2016 Russian Grand Prix

  • Thread starter Thread starter SVT Cobra GT
  • 465 comments
  • 24,459 views
HKS racer
Ok it was late braking, reckless and pointless late braking but how you explain this: "there will be no mercy for anyone or anything like that. I don't see anything different coming as you reacting by instinct."
Click to expand...

Unless you don't know what mercy means then it's obvious. He'll neither ask nor give quarter. The day he's doing that (team orders aside, boooo), he should hang up his nice racing booties and take up fishing. Until then he's going to approach each race doing the best he can. That wasn't very good today, of course.

I fail to see how you extrapolate that to "I'ma cause a reet smash".
 
Kvyat's driving was poorly judged for sure. Both times Vettel slowed down more than Kvyat thought he would, and both times he was caught out. Both a combination of reading the situation poorly, and then failing to react accordingly. Nothing he did was intentional in terms of trying to hit Vettel on purpose. Anything close to proposing that is lunacy.
 
The second time was probably a little bit more excusable than the first, even if Kvyat had more of an opportunity to avoid contact. Vettel said that he wasn't sure if he had a problem and was trying to do a bit of diagnosis on the car. He was going considerably slower than those around him - the on-board is deceptive because Pérez had a puncture - but weirdly enough stayed on the racing line.
 
Just finished watching the race and I have a question in regards to Kvyat's 2nd hit. Does the red LED on the rear of the car start blinking when the driver hits the brakes or when the car suddenly decelerates regardless of driver input? I thought it was the later
 
Speedracer8218
Just finished watching the race and I have a question in regards to Kvyat's 2nd hit. Does the red LED on the rear of the car start blinking when the driver hits the brakes or when the car suddenly decelerates regardless of driver input? I thought it was the later
Click to expand...

That light has nothing to do with braking. It blinks to show energy system is charging, it also blinks during rain to indicate there is a driver ahead of you since conditions can make for low visibility. But it has nothing to do with being a brake light.

Though I guess you could use the harvesting flash as an indicator to follow with more caution.
 
So it indicates driver has lifted off the throttle?
I remember someone from the NBCSN crew saying that drivers use that light as an indicator that car in front is slowing down
 
Last edited:
Speedracer8218
So it indicates driver has lifted off the throttle?
Click to expand...

No I just gave its only uses. One is to indicate the car is harvesting thus a warning to other drivers that the lead car may be going slower, but has to do with the car not the driver. The car is going to harvest at various times during a lap based on how the recovery system is set up, but this input isn't driver based. As I said the other use is a fog light in the rain.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
No I just gave its only uses. One is to indicate the car is harvesting thus a warning to other drivers that the lead car may be going slower, but has to do with the car not the driver. The car is going to harvest at various times during a lap based on how the recovery system is set up, but this input isn't driver based. As I said the other use is a fog light in the rain.
Click to expand...

Got it, thanks for clarifying 👍
 
One interesting little story that came up before the race: the possibility of redesigning Turn 2 for next year's race as a means of preventing driver infractions.

This got me thinking - what if every circuit had a designated "penalty lane" that drivers could be sent through if it was decided that they had gained an advantage from going off the circuit? It would have to happen within a lap, and if rejoining is an issue, the penalty lane could be marked with a bright yellow line to separate it from the rest of the circuit.
 
prisonermonkeys
One interesting little story that came up before the race: the possibility of redesigning Turn 2 for next year's race as a means of preventing driver infractions.

This got me thinking - what if every circuit had a designated "penalty lane" that drivers could be sent through if it was decided that they had gained an advantage from going off the circuit? It would have to happen within a lap, and if rejoining is an issue, the penalty lane could be marked with a bright yellow line to separate it from the rest of the circuit.
Click to expand...

Okay and would that mean they drive that lane for the remainder or a lap.
 
I caught this race at 5am and other than the 1st lap chaos, there wasn't much there to keep me awake. My takeaways:

- If Sochi disappeared from the F1 schedule, I would lament the loss as much as Valencia's. No chance of an alternate tire strategy and passing was a struggle. I can't see how racing is going to get any better than what we saw today.
- I was a little surprised how well Rosberg got off the line. I was certain with the long straight toward T1 that he'd get jumped by someone.

- Regarding Kvyat and Vettel, the initial hit doesn't look like anything more than the typical first lap first turn clumsiness that we've seen repeatedly over the years. The second one is mystifying because the approach rate was quite sudden. To some extent, whoever was inside of Vettel must have compromised his optimal speed but I don't think that fully explains it. To have Kvyat deliberately try to hit Vettel makes no sense either because I doubt he'd risk taking himself out at his home grand prix. Best guess is that Kyvat had a great entry while Vettel had a poor one, partly to the aforementioned car on his inside coupled with damage that compromised his handling.

- If Hamilton had such trouble trying to pass Bottas, I doubt he would've had anything for Rosberg had he'd been able to close the gap. I do find it quite disappointing that we've been denied the Hamilton/Rosberg battle so far this season. At this rate, I'll have to start up the "What bad fortune will strike Hamilton/Rosberg's competition this week" game again.

