2014 engines: inline-fours out, turbo-charged V6 engines in

[Akmuq]

Just curious, are diseasels allowed in F1?

Don't think so.

 

[Ardius]

Just curious, are diseasels allowed in F1?

Nope, current engine regulations demand a 3.0 litre V8 normally aspirated petrol engine.
I would hate to see F1 diesels, pretty undramatic sound. Its not so bad for LMP cars, as they are menacing. But F1 cars should always shriek, be it V12 or rev-limited inline-4s.

 

[niky]

It would be interesting to see mixed engines in F1, but on even terms... even displacement... same air restrictors... etcetera... They went overboard with LMPs with the lax rule-set diesels have to follow compared to gasoline motors... something they'll have to correct as common-rail diesel technology pushes the diesel performance envelope ever-closer to gasoline...

 

[albteman015]

This does not make sense to me. Why do people think that races were so much more exciting back then and so boring now. In terms of number of overtaking, These past couple of seasons have been phenomenal. My father was a huge racing fan growing up and i Have a few tapes somewhere in my basement that contain footage of some old F1 races. Yea the actual driving was more exciting but the number of overtaking maneuvers was never really that much compared to now.

It wasn't just the fact that cars did not have a lower amount of downforce but they were not as balanced as the cars are today. We should all know that a car's weight balance dictates the way that car handles. Now days, he weight distribution and the setups are so well though out that the only time an f1 car will misbehave is because of driver error. If he gets on the throttle too early: oversteer. If he goes to fast into a corner: understeer. They seem to be neutral. Now obviously they aren't completely perfect but they are very close. Old F1 had obvious bias to them. Some oversteered some understeered.

Downforce does not affect a car's handling. In only affects the amount of grip it has. More in the rear and the front will break first and more in the front and the rear will break first etc. The real problem is how good the teams have gotten at utilizing said grip. Even with the limitations they have, F1 engineers still manage to find the balance to a car. Thats why we don't see as much experimentation. And that is what should be fixed. You can change the engine rules, tire rules ,aero rules all you want but as long as the teams can find a balance to their machines they will be fast cars and we will not have that tail out seemingly wreck-less driving we used to see. We must open the rules some more so they can start doing wild things like fan cars and six wheeled car again!

 

[Peter]

How about some sort of better alternative? Rotary engines? Or would that scare off everyone except Mazda?

 

[IceMan PJN]

Nope, current engine regulations demand a 3.0 litre V8 normally aspirated petrol engine.

You're almost right. Current F1 cars are 2.4 liter, not 3.0.

 

[Ardius]

Oh yeah woops. I forgot it went down from the 3.0 V10s.

 

[YellowG1]

This does not make sense to me. Why do people think that races were so much more exciting back then and so boring now. In terms of number of overtaking, These past couple of seasons have been phenomenal. My father was a huge racing fan growing up and i Have a few tapes somewhere in my basement that contain footage of some old F1 races. Yea the actual driving was more exciting but the number of overtaking maneuvers was never really that much compared to now.

It wasn't just the fact that cars did not have a lower amount of downforce but they were not as balanced as the cars are today. We should all know that a car's weight balance dictates the way that car handles. Now days, he weight distribution and the setups are so well though out that the only time an f1 car will misbehave is because of driver error. If he gets on the throttle too early: oversteer. If he goes to fast into a corner: understeer. They seem to be neutral. Now obviously they aren't completely perfect but they are very close. Old F1 had obvious bias to them. Some oversteered some understeered.

Downforce does not affect a car's handling. In only affects the amount of grip it has. More in the rear and the front will break first and more in the front and the rear will break first etc. The real problem is how good the teams have gotten at utilizing said grip. Even with the limitations they have, F1 engineers still manage to find the balance to a car. Thats why we don't see as much experimentation. And that is what should be fixed. You can change the engine rules, tire rules ,aero rules all you want but as long as the teams can find a balance to their machines they will be fast cars and we will not have that tail out seemingly wreck-less driving we used to see. We must open the rules some more so they can start doing wild things like fan cars and six wheeled car again!

Certainly the past 3-4 seasons have been the most exciting I've ever seen (particularly 2008 ) even if Button walked away with the championship in 2009.

It'll never happen but an easy way to increase overtaking? Get rid of the blue flags; make the leader pass the backmarker honestly, rather than having the backmarker move over). Another easy fix: make the soft tires VERY soft; kind of crazy that RBR could make an ostensibly "soft" tire last about 50 laps. I think we'll also see more passing now that the double diffuser goes away for next year.

And I will say the whole sustainability thing needs to just go away. In terms of enviro impact, flying the teams all around the world in 747s has a much greater impact than 20 cars driving around for an hour and a half. 👎

 

[Joker-GTBR]

So F1 will really go to the 1.6 inline-4? Good thing Renault isn't managed by the Brazilian branch, they would put the cliche 1.6-16v-110hp engine in their cars

 

[LordJWC]

Another easy fix: make the soft tires VERY soft; kind of crazy that RBR could make an ostensibly "soft" tire last about 50 laps. I think we'll also see more passing now that the double diffuser goes away for next year.

👍

And I will say the whole sustainability thing needs to just go away. In terms of enviro impact, flying the teams all around the world in 747s has a much greater impact than 20 cars driving around for an hour and a half. 👎

👍

I DO see the reasoning for most of the changes, but still . . .!

 

[Furinkazen]

As mentioned in Autosport this week, won't 4 cylinder engines mean the loss of the sonic whine of F1 cars?

