2014 engines: inline-fours out, turbo-charged V6 engines in

[prisonermonkeys]

Why would you prefer an easy Eau Rouge over a hard Eau Rouge?

You wouldn't. But over the years, the cars have evolved to the point where aerodynamic grim has taken some of the skill out of corners like Eau Rouge and Bridge. That's what we need: regulations that reward drivers who demonstrate phenomenal car control. We've been steadily putting the emphasis back on the driver since traction control was banned; unfortuantely, it's taken several years to get to this point.

 

[PeterJB]

If they're gonna look like 80's cars, lets hope they go like 80's cars!

 

[Alex.]

Well, with KERS loaded in the front wing, and therefore a lower nose plus smaller wings and more ground effects, probably not far from:

The williams FW0(7?) is a fantastic looking car. But you have to think, the cars won't look anything like that at all. I think you may have just got a tad excited when they said ground effects and smaller wings so jumped back to 1980. The drivers will be much further back and the cars will be a lot thinner and longer, with very tight nipped bodywork, and wings that look too small for the car, in my opinion. If only we could have the cars looking like that^.

 

[Peter]

You wouldn't. But over the years, the cars have evolved to the point where aerodynamic grim has taken some of the skill out of corners like Eau Rouge and Bridge. That's what we need: regulations that reward drivers who demonstrate phenomenal car control. We've been steadily putting the emphasis back on the driver since traction control was banned; unfortuantely, it's taken several years to get to this point.

Aerodynamic grip has also taken the danger out of those corners too. Now the drivers don't have to worry about losing it in the corner and crashing very heavily, but in 2013, they will. And with less downforce created by wings and more by ground effect, wouldn't the cars be more prone to taking off?

 

[AlexGTV]

And with less downforce created by wings and more by ground effect, wouldn't the cars be more prone to taking off?

Seems reasonable. As a matter of fact I don't want to even think about it.

 

[Peter]

Yeah, the new ground effect rules remind me of Gilles Villineive's crash. That was caused by his car getting a whiff of air under it from just small contact with a backmarker.

 

[AlexGTV]

Backmarker??

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Aerodynamic grip has also taken the danger out of those corners too.

Yes. That's what I said.

 

[Dotini]

Yeah, the new ground effect rules remind me of Gilles Villineive's crash. That was caused by his car getting a whiff of air under it from just small contact with a backmarker.

In my opinion the true reason for Villeneuve's crash was the qualifying tire rule in effect at the time.

 

[Akmuq]

Why do they need to change the regulations. 2010 was one of the best seasons ever. If nothing changed from that, I would be happy. But no, they have to change things up. At least the cars will look nicer.

 

[Peter]

How did that cause it? He was on a flying lap, caught up with a slower car, made contact, and went flying. He was throw from the car when it was flipping and hit catch fencing.

 

[Dotini]

How did that cause it? He was on a flying lap, caught up with a slower car, made contact, and went flying. He was throw from the car when it was flipping and hit catch fencing.

The Q-tires were good for only one flying lap. He went for it, as he must. He could not afford to back out. If qualifying had been on race tires, he could have backed out and gone for his time on another lap.

 

[Greycap]

Yeah, the new ground effect rules remind me of Gilles Villineive's crash. That was caused by his car getting a whiff of air under it from just small contact with a backmarker.

Well, take a look at what happened to Webber this year when he made pretty similar contact with Kovalainen - the car didn't only shoot up in the air but also somersaulted backwards while at it.

And no, Villeneuve wasn't thrown from the car when it was flipping. He was thrown from the car when it hit the ground and his seat broke free from the chassis that disintegrated down the track.

With a car of today he would have walked away from it, with a car of 1982 Webber would be dead now. But it's not a matter of ground effects in the least.

 

[Peter]

He was just lapping a slower car, that's a norm in qualifying.

 

[Peter]

Well, take a look at what happened to Webber this year when he made pretty similar contact with Kovalainen - the car didn't only shoot up in the air but also somersaulted backwards while at it.

And no, Villeneuve wasn't thrown from the car when it was flipping. He was thrown from the car when it hit the ground and his seat broke free from the chassis that disintegrated down the track.

With a car of today he would have walked away from it, with a car of 1982 Webber would be dead now. But it's not a matter of ground effects in the least.