- I was surprised there were teams that tried using the Medium tires. Can we somehow make an Tissue Soft tire for this place?

- Great to see Alonso and Button score points. A little early to celebrate but I think it's safe to say they can now focus on getting consistent results.

- I must have been really sleepy because I don't know how Magnussen ended up 7th.

- Another good day for Grosjean although it looked like he was holding up the guys behind him. Fortunately, passing was a challenge.
 
outlaw4rc
Can we somehow make an Tissue Soft tire for this place?
Click to expand...
There is an ultrasoft tyre that is due to make its first appearance later in the year. Monaco, I think. Pirelli chose not to bring it to Russia because the race was brought forward from October to April-May, which produced warmer temperatures. With the phenomenal loads going through the tyres, particularly in Turn 3, and no data on how the higher temperatures would affect the tyres, Pirelli chose not to bring them this time.

outlaw4rc
No chance of an alternate tire strategy and passing was a struggle.
Click to expand...
I would not expect the racing in Australia, Bahrain and China to be the standard that we can expect.
 
Regarding Vettel v Mald.... Erm Kvyat, I have to say a thing:
I'm a simracing driver, competing in a WEC-IMSA hybrid endurance championship, and gonna try to compete in Simracing.org's 24h Le Mans aswell (both rFactor 2). But still, in chaotic or even just by standing behind another car, I usually keep the distance from the car in front of me and act depending on what driver(s) in front of me is(are) doing, and this made me do 0 rams in the 2 + 2 + 3 1/2 + 9 + 2 + 2 hours I raced so far. And trust me, it's quite hard when you're in a GTE-AM and get your line closed in last moment (1 meter before braking point) by a lapping LMP1/2 which then also cuts you of the aerodynamic drag. This sitting behind a 2D monitor with a low-precision pedal set (DFGT).
Now, I can't understand why a PROFESSIONAL and REAL driver which have a STEREOSCOPIC vision, YEARS of experience and REAL pedals can misjudge not 1 but 2 times in 2 successive corners braking point and position of the other cars. First one was a misjudge on braking point? Read above what I said, a real driver should know how to keep distance to be safe, as there was really NO spot for him to try an attack, so his job was just to be safe and he didn't. About the second one, I think it was because he didn't think about the chance of a loss of downforce middle-corner and this gave him a boost in speed aswell losing the front, which coupled with Vettel's slight brake to keep distance itself to a damaged car in front of him, caused the crash. But again, an experienced driver, how the **** can't remember that staying behind another car like that could cause a loss of grip from failing downforce? Look what happened in successive battles, if a car stay behind another there it went COMPLETELY out of the track. No brain on Kvyat head?
 
Last edited:
Flaren89
But again, an experienced driver, how the **** can't remember that staying behind another car like that could cause a loss of grip from failing downforce?
Click to expand...
I don't know - how can a self-described sim racing driver forget that when you're racing on the opening lap, you're surrounded by cars? Your points might have merit if they were the only two cars on track.
 
prisonermonkeys
I don't know - how can a self-described sim racing driver forget that when you're racing on the opening lap, you're surrounded by cars? Your points might have merit if they were the only two cars on track.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but a driver's job is to watch what happens in front and left-right of him. What happens behind is a matter of the driver behind watching what you are doing in front of him. He just didn't keep an eye on what happened in front of him and caused 2 crashes.
 
Flaren89
Maybe, but a driver's job is to watch what happens in front and left-right of him. What happens behind is a matter of the driver behind watching what you are doing in front of him. He just didn't keep an eye on what happened in front of him and caused 2 crashes.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind Kvyat was under a lot of pressure. It's his home race, the President is in attendance, and his boss has publicly said that he is at risk of losing his job. He was expected to get a big result, and on a track where overtaking is notoriously difficult that means you have to make up spots at the start. I'm not defending him, those were 2 clumsy mistakes I would expect from a rookie F3 driver, not someone in a top F1 team. But comparing his incidents to your sim racing, where there's no sponsors expecting results, no pressure from young stars trying to take your seat, and no freaking President of your county watching you, is laughable.
 
Actually, even if few, there are sponsors expectations, even in simracing...
Even worse, I have to say. You are in home race, the President is in attendance, and your boss has publicly said that you are at risk of losing your job.... YOU KEEP 🤬 DISTANCES AND DON'T RAM THE FIRST GUY YOU FIND IN FRONT OF YOU DESTROYING BOTH RACES. What is the result? You 🤬 up your home race, you proved to your President that you're idiot and you now 99% sure gonna lose your job.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
prisonermonkeys
Please stop insinuating that he did it deliberately simply because you think that you could have done a better job based on your experience of video games.
Click to expand...
1 could be acceptable... But 2?
- You already did an error, avoid to do another, for God sake;
- You probably damaged the opponent's car, so keep an eye and distance for any chance of he losing control;
- You probably also damaged your own car, so keep EVEN MORE distance considering you might have some sort of failure, like broken suspension, brake or everything else.
But what he do? Pushes the car to the limit, gets trapped into the draft, lose downforce and smashes A SECOND TIME into Vettel, ending his race. This might be not deliberately done, but a professional driver should demonstrate to have a brain, and in this case he didn't, he actually acted like a rookie F3 driver as aarror said, or a pub-server simdriver.
 
