2020 Formula 1 Calendar threadFormula 1

[LeGeNd-1]

This year is turning out to be the best calendar in years. Shame about the reason it takes for this to happen though.

Portimao especially is going to be amazing. If you think Zandvoort's last turn is crazy, this one is double that

They were able to do Vietnam and Zandvoort in a matter of weeks because they started using a new drone scanning procedure. Nothing stopping them from doing that in other circuits. They also already have the data for Portimao from Grid Autosport and Nurburgring from the older F1 games. They also have Imola from Project Cars, since they bought out SMS. So that’s just Mugello to scan. Besides, Codies gets stupid amounts of money from the F1 games’ sales, yet the games are 98% the same year on year. What else have they got to do?

I agree with this. It just seems typical Codies strategy of "minimal effort, maximum profit" to not going to include the new circuits and calendar changes. Might as well drop the 2020 from the title and call it just F1 20XX.

In fact with next year's rules being frozen and the cars being mostly the same (tracks as well), they could use the freed up dev time to make the extra tracks. I do not believe for one second a dev team the size of Codemasters cannot make 4-5 tracks in 5-6 months, when I see a single person in their bedroom churning equivalent quality mod tracks for Assetto Corsa every week.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Also, Codemaster's have nothing to do with pCars 3 development.

There's no way they won't be pushing for common dev assets.

the circuit hadn't been Grade 1 approved as of the latest appendix in late June?

I presume the track was due its re-approval inspection but couldn't have it through force-majeure? I'd guess the FIA issued late re-approval otherwise the insurance wouldn't have been in place. It's peculiar though.

 

[Robin]

I think it's unlikely Codemasters will add all the changes. Might end up being the lowest selling of the series as it's based on something that never happened, I certainly wouldn't buy it if it doesn't have all these new tracks.

 

[MagpieRacer]

There's no way they won't be pushing for common dev assets.

I'm sure they will be. That's different to pCars 3 development that you mentioned. Its been in development for upwards of 3 years vs 6 months of codemasteds ownership. Its already been aaid multiple times Codemasters haven't been involved with its development. 👍

What other European circuits could they pursue if today, Spain drops off the calendar, do we think they would triple header Silverstone or can anywhere jump in last minute?

 

[Jimlaad43]

I'm sure they will be. That's different to pCars 3 development that you mentioned. Its been in development for upwards of 3 years vs 6 months of codemasteds ownership. Its already been aaid multiple times Codemasters haven't been involved with its development. 👍

What other European circuits could they pursue if today, Spain drops off the calendar, do we think they would triple header Silverstone or can anywhere jump in last minute?

Silverstone has another event pencilled in for the weekend of the Spanish GP, and F1 have said that there won't be a third race there. There are enough races confirmed on the calendar now that if Spain has to drop out, they don't need to replace it. If the conditions improve in Barcelona, they could triple-header it either before or after Sochi.

 

[Frank McGank]

I think it's unlikely Codemasters will add all the changes. Might end up being the lowest selling of the series as it's based on something that never happened, I certainly wouldn't buy it if it doesn't have all these new tracks.

When you take it as just a game rather than an accurate representation of the 2020 season, it’s probably the best in the series. The new Team mode and the full GP2 season go a long way in doing that. I’ve been begging them to learn some lessons from the Milestone MotoGP games for years, and it seems they finally decided to do it. It’s the first time in a while that it’s legitimately worth upgrading from the last season game. ‘19 wasn’t worth the upgrade over ‘18, and ‘18 wasn’t worth the upgrade over ‘17. I’ve not bought new one of the F1 games since 2013, but 2020 is the first one that’s nearly convinced me to actually do so. Like I said, if they get off their lazy arses and add the new circuits as well, I’ll buy the game instantly.

 

[Robin]

When you take it as just a game rather than an accurate representation of the 2020 season, it’s probably the best in the series. The new Team mode and the full GP2 season go a long way in doing that. I’ve been begging them to learn some lessons from the Milestone MotoGP games for years, and it seems they finally decided to do it. It’s the first time in a while that it’s legitimately worth upgrading from the last season game. ‘19 wasn’t worth the upgrade over ‘18, and ‘18 wasn’t worth the upgrade over ‘17. I’ve not bought new one of the F1 games since 2013, but 2020 is the first one that’s nearly convinced me to actually do so. Like I said, if they get off their lazy arses and add the new circuits as well, I’ll buy the game instantly.

Oh yeah, I have no issue with the improvements they have made, it's just they shouldn't call it 2020. They have a real opportunity to add this seasons pandemic specific stuff and make it truly unique one off game but I can imagine they just can't be bothered.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Oh yeah, I have no issue with the improvements they have made, it's just they shouldn't call it 2020. They have a real opportunity to add this seasons pandemic specific stuff and make it truly unique one off game but I can imagine they just can't be bothered.

