2024 Formula 1 Drivers threadFormula 1

[SestoScudo]

Fisichella had just pretty much saved his career pretty much at Spa 2009. He moved to Ferrari to finish the season and was instantly anonymous again and never raced after the end of that season.

He went on to race Ferrari's GT2/GTE cars. He did not completely disappear from racing.

Honestly Ferrari is F1 and F1 is Ferrari. Teams come and go while Ferrari still is in F1 ever since it began because F1 is basically its identity.

If Ferrari decided to pull the plug on its F1 program no doubt it will be the biggest shock in the sport.

When going to the Australian Grand Prix everytime Ferrari wins. Lygon Street in Melbourne erupts into a huge party thanks to the local Italian Australians with Ferrari cars everywhere.

I dont see any fanbase creating such an atmosphere especially in F1.

 

[TumeK5]

He went on to race Ferrari's GT2/GTE cars. He did not completely disappear from racing.

Everyone knows that. He was referring to his F1 career.

 

[Liquid]

F1 is basically [Ferrari's] identity

That's why Ferrari needs F1 more than F1 needs Ferrari.

 

[SestoScudo]

That's why Ferrari needs F1 more than F1 needs Ferrari.

Id say its mutual since both complement each other.

Its hard to see Ferrari not being in F1 its like Real Madrid never participating in the UCL.

F1 and the UCL still continue without them but still leaves an empty hole.

Not just Ferrari imagine if we lose Mclaren and Williams. Losing them is much of a big deal than Has, Red Bull and AT.

 

[Liquid]

Its hard to see Ferrari not being in F1 its like Real Madrid never participating in the UCL.

Hard but not impossible.

Real Madrid didn't compete in the Champions League in the following seasons:

1992/93
1993/94
1994/95
1996/97

They also didn't appear in the preceding European Cup in the following seasons:

1970/71
1971/72
1973/74
1974/75
1977/78
1981/82
1982/83
1983/84
1984/85
1985/86
1991/92

Both competitions, Formula One and the Champions League, would survive without. They might have the highest profile, Ferrari and Real Madrid, but they're not immutable nor irreplaceable.

 

[DG_Silva]

I can't think off the top of my head of any driver whose F1 career was spoilt by taking a full time drive for the scuderia.

I'd argue Rubens Barrichello's career was wrecked by having to play second fiddle to Michael for so long, always the second driver and never getting an even chance. That he put himself in that position was as a result of wanting to go to Ferrari, and it was only the saving grace of Braun GP that helped him recover.

 

[SestoScudo]

Hard but not impossible.

Real Madrid didn't compete in the Champions League in the following seasons:

1992/93
1993/94
1994/95
1996/97

They also didn't appear in the preceding European Cup in the following seasons:

1970/71
1971/72
1973/74
1974/75
1977/78
1981/82
1982/83
1983/84
1984/85
1985/86
1991/92

Both competitions, Formula One and the Champions League, would survive without. They might have the highest profile, Ferrari and Real Madrid, but they're not immutable nor irreplaceable.

Even if those competitions continue without them.

Still will feel empty without them.

 

[TheCracker]

I'd argue Rubens Barrichello's career was wrecked by having to play second fiddle to Michael for so long, always the second driver and never getting an even chance. That he put himself in that position was as a result of wanting to go to Ferrari, and it was only the saving grace of Braun GP that helped him recover.

That was his own choice to do so though. He signed up with them originally for two years, 2000 and 2001 seasons, but he was there until 2005 and contracted until the end of 2006 (although he was released from that a year early) So he must have signed at least once more for them, maybe twice. If his career was ruined by his stint at Ferrari, it was his choice to let it do so. He was a stella driver, but anyone who was team mates with Schumacher in his prime was always going to play second fiddle, team orders or not.

 

[Liquid]

I'd argue Rubens Barrichello's career was wrecked by having to play second fiddle to Michael for so long, always the second driver and never getting an even chance. That he put himself in that position was as a result of wanting to go to Ferrari, and it was only the saving grace of Braun GP that helped him recover.

I'm the biggest Barrichello fan out there but really, there was hardly anywhere else to go during 2001-04. It's either trundling around outside the points or scraping 3rds and 4ths for another team; we are talking about a (sigh, similar) time period where the other 10 teams might as well not bother showing up.

Barrichello wasn't going to get number one status at McLaren over Räikkönen, at Renault over Alonso nor at Williams over Ralf Schumacher or Montoya. If you're going to be a number two, it might as well be at the number one team. He got paid handsomely and won several races despite the team's obvious preferential treatment. And he was still in Formula One six years after leaving Ferrari.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I'm the biggest Barrichello fan out there but really, there was hardly anywhere else to go during 2001-04. It's either trundling around outside the points or scraping 3rds and 4ths for another team; we are talking about a (sigh, similar) time period where the other 10 teams might as well not bother showing up.