Flaren89
Regarding Vettel v Mald.... Erm Kvyat, I have to say a thing:
I'm a simracing driver, competing in a WEC-IMSA hybrid endurance championship, and gonna try to compete in Simracing.org's 24h Le Mans aswell (both rFactor 2). But still, in chaotic or even just by standing behind another car, I usually keep the distance from the car in front of me and act depending on what driver(s) in front of me is(are) doing, and this made me do 0 rams in the 2 + 2 + 3 1/2 + 9 + 2 + 2 hours I raced so far. And trust me, it's quite hard when you're in a GTE-AM and get your line closed in last moment (1 meter before braking point) by a lapping LMP1/2 which then also cuts you of the aerodynamic drag. This sitting behind a 2D monitor with a low-precision pedal set (DFGT).
Now, I can't understand why a PROFESSIONAL and REAL driver which have a STEREOSCOPIC vision, YEARS of experience and REAL pedals can misjudge not 1 but 2 times in 2 successive corners braking point and position of the other cars. First one was a misjudge on braking point? Read above what I said, a real driver should know how to keep distance to be safe, as there was really NO spot for him to try an attack, so his job was just to be safe and he didn't. About the second one, I think it was because he didn't think about the chance of a loss of downforce middle-corner and this gave him a boost in speed aswell losing the front, which coupled with Vettel's slight brake to keep distance itself to a damaged car in front of him, caused the crash. But again, an experienced driver, how the **** can't remember that staying behind another car like that could cause a loss of grip from failing downforce? Look what happened in successive battles, if a car stay behind another there it went COMPLETELY out of the track. No brain on Kvyat head?
Click to expand...

Your sim experiences have what to do with what happened or didn't happen?

Not really comparable, as has been explained. As others have said the second hit seems to be more of Vettel slowing down far too much in a faster corner to self assess the first hit. I don't think it is Seb's fault, but it was a bit to ambitious a task when on the racing line, and others still going quite fast trying to dodge cars coming back on to the track or get through the carnage altogether behind him. He could have easily been hit by someone else that wasn't Kvyat just due to how he slowed up so much.
 
Flaren89
Actually, even if few, there are sponsors expectations, even in simracing...
Even worse, I have to say. You are in home race, the President is in attendance, and your boss has publicly said that you are at risk of losing your job.... YOU KEEP 🤬 DISTANCES AND DON'T RAM THE FIRST GUY YOU FIND IN FRONT OF YOU DESTROYING BOTH RACES. What is the result? You 🤬 up your home race, you proved to your President that you're idiot and you now 99% sure gonna lose your job.
Click to expand...
In sim racing you're sat in your house, not moving, watching a TV screen playing a game that is not an exact simulation of real life vehicle physics. They are not comparable at all. By all means comment on the race but bringing up your sim racing 'experience' is just making you look foolish.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The starts of all the F1 races this year have resembled BTCC or Public Lobby's just due to the general chaos and lack of spacial awareness by drivers, usually a different one each race.

Obviously, its Spain next, so absolutely nothing will happen, both in turn 1 and the rest of the race.
 
I believe an F1 driver should be on the limit all the time. You don't become world champion by holding back. You go for passes. Even Senna, regarded as one of the best of all time, said if you don't go for a gap, you're no longer a racing driver.
 
There is a difference between "go for a gap" and "as I don't see gap I create myself by ramming other drivers".

Oh another thing, Vettel might have slowed in the left corner, passively causing the second contact, but I have to say to you, unfortunately as you're devending Kvyat, that it was caused by a flat tyre damaged hitting Ricciardo after Kvyat rammed him.
So still, even if a simple "conseguence" of the first hit, even the second hit is 100% Kvyat fault, for causing the tyre damage on Vettel in first contact and not be cautious afterwards.
 
Flaren89
There is a difference between "go for a gap" and "as I don't see gap I create myself by ramming other drivers".
Click to expand...
Show me the proof that Kvyat did it on purpose. And no, your experience as a sim racer does not count as evidence. I just finished Assassin's Creed Unity, but it does not qualify me as an expert on the French Revolution.
 
Oh no I completely agree the incident was his fault. But you also need to remember that he's one of the youngest drivers on the grid still. They are a lot more eager than the older drivers. Personally I'm willing to let it slide. I get it if you're one of those people who thinks F1 drivers need to be 30 to succeed. He's a good driver that made a mistake. Pretty much every driver has made similar mistakes.

Also funny how I haven't seen anyone say "coincidence" yet. You realize they do exist right?(apologies if you have, I just haven't seen it)
 

Latest Posts

Back