Theres no physical way they can do it. Been said many times and they were very clear before the season started that the time involved would be too much to get it done. Nothing to do with not being bothered. Needs around 12 months or so of man hours per circuit and thats with being able to get reference photography for each circuit. It is physically impossible for it to happen. Even getting them into the 2021 game as an extra 2020 season mode would be a massive push and may compromise development in other areas of the game, especially as it will be a next gen release.

Even if they could use SMS assets, there would still be a huge amount of extra modeling for the F1 specific stuff, getting the circuits up to the required level to match the rest of the game, reprogramming the game engine switch, the AI (which is quite advanced in this game), the racing lines, the practice programs, the localised weather and probabilities, then include a whole new mode to take advantage of this with a real 2020 calendar, plus integrate it into S1 of career mode so it switches to a normal calendar for S2. Plus do that for the F2s as well. All within the space of a few months, with F1 2021 development ongoing and ramping up into 2021, plus an increase in time for next gen development.

Simply unreasonable to expect it or to call them lazy for not.

Edit. Didn't even mention acquiring the licenses.

 

[Roger the Horse]

We all know that if game developers don't immediately announce that they're going to release something last week that that means that they're being lazy and that tight deadlines and overworked staff aren't a notorious issue in the video games industry at all.

Anyway, Nürburgring in October sounds like a gamble weather wise. I feel very sorry for the team staff with that long triple header haul, obviously these are exceptional circumstances but I really hope we don't see these sort of schedules repeated in future.

The 2 day weekend at Imola is interesting. Hopefully it will make for less predictable racing.

I think Vietnam has a strong chance of going ahead. Vietnam along with several other East Asian countries learned a lot from SARS and seems to have reacted to the pandemic well, so I can't see the urban setting of the Hanoi track being an issue.

Sepang returning would also be welcome.

 

[Frank McGank]

Theres no physical way they can do it. Been said many times and they were very clear before the season started that the time involved would be too much to get it done. Nothing to do with not being bothered. Needs around 12 months or so of man hours per circuit and thats with being able to get reference photography for each circuit. It is physically impossible for it to happen. Even getting them into the 2021 game as an extra 2020 season mode would be a massive push and may compromise development in other areas of the game, especially as it will be a next gen release.

Even if they could use SMS assets, there would still be a huge amount of extra modeling for the F1 specific stuff, getting the circuits up to the required level to match the rest of the game, reprogramming the game engine switch, the AI (which is quite advanced in this game), the racing lines, the practice programs, the localised weather and probabilities, then include a whole new mode to take advantage of this with a real 2020 calendar, plus integrate it into S1 of career mode so it switches to a normal calendar for S2. Plus do that for the F2s as well. All within the space of a few months, with F1 2021 development ongoing and ramping up into 2021, plus an increase in time for next gen development.

Simply unreasonable to expect it or to call them lazy for not.

Edit. Didn't even mention acquiring the licenses.

I’m sorry but I simply don’t believe that. There are modders for games like RFactor and Assetto Corsa that do better work in less time and with less on-site information. When a single individual working in his spare time can accurately recreate a modern F1 car in a month with zero access to actual technical data, there’s zero excuse for a major game developer with dozens of people working fulltime on it can’t do the same in the same timeframe. This whole “won’t people suffer the developers, making video games is hard so we should just take what we’re given without criticising; they are doing us a favour and we owe them our money for the privilege of playing their games” mindset is precisely why studios have become as lazy and scummy as they are, and it’s why games have consistently gone downhill in terms of quality. Codies doesn’t fix their broken code for years on end because people keep buying the games and playing apologist when someone brings up the lack of QC and effort.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Why can't they go to Buriram? Alex Albon is in a top drive, Red Bull is a half-Thai company, surely the time is perfect to visit that Grade 1 circuit which has recently joined the MotoGP calendar?

 

[MagpieRacer]

I’m sorry but I simply don’t believe that. There are modders for games like RFactor and Assetto Corsa that do better work in less time and with less on-site information. When a single individual working in his spare time can accurately recreate a modern F1 car in a month with zero access to actual technical data, there’s zero excuse for a major game developer with dozens of people working fulltime on it can’t do the same in the same timeframe. This whole “won’t people suffer the developers, making video games is hard so we should just take what we’re given without criticising; they are doing us a favour and we owe them our money for the privilege of playing their games” mindset is precisely why studios have become as lazy and scummy as they are, and it’s why games have consistently gone downhill in terms of quality. Codies doesn’t fix their broken code for years on end because people keep buying the games and playing apologist when someone brings up the lack of QC and effort.