Barrichello wasn't going to get number one status at McLaren over Räikkönen, at Renault over Alonso nor at Williams over Ralf Schumacher or Montoya. If you're going to be a number two, it might as well be at the number one team. He got paid handsomely and won several races despite the team's obvious preferential treatment. And he was still in Formula One six years after leaving Ferrari.

And had a real shot at the 2009 title for good measure.

 

[Grayfox]

If Ferrari decided to pull the plug on its F1 program no doubt it will be the biggest shock in the sport.

Does Ferrari threaten to leave F1 every few years.

 

[egl92]

We have to keep in mind that times change. For people who were born in the 21st century, Ferrari is an average team. Their references are Mercedes and Red Bull. Hamilton and Verstappen.

Williams there was a time when he was at the top, today if the team were to die, few would miss him. Except the nostalgics.

Currently it would be more tragic for F1 to lose Red Bull or Mercedes than Ferrari, Williams or McLaren.

On the other hand, Ferrari with his Ferrari Challenge, the GT3 clients and the exceptional work of AF Corse in the WEC would not miss F1.

IMO what made Scuderia Ferrari legendary was not so much its victories in F1 but its success in endurance racing in the 50's and 60's.

Anyway nowadays people associate Ferrari with dream cars for millionaires and not with F1.

Following the example of football with Real Madrid.

Take a look at the titles of Genoa, Athletic Bilbao, Saint Etienne, Hamburger... Impressive.

Today's teenagers only care about the new millionaires PSG and Manchester City.

 

[sillybilly]

I'd argue Rubens Barrichello's career was wrecked by having to play second fiddle to Michael for so long, always the second driver and never getting an even chance. That he put himself in that position was as a result of wanting to go to Ferrari, and it was only the saving grace of Braun GP that helped him recover.

Career wrecked?? He was only at Ferrari for 5 seasons while his career is 19 seasons long (2nd most of all-time) and 323 grand prix (3rd most all time before they had 20+ race seasons). Let's check it 14 pole,11 wins and 68 podiums (all-time ranks 27th, 30th and 9th).

He never went more than 2 season in a row without a podium.
pole position for 4 teams,
podiums for 5 teams.

He is one of the most accomplished and successful drivers to not win the championship and there is not doubt he had the speed that he could have if the situation was right. He should be revered like Moss as one of the greatest to not be WDC and not someone who had a 'wrecked' career.

I'm the biggest Barrichello fan out there but really, there was hardly anywhere else to go during 2001-04.

^ This.

 

[DG_Silva]

That was his own choice to do so though...... He was a stellar driver, but anyone who was team mates with Schumacher in his prime was always going to play second fiddle, team orders or not.

Isn't it the case that any driver (apart from Stroll) puts themself in the position they're in? Nobody forces them to sign a contract.

I'm the biggest Barrichello fan out there but really, there was hardly anywhere else to go during 2001-04. It's either trundling around outside the points or scraping 3rds and 4ths for another team; we are talking about a (sigh, similar) time period where the other 10 teams might as well not bother showing up.

Barrichello wasn't going to get number one status at McLaren over Räikkönen, at Renault over Alonso nor at Williams over Ralf Schumacher or Montoya. If you're going to be a number two, it might as well be at the number one team. He got paid handsomely and won several races despite the team's obvious preferential treatment. And he was still in Formula One six years after leaving Ferrari.

That's my point, he became the perennial number two driver from this point on - nothing he could do would change that for him in the eyes of the public. I agree that the spaces were limited for him to go to, but wherever else he went he would've been given a fair chance - Williams and McLaren allowed their drivers to compete.

Career wrecked?? He was only at Ferrari for 5 seasons while his career is 19 seasons long (2nd most of all-time) and 323 grand prix (3rd most all time before they had 20+ race seasons). Let's check it 14 pole,11 wins and 68 podiums (all-time ranks 27th, 30th and 9th).

He never went more than 2 season in a row without a podium.
pole position for 4 teams,
podiums for 5 teams.

He is one of the most accomplished and successful drivers to not win the championship and there is not doubt he had the speed that he could have if the situation was right. He should be revered like Moss as one of the greatest to not be WDC and not someone who had a 'wrecked' career.


^ This.

I'm not suggesting that his results were poor - far from it - but he was in a rocket ship with tyres developed purely for his car and a chief engineer who was extremely talented at bending the rules (or outright cheating, depending on your point of view).

