2012 Japanese Grand Prix

[Akmuq]

So you don't like his celebrations? I don't like the way Lewis waves his fists about, but you don't see me complaining. If you want to talk about annoying celebrations, go and watch football.

I'm pretty sure that is a complaint...

 

[F1 fan]

This championship is looking more like it will be decided on retirements. And while I am certainly no headmaster of Formula 1, I think Alonso deserves this title more than anyone else.

Are you forgetting that the reason Alonso was able to build up such a lead in the first place was the misfortune of his rivals. I'm not putting down his performances, but he was flattered by the misfortune of others. Now we have five races left with the top two drivers four points apart and a few others within reach. How is that boring?

I'm pretty sure that is a complaint...

I said "I don't like". Not a complaint. I was only giving an example anyway. Take a look back at any thread where Vettel took pole and/or a race win and look at the flood of whining about a finger. I can only guess those people are suffering from "finger envy".

 

[m8h3r]

I really hope this goes to the final race with 3 or 4 people in it, however I don't see that happening. Providing there is no failures with Vettels car then this is his championship. His car is dominant in comparison with Alonso's and even though the starts have been pretty unusual with Maldonado or Grosjean crashing at almost all races I wouldn't have thought that anyone else could catch up to them two now.

 

[Centura]

No but last season was, when Vettel was winning most of the time..

So, you're saying it wasn't boring and predictable one time and boring and predictable the other time.

If Vettel wins the title this year, it has a 50% chance of being boring and predictable!

 

[Brend]

On the subject of Grand Chelem's, here is a list of the top 11 drivers with the most Grand Chelem's. Vettel is tied for eight with Fangio, Brabham and Hakkinen who each have two.



Yes it does. It's an expression. I have no idea of the origin of the expression, but my Grandmother said it all the time.

Edit: According to Urban dictionary, it's either of Scottish or Scouse origin. Language warning. Stereotype warning too.

I've always wondered why I say 'messages'.

and not seen the full race yet but all I can say is...we are in for a hell of a finish guys.

 

[darkfinal]

If Alonso and Vettel's place were switched for the last three years, Alonso would be a five-times world champion and nobody would have EVER heard of Vettel's finger.

I had to say this. Vettel's LOST several races while still having the best car in the field. Most of Alonso's wins have been in the second-to-fourth best car.

So. The noob who's talking ignorant nonsense today. Shut up, please.

 

[mister dog]

So you don't like his celebrations? I don't like the way Lewis waves his fists about, but you don't see me complaining. If you want to talk about annoying celebrations, go and watch football.

I forgot to mention "woohooo,... yess!!"

Indeed i don't like his celebrations for lack of spontaniousness.
And i appreciate footballers celebrating after marking a goal more, than someone who drives from start to finish to the win because he has the best car under him. Everyone already knew the outcome before the race started as those red bulls were in a league of their own, so there's really no need to act like you just won euromillions each time you come home in first.

 

[homeforsummer]

Hah! I take back my comment then That rather suggests he was aware of Kimi then!

Take a look back at any thread where Vettel took pole and/or a race win and look at the flood of whining about a finger. I can only guess those people are suffering from "finger envy".

To be fair to those who dislike his celebration (myself included), I think it's because it seems more like a display of arrogance rather than any joy at victory. It's very different from leaping and smiling on the podium.

If Vettel wins the title this year, it has a 50% chance of being boring and predictable!

Depends how (and if, of course) he wins it If he just clears off like he did at Japan for the last four races, it'd probably be a bit boring and predictable. If it goes down to the wire and there's a point between him and Alonso at the last race, then probably not...

 

[HeXoSKEL3t0n]

If Alonso and Vettel's place were switched for the last three years, Alonso would be a five-times world champion and nobody would have EVER heard of Vettel's finger.

I had to say this. Vettel's LOST several races while still having the best car in the field. Most of Alonso's wins have been in the second-to-fourth best car.

So. The noob who's talking ignorant nonsense today. Shut up, please.

This isn't 2011, this year Vettel clearly doesn't have the best car of the field, if you had actually been taking notice. Check out China, Spain, Hungary, Spa and Monza to see what I mean.