Believe what you want mate. You're wrong, but that's OK. Shows a complete and total lack of understanding of how actual game development works, not lazily importing tracks from other games into different games with no licenses, no real programming required other than saving in the correct format, yes some tracks are done from scratch sure, go have a look at how long that takes for the modders creating it from scratch to a finish track that can be raced on with AI, then come back to me.

Great a modder can knock up a car with zero technial data, good for them, we're talking about tracks, not cars. Cars being built by codemasters have to be submitted to the teams themselves and FOM for approval, takes time, out of their hands. They can also model cars much quicker than tracks given that cars are about 4 miles shorter and 2 miles narrower. Plus acquiring relevant licences and sponsorship rights etc which modders obviously don't have to do.

If you honestly believe that how 'modding' works is how real game development works then boy you have some stuff to learn.

Edit: best example of the above is the Donington mod for Assetto Corsa. Just shy of 2.5 miles in its longest configuration, not tonnes of scenery, 2 and a half years for the scratch made track.

 

[-Fred-]

I presume the track was due its re-approval inspection but couldn't have it through force-majeure? I'd guess the FIA issued late re-approval otherwise the insurance wouldn't have been in place. It's peculiar though.

Seems to be the case, Spa was due to be re-inspected in June as well. I'm guessing they gave temporary exemptions until proper inspection can be done, or maybe they do it prior to the race weekends. The list on the FIA's website might not be 100% up to date either.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Why can't they go to Buriram? Alex Albon is in a top drive, Red Bull is a half-Thai company, surely the time is perfect to visit that Grade 1 circuit which has recently joined the MotoGP calendar?

Could be a good shout if they can't do Sepang maybe. It's understood they want another venue around that part of the world to justify travelling to Vietnam.

 

[Blitz24]

Could be a good shout if they can't do Sepang maybe. It's understood they want another venue around that part of the world to justify travelling to Vietnam.

I completely forgot about Sepang. Another option (ridiculously unlikely) could be India. I have heard nothing about that track in a few years though.

 

[Frank McGank]

Believe what you want mate. You're wrong, but that's OK. Shows a complete and total lack of understanding of how actual game development works, not lazily importing tracks from other games into different games with no licenses, no real programming required other than saving in the correct format, yes some tracks are done from scratch sure, go have a look at how long that takes for the modders creating it from scratch to a finish track that can be raced on with AI, then come back to me.

Great a modder can knock up a car with zero technial data, good for them, we're talking about tracks, not cars. Cars being built by codemasters have to be submitted to the teams themselves and FOM for approval, takes time, out of their hands. They can also model cars much quicker than tracks given that cars are about 4 miles shorter and 2 miles narrower. Plus acquiring relevant licences and sponsorship rights etc which modders obviously don't have to do.

If you honestly believe that how 'modding' works is how real game development works then boy you have some stuff to learn.

Edit: best example of the above is the Donington mod for Assetto Corsa. Just shy of 2.5 miles in its longest configuration, not tonnes of scenery, 2 and a half years for the scratch made track.

I was using cars as an example. Track licensing is tied to the F1 license. As the official F1 game, they automatically have the license to add whatever circuit is currently on the calendar that season. They don’t need to redo their license for every team and every sponsor and every circuit, it’s all tied in to the license they buy for the rights to F1. It’s not “laziness” to port data from one game to another. It’s cost-effective. Why rebuild from scratch what they already have? What other game does that? You think they rebuild Silverstone from scratch for every game? You think T10 makes Playground Games rebuild every car that’s shared between Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon?

2 and a half years, for one bloke working a few hours a week with minimal resources. Codemasters currently has about 700 employees. Let’s make an extremely conservative estimate and say just 70 of them are the people that create textures and otherwise build environments. And lets be generous and say that one bloke worked 10 hours a week to make that Donington. That’s 520 hours a year, or 1300 hours for 2½ years of work. Now lets assume that Codies’ modellers work a normal 40 hour week. That means they put in nearly 3 THOUSAND hours of work a week. But again, let’s be extremely conservative and say it’s only a thousand. It would take less than a month to build a circuit from scratch, being as conservative as possible for YOUR benefit. And this isn’t even considering the fact the AC Donington bloke was a rank amateur with significantly less competent hardware for modelling than is available to Codemasters. Codies have significantly more experience building 3D models and thus could almost certainly do it quicker and more efficiently for each individual.

You can believe what you want mate. You’re wrong, but OK.

 

[Blitz24]

I was using cars as an example. Track licensing is tied to the F1 license. As the official F1 game, they automatically have the license to add whatever circuit is currently on the calendar that season. They don’t need to redo their license for every team and every sponsor and every circuit, it’s all tied in to the license they buy for the rights to F1. It’s not “laziness” to port data from one game to another. It’s cost-effective. Why rebuild from scratch what they already have? What other game does that? You think they rebuild Silverstone from scratch for every game? You think T10 makes Playground Games rebuild every car that’s shared between Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon?