I'm not disputing that Rubens is a great driver, he's a great talent with adding excellent races behind him, and he wouldn't have stayed in the sport for as long as he did without them. Not am I dismissing his achievements after F1. However, the question was 'any driver whose F1 career was spoilt by taking a full time drive for the scuderia', and the simple answer was, in my opinion, that his career and perception was tarnished after his tenure at Maranello. Maybe the word spoilt is having different meanings here - I don't mean that his career was wrecked - but there was a mark on his career after having to play second fiddle, the same mark which blighted Massa.

 

[sillybilly]

However, the question was 'any driver whose F1 career was spoilt by taking a full time drive for the scuderia'

Well, perhaps we could suggest Schumacher was 'spoilt' by going to Ferrari. On one hand spoilt with the performance they eventually were able to develop. Otherwise is reputation is spoilt by dim opinions devaluing his skill with comments that the car was a 'rocket' ship entitled or destined to win.

So many other scenarios, if Schumacher had stayed at Benetton he might have won 96, if he went to Williams he would have won 96 and 97, if he went to McLaren he could have plundered the 98 and 99 seasons. with a combination of those he could have been a 5 or 6 x WDC by the time the Y2K bug bounced by... and who knows if he wouldn't have ended up with 8, 9 or 10 titles before retiring.

On the other hand very subjectively - I think that Vettel's career and reputation was saved by going to Ferrari. He was precocious at Red Bull and just piloting rockets, but he showed some real grit, real character and is now a genuine legend of the sport.

That's why Ferrari needs F1 more than F1 needs Ferrari.

I think it's pretty mutual as their history is so intertwined. Both would survive a separation - Ferrari just won some exclusive 24Hr endurance race that could shift their momentum. I think they make a decent profit on their road cars these days and the reputation of the road car engineering is no longer resting on any allure of association with the elitist Fl involvement. I'd even think less and less of Ferrari customers care about Fl compared to in the past.

I prefer other motorsports more than Fl at the moment and the lack of Ferrari in some of those is zero amount of a problem or negative for my enjoyment.

 

[Earth]

That should be curtains on Logan Sargaent's F1 career. Not sure why he's being allowed to finish the season. It would be better to get a young promising driver seat time.

I just hope Williams doesnt replace him with Mick Schumacher. That would be another step backwards

 

[Veinz]

He has the speed to score points in that car but he just can’t seem to stop crashing. I hate to say it but he’s not an improvement over Latifi.

Edit: According to Vowles, he lost power steering which led to the crash today.

 

[Har1MAS1415]

Not a bad impromptu debut for Liam Lawson today.

 

[rsh]

He has the speed to score points in that car but he just can’t seem to stop crashing. I hate to say it but he’s not an improvement over Latifi.

Edit: According to Vowles, he lost power steering which led to the crash today.

When you look at the onboard, something snapped or broke. He steers in, but the tires point straight.
He hit the curbs, which drivers ar supposed to there, and then he was a passenger.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Hamilton and Russell to stay at Mercedes for the next two seasons.

 

[AshenGraey]

Was Russell's contract ending this year as well? Or did they just decided to extend it?

 

[Fezzik]

Was Russell's contract ending this year as well? Or did they just decided to extend it?

Think it was generally assumed to b up at the end of next year. Not sure the actual length was ever confirmed, other than just being "long-term".

Not many decent seats open in the near future, maybe some changes at Ferrari and whoever becomes Max's next whipping boy.

 

[EngieDiesel]

I really wouldn't expect any seats to fully open up until 2026 anyway, not unless there's a major contract dispute or an injury that keeps someone out for more than a couple races.

Or I guess RBR falling off a cliff performance-wise and someone else being elevated into the Big Three in their place, or maybe if Piastri or Sargent just underperform so horrendously that they're forced out, but I'm not exactly holding my breath on any of that either.

 

[toastet]

I really wouldn't expect any seats to fully open up until 2026 anyway, not unless there's a major contract dispute or an injury that keeps someone out for more than a couple races.

Or I guess RBR falling off a cliff performance-wise and someone else being elevated into the Big Three in their place, or maybe if Piastri or Sargent just underperform so horrendously that they're forced out, but I'm not exactly holding my breath on any of that either.

Perezes seat is far from safe, Zhou/Bottas, Sainz and maybe even Leclerc if he wants to move (which I doubt), Stroll (if he quits), Magnussen, Seargeant, Ricciardo. Still contract papers are worthless in F1 for all other drivers too. It's 2.5 seasons until '26. No chance at all having the same driver lineup the next 2,5 years.