Also, not really intending to downplay Alonso's great results, but it has actually been possible only due to his rivals tripping over each other, with each of the front runners having obvious weaknesses in different circuits (or pit botch ups by Mclaren at the first half races)...

Even though I'll admit he has been very good to have been able to capitalise on all his rivals mistakes, congrats to Alonso (even though I'm not his biggest fan, he clearly has won my respect in this sense)

P.S Please don't call other people ignorant noobs just because you think your opinion's superior , it's not very nice.

I forgot to mention "woohooo,... yess!!"

Indeed i don't like his celebrations for lack of spontaniousness.
And i appreciate footballers celebrating after marking a goal more, than someone who drives from start to finish to the win because he has the best car under him. Everyone already knew the outcome before the race started as those red bulls were in a league of their own, so there's really no need to act like you just won euromillions each time you come home in first.

I think it's refreshing to see a driver like him being ever so positive after winning IMO, even though he has had plenty of race wins under his belt already.

Shows that he's still really an awesome young child at heart, that appreciates each of his wins real well.

Besides, anything could happen during these type of races, even out there in the front. So he'd obviously be very happy that no misfortune has befell him during the race.

 

[Hyper-Dan]

To be fair to those who dislike his celebration (myself included), I think it's because it seems more like a display of arrogance rather than any joy at victory. It's very different from leaping and smiling on the podium.

This!! 👍

 

[The Outlaw]

Heh, might sound funny, but I agree with you. He is a brilliant driver, there is no doubt on that. But the comments he gives when things doesn't go his way, remind me the times from Renault and that's where I disagree. I believe he hasn't changed. I think he is simply playing a role and these kind of circumstances show his true colors. This is my personal problem, but I simply don't like him. Crash-gate, spy-gate, comments, etc. has made me loose my respect towards him. Of course this also makes it harder for me when he is driving brilliantly But that was offtopic, so enough of that.

From Autosport:
"I had no space on the right, I had Button I think on my left, I had Kimi... and I don't understand why Kimi didn't lift off or anything because there was not any room," Alonso said of the first corner fracas.

"I don't know what Kimi's idea was for the first corner, but that is the way it is and this time it was bad luck for us."

Let him say it himself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_sMZG0MLcc

Every now and then Alonso forgets that F1 is racing where you have to battle for positions and not everyone will simply drive off the track for "King Alonso". I also like how he totally diminishes Felipes result in the Autosport interview.


Yeah, needless to say, I'm rooting for Vettel for WC.


Edit:
@gorsand
After watching this, it seems that Button turned towards Alonso after those pictures. But still, there was enough room for Alonso not to run into Räikkönen. I also think that it's a racing incident, he got startled by Buttons move and made an avoiding action. Kimi couldn't jump hard on the brakes because half of his tires were on the grass. Racing incident, but if someone should take the blame, it should imo be Alonso. He seems to think otherwise, but that's nothing new.

I always get a kick out of those who so easily get there feathers ruffled anytime "big bad Alonso" has even the slightest thing to rant about. Not only do you act as though no other drivers are guilty of the same damn thing, but further blow his comments and tone out of porportion with your outside ranting.

After being asked what his understanding was of the accident (which maybe he hadn't fully reviewed by then), I think it's obvious and he was a bit frustrated (understandably so, regardless of who's fault), but at the same time he seemed equally composed after a situation which could have very well cost him 18 points and potentialy the Championship.



Furthermore, since you seem to be nitpicking Alonso negative attitude, I take it you happened to turn a blind eye to Kimi's arrogance yesterday, after fouling up many peoples runs in Q3 (inlcuding Alonso's)?

The title is definitely Vettel's to lose now.
The only way Alonso have a shot at the title is if Vettel has a retirement. He just doesn't have the car, so unfortunately for him, it doesn't matter how brilliant and amazing he is each race.

Although Newey has seemed to finally have unlocked the potential of the RB8, weather could very well play a large factor in the remaining races and play more so into the hands of the F2012 (although the RB8 might be much stronger in the rain, now that is much further developed).