2 and a half years, for one bloke working a few hours a week with minimal resources. Codemasters currently has about 700 employees. Let’s make an extremely conservative estimate and say just 70 of them are the people that create textures and otherwise build environments. And lets be generous and say that one bloke worked 10 hours a week to make that Donington. That’s 520 hours a year, or 1300 hours for 2½ years of work. Now lets assume that Codies’ modellers work a normal 40 hour week. That means they put in nearly 3 THOUSAND hours of work a week. But again, let’s be extremely conservative and say it’s only a thousand. It would take less than a month to build a circuit from scratch, being as conservative as possible for YOUR benefit. And this isn’t even considering the fact the AC Donington bloke was a rank amateur with significantly less competent hardware for modelling than is available to Codemasters. Codies have significantly more experience building 3D models and thus could almost certainly do it quicker and more efficiently for each individual.

You can believe what you want mate. You’re wrong, but OK.

So you think it's ridiculously easy for them to send their teams to go and laser scan the track on almost no advance notice when travel is restricted at this time? Okay, that's on you.

Imola MIGHT be doable just to insert it, because they have a model of it from their 2013 game, on a previous gen system, with the 1995 layout.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I was using cars as an example. Track licensing is tied to the F1 license. As the official F1 game, they automatically have the license to add whatever circuit is currently on the calendar that season. They don’t need to redo their license for every team and every sponsor and every circuit, it’s all tied in to the license they buy for the rights to F1. It’s not “laziness” to port data from one game to another. It’s cost-effective. Why rebuild from scratch what they already have? What other game does that? You think they rebuild Silverstone from scratch for every game? You think T10 makes Playground Games rebuild every car that’s shared between Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon?

2 and a half years, for one bloke working a few hours a week with minimal resources. Codemasters currently has about 700 employees. Let’s make an extremely conservative estimate and say just 70 of them are the people that create textures and otherwise build environments. And lets be generous and say that one bloke worked 10 hours a week to make that Donington. That’s 520 hours a year, or 1300 hours for 2½ years of work. Now lets assume that Codies’ modellers work a normal 40 hour week. That means they put in nearly 3 THOUSAND hours of work a week. But again, let’s be extremely conservative and say it’s only a thousand. It would take less than a month to build a circuit from scratch, being as conservative as possible for YOUR benefit. And this isn’t even considering the fact the AC Donington bloke was a rank amateur with significantly less competent hardware for modelling than is available to Codemasters. Codies have significantly more experience building 3D models and thus could almost certainly do it quicker and more efficiently for each individual.

You can believe what you want mate. You’re wrong, but OK.

Considering the quality of the Donington mod its slightly more than average equipment and slightly above the rank of amateur. You cant say modders are kings because they port someone elses hard work into a different game. Nowhere did I say they rebuild every circuit so it clearly shows yours inability to read what I'm saying and as I said before a total lack of understanding of game development if you truly believe what you're saying. It has been stated already that it isn't possible to do in the timeframe they would have to do it for this game.

As for your estimations of time, yes they employ 700, across 4 locations in 3 countries. As of F1 2019, 108 people work on the F1 games in the Birmingham studio. So by your percentages 10 people are modelling circuits.

If you truly belive a whole circuit can be done for a triple A title on multiple platforms with the depth and processes they have to go through, then I dont know what to say to you.

As for licensing, yes, there is a massive amount of work that goes into securing licenses. The F1 license doesn't cover everything, and it also doesn't change the fact that everything has to be approved by the individual parties before it can be released, I.e. the new Mercedes livery, they've made it, it was done ages ago, doesnt take long to build new skin, but it has to go through a sign off process with F1 and Mercedes before it can be released. As the new circuits are being individually approached outside of the 2020 licensing, licneses for the individual circuits will need to be sought.

This isn't speculation, this is fact.

 

[EngieDiesel]

Guys, everyone knows that it's as simple as John Codemasters pressing the big red "PUBLISH GAME" button once a year and then watching the money roll in, come on.

 

[Frank McGank]

So you think it's ridiculously easy for them to send their teams to go and laser scan the track on almost no advance notice when travel is restricted at this time? Okay, that's on you.

Imola MIGHT be doable just to insert it, because they have a model of it from their 2013 game, on a previous gen system, with the 1995 layout.

They’ve got until mid 2021 whenever F1 2021 launches to do it. I’m not expecting them to do it tomorrow, I was criticising them for saying they wouldn’t even try. They were able to do with with Zandvoort and Vietnam, after all. And they don’t even scan most of their tracks anyway. You’re making excuses and you know it.

