2017 Virgin Australia Supercars Championship - Results and TalkTouring Cars 

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prisonermonkeys
The whole thing seems completely unnecessary to me.
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Seems that way, but look at the historic touring car races. This is almost like that(Sure, just have a championship round at night. They finally get a points round at Albert Park, after 20+ years and now, want to do a non-c'hip event). Showcasing the cars in their element. That's what we want. More Supercars events all season.

I take as a local event, like what the Super Test should have been. Test and some impromptu racing- would make a better start to the year, actually.

On the flip side, what's it all for? Cars get banged up with no reward at the end of the day. How much money is spent all up?

I'm glad Tander spoke in it. A driver's view adds weight to the idea. Any chance for them to get in their cars is good.
 
prisonermonkeys
Then run more championship rounds. If they really want a non-championship race, possibly involving a combined Supercars and Super2 grid, then run it before or after a main event.
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I feel some of us here can agree about having wanted to see S2 run together with Supercars. Bathurst can run 50+ cars easily. That should always be the two tiers in the biggest day of the year. Both racing for points towards their respective championships.

I'd say the one thing missing, are the one make races. Put all Supercars/S2 drivers in 370Zs or Clios or 1-Series BMWs or Radicals, whatever. Then, hop in their own cars and put on a show.
 
05XR8
I feel some of us here can agree about having wanted to see S2 run together with Supercars. Bathurst can run 50+ cars easily. That should always be the two tiers in the biggest day of the year. Both racing for points towards their respective championships.

I'd say the one thing missing, are the one make races. Put all Supercars/S2 drivers in 370Zs or Clios or 1-Series BMWs or Radicals, whatever. Then, hop in their own cars and put on a show.
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As much as I'd love to see the S2 guys join in at Bathurst, I see two potential problems with an 'all in'.

Most of the top S2 guys end up with a main game co-drive so, what happens to their cars?
Top level cars sitting idle would be filled by cashed-up, not so top flight drivers.

Result: The main race on the calendar with a diverse range of talent & the potential for championship changing consequences.
Think Matt Neal in the Paul Morris' Big Kev Commodore in 2000.

As for the one make suggestion, I'm old enough to remember when the pros raced Nissan Pulsar ET turbo hatchbacks against each other.
I missed the Alfa Romeo ProAm days in little Alfasuds but, they were edge of the seat races from what I've heard/read.
The biggest problem I see would be, opposition from manufacturers seeing their stars in someone else's cars.
 
Pete05
As much as I'd love to see the S2 guys join in at Bathurst, I see two potential problems with an 'all in'.

Most of the top S2 guys end up with a main game co-drive so, what happens to their cars?
Top level cars sitting idle would be filled by cashed-up, not so top flight drivers.

Result: The main race on the calendar with a diverse range of talent & the potential for championship changing consequences.
Think Matt Neal in the Paul Morris' Big Kev Commodore in 2000.

As for the one make suggestion, I'm old enough to remember when the pros raced Nissan Pulsar ET turbo hatchbacks against each other.
I missed the Alfa Romeo ProAm days in little Alfasuds but, they were edge of the seat races from what I've heard/read.
The biggest problem I see would be, opposition from manufacturers seeing their stars in someone else's cars.
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The silly thing VASC did, was to make Bathurst S2 race non-points. They want cars to participate in the main race, but might as well have the normal S2 drivers in their own cars, like in the regular Wildcard races. it still helps S2 drivers take in the main game process, adds points, gets S2 teams to pair their drivers with more talent(ex-main game drivers, internationals- imagine Buncombe with Lebrocq), makes main game drivers search for someone else not in S2(bye bye Whincup & PD). Opens up those co-driver seats.

As for a one make, I get that, no doubt. They could use Aussie Racing Cars, X-Bows, Karts, Porsche Cup cars, Mazda 3s. Anything to put on a show in even machinery. This goes for the proposed Sydney event. Any type of car for the stars to have fun in.
 
05XR8
The silly thing VASC did, was to make Bathurst S2 race non-points. They want cars to participate in the main race, but might as well have the normal S2 drivers in their own cars, like in the regular Wildcard races. it still helps S2 drivers take in the main game process, adds points, gets S2 teams to pair their drivers with more talent(ex-main game drivers, internationals- imagine Buncombe with Lebrocq), makes main game drivers search for someone else not in S2(bye bye Whincup & PD). Opens up those co-driver seats.

As for a one make, I get that, no doubt. They could use Aussie Racing Cars, X-Bows, Karts, Porsche Cup cars, Mazda 3s. Anything to put on a show in even machinery. This goes for the proposed Sydney event. Any type of car for the stars to have fun in.
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If they used Aussie Racing Cars, they could all race replicas of their own cars that looked like they'd been washed with hot water :lol:
 
I don't mind the idea if it's done well.

I'm thinking a day-night event featuring a finals format like what you see in Rallycross, where there is a big cash prize on hand for both the team and driver. Invite the top 4 Super2 drivers, according to championship standings, so there is an even field of 30 cars and then split them into fields for heats and Finals.