Webber's contact with Heikki was a lot more violent. He hit Heikki while he was braking, his front wing came off, Heikki's wheel acted like a ramp, and Mark went flying. Gilles only touched the back wheel of the car he was lapping, hardly, and the car he made contact with kept going as if it were nothing. Heikki didn't go anywhere after his.

 

[Dotini]

He was just lapping a slower car, that's a norm in qualifying.

You're not paying attention, son. He was on a qaulifying lap from which he could not afford to back out due to the fact his wouldn't have grip on the next lap. It was not long after this terrible tragedy that Q-tires were forever banned for this very reason. Anyone who knows anything about the history of racing knows this.

 

[Ardius]

The williams FW0(7?) is a fantastic looking car. But you have to think, the cars won't look anything like that at all. I think you may have just got a tad excited when they said ground effects and smaller wings so jumped back to 1980. The drivers will be much further back and the cars will be a lot thinner and longer, with very tight nipped bodywork, and wings that look too small for the car, in my opinion. If only we could have the cars looking like that^.

It won't look exactly like that obviously, but the point is it won't look horrible either. It can only look better than the current cars in my opinion.

Why do they need to change the regulations. 2010 was one of the best seasons ever. If nothing changed from that, I would be happy. But no, they have to change things up. At least the cars will look nicer.

Best season in terms of the championship positions through the year, not the greatest for on track action.
The rules do need changing, they do need to make it easier for drivers to overtake than it is currently. There are cars being held up by far slower cars not through skill (or lack of it), but purely because it is far too difficult and risky to overtake currently.

While I do argue that F1 has never been about oodles of overtakes, I don't feel drivers are given much of a fighting chance currently. I like to see some overtaking, not loads, but some quality racing. And before we post Kobayashi Banzai dives, those are not "proper" overtakes in the sense that he really leaves no margin for error and simply puts faith in the other driver simply to let him past or crash. Overtaking should allow both attacker and defender a fair chance, though not always. F1 overtakes should not be just about making Dan Dare dives.

Its also nice to see further steps made to make the drivers work harder behind the wheel, though we won't necessarily see more mistakes (as current drivers are pretty damn good), just more dramatic mistakes.

 

[Akmuq]

I'm pretty sure there was a lot more overtaking this year than last, altough that's not saying much. I think the ban on refuelling helped as drivers realized that they had to do it on track instead of in the pits. If the brakes were not as good I'd say there would be more overtaking. Also if the cars were made to give the car behind a bigger draft.

 

[Ardius]

There was more overtaking due to the new teams fighting it out each race and various drivers trying unique tyre strategies which meant they had to fight back to the front on fresh tyres versus worn tyres.
But there were still many, many scenarios where we had faster cars catching slower cars and being unable to pass. We also had title contenders catching each other up only to be stuck losing grip in the corners and being unable to make any attack on their opponent.
Its not like Petrov was driving clever lines to block Alonso this year, he simply drove the racing line at Abu Dhabi and Turkey and Alonso simply couldn't put his car alongside anywhere on the track without diving on the brakes in an insane lunge. Not to discredit Petrov's mostly mistake-free drives at those races, but it wasn't some impressive defensive driving display.

 

[Peter]

I want to see F1 become a bit more GP2 levels with overtaking. I don't want it to turn into oodles of overtaking. In GP2, overtaking is a common occurrence at all tracks, even Valencia, while in F1 Valencia only had about 2 overtakes this year.

 

[Akmuq]

There was more overtaking due to the new teams fighting it out each race and various drivers trying unique tyre strategies which meant they had to fight back to the front on fresh tyres versus worn tyres.
But there were still many, many scenarios where we had faster cars catching slower cars and being unable to pass. We also had title contenders catching each other up only to be stuck losing grip in the corners and being unable to make any attack on their opponent.
Its not like Petrov was driving clever lines to block Alonso this year, he simply drove the racing line at Abu Dhabi and Turkey and Alonso simply couldn't put his car alongside anywhere on the track without diving on the brakes in an insane lunge. Not to discredit Petrov's mostly mistake-free drives at those races, but it wasn't some impressive defensive driving display.