Considering the quality of the Donington mod its slightly more than average equipment and slightly above the rank of amateur. You cant say modders are kings because they port someone elses hard work into a different game. Nowhere did I say they rebuild every circuit so it clearly shows yours inability to read what I'm saying and as I said before a total lack of understanding of game development if you truly believe what you're saying. It has been stated already that it isn't possible to do in the timeframe they would have to do it for this game.

As for your estimations of time, yes they employ 700, across 4 locations in 3 countries. As of F1 2019, 108 people work on the F1 games in the Birmingham studio. So by your percentages 10 people are modelling circuits.

If you truly belive a whole circuit can be done for a triple A title on multiple platforms with the depth and processes they have to go through, then I dont know what to say to you.

As for licensing, yes, there is a massive amount of work that goes into securing licenses. The F1 license doesn't cover everything, and it also doesn't change the fact that everything has to be approved by the individual parties before it can be released, I.e. the new Mercedes livery, they've made it, it was done ages ago, doesnt take long to build new skin, but it has to go through a sign off process with F1 and Mercedes before it can be released. As the new circuits are being individually approached outside of the 2020 licensing, licneses for the individual circuits will need to be sought.

This isn't speculation, this is fact.

You were implying as such when you said they couldn’t just port the data in from another game in their library. Don’t backpedal. By the way, they already do that. Compare Silverstone and COTA from Grid Autosport to the ones in F1 2014-2015 from around the same time. Other than artistic differences like banners and lighting, they’re exactly the same. Even have the same inaccuracies in elevation and kerbing and the like. Clearly ported the basic framework from the F1 games to Grid AS, and reworked them as necessary to better fit Grid’s art diection.

Alright, 10 people. 400 hours of useful work a week. 1600 a month. Bam, finished the circuit in a month. And that’s not taking into account any outsourcing they may do, which basically every game studio does. What were you trying to prove, exactly?

No, they have to check with Mercedes to ensure the livery is accurate to the real thing, and to ensure they have no issue with CM removing branding for things they can’t advertise in-game (i.e., alcohol). Because Mercedes doesn’t want their car misrepresented in-game. It’s a basic formality that probably takes less than a week.
Things aren’t fact just because you decree them to be so. PROVE that the F1 license doesn’t also include the license to the circuits and branding relevant to the sport. Show me the links where Codemasters says that in addition to buying FOM branding rights, they also have to individually approach every sponsor to get the rights.

 

[TenEightyOne]

As the official F1 game, they automatically have the license to add whatever circuit is currently on the calendar that season. They don’t need to redo their license for every team and every sponsor and every circuit, it’s all tied in to the license they buy for the rights to F1.

Source required for the nature of any official F1 game licence. Because I think you're making it up.

You're quite sure they don't need sponsor permission to use their names and logos, for example?

EDIT: Just noticed you asked somebody else to prove you're wrong. Not how it works - you made the claim up, now find something to back it up with.

 

[MagpieRacer]

They’ve got until mid 2021 whenever F1 2021 launches to do it. I’m not expecting them to do it tomorrow, I was criticising them for saying they wouldn’t even try. They were able to do with with Zandvoort and Vietnam, after all. And they don’t even scan most of their tracks anyway. You’re making excuses and you know it.


You were implying as such when you said they couldn’t just port the data in from another game in their library. Don’t backpedal. By the way, they already do that. Compare Silverstone and COTA from Grid Autosport to the ones in F1 2014-2015 from around the same time. Other than artistic differences like banners and lighting, they’re exactly the same. Even have the same inaccuracies in elevation and kerbing and the like. Clearly ported the basic framework from the F1 games to Grid AS, and reworked them as necessary to better fit Grid’s art diection.

Alright, 10 people. 400 hours of useful work a week. 1600 a month. Bam, finished the circuit in a month. And that’s not taking into account any outsourcing they may do, which basically every game studio does. What were you trying to prove, exactly?

No, they have to check with Mercedes to ensure the livery is accurate to the real thing, and to ensure they have no issue with CM removing branding for things they can’t advertise in-game (i.e., alcohol). Because Mercedes doesn’t want their car misrepresented in-game. It’s a basic formality that probably takes less than a week.
Things aren’t fact just because you decree them to be so. PROVE that the F1 license doesn’t also include the license to the circuits and branding relevant to the sport. Show me the links where Codemasters says that in addition to buying FOM branding rights, they also have to individually approach every sponsor to get the rights.

Where did I imply that? Last time I checked they don't have these tracks in their library.. so yeah. And with Zandvoort and Vietnam they had far more time to prepare being as they could make the circuits prior to the game launch, you know, like normal. And even then, Zandvoort for some of it was estimation as the circuit hadn't been finished before they needed to start finalising the game.