For Alonso sake I hope we see a lot of wet races from here on out, otherwise he'll likely watch the Championship slip away.

I was also quite impressed once again with Ricciardo in this race, I think its easy to miss that what with the podium results but he drove another great race to pick up valuable points that are pretty hard to come by in that car. He's making Vergne look very ordinary.

I'm with you on that. Another impressive drive from Ricciardo today. Hopefully he gets a RBR seat in the not too distant future, because I certainly see him as being LEGIT.

 

[Peasantslayer]

I forgot to mention "woohooo,... yess!!"

Indeed i don't like his celebrations for lack of spontaniousness.
And i appreciate footballers celebrating after marking a goal more, than someone who drives from start to finish to the win because he has the best car under him. Everyone already knew the outcome before the race started as those red bulls were in a league of their own, so there's really no need to act like you just won euromillions each time you come home in first.

How about after his Hungary pole? "Yeah boysss!!"

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

How about after his Hungary pole? "Yeah boysss!!"

Did I actually read someone's comments saying that Vettel is arrogant? How?! Because he's dating a Malaysian model and owns a yacht? No, that's Hamilton.


Vettel's cool because he seems just like anyone if us, but shows us the REAL pace of F1.


As for those of you who think that Vettel's boring, that pass at Monza last year was incredible, and his lap at Suzuka was astonishing. He's not the type of guy to mess about with idiots like Grosjean and Maldonado. He's like me; (Oh, I'm in the lead? Run away! Those idiots will spin each other! They can't spin me if I run away!!)



Otherwise, how can we even be sure that the RB8 is better? How is it better? Because Vettel and Webber can give good feedback to the engineers? That still makes Vettel a better racing driver. I'm not here to watch general lunacy, I'm here to watch racing. I don't care how the drivers celebrate, or what their strategy calls are.


At least Vettel isn't the "Yes Man" for the engineers like Ferrari/Massa. Vettel runs how he wants.


Why don't you guys respect him for his talent?


You would have already compared him with Ayrton Senna, if he had been in a different car or team. But, no, instead, you all talk down about him, the twice world champion 24 year old. Considering the other, younger drivers, like Bruno, Romain and Pastor... I think we really should respect Vettel, for at least knowing how to finish every race his alternator allows him to finish.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

Vettel is good but he's not like Senna, he's more like Prost.

Lewis is much closer to Senna driving style and madness.

 

[vompatti]

I always get a kick out of those who so easily get there feathers ruffled anytime "big bad Alonso" has even the slightest thing to rant about. Not only do you act as though no other drivers are guilty of the same damn thing, but further blow his comments and tone out of porportion with your outside ranting.

After being asked what his understanding was of the accident (which maybe he hadn't fully reviewed by then), I think it's obvious and he was a bit frustrated (understandably so, regardless of who's fault), but at the same time he seemed equally composed after a situation which could have very well cost him 18 points and potentialy the Championship.

Furthermore, since you seem to be nitpicking Alonso negative attitude, I take it you happened to turn a blind eye to Kimi's arrogance yesterday, after fouling up many peoples runs in Q3 (inlcuding Alonso's)?

Maybe you are reading too much into my post. If you did notice, I said that I don't like him (I have my reasons, which I also explained breafly but going it thoroughly would be such a big offtopic that I won't go in there). I also said, that for the same reason I wouldn't want to see him winning the title. I do believe I'm allowed for my own opinion to like/dislike different drivers

But the reason I posted in the first place was that there were some people blaming Kimi for the incident, also Fernando himself. He often demands certain behaviour from others on the track but then he doesn't play by the same rules and blames others for his mistakes (they should be men enough to admit their own mistakes). That was what I tried to point out, but if you get your ”kick” out of it, then so be it. I'm glad to help.

What comes to Kimi's comment, yeah, not very nice, but at least honest.

I have to say that different kind of persons, regardless if they are likeable or unlikeable from my point of view are good for the sport. It's a lot more dull to watch races (or any sport) if I can't root for anyone. There are many drives I like and dislike through the field.