You're right. But those new adjustable rear wings is just going to make overtaking a shambles. I'm not sure where I heard this but I think the give you an extra 15 km/h. Not only will the overtaking be not hard worked for but teams could also cheat.
For instance team Mercedes are running p1 and 2 seperated by half a second, Rosberg overtakes Schumacher, the next lap Schumacher overtakes Rosberg. They could go miles ahead of everyone else because you get so much speed that getting tangled up by the end up the straight isn't a problem.

 

[Dotini]

But those new adjustable rear wings is just going to make overtaking a shambles. I'm not sure where I heard this but I think the give you an extra 15 km/h. Not only will the overtaking be not hard worked for but teams could also cheat.
For instance team Mercedes are running p1 and 2 seperated by half a second, Rosberg overtakes Schumacher, the next lap Schumacher overtakes Rosberg. They could go miles ahead of everyone else because you get so much speed that getting tangled up by the end up the straight isn't a problem.

Oh, this is tricky! No team orders, and leapfrogging permitted? Surely Todt and the FIA must address this.

 

[Ardius]

You're right. But those new adjustable rear wings is just going to make overtaking a shambles. I'm not sure where I heard this but I think the give you an extra 15 km/h. Not only will the overtaking be not hard worked for but teams could also cheat.
For instance team Mercedes are running p1 and 2 seperated by half a second, Rosberg overtakes Schumacher, the next lap Schumacher overtakes Rosberg. They could go miles ahead of everyone else because you get so much speed that getting tangled up by the end up the straight isn't a problem.

Oh, this is tricky! No team orders, and leapfrogging permitted? Surely Todt and the FIA must address this.

Yup, I agree that the 2011 rules are silly, or at least this "must be within a certain distance and not allowed to defend to use" rule is. 2013 rules are more like it (they don't appear to use this rear wing device, as the whole 2013 car concept would make it unecessary).

 

[AlexGTV]

A thing I don't like about F1 is the, in my opinion, great involvement of the teams to the race strategy. What if the driver had the last word as to the timing of the pit stop and the teams were there just for an advice?

 

[Alex.]

The Q-tires were good for only one flying lap. He went for it, as he must. He could not afford to back out. If qualifying had been on race tires, he could have backed out and gone for his time on another lap.

He was supposed to be on his way back to the pits but Gilles being Gilles after the Imola incident didn't fancy the idea of sitting behind his team-mate on the grid. The quali tyres were already scrubbed.

 

[Ardius]

A thing I don't like about F1 is the, in my opinion, great involvement of the teams to the race strategy. What if the driver had the last word as to the timing of the pit stop and the teams were there just for an advice?

Hmm, you can't escape the involvement of the team in F1...its a team sport after all. I kind of agree though that it would be a bit more interesting if teams weren't continually telling the driver what to do like the old days.
A difficult thing to police though, we already do have the drivers deciding pit stops from time to time (famously Button this year). How would be able to tell from a driver who is dictating pit stops to one who is simply pretending? Wouldn't the teams simply then make their strategy orders into questions for the driver to answer yes to? How could you prove it wasn't the driver decision then?

Eh, its kind of fun to see the teams fudge their strategies though, its provided some of the best qualifying sessions and races over the years. E.g. Monza 2008, Malaysia 2010, etc.

At the end of the day, the driver is still employed by the team and the team also employ some clever people to work out strategies so the driver doesn't need to. All about effeciency as a team.

 

[AlexGTV]

At the end of the day, the driver is still employed by the team and the team also employ some clever people to work out strategies so the driver doesn't need to. All about effeciency as a team.

You are right. It must be more efficient that way. But it seems is also less entertaining for us at the end of the day, haha.

 

[Akmuq]

If you don't have the team to tell you when it's a good idea to pit, you're in trouble. Obviously the driver should have a say as well, but if you look at Abu Dhabi 2010 where Webber and Alonso got themselves in trouble but Vettel, Hamilton and Button made good calls. I'd say that some drivers don't have the guts to do it.

 

[///M=Power]

Well, they're talking about an increase to 15" or even 18" wheels. Personally, I reckon they should go in for steel brakes while they're at it.

The cars will look ridiculous with wheels this big.

 

[Owen.C93]

The cars will look ridiculous with wheels this big.

Well this looks okay ish

Check this post out for a quick comparison. I think 15" will look good.

http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=126341&view=findpost&p=4311399