 

[rampageturke]

As mentioned in Autosport this week, won't 4 cylinder engines mean the loss of the sonic whine of F1 cars?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UUq3wkPkqo

1.5L V6 at 11k RPM max turbo charged

 

[RTSolvalou]

Was just reading an article hinting that some Japanese brands may enter F1 in some capacity in/for 2013 or 14, Honda was the only name specifically mentioned though, I think it would be fab to see them join with Williams again.

 

[Northstar]

Was just reading an article hinting that some Japanese brands may enter F1 in some capacity in/for 2013 or 14, Honda was the only name specifically mentioned though, I think it would be fab to see them join with Williams again.

Link?

I personally can't see Honda or Toyota coming back and it wouldn't make any sense for Nissan to join. Subaru probably would go back into WRC before even thinking of F1.

Mazda I guess would be a realistic choice, although they normally stick to sport car racing.

 

[RTSolvalou]

Subaru would be odd for formula 1, but they may be enticed by the capability to apply their boxer 4 configuration knowledge and hardware to get a technical edge, which only porsche are likely to attempt if they join.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=396542&FS=F1

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It wouldn't be the first time Subaru have been involved in Formula 1 ... but I don't think they'll do it.

 

[Louie_Schumii]

How about some sort of better alternative? Rotary engines? Or would that scare off everyone except Mazda?

I think I've said it before in one of the threads in this forum but I think this; along with a handful of other powertrain alternatives; are a great idea. I mean how much more performance (and/or economy) can we actually squeeze out of a cylinder based petrol engine?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

More and more details of 2013 and beyond are starting to emerge: the BBC has run a story with details of new design regulations.

The most significant changes would be the following:
- Much smaller front and rear wings
- A far greater proportion of the total downforce of the cars will be created by the underfloor, compared to the wings
- A major reduction in the amount of total downforce created by the car
- To achieve this, the underfloor of the cars will be shaped along its length to generate downforce for the first time since the 1982 season - currently cars have bottoms that are flat between the wheels
- The average proportion of a lap that a driver is able to spend on full throttle to be cut from 70% in 2010 to 50% in 2013
- Tyres will remain large and chunky to ensure cornering speeds remain high

The draft of the rules is currently being sent to the FIA for review. Then the Technical Working Group will sign off on them in January and they'll be approve for 2013.

 

[Northstar]

I understand shrinking the front spoiler, but the rear spoiler is small enough as is.

Good to hear they are cutting back the downforce though.

 

[Alex.]

I literally dread to think what these cars are going to look like.

 

[Only_in_f1]

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I literally dread to think what these cars are going to look like.

Probably closer to old Indycars - circa 1995, maybe - than anything else. Indycars have been running ground effects for some time now, though only partially and they're heavily moderated. I imagine the cars won't look too different to the way they do now, just with smaller wings.

 

[Ardius]

I literally dread to think what these cars are going to look like.

Well, with KERS loaded in the front wing, and therefore a lower nose plus smaller wings and more ground effects, probably not far from:

 

[prisonermonkeys]

And would anybody reasonably object to that? Sure, it could be a little smoother around the edges, but I don't think it's a problem. Quite the opposite - it could be one of the best things that has ever happened to the sport.

 

[Ardius]

Well, I dare someone to state they think the Williams is not a gorgeous race car. I doubt you will find many people who dislike the early-80s F1 car designs (apart from the coffee table Ferrari). The people who hated the early 2009 looks, are the same ones who said they liked the wide, low profile of the 80s cars.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I don't think it's a gorgeous race car. I think it's a thing of great beauty, but it is not the first car that I would hold up as a shining example of race car design.

 

[Peter]

I don't like that the FIA is trying to make overtaking an easy common thing. If it becomes too easy, it'll be boring and un-impressive. And what's the point of brining KERS? If everyone has it, it's pretty much canceled out. If someone tries to pass me with KERS, i'll use my KERS to counteract them. KERS is pretty pointless.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The FIA didn't come up with this. Rory Byrne and Patrick Head did. Byrne's a Ferrari man (I think he still is) and Head is with Williams. It's not about making overtaking easier, it's about finding a balance between driver skill and engineering. Based on these regulations, the cars will be much more difficult to drive than they currently are. Aerodynamic grip will be slashed.

And KERS is not pointless. For starters, it will be limited to a few seconds per lap. Different drivers will use the KERS system differently. For example, Fernando Alonso uses it coming out of corners. Lewis Hamilton uses it at the end of a lap so that it gets topped up crossing the start finish line and gives him another few seconds of increased speed into the first turn. Eventually, KERS will likely be automatic, powering the car as it goes. It won't be a uestion of pressing a button - the cars will always be using KERS as they go.

 

[RTSolvalou]

The average proportion of a lap that a driver is able to spend on full throttle to be cut from 70% in 2010 to 50% in 2013

And on another site I read that that the general pace of the 2013 cars must be no more than 5 seconds slower than current f1 cars.

Good luck with that, I'll be watching knowing that the drivers aren't going as fast as they could be, yawn.

 

[Ardius]

The average proportion of a lap that a driver is able to spend on full throttle to be cut from 70% in 2010 to 50% in 2013

And on another site I read that that the general pace of the 2013 cars must be no more than 5 seconds slower than current f1 cars.

Good luck with that, I'll be watching knowing that the drivers aren't going as fast as they could be, yawn.

It means the cars will be designed to be harder to drive fast, not that they don't try to drive as fast as possible silly. So in other words, where one corner in 2010 would be flat out, in 2013 it shouldn't be flat out as the driver will find it more difficult....e.g. Eau Rouge. Why would you prefer an easy Eau Rouge over a hard Eau Rouge?