2016 Russian Grand Prix

prisonermonkeys
Show me the proof that Kvyat did it on purpose. And no, your experience as a sim racer does not count as evidence. I just finished Assassin's Creed Unity, but it does not qualify me as an expert on the French Revolution.
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From this:

Crash.jpg


Just look at his wheel, he is pointing it out to Vettel's direction. EVERY motosport fan (and not only drivers and simdrivers) knows that steering while braking increases the chances to lock the tires, which is what he did and the "excuse" he took for ramming Vettel.
Also, if you look the video, you will notice that he was slowing down, but a moment before the crash he regained a bit of speed, compared to Ricciardo and Vettel in front of him, like if he pushed a bit on the accelerator.

For FutureF1, I might agree with you if the first ram was the only one. But after that error, instead of being cautious, he pushed to the limit causing the second and final one. This is a repeated distance error and I can't think that an experienced driver, which had to pass an exam to get the "superlicence" to drive in F1 can't understand which is the moment to risk and which the one to assure get the car to the finish line.
Oh right, I'm sorry, he passed it, so you might be right. One less opponent and he still finished the race.
 
He is turning into the corner. :rolleyes:

Flaren89
There is a difference between "go for a gap" and "as I don't see gap I create myself by ramming other drivers".

Oh another thing, Vettel might have slowed in the left corner, passively causing the second contact, but I have to say to you, unfortunately as you're devending Kvyat, that it was caused by a flat tyre damaged hitting Ricciardo after Kvyat rammed him.
So still, even if a simple "conseguence" of the first hit, even the second hit is 100% Kvyat fault, for causing the tyre damage on Vettel in first contact and not be cautious afterwards.
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As far as I can see nobody is arguing against Kvyat being at fault for both incidents. Most of us are simply saying it was human error on the part of Kvyat, one that all drivers make from time to time. There was no malicious intent.

That is something I meant to mention as well @FutureF1 , the fact this happened with Vettel and Kvyat again was purely coincidence because of their position on the grid. If Kvyat had started 6+ places behind him and steamrollered him from 300ft back then I might listen to suggestions it was on purpose. As it was he just happened to be behind him because of the grid. In fact in the heat of the race I doubt he even knew which Ferrari he was hitting.
 
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Flaren89
Hard to think, as Kvyat had Vettel ALWAYS in front of him while Raikkonen starting in 3rd place, 4 position forward.
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Still more likely than him purposely driving behind and hitting Vettel on purpose. For what reason, because he had a go at him in China? Someone must be able to come up with better motivation than that or that he was "rage quitting" because he knows his seat is at risk.
 
I'm not convinced that his seat is at risk - the consensus after Shanghai was that he was starting to come good and that he just needed some consistency.
 
I'm sorry to interrupt all these seriousness, but Vettel's reaction literally had me :lol: on the floor. It is exactly how I reacted everytime I got punted in the first corner in GT6 or Grid Autosport :P Honestly, it's always good to see the drivers being more human.

They really need to redesign the start of the lap though. It's just one of those complexes that always seem to cause trouble (like Turn 1 at Oscherschleben). Either move the start/finish between Turn 1 & 2, or make Turn 2 less sharp and wider.
 
@LMSCorvetteGT2 & friends.
You guys love internet drama and name calling :) I know you are eagerly waiting this "discipline" to get e-sports status where you can really show the World all your talent but for now, let's just keep it simple, a couple of jokes it's ok but you know at some point you realize that life is short and there's not much time to waste really.

Anyway back to the point, this is mr. Marko praising his favourite russian driver, there you go:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/kvyat-future-in-doubt-after-sochi-‘disaster’/ar-BBsw8Xu

"Let's put it this way," he said. "Kvyat was over-motivated. Braking too late once and hitting another car would be acceptable in front of his home crowd, but this doesn't apply for the second crash."

Have a nice productive Monday to you all.
 
prisonermonkeys
I'm not convinced that his seat is at risk - the consensus after Shanghai was that he was starting to come good and that he just needed some consistency.
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His Shanghai race was good but Ricciardo was on another planet in things he could control, he even ate up most of the gap between them at the end.

Considering they have Verstappen getting better and better and Kyvat looking less and less likely he is at Ricciardos Level, The seat will be at risk.

This is just how Redbull will see it.
 
HKS racer
@LMSCorvetteGT2 & friends.
You guys love internet drama and name calling :) I know you are eagerly waiting this "discipline" to get e-sports status where you can really show the World all your talent but for now, let's just keep it simple, a couple of jokes it's ok but you know at some point you realize that life is short and there's not much time to waste really.

Anyway back to the point, this is mr. Marko praising his favourite russian driver, there you go:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/kvyat-future-in-doubt-after-sochi-‘disaster’/ar-BBsw8Xu

"Let's put it this way," he said. "Kvyat was over-motivated. Braking too late once and hitting another car would be acceptable in front of his home crowd, but this doesn't apply for the second crash."

