2012 Formula 1 Monaco Grand Prix

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by joetoml1n, May 22, 2012.

  1. Peasantslayer

    Peasantslayer

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    Just penalise Vettel for the corner cut early on which eventually led to him being released just ahead of Hamilton (I'm not talking about the first corner, he had no option then). :grumpy: Apparently Ferrari will be the only team protesting according to a few team bosses on the Sky F1 channel so I'm guessing it's not a serious infringement of the rules.
     
  2. GTPorsche

    GTPorsche

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    If the Monaco result was going to be changed, it would have happened already. The RB chassis was deemed legal, so there's no point of changing that decision after the race is run.

    Edit: Vettel didn't gain positions taking that shortcut to avoid an accident. He was behind Massa when he went that way and came out behind Massa.
     
  3. Peter.

    Peter.

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    If Vettel didn't corner cut ,he wouldn't have made it past turn 1. Grosjean just nearly hit him even after swerving.
     
  4. SagarisGTB

    SagarisGTB

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    Yeah, but same thing could be said about Di Resta (who you list as a winner). He was slower than Hulkenburg in Q and the race but managed to finish ahead of his teammate (and Senna) through sheer luck. Hulkenburg was held up badly by Raikkonen and he also had the misfortune of pitting on the same lap as him. After the Hulk finally cleared Kimi, he caught Di Resta fairly quickly, but by then it was too late and he then held position in Paul's mirrors for the rest of the race.

    Vettel, on the other hand, put in many many good laps in on the Soft tire when is rivals where on far fresher rubber and had to work hard for hisd postion gains as nobody in front was held up too badly. You need to give Vettel credit where credit is due.
     
  5. Peasantslayer

    Peasantslayer

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    I edited my post I meant Nouvelle chicane.
     
  6. hornet_burnout

    hornet_burnout

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    Well, just finished watching it and it was a very interesting race, especially cause I FFWD the longer boring bits :D

    I have to point out a great race from Perez who was last coming into T1 (wisely), and yes, I also have to say this to all those that were so eager to state they had found a new shepperd recently: "I told you so..."

    Feel bad for Grosjean, but a bad start and he found himself 4 wide, and he just draw the short straw.

    Alonso on a Ferrari leading the Championship? Awesome job again making the absolute best out of what he gets.
     
  7. Blaze_409

    Blaze_409

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    Can we have a caption contest on that flying Sauber....
    "To Infiniti and Beyond!"
     
  8. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    At least 3 cars passed him into turn one by cutting the corner (But he also overtook Kobayashi and Grosjean). Namely Di Resta, Kovalainen, Glock and Pic.

    Then he was held up behind Kovalainen. Kovalainen defended excellently. Always leaving a car width into the chicane, placing his car exactly in the right place, it was an excellent performance from him. The fact Button did not jump Kovalainen in the pit stops really ended his race, he should have easily got past, but I guess he stayed out too long waiting for rain.

    The problem started with poor qualifying. Hopefully he can redeem himself next time out. But I have to say, the Mclaren did not look like the fastest car, neither in qualifying or race trim. Red Bull and Mercedes had them pipped in both, and Ferrari were stronger in the race.
     
  9. Peasantslayer

    Peasantslayer

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    I thought you did something really clever then but realised you were talking about Sauber. :D

    Infinity - Something without limit
    Infiniti - Car manufacturer and Red Bull sponsor
     
  10. hornet_burnout

    hornet_burnout

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  11. Ardius

    Ardius

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    I don't think this was really Perez' best outing, it was pretty scrappy. Generally Sauber did not deliver on the potential the car has. And its not even their own fault - Kobayashi was screwed in the first corner (though he probably should have qualified higher in the first place) and Perez was unlucky due to the damage from Maldonaldo.
    Perez made decent progress but got unlucky with Raikkonen and then got caught up being lapped by the leaders (and held up and crashing into Kovalainen).

    A weekend to forget for a lot of people really.
     
  12. hornet_burnout

    hornet_burnout

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    He put in a great effort, fighting hard for positions without crashing, and ended behind Senna and Raikonnen, in 11th. Pretty good considering he started basically last in Monaco, had less track time and a rebuilt car.
     
  13. IceMan PJN

    IceMan PJN

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    You must mean "aspect" rather than "concept". Implying that it's a concept of Formula One means suggesting that the FIA consciously decided "We should make it so that whoever wins pole wins the race." Nobody decided it should be that way. It's just the way it works out.

    If you start making decisions to artificially mix things up, then you're talking about a concept, and one that I would frown on. If we don't have authenticity in our motorsports, we might just as well replace drivers with actors and digitally insert them into CGI races that are scripted. If we start doing inverted grids, adding "success ballast" to the cars of drivers who do well, or randomly select grid positions, it becomes the WWE and it's no longer a real sport but rather just shallow entertainment.

    While we're at it, let's spice up football games by having a coin toss two thirds of the way in, with the outcome deciding whether or not the two teams' points are swapped. How about placing targets in the outfield at baseball games and if the batter hits the ball and it strikes one of those targets their entire team automatically runs onto the field and laps the diamond for a whole pile of home runs, but if the ball knocks the target over the team loses any and all points earned up to that point in the game. In basketball, if one team has at least twice as many points as the other half-way through the game, the top team's players suddenly get swapped with cheerleaders.