 

[Peasantslayer]

Did I actually read someone's comments saying that Vettel is arrogant? How?! Because he's dating a Malaysian model and owns a yacht? No, that's Hamilton.


Vettel's cool because he seems just like anyone if us, but shows us the REAL pace of F1.


As for those of you who think that Vettel's boring, that pass at Monza last year was incredible, and his lap at Suzuka was astonishing. He's not the type of guy to mess about with idiots like Grosjean and Maldonado. He's like me; (Oh, I'm in the lead? Run away! Those idiots will spin each other! They can't spin me if I run away!!)



Otherwise, how can we even be sure that the RB8 is better? How is it better? Because Vettel and Webber can give good feedback to the engineers? That still makes Vettel a better racing driver. I'm not here to watch general lunacy, I'm here to watch racing. I don't care how the drivers celebrate, or what their strategy calls are.


At least Vettel isn't the "Yes Man" for the engineers like Ferrari/Massa. Vettel runs how he wants.


Why don't you guys respect him for his talent?


You would have already compared him with Ayrton Senna, if he had been in a different car or team. But, no, instead, you all talk down about him, the twice world champion 24 year old. Considering the other, younger drivers, like Bruno, Romain and Pastor... I think we really should respect Vettel, for at least knowing how to finish every race his alternator allows him to finish.

I was talking about Hamilton... I don't think Vettel is as good as he looks because Red Bull are the perfect team even when their car isn't the quickest (just look at Webber in the table, he's had his share of bad races this season but he's scored that many points this season). Having said that you don't win 2 drivers titles without being an incredible driver. I would say that the fastest driver and most Senna-esque driver is Lewis, he can go way faster than anyone else in Q3, without having the best car, whilst keeping it between the white lines which Vettel rarely does and he's got into Q3 at every attempt this year. That doesn't mean I think he's the best driver though, that title would have to go to Alonso.

 

[Brend]

I've never found Kimi "funny" or "quirky".

...Just a bit of a tosser.

 

[Anghammarad]

As for those of you who think that Vettel's boring, that pass at Monza last year was incredible,

The fact that you actually bring that particular pass up as proof just shows how utterly boring his driving is. His own teammate routinely makes such passes more or less every race as does half the field. Vettel is fast, when he is in a car that suits him perfectly, but spectacular he's not.

 

[mister dog]

You would have already compared him with Ayrton Senna, if he had been in a different car or team. But, no, instead, you all talk down about him, the twice world champion 24 year old. Considering the other, younger drivers, like Bruno, Romain and Pastor... I think we really should respect Vettel, for at least knowing how to finish every race his alternator allows him to finish.

All due respect, but my granny would have been world champion already if she would have driven a red bull in the last 3 years. Just like mansell in '92, mainly the car and Adrian Newey's brilliance winning races there.

Senna was out of this world because he won races and blitzed everyone with a lesser car, only Alonso hints at this more or less nowadays.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

Now that I've had a sleep, quick reactions to the race.

Vettel: After he wraps up WDC #3, I think history is going to see his battling, damage-control drive at Spa as the start of his comeback. I think that one worthy of even Alonso in the dogged-determination aspect of what makes an F1 champion. Here at Suzuka, we saw a top driver on his favorite track. His in-cars through the esses are never anything less than beautiful, and I loved the new-for-this-year shots of the RB8 mid-corner in turn 1. You could see how much more planted Vettel was there than anyone else. We've entered a stretch now of tracks that play to Vettel's strengths, and Alonso because of his bad luck at Spa just didn't come into them with a big enough points cushion.

Webber: His comments on Grosjean make for interesting reading, but Mark really needs to look in the mirror and ask himself why he was somewhere other than in front of Vettel or right behind his gearbox. Another poor start left him vulnerable. That's down to him, period.

Raikkonen: Frustration is beginning to show. Should have a win by now, doesn't.

Grosjean: A tale of two alternators. Vettel shook off his failure at Valencia, but for Romain it's been all downhill from there. His mistakes are those of a guy who's pressing and doesn't feel his place in the sport is secure. He'll be fine next year.

Kobayashi & Massa: Really the same drives, from two guys who from a make-or-break career standpoint needed them. Can't fault their response under pressure. This is probably the result Kobayashi would have obtained at Spa had he not been taken out.