I can tell you don't know too much about the goings on of what goes on behind the scenes with the F1 games, so I'll take you refusal to accept the information as just inexperience and a real passionate desire in your heart to want these tracks in this game even though it won't happen. Whether they can be bothered or not is moot, they know their team best as they've developed 11 F1 games, so they'll have a pretty good handle on what they can do in what time frames. Doesn't mean they won't bother for 2021 as an additional mode or something along those lines. But that is speculation.

Obviously your good at twisting words, the F1 license covers the GPs, all immediate licensing, teams blah blah, drivers can choose to opt out if they want to but its been a while since that happened. As these circuits being added aren’t part of the licensing agreement and arrangement they would need to seek licensing for the circuits. Shouldn't be difficult, they've used the Nurburgring and Imola before back in 2013 and whenever the most recent Nurburgring race was. Portimao was in Grid Autosport on previous gen but I don't think they've ever had Mugello. They're a formality, but one thay takes time. Likewise the livery, it may take a week, it may take 2, it could take 2 days. Depends how fast Mercedes deal with that particular email, if it gets to the right people, signed off and sent back, again, a formality, but again, one that can take time. More so if there's something that needs changing. Then it needs to be built into a oatch, submitted to the relevant platforms, pretty straight forward, again, can take time as we found out with Microsoft which saw a near 2/3 week delay on the day 1 patch because of an issue. And that patch had already been made, 3 weeks to get an already made patch onto a system.

Having followed the development of these games from their first one in 2010, interacted with the game directors throughout the years, participated in the closed beta 2 years running with a deeper insight into how the game is built and what can or can't be done, what processes mean and why they're done, I can't provide you with a link. I coukd waste a few months of my life and go back through every forum post, tweet, interaction, private chat and so on to prove all my points but as you would still find a reason to argue against it I really don't see the point.

 

[Frank McGank]

Where did I imply that? Last time I checked they don't have these tracks in their library.. so yeah. And with Zandvoort and Vietnam they had far more time to prepare being as they could make the circuits prior to the game launch, you know, like normal. And even then, Zandvoort for some of it was estimation as the circuit hadn't been finished before they needed to start finalising the game.

I can tell you don't know too much about the goings on of what goes on behind the scenes with the F1 games, so I'll take you refusal to accept the information as just inexperience and a real passionate desire in your heart to want these tracks in this game even though it won't happen. Whether they can be bothered or not is moot, they know their team best as they've developed 11 F1 games, so they'll have a pretty good handle on what they can do in what time frames. Doesn't mean they won't bother for 2021 as an additional mode or something along those lines. But that is speculation.

Obviously your good at twisting words, the F1 license covers the GPs, all immediate licensing, teams blah blah, drivers can choose to opt out if they want to but its been a while since that happened. As these circuits being added aren’t part of the licensing agreement and arrangement they would need to seek licensing for the circuits. Shouldn't be difficult, they've used the Nurburgring and Imola before back in 2013 and whenever the most recent Nurburgring race was. Portimao was in Grid Autosport on previous gen but I don't think they've ever had Mugello. They're a formality, but one thay takes time. Likewise the livery, it may take a week, it may take 2, it could take 2 days. Depends how fast Mercedes deal with that particular email, if it gets to the right people, signed off and sent back, again, a formality, but again, one that can take time. More so if there's something that needs changing. Then it needs to be built into a oatch, submitted to the relevant platforms, pretty straight forward, again, can take time as we found out with Microsoft which saw a near 2/3 week delay on the day 1 patch because of an issue. And that patch had already been made, 3 weeks to get an already made patch onto a system.

Having followed the development of these games from their first one in 2010, interacted with the game directors throughout the years, participated in the closed beta 2 years running with a deeper insight into how the game is built and what can or can't be done, what processes mean and why they're done, I can't provide you with a link. I coukd waste a few months of my life and go back through every forum post, tweet, interaction, private chat and so on to prove all my points but as you would still find a reason to argue against it I really don't see the point.

No links then? Got it.

Source required for the nature of any official F1 game licence. Because I think you're making it up.

You're quite sure they don't need sponsor permission to use their names and logos, for example?

EDIT: Just noticed you asked somebody else to prove you're wrong. Not how it works - you made the claim up, now find something to back it up with.

Because that’s how it works in every other sports game. When EA buys the FIFA license, they get the rights to all the teams sanctioned by FIFA and by association the players for those teams. Because the players are owned by their teams, and the teams are functionally owned by FIFA. Just like F1 drivers are employed by their teams, and the teams are under the jurisdiction of FOM. Who is where CM gets the rights for the games. FOM are the collective bargaining group for the teams, and thus FOM can only do what the teams collectively agree on. So when CM buys the rights to the F1 brand, they are buying that right from the constructors themselves via their intermediary. If that didn’t include the right to their sponsors as well, it would mean every single TV network that airs F1 would also need to get the permission from every team’s individual sponsors. They don’t. They buy the rights to F1, and everything else is included. It’s basic logic.