The circuit being used would be the Sydney Motorsport Park North circuit. The one where the usual turn 4 connects with the usual turn 8 hairpin.

The day would go as this.
  • Start the day in the afternoon with a 30 minute Practice/Qualifying session
  • Once that session is over, the 30 cars are split into 3 groups of 10 cars at random
  • Each group of ten then have a 10 lap heat, with the grid positions based on lap times from the first session.
  • The winner from each race go automatically through to the final.
  • Drivers that finish in positions 2-6 and then moved to the semi finals, with a fan favourite chosen from the eliminated drivers also put through to the semi finals making 16 drivers.
  • The 16 drivers then have a single lap qualy session, and are then split into two groups of 8, with grid positions going by single lap times.
  • Two 15 lap semi finals take place with the top 4 cars in each race moving to the final.
  • With 11 drivers set for the final, a single lap qualy is made to set grid positions, with the slowest car eliminated, making an even 10 car finale.
  • Final race being a 20 lap sprint with a single pit stop, with the winner taking out the whole thing.
I would have the event start start late in the afternoon-early evening, with the final being around prime time (8:30ish). Would have the whole event live on Fox, with the Semis and Finals on Channel 10 in a prime time TV slot with allocated time being about 7-9:30. Have the event be on a Sunday night to hopefully avoid Saturday night Football clashes, and promote the absolute heck out of it, as much as Big Bash gets, make it really seem like a must see event. To entice the drivers and teams to really make a proper effort, have a large money prize for both the team and driver, something larger than ever seen before in the series.

If they could make the event have a real special 'all star' event feel to it, I think it could really work. If they add a bit more fun to it as well, they could attract a more causal crowd and viewership as well.
 
VASC are wasting their time with Super5000. Why not invest in MARC Cars? Any engine and body. This way, a driver can go from karts to GT86 to MARC V8/X-aspiration to S2 to VASC.
 
05XR8
VASC are wasting their time with Super5000. Why not invest in MARC Cars? Any engine and body. This way, a driver can go from karts to GT86 to MARC V8/X-aspiration to S2 to VASC.
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Super5000 being compared with MARC doesn't make any sense. Super5000 isn't being used as a stepping stone, it's more of a novelty series for the fans, and there doesn't really need to to be another stepping stone between the 86s and S2 because that's what the Kumho Series is already for. Adding another development series is just going to muddy the waters, and frankly, we don't really have enough decent drivers to be able to fill so many series. It would just end up being full of old blokes with too much money and not enough skill.
 
LumpiestFish
Super5000 being compared with MARC doesn't make any sense. Super5000 isn't being used as a stepping stone, it's more of a novelty series for the fans, and there doesn't really need to to be another stepping stone between the 86s and S2 because that's what the Kumho Series is already for. Adding another development series is just going to muddy the waters, and frankly, we don't really have enough decent drivers to be able to fill so many series. It would just end up being full of old blokes with too much money and not enough skill.
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We still have quite enough Supercars drivers with no ride. Guys like Heimgartner, Alex Davison(bare with me now), Ant Pedersen, Chris Pitcher, Steven Johnson, Aaren Russell. Money, sponsorship, teams, RECs. Much depends on those factors, I get that. Also those feeder series are in much older cars, bar S2.

S5000 to be run by a tin top category? For nostalgia's sake? Seems like wasted money when they are trying to get manufacturers, tracks, events and Super Ute's(fail) to the VASC show.

F4 seems like a waste, when there is nowhere else to go in open wheelers. Heck, TCM is another series that could benefit a driver wanting to come up in Supercars.

How many drivers are going to run in S5000?
 
Litening1
Adam Garwood? He is like 18 or 19
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I'm not singling out any driver in or for TCM. Just part of making my point. Those are high hp cars with no aero, skinny tyres, close racing. Appearantly, age doesn't matter. There's also a 16yo in the main game.
 
As much as I want to see a nostalgic Formula 5000 with low aero, fat rubber & therefore more mechanical grip than aero, the way in which Supercars are suddenly interested in this following the hard yards done by Chris Lambden, leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.
Sure Supercars want to find a new home for the surplus 5.0 litre V8s but, I'm sure I'm not alone in asking two questions.

1. Why didn't they approach Lambden & support his idea & his proposal?

2. Who is going to race these cars?
 
Pete05
the way in which Supercars are suddenly interested in this following the hard yards done by Chris Lambden, leaves a very bad taste in my mouth
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How do we know that Supercars only did it to shaft Lambden? After all, Lambden needed engines. There were only ever going to be a handful of places he could get them, and fewer still with a plentiful supply. Supercars was always going to be his best option. For all we know, Lambden approached Supercars before deciding to go his own way. Would we be assuming that VESA were trying to undermine Lambden if they had announced their series first? After all, Lambden announced the series as Formula Thunder 5000. Why the "Thunder"? Why not Formula 5000? Supercars then announced that they were making Formula 5000, which suggests to me that they registered the name first.
 
prisonermonkeys
How do we know that Supercars only did it to shaft Lambden? After all, Lambden needed engines. There were only ever going to be a handful of places he could get them, and fewer still with a plentiful supply. Supercars was always going to be his best option. For all we know, Lambden approached Supercars before deciding to go his own way. Would we be assuming that VESA were trying to undermine Lambden if they had announced their series first? After all, Lambden announced the series as Formula Thunder 5000. Why the "Thunder"? Why not Formula 5000? Supercars then announced that they were making Formula 5000, which suggests to me that they registered the name first.
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I'm not saying Supercars sole intention is to "shaft" Lambden. I (and a lot of others) just refuse to believe Supercars haven't seen the general enthusiasm for Lambden's concept and decided they want a piece.