Edit: By the way, Vettel isn't where he is this year because he's in the "best car." Hamilton and Button had the best car up to Singapore, and for various reasons didn't make the most of it. And for all the stick Ferrari has taken and even given itself, the F2012 isn't garbage.

 

[ghskilla]

And about the alternator issue, Vettel's car only DNF'ed twice this year due to that issue. Quit suggesting that his alternator overheats every race.

 

[m8h3r]

Edit: By the way, Vettel isn't where he is this year because he's in the "best car." Hamilton and Button had the best car up to Singapore, and for various reasons didn't make the most of it. And for all the stick Ferrari has taken and even given itself, the F2012 isn't garbage.

I'd say button just had a bad middle of the year. His form slumped, but he looks better now. Hamilton was just screwed over so many times by the pit crew that when you think of how different things would have been had none of them happened.

 

[Pagey279]

The front wing broke dissipating most of the energy. Alonso was already pretty much gone by that point. I'm not going to argue the toss with you. Just go back and read the bloody posts already.

No he wasn't. It was the final piece of contact, just after Kimi had all 4 wheels back on the track that instantly de-laminated his left rear tyre, which sent him into the spin.

This is the best footage I could find, you can see it, just.



The contact takes place just after 8 seconds, straight after he's gone.




Anyway after FINALLY seeing the race it was a bit dull really. Alonso tried to squeeze Kimi, squeezed him just a tad too much and payed the price. I'm not saying it was his fault but he had a couple of feet to the inside he could have moved into.

Perez I think was a bit too overconfident from his earlier pass on Hamilton, in my eyes he went to try it again and took too much speed into the hairpin. Again he payed the price.

Great drive from Vettel, he's done this many times before so he knows all too well what he had to do to win. It really spices up the championship with only a few races left

Great to see Massa back up there, I'm worried though that it might be too little too late for him to keep his seat at Ferrari.

Webber extremely unlucky, Grosjean was doing what he does best at the start of a grand prix. Being a first class fool 👎

Hard to pick a drive of the day really, Hulkenberg drove really well, as did Vettel, Massa and of course Kobayashi.

 

[The Outlaw]

Maybe you are reading too much into my post. If you did notice, I said that I don't like him (I have my reasons, which I also explained breafly but going it thoroughly would be such a big offtopic that I won't go in there). I also said, that for the same reason I wouldn't want to see him winning the title. I do believe I'm allowed for my own opinion to like/dislike different drivers .

And I feel just as entitled to question how your opinion is formed.

I just find it questionable as to how you can use Alonso's reaction to the incident as some genuine reasoning to not like him and hope for someone (Vettel) else to win the title ...when nearly all of the other drivers on the grid are guilty of the same damn thing. I mean did you not watch Turkey 2010 and Vettel's coming together with Webber, and particularly Vettel's hand gesture after he hopped out of the car??

Nearly all the drivers on the grid rant and moan (often far worse than what Alonso did today) often to the point of being extreme and delusional (a lot of Hamilton & Massa accidents last year ), but to single out Alonso as if he is the only driver out there guilty of misplacing blame is a bit far fetched and simply blowing his reaction to the incident out of perspective.

Alonso might not have been entirely fair in his view (which is so often the case when the drivers are asked so shortly after the race), but it's not like he threw a complete tantrum (it was far from that) and was directly asking the stewards to penalize Kimi. But I guess if you tend not to like someone for their past actions...instinct makes it easy to generalize and contort circumstances to support the view.

But the reason I posted in the first place was that there were some people blaming Kimi for the incident, also Fernando himself. He often demands certain behaviour from others on the track but then he doesn't play by the same rules and blames others for his mistakes (they should be men enough to admit their own mistakes). That was what I tried to point out, but if you get your ”kick” out of it, then so be it. I'm glad to help..

When it comes to on track battles, Alonso is one of the hardest but fairest drivers around (certainly no worse than say Schumacher, Webber of the past or Vettel/Hamilton at times). To say that "he doesn't play by the same rules and blames other for his mistakes" is a bit of an exageration, and made even worse when you support drivers who have been just about as guilty as Alonso at times.