And no, my claim was that CM could port Imola and Portimao from other games in their portfolio, and could from a technical standpoint make Mugello in a month if they tried. I then PROVED this with basic maths. The other bloke is the one who brought licensing into the equation, by saying “nope CM needs to buy the rights from every single sponsor involved and you’re a big fat dumdum doodoo-head if you disagree” with zero evidence to back it up.

 

[MagpieRacer]

No links then? Got it.


Because that’s how it works in every other sports game. When EA buys the FIFA license, they get the rights to all the teams sanctioned by FIFA and by association the players for those teams. Because the players are owned by their teams, and the teams are functionally owned by FIFA. Just like F1 drivers are employed by their teams, and the teams are under the jurisdiction of FOM. Who is where CM gets the rights for the games. FOM are the collective bargaining group for the teams, and thus FOM can only do what the teams collectively agree on. So when CM buys the rights to the F1 brand, they are buying that right from the constructors themselves via their intermediary. If that didn’t include the right to their sponsors as well, it would mean every single TV network that airs F1 would also need to get the permission from every team’s individual sponsors. They don’t. They buy the rights to F1, and everything else is included. It’s basic logic.

And no, my claim was that CM could port Imola and Portimao from other games in their portfolio, and could from a technical standpoint make Mugello in a month if they tried. I then PROVED this with basic maths. The other bloke is the one who brought licensing into the equation, by saying “nope CM needs to buy the rights from every single sponsor involved and you’re a big fat dumdum doodoo-head if you disagree” with zero evidence to back it up.

Nope no links, like I said, if you actually follow the development its pretty obvious but you don't so thats that. Again, haven't said they need to license every sponsor, I've said they'll need to secure licensing for the 4 additional tracks which shouldn't be an issue for them. Pertaining to the cars, every car needs to be signed off by the relevant teams and F1, not a claim of every sponsor needing licensing. I actually stated in my post that the license covers everything immediately tied to F1 so perhaps you need to read my posts properly.

Wrong wrong wrong. The FIFA example is the worst one you could have chosen. They don't automatically get the rights to all teams and players. FIFPro, the union representing the players, is a separate license for the player rights, hence some games cant use the real player names and likenesses as they don't hold it. Plus, like in the case of Juventus (or Piemont Calcio as they were called) last year, it doesn't guarantee you can have every team licensed just because they come under FIFA. UEFA comes under FIFA and it was only FIFA 19 where they could use the champions league and Europe league due to them being licensed separately. Clubs can be individualicensed, they can be exclusively licensed, as can the leagues. PES also has exclusivity on Russian Premier league and Euro 2020, 2 more things FIFA can't have despite holding the FIFA license.👍 So based on that alone your theory is debunked. Also for a time Jaques Villeneuve refused to be in the gamss, again proving that an individual can refuse to be involved/ licesned elsewhere.

We know what your claim was regarding their portfolio, the counterpoint being they dont currently have those tracks in their portfolio. And no from a technial standpoint they cant make Mugello in less than a month. As has been stated a million times already, here, there and everywhere. But by all means, pop over to Codies and tell them they've been doing it wrong all this time. 👍

 

[Jimlaad43]

No links then? Got it.

None of your "claims" have included links, so why should we believe them? Do you not understand when you've lost a discussion? This is the second thread in a week that you're inciting arguments in threads that are being picked apart with evidence and reason, yet you still won't stop or even listen to them. Please stop for the sake of yourself, as well as the rest of us having to waste time refuting all your claims.

 

[andrea]

It’s like real life DLC.

 

[Dennisch]

Can you guys move to the actual F1 sim racing thread or something?

 

[Frank McGank]

Nope no links, like I said, if you actually follow the development its pretty obvious but you don't so thats that. Again, haven't said they need to license every sponsor, I've said they'll need to secure licensing for the 4 additional tracks which shouldn't be an issue for them. Pertaining to the cars, every car needs to be signed off by the relevant teams and F1, not a claim of every sponsor needing licensing. I actually stated in my post that the license covers everything immediately tied to F1 so perhaps you need to read my posts properly.