Lambden does NOT need engines. He has already stated they will be using the same Ford 5.0 as the MARC cars.

If Lambden had approached Supercars & then decided to go his own way, if Supercars had any intention whatsoever of running with the idea, I suspect we would've heard loud shouting from Supercars HQ.

Here's the thing. VESA didn't announce their Series first. Lambden did.
Chris said at the launch that he wanted to differentiate from the original F5000 by 'inserting' the Thunder tag.

If, as you suspect, Supercars registered the Formula 5000 name first, I have no doubt at all that Lambden would've had legal papers delivered to him courtesy of
VESA legal reps.
No one could convince me of otherwise.
 
It's why i cant see how Supercars are going to make money back on this.
prisonermonkeys
It makes it easier to go to Europe and compete in other Formula 4 series.
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I mean here. Actually, I think there is another formula(F3000?) series just started this year. If that is going on, I may have to rethink my argument about F4.
 
05XR8
It's why i cant see how Supercars are going to make money back on this.
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They've got a better chance than Lambden, since he's envisioning Formula Thunder 5000 as a summer series. Supercars could at least run Formula 5000 on the regular support bill.
 
from May 16:

https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/motorsport/1705/supercars-5000-open-wheelers-set-to-race-in-2018
We’ve learned that the Super 5000 prototype has been tested privately in the hands of Alex Davison, Lee Holdsworth and most recently Garth Tander, a PAYCE-backed driver.



With Supercars investing heavily in Simona de Silvestro it’s not surprising to hear that the Swiss is also earmarked to test the 5000 prototype. Maybe even race it.

...but with an all-new modern carbon fibre chassis and using the 650-horsepower V8 engines already used in Supercars racing, the concept was pushed by the Supercars management group as a great addition to the championship support card.


It was immediately rejected by the teams and the Supercars board of directors. “They did not believe that there was space in Australia for an open wheeler category and didn't want the company to launch a potential loss-making category,” Warburton told
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Yet, Supercars are still pushing for it.
 
I don't know how feasible this would be be. But if Lambden gets no support in Aus then maybe he could bring them over here to NZ. I reckon many people out here would love to see them I know I would.
 
Litening1
I don't know how feasible this would be be. But if Lambden gets no support in Aus then maybe he could bring them over here to NZ. I reckon many people out here would love to see them I know I would.
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You already have TRS. Formula Thunder 5000 would be directly competing against it.
 
prisonermonkeys
You already have TRS. Formula Thunder 5000 would be directly competing against it.
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Nah man no competition trust me.
If FT5000 came here it would be full of older kiwi racers who have proved themselves and have the cash like Johnny Mac, Inky Tulloch, Kayne Scott, Scott Dixon when he retires from Indycar? I would want to see all these guys keep racing each other in those machines.

Where as TRS is full of young gun foreigners from Europe who come in the European off season to race and then go back as soon as it's over. There is only 2 or 3 kiwis in TRS.

TRS is more trying to be a stepping stone to European open wheelers while FT5000 would be more kiwi based.
 
LumpiestFish
I'd love to see some races in Europe but I can't see it happening
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I don't know the situation with the series' FIA status is, but it was a condition of the "International" tag that Supercars couldn't go any further west than Istanbul. That may or may not apply anymore.

The big challenge that the series would have would be getting the right circuit. A lot of European circuits are built for open-wheelers or bikes first. Touring cars don't really get a look in. The WTCC used to go to Monza, but the straights are so long and the cars that much slower than Formula 1 that the racing was incredibly dull.

Ideally, a touring car circuit should be short(-ish), with less reliance on sweepers and some of the corners spaced out. A circuit like Imola might work, but Mugello would not.

Cap'n Jack
Yeah, it's a shame that a European round will probably never happen. I feel like a race in the UK would go down very well, as far as crowd numbers go.
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Given that the ban on racing on public roads has been relaxed and Supercars' fondness for street circuits, organising a street race might work - especially if it were paired with a BTCC round.
 
Silverstone would be terrible. The section from Copse to Vale would just stretch the field out. They'd be better off going to Brands Hatch.
 
I think car gaps would be similar to Albert park and Darwin. Also, Adelaide. The field spreads at PI until a safety car. I'd say the main factor could be Giz having raced at Silverstone. I don't think any other Supercars driver has raced there. The grid spread out at Bahrain, Dubai and Shanghai.

Might depend on scheduling, is why I selected RBR or Silverstone, but I'd love to see Supercars at Brands Hatch.
 

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