    Wow, it's fun mixing things up for the sake of entertainment! What else can I fix?
     
  14. ROAD_DOGG33J

    ROAD_DOGG33J Premium

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    I always enjoy watching the race at Monaco even in processional races like this. At least the top 6 guys were all very close to each other. Each lap is an adventure and a lapse in concentration can put you out of the race.

    If what the commentators said about the different driving style required for this track is true, it will be interesting to see if Massa keeps his pace up or Schumacher can get another pole somewhere else.
     
  15. Prince.M5

    Prince.M5

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    For those who have been watching F1 here in Monaco for a long time, they will know that for each and every year, it will be utterly boring. Pretty much self explanatory to why is it so but what makes it so interesting to watch is that they are running extremely close to each other that a single mistake will result in a disaster - perhaps a ballsy move which also could end up in a real big disaster.

    It happens not only in F1 but also in some other discipline such as GP2, Porsche Supercup and others. The only time when Monaco can get a little less boring is when it's raining but it just won't happen every single year unless Bernie decided to introduce the artificial wet racing.
     
  16. niky

    niky Moderator

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    A full reverse grid (based on championship points) every six races would be nice. Imagine... Karthikayen winning Monaco...

    I actually thought it was a spectacular run on worn Softs, but I'm kind of miffed that the handicap he was overcomng was a self-imposed handicap.

    Then again... the gamble almost worked. If it had rained, Vettel would have won.


    I think that it was inevitable when they heard there might be rain. Everybody started playing conservatively with the lap times... so to go in early meant coming back out stacked up behind people in traffic... some of whom might be aiming for a lap time much slower than the front-runners... or who might be pushing a bit too long on their tires (Kimi).

    But the moment people started streaming into the pits, that would have been a good time to actually do it... I was almost screaming at the TV for Lotus to pit Kimi. But then, Lotus-Renault have been fluffing strategy calls all season...
     
  17. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    According to Vergne, it wasn't a strategy call - all his slick tyres were in such poor condition that the team had no choice but to stick on a set of inters and hope for the best.

    Which makes me wonder what Vergne was doing to chew through all his good rubber so quickly ...
     
  18. ROAD_DOGG33J

    ROAD_DOGG33J Premium

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    I'm not seeing the part where it says all the slicks were worn out. He came in because his tires were worn out and then they did the weather gamble.

    If he didn't short-stop on the super softs he would have been fine.
     
  19. hornet_burnout

    hornet_burnout

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    Tire management again was key as I expected, and saving rubber to push in the right moments was where places were made or at least maintained.

    The possibility of rain meant everyone in the front was trying to go with one stop and manage pace, come rain or shine. Webber mainly, leading and being virtually impossible to overtake, dictated not only his but also his followers pace and strategy.

    So Nico did what he had to do, the worst thing that could happen (besides rain) was Webber to pit immediately after, and for him to remain second. He was gambling on Webber staying out waiting for the never coming rain, then he could push on new tires and gain the lead when Webber pitted. Webber and RBR reacted immediately and Nico was back in "second".

    Alonso looked slower than Massa initially but that was just him hanging back to save tires, maintaining a good pace on clean air. When the time came, he pushed and gained a place on Hamilton in the pits.

    Massa was told to push at the same time, before the pit stops, to see if he could get Hamilton as well, but he couldn't pull it off.

    Hamilton... I don't know if he just didn't have the speed to make a push before pitting and was already pushing as hard as he could, or if the team just pulled him in before we could do so. I'd think the first, he had nothing more to give trying to maintain Alonso at bay and not loose a place in the pits.

    Vettel, although I agree his strategy was debatable (who knows what he could've qualified and where he'd be in with a good start), was the best at the game. He pushed when he got the lead and Webber's response determined where he would come out after the pit stop. Webber pushed enough to make sure Vettel didn't get a >20s lead over him but that also "allowed" Nico and Alonso to do the same. Again, Hamilton, bad timing or lack of pace, got just barely overtaken by Vettel.

    Schumacher, I believe he had damage from the start and that meant he had to park it. Too bad.

    Button... well nightmare may be a good description for his weekend.

    Kimi staying out that long... another "bad" decision, another lost opportunity.

    Had it rained... But then, that would be a completely different race for everyone, not just them.

    Have to leave this here as well:
    "I've just been talking to the engineers about the next race and trying to not do the same mistakes we made here, especially with the car and trying to improve on the technical side."

    http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/7783043/Maldonado-This-is-racing

    I guess Dhalism is right, he's the only one doing it right...
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  20. gorsad

    gorsad

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    True, the best part of the race for me was Heikki holding up Button and then Perez, unfortunately the TV didn't show much of that. :grumpy:
     
  21. Prince.M5

    Prince.M5

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    Meh, the whole coverage handling by the local Monaco TV director was a mess :(
     
  22. BMW320IRL

    BMW320IRL

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    I also noticed, that Button was in trouble and was struggling to pass Heikki, and that fact was a sensation for me!
     
