack of sense. Consistency is key. Had he been more sensible, he would have come away with a decent haul of points today, which would have been especially handy as one of his fellow title competitors had DNF'd. His tires were done. Just because he was able to stay on track does not probe otherwise. You only had to watch his car exiting the corners to see that.
 

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