Have a nice productive Monday to you all.
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So he's saying it was his fault. Which we've all agreed on, have we not? What is your point?
 
HKS racer
You guys love internet drama and name calling :)
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That's interesting, as the first instance I can see of an individual discussing the people making the points instead of discussing the points in this thread seems to be you, yet again.
HKS racer
Samus being Samus, really.
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Given that you've already been banned from participating in one F1 thread for your inability to keep things civil and you're insistent here that a second offence for the same thing is deliberate, I'll not bother with the thread ban this time and just give you 10 warning points.

Sadly you've already got 20 of them.
 
mustafur
Considering they have Verstappen getting better and better and Kyvat looking less and less likely he is at Ricciardos Level, The seat will be at risk.

This is just how Redbull will see it.
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You mean Red Bull, the team that like to have a step between their drivers so that one isn't threatening the other?
 
I've played racing games like GT and now pCARS online for a few years now. I've always been rather baffled at the variety and range various people's interpretations of what racing is and is not - a range that goes from way too aggressive all the way down to way too soft. I always thought there was a pretty clear general understanding of what goes on in racing, and what confuses me is these people who "buy a racing game but don't know the first thing about racing."

After Bahrain T1, China T1, and now Kvyat's incedents in Russia, and hearing the absolutely bonkers explanations and theories by fellow couch racers, it has become abundantly clear to me that the general viewing public's opinions and understanding of what happens on a race track is very confused.

I don't at all mean to say that I have a crystal clear understanding...I dont, and I learn something new with every race I watch. But some of the hindsight theories regarding what Kvyat (or Bottas) should have done are hilarious in the least, and do a lot to shed light on why when participating in an online race where people claim to be "racers" and "know what they're doing" things often turn to chaotic bumper cars.

What I find the most hilarious is all the couch racers who claim to have X amount of "experience," and have all this advice to give to Kvyat....yet in all that X amount of time they've been racing, they've never been caught in a similar situation. I most definitely have been caught out by someone slowing down unexpectedly, which caused me to plow into the back of them (and yes, I was shadowing the brakes, sometimes you just get caught and can't react fast enough). The fact that it happened to Kvyat two times in a row with the same car doesn't really indicate much other than coincidence.


Anyways....

My couch racing advice to Kvyat? Next time, don't bother with the race track. Just take to the runnoff through any T1, gain as many places as you can, and move on. It certainly works for other drivers, and there doesn't seem to be any effort to stop that kind of driving, so go nuts!
 
Flaren89
Just look at his wheel, he is pointing it out to Vettel's direction. EVERY motosport fan (and not only drivers and simdrivers) knows that steering while braking increases the chances to lock the tires, which is what he did and the "excuse" he took for ramming Vettel.
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He's turning the steering wheel to negotiate his way around the corner. That's pretty standard practice for any racing driver.

Your wealth of sim-racing experience* should allow you to understand that a racing driver brakes hard and in a straight line initially, and gradually bleeds off brake pressure when turning towards the apex of a corner. In order to maximise corner speed, they brake right up to the apex, with a minimal delay in reapplying the power. Any time coasting is essentially time wasted. In other words, it's completely normal that Kvyat should still be on the brakes at that point - regardless of other traffic around him.

It's clearly a very fine skill to modulate in Forumla 1, as you see drivers frequently locking up the unloaded inside wheel. It happened countless times in this race weekend alone, and it really isn't a big deal (unless the driver flat-spots the tyre).

As I have said several times already, Kvyat misjudged his braking point by a tiny margin, and unfortunately this meant he was pretty much entirely at fault for the turn two mess. He was right on the limit and left himself nowhere to go. You could maybe put it down to over enthusiasm in his home race, but accusing him of deliberately ramming Vettel is just daft.

*Which by the way, is an odd thing to bring up as something which offers you to a unique perspective among members of a forum dedicated to a sim racing game
 
GTP_Ingram
He's turning the steering wheel to negotiate his way around the corner. That's pretty standard practice for any racing driver.

Your wealth of sim-racing experience* should allow you to understand that a racing driver brakes hard and in a straight line initially, and gradually bleeds off brake pressure when turning towards the apex of a corner. In order to maximise corner speed, they brake right up to the apex, with a minimal delay in reapplying the power. Any time coasting is essentially time wasted. In other words, it's completely normal that Kvyat should still be on the brakes at that point - regardless of other traffic around him.

It's clearly a very fine skill to modulate in Forumla 1, as you see drivers frequently locking up the unloaded inside wheel. It happened countless times in this race weekend alone, and it really isn't a big deal (unless the driver flat-spots the tyre).