  23. Centura

    Centura Premium

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    Pretty much. The coverage at Monaco and Suzuka is always much worse than at other races.
     
  24. nissman

    nissman

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    There was a race about 5 or more years ago. I remember it was over 10 overtakes out off the tunnel if I'm not mistaking. Quite an eventful race it was.

    Edit: I think it was the race when Coulthard smashed in the barierrs near thew pool section. Not sure thought.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  25. Peter.

    Peter.

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    Monaco is traditionally not a very exciting race in the dry, but we all gear up for it regardless, because it's Moanco. Its history, coupled with the thrill and beauty of watching those drivers go head to hear for 78 laps, pushing their limits, hoping that at some point that can get ahead of the guy ahead, is what makes us wake up early on a Sunday Morning in May every year.

    I don't think the TV directors are really to blame much, because there wasn't much of a battle anywhere else on track than at the front. The midfield battle was the Trulli Kimi train of drivers moving at a snail's pace, waiting for rain that never came, while their strategists in the pits had a nap.
     
  26. Ardius

    Ardius

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    If he hadn't of short-stopped he wouldn't have jumped half the field. Which is why I wonder what on earth all those teams were thinking hanging on for weather which had yet to appear.
    Personally, unless the race is somewhere like Malaysia where it can turn into a rainstorm in seconds, I would never hang on waiting for the weather - I'd put fresh slicks on and try and get the undercut.

    It would be understandable for the guys further up front to wait for the weather. But for the midfield drivers (especially Raikkonen!) they were screwing themselves over.

    Perhaps they were worried about Monaco being a street track and getting very slippery when its wet but still the rain had really not appeared at all. I just can't understand leaving your driver stuck behind 4 or 5 other cars knowing he is losing pace when he could be in clear air making up chunks of time.
     
  27. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    Yes, but waiting for the rain wasn't necessarily a bad thing, it depends on the circumstances. Vettel's wait for rain let him jump Massa and Hamilton. Button had to wait for rain because let's be honest, he had no other choice. In Raikkonen's case though, you are dead right (And those bottled up behind Kimi too).

    The thing is if it did start raining and everybody had to come in for inters, then they've got ~20 seconds on the people who pitted for slicks earlier (Maybe less depending on how the car reacts to the prime tyres). It just didn't work out for them. You may have been shouting at the TV as I doubt you made that judgement solely on hindsight, but it was a very difficult decision for the teams; those in the points had a lot to lose and if it did start raining they would have been caught behind the traffic they were trying to jump because they'd be out of phase with the pitstops and therefore behind them on-track.

    From the pitstop window (around lap 20-25) the forecast was 'rain in a few minutes' and so anyone who did pit would've looked a little silly if it had rained.

    I'm not totally disagreeing with you; they were on the wrong strategy, i'm just trying to justify the strategy most teams had. In the context of the race, the teams were expecting rain shortly after the first pit stop window. An early pitstop would've been catastrophic to anyones race had it started raining. If it started to rain around lap 25, Vergne probably would've ended up at the back of the midfield.
     
  28. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Yes I realise the whole point was that they didn't want to lose 20 seconds in the pits if the rain came - my point is they were losing way more than that to people like Vergne even if it had rained for a couple of laps. Slicks are not impossible to race with in slightly wet conditions and there has been plenty of cross-over in the past.
    The main worry (as I suggested before) is that Monaco is a bit more slippery in the wet and so being on slicks for any amount of time is a risk not worth taking.

    But really, I'm referring to drivers and teams who had literally nothing to lose by trying to go for an undercut. I'm not referring to the race-leaders - they are obviously always going to go for a conservative strategy and wait for everyone else to pit.
    Its the fact the entire field bar Vergne and Di Resta I think stuck to the same stategy despite being so slow behind traffic. If Senna, Hulkenburg and Schumacher had also pitted earlier, they could have potentially come out nearer Vettel or even further up - such was the slow pace of the general pack. Instead they chose to get held up by Raikkonen waiting for rain that never appeared.

    Normally its Sauber or someone who goes for the boring conservative strategy calls trying to 1-stop. But this race it was nearly everyone, making the race pretty dull.
    It just seemed too much like the strategists were too busy worrying about the weather radar than actually sticking their hand out the pit garage and making a judgment call on the current conditions. Time lost pitting can be made up easily just by being on the right tyre at the right time. I'm just disappointed nobody had the balls to go all-out attack - partly because its more exciting for the race but also because it makes perfect sense to give it a gamble!
     
  29. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    On any other track certainly, but here where track position is key... I suppose all the teams were being very conservative with their strategy.

    In other news, Massa has turned a corner. He turned lots of corners in Monaco, for sure.
     
  30. Earth

    Earth

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    To me that just highlights the inability to pass and makes it all the more frustrating. Last year's race was another example, Button was 2 seconds a lap quicker then the two cars ahead of him but could do nothing.

    At Monaco I'd much rather have one car go out and crush the field and ooh and aww over a dominant performance then watch the 3rd or 4th fastest car lead and hold everyone up for 40 laps.