What comes to Kimi's comment, yeah, not very nice, but at least honest..

And Alonso was probably being just as honest when asked what he felt happened in the accident...

I have to say that different kind of persons, regardless if they are likeable or unlikeable from my point of view are good for the sport. It's a lot more dull to watch races (or any sport) if I can't root for anyone. There are many drives I like and dislike through the field.

I definitely agree with you on this aspect

 

[Grand Prix]

I don't particularly like Alonso, Vettel or Hamilton, but yes, Alonso has changed dramatically from his Renault championship winning years. At least in appearance.

Really hoping Perez shines in the McLaren seat. It's getting harder for me to follow F1 as I realize that the only championship winning drivers are arrogant prima-donnas. Vettel's determination is to be admired somewhat though.


Was fantastic to see Massa and Kobayahsi on the podium. 👍

 

[zippy_the_cat]

Hamilton was just screwed over so many times by the pit crew that when you think of how different things would have been had none of them happened.

His DNF at Valencia was purely down to him. Should've recognized the situation and backed out of it.

 

[Shinshiki]

Saving bandwidth.

Interesting article about Vettel I read a while back.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/ask_nigel/23650/

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Interesting article about Vettel I read a while back.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/ask_nigel/23650/

Interesting opinion there. Not too many facts, asides from the one we all know (he wins a lot) and that this season's been tougher.


But, indeed, I think we can all remember a time when I got too :cesnored: off to keep my mouth shut after some idiot hits me. That's why I'm actually of some notoriety, in Canada. Back in my karting career, several people compared me to Schumi and Alonso, in that I was smooth, and able to lead, from flag-to-flag, without even building up anxiety. I was cool-headed.


Sebastian is even more cool-headed than I am, when he's calm, and even more 🤬 off than I, when I am. That's why he's in F1. And, I couldn't afford it.


But, after showing the Canadian National Champion what's what, in a televised interview, I realized that only the d:censored:heads really get into motorsports, at such a high level.


Now, more than ever, I try to channel my anger into driving, and I notice that Sebastian does, too. That's why I like him. Rather than crying to the stewards, like some people, , he goes on a rampage in qualifying and gets the pole, and drives off.

When I get frustrated, that's what I do, too. That's how I won. I got angry about my past, and my lap times were a second or two faster than anyone else.

 

[Centura]

I'm surprised that Alonso stalled his engine. He could've got back to the pits and possibly continue on and score a point or two if he didn't suffer too much damage on the floor.

To be fair to those who dislike his celebration (myself included), I think it's because it seems more like a display of arrogance rather than any joy at victory. It's very different from leaping and smiling on the podium.

I think Vettel celebrate the way he does because he wants to cherish the moment and he doesn't know when it will happen the next time. Formula One can change very quickly.

Although Newey has seemed to finally have unlocked the potential of the RB8, weather could very well play a large factor in the remaining races and play more so into the hands of the F2012 (although the RB8 might be much stronger in the rain, now that is much further developed).

True. I didn't think of rain, but there's "only" chance of rain at two venues, imo. Korea and Brazil.

I can't imagine it causing any issues for Vettel. He's great in the rain and they will put out the safety car before there's a chance of crashing. Either way, that's why you don't see anyone say that X have won the title, because anything can still happen.

Gary Anderson recently said that the Ferrari could be weaker in the rain now than it used to be, because they have been making the car kinder to its tyres, so it might be unable to heat up the wet weather tyres enough.

And, I almost forgot. Ferrari have completely dropped the ball on the development race.

Now, more than ever, I try to channel my anger into driving, and I notice that Sebastian does, too. That's why I like him. Rather than crying to the stewards, like some people, , he goes on a rampage in qualifying and gets the pole, and drives off.

I think that's exactly what he did this weekend. He was very disappointed last year that he had to drive a conservative race to seal the title.

 

[PeterJB]

About bloody time Kobayashi got on the podium. Vettel could quite quite easily win the title now, and God forbid Karthikeyan ever finish a race.