As I have said several times already, Kvyat misjudged his braking point by a tiny margin, and unfortunately this meant he was pretty much entirely at fault for the turn two mess. He was right on the limit and left himself nowhere to go. You could maybe put it down to over enthusiasm in his home race, but accusing him of deliberately ramming Vettel is just daft.

*Which by the way, is an odd thing to bring up as something which offers you to a unique perspective among members of a forum dedicated to a sim racing game
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But it has to not been in use in a possible chaotic moment, like the start. Many times we see people locking brakes just before a crash, might be a reason?
 
Flaren89
But it has to not been in use in a possible chaotic moment, like the start. Many times we see people locking brakes just before a crash, might be a reason?
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Yes. If avoiding an accident, it stands to reason that you're going to brake harder. Given Kvyat locked up his inside front wheel, I'm guessing he was trying his best to avoid crashing into Vettel.
 
What happened to Kvyat... perhaps it was a syndrome of the Victory Day coming soon? "Germans shall not pass!"
Plus, this time was on his home ground. :D

46640052_taran.jpg

Much like Petrov crashed into Schumacher in 2011 Korean GP. :sly:
12292.jpg
 
Rage Racer
What happened to Kvyat... perhaps it was a syndrome of the Victory Day coming soon? "Germans shall not pass!"
Plus, this time was on his home ground. :D

46640052_taran.jpg

Much like Petrov crashed into Schumacher in 2011 Korean GP. :sly:
12292.jpg
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Oh my lord I forgot about Petrov being in the Lotus. :odd:
 
Dotini
Perhaps we should anticipate an early replacement of Kvyat by Sainz or Verstappen?
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Why? He's done nothing to really to warrant that. Sure he isn't a Ricciardo but then again Ricciardo is probably the best driver in F1 right now. And he's doing alright against him.

He's made one mistake and everyone seems to think his seat is gone. If this were the Red Bull mentality we would have Jaime Alguesuari as a 4 time champ rather than Vettel.....
 
By reports, the Red Bull management is extremely angered, and has summoned the Russian to a meeting.
 
HKS racer
@LMSCorvetteGT2 & friends.
You guys love internet drama and name calling :) I know you are eagerly waiting this "discipline" to get e-sports status where you can really show the World all your talent but for now, let's just keep it simple, a couple of jokes it's ok but you know at some point you realize that life is short and there's not much time to waste really.

Anyway back to the point, this is mr. Marko praising his favourite russian driver, there you go:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/kvyat-future-in-doubt-after-sochi-‘disaster’/ar-BBsw8Xu

"Let's put it this way," he said. "Kvyat was over-motivated. Braking too late once and hitting another car would be acceptable in front of his home crowd, but this doesn't apply for the second crash."

Have a nice productive Monday to you all.
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never mind he was banned....


Also it's worth noting there was a Toro Rosso, driving around both the slower Red Bull and Ferrari at the moment of the second hit. For anyone that didn't pick that up during the race. It could have played into why Kvyat simply didn't go around Vettel when he was clearly slower.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Also it's worth noting there was a Toro Rosso, driving around both the slower Red Bull and Ferrari at the moment of the second hit. For anyone that didn't pick that up during the race. It could have played into why Kvyat simply didn't go around Vettel when he was clearly slower.
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The Toro Rosso wasn't there yet. He followed Kvyat past his team mate. Only got to have a shot at Kvyat because Danil was hitting Vettel.

vhFoIIx.jpg
 
GTracer38
The Toro Rosso wasn't there yet. He followed Kvyat past his team mate. Only got to have a shot at Kvyat because Danil was hitting Vettel.

vhFoIIx.jpg
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My mistake then, from the onboards they look like they're there or at least enough so that Daniil thought going one way or another would have been bad. Cause I did recall Hamilton being to the left of Vettel and this picture confirms that. I think ultimately Daniil should have just slowed up but he could have been worried about causing a chain reaction himself by getting ran over. In the end if event one didn't happen, event two wouldn't be a discussion so it all comes down to him anyways, despite who hits Vettel a second time.

Hamilton got really lucky that he didn't get hit for a third race running.
 
DC said on the C4 replay that Kvyat locked a wheel in turn one. He's a Redbull man so he's looking for an excuse for Kvyat. That would explain how he hit Vettel the first time As for the second hit - that was Vettel's fault. He admitted to backing out of the throttle on a 100% flat out corner when interviewed during the race. What did any of you expect Kvyat to do what presented with that? Teleport out of the way?
 
React. Vettel didn't suddenly slam on the brakes, he lifted off gradually and slightly, Kvyat had the time and space to react. It's the start of the race, you have to expect not everyone will be full throttle as they would a normal lap.
 
Expecially when you have already damaged his car by a contact of YOUR fault, keep the distance to avoid another and be prepare for any possibilities. But no, he didn't.
 

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