Wrong wrong wrong. The FIFA example is the worst one you could have chosen. They don't automatically get the rights to all teams and players. FIFPro, the union representing the players, is a separate license for the player rights, hence some games cant use the real player names and likenesses as they don't hold it. Plus, like in the case of Juventus (or Piemont Calcio as they were called) last year, it doesn't guarantee you can have every team licensed just because they come under FIFA. UEFA comes under FIFA and it was only FIFA 19 where they could use the champions league and Europe league due to them being licensed separately. Clubs can be individualicensed, they can be exclusively licensed, as can the leagues. PES also has exclusivity on Russian Premier league and Euro 2020, 2 more things FIFA can't have despite holding the FIFA license.👍 So based on that alone your theory is debunked. Also for a time Jaques Villeneuve refused to be in the gamss, again proving that an individual can refuse to be involved/ licesned elsewhere.

We know what your claim was regarding their portfolio, the counterpoint being they dont currently have those tracks in their portfolio. And no from a technial standpoint they cant make Mugello in less than a month. As has been stated a million times already, here, there and everywhere. But by all means, pop over to Codies and tell them they've been doing it wrong all this time. 👍

Fine, FIFA was just a game I pulled out of my arse. A Madden game, then. As you said, FIFA is for ALL football, just as FIA is for all motorsorts. A more apt comparison is, as just stated, a specific sports game like Madden NFL or something similar. F1 games are licensed from FOM specifically, which is the team/driver ‘union’. Who uniquely hold all licensing and legal rights for the F1 brand. Still haven’t backed up any of your claims.
“Villeneuve didn’t let his name be used in video games” back in the 90s, when FOM didn’t have complete control of that stuff yet, so he was able to copyright his name and image. Later Concorde Agreements consolidated and centralised commecial power towards FOM as a business and away from teams as individuals. In fact, 1998 was the last year Villeneuve was able to refuse rights and 1998 is also when the CA finally consolidated all commercial rights to FOM. For F1 99, the first game after the 98 CA came into effect, Villeneuve was in the game. So... congrats, you proved MY point.
“Counterpointed” incorrectly. Codemasters owns the rights to the Grid franchise, which has the data for Portimao. Codemasters also just bought SMS who make Project Cars, which has the data for Imola. You can disagree all you like, Codemasters factually has the data.
Lul yes, Codies has been doing it wrong. The single biggest complaint about Codemasters from their playerbase is their lazy development style and spaghetti code. Are you actually going to try and defend CM and say they can’t do any better? Is that truly the hill you want to die on, when there are entire forums dedicated to discussing just how bad their operation is ran?
“Conjecture, opinion, conjecture, opinion” that’s all you’ve offered. What else you have to say?

None of your "claims" have included links, so why should we believe them? Do you not understand when you've lost a discussion? This is the second thread in a week that you're inciting arguments in threads that are being picked apart with evidence and reason, yet you still won't stop or even listen to them. Please stop for the sake of yourself, as well as the rest of us having to waste time refuting all your claims.

Because my claims were based on simple multiplication. What, you want a link to an online calculator? Okay: https://www.online-calculator.com/ your turn

You’re the one making claims based on business decisions you THINK CM are doing. I haven’t lost a thing. You haven’t disproven anything I’ve said. All you did was say “nope, you’re wrong” and then kept repeating it as if repetition is proof.
“Picked apart with evidence and reason” so opinion and raw emotion are evidence and reason now? Good to know. You haven’t refuted anything, just a reminder.

 

[TenEightyOne]

they cant make Mugello in less than a month

They'll use the magic cover-all insta-track solution: laser scanning

 

[Roger the Horse]

Even if Codemasters were planning on releasing these extra tracks they wouldn't announce that they were doing so until far closer to completion. From a public relations perspective it's generally best to not make anything which can be read as a promise (which on the internet is sadly anything other than outright denial) until you are relatively confident you can deliver on what you have (been percieved to have) promised.

Making overly ambitious promises too early is how you wind up with the sort of backlash No Man's Sky faced.

Ultimately that means that at this stage it's utterly irrelevant for us to be discussing whether or not these tracks will wind up being added as DLC or appearing in the 2021 release. The answer is "maybe we will, maybe we wont, but there's no way for us to know".

That is to say, please stop this pointless argument. Nobody wins here and it's not the point of this thread.

Now, returning to the original topic, if they want to add an extra track in Eastern Asia alongside Vietnam there are certainly several interesting options to consider but without having a firm knowledge of the exact situation in each of those countries it's hard to tell.

Shanghai sounds like it's most likely not going to go ahead this year as the PRC understanderbly doesn't want international sporting events which aren't in preperation for the 2022 Winter Olympics within its borders this year. With Suzuka not going ahead and Fuji presumably unlikely on top of that (beyond the fact that Fuji in November would be a brave part of the space-time continuum to host a Grand Prix to begin with) and Australia signalling that its borders will be closed until at least 2021 that leaves Sepang and Buriam as the obvious targets.

And when it comes to that I'm split. Sepang is a fine circuit with a strong track record (pun not intended) in Formula 1, while Buriam brings the prospect of yet more novelty to the calendar.