 

[XJ40]

I understand the tricky situation Red Bull are in.

Do they stick with Perez, a guy who is capable of winning when Max can't, and scores enough points to be 2nd in the title race and helps win the constructors championship?

Or do they get someone faster than Perez, and expect this driver to win when Max can't, and score enough points to be 2nd in the title race and help win the constructors championship?

 

[TheCracker]

I understand the tricky situation Red Bull are in.

Do they stick with Perez, a guy who is capable of winning when Max can't, and scores enough points to be 2nd in the title race and helps win the constructors championship?

Or do they get someone faster than Perez, and expect this driver to win when Max can't, and score enough points to be 2nd in the title race and help win the constructors championship?

They don't even need a second driver, they could put Geri Halliwell in the second car it would make no difference. Take Perez's 2023 season results away and bump up the other driver's points and Red Bull would still be leading the constructors, at this stage in the season, by more than 50* points on Max's results alone.

* sprint and pole points not included, but wouldn't make much difference.

 

[Liquid]

Cut Bottas some slack.

Yeah, I said it.

People are expecting way too much from him. He's Lewis Hamilton's teammate. Lewis Hamilton's. That means his job, whether it is literally worded in his contract or not, is to not challenge Hamilton too much and take points away from any potential challengers. We might want someone to be in the same car as Hamilton and give him a challenge but that is absolutely not what Mercedes wants and I'm reasonably sure it's not what Hamilton wants. Think about Hamilton during his times alongside Button and Rosberg; sure, he edged them out more times than not but he was made to work bloody hard for it, possibly too hard given how Hamilton has cruised to his last four titles with an easier teammate.

It's a front-running Formula One team. They've got "their guy" and they build the car around him. Fielding a second car is simply a legal necessity. That's how it works and I'm surprised at some people seemingly failing to accept that in always looking for a reason to lambast Bottas for not being as good as or close to Hamilton. Did you really think that he would be?

I just think Bottas gets an unbelievably disproportionate amount of criticism in a way that, let's say... Johnny Herbert, Eddie Irvine, Rubens Barrichello, David Coulthard and Giancarlo Fisichella didn't at various points in time. And three of those names alone were partnered with Michael Schumacher, another top driver known for being literally the only thing that mattered in his team.

Ease up a bit; you'd swear that the combined incarnate of Yuji Ide and Jean-Denis Deletraz was driving the way some people go on. If you're looking for someone to be as equally brilliant alongside Hamilton in the second Mercedes, what sport did you think you were watching for the past four years? Just accept it until someone else takes the seat or until Hamilton retires. It's pretty much a case of if you've nothing nice to say, don't say anything.

And in anticipation of replies to this opinion, no, I don't think Bottas is doing a brilliant job and I don't think he ought to be in that seat. I stress that I think the criticism is disproportionate, not unwarranted.

This time:

Bottas = Perez
Hamilton = Verstappen

And to repeat what I feel is one of the most important notes:

It's a front-running Formula One team. Fielding a second car is simply a legal necessity.

 

[sillybilly]

This time:

Bottas = Perez
Hamilton = Verstappen

And to repeat what I feel is one of the most important notes:

It's a front-running Formula One team. Fielding a second car is simply a legal necessity.

That's a dominating team...

A front-running team could be Red Bull or Ferrari in 2010 or 2012?? in both of those years the #2 RBR won races where a rival outperformed and outscored the #1 RBR and in both years if the rival had won those races they would have taken the WDC.

 

[rsh]

During the Mercedes dominated years, Ferrari could challenge them, once in a while.
Or their number one driver was outdriven due to a mix of car development and more talent with RedBull and Verstappen, for instance at Kuala Lumpur.

Comparing drivers with others is always a bit weird. Circumstances, contract can be taken into account, but the speed difference between teammates is also a thing.
Rosberg and Hamilton where not that far apart. Hamilton and Bottas in qualifying was in favor of the Brit. But then you have those ‘qualifying beasts’. Drivers who are faster over one lap then during a race (Jarno Trulli and his famous Trulli-trains anyone?).

What I can note is that under the wet conditions last week, Verstappen was 4.2 (!) seconds faster then Perez, whilst overtaking Zhou during that lap.
But according to some people here, Perez should be equal to Verstappen also. At least at the beginning of every season.
It comes to show that instead of sience, this is more a what if… conversation.

 

[Fezzik]

Alfa Audi Sauber Whatever they'll be called next year are sticking with Bottas/Zhou for another year.

Sauber Group

www.sauber-group.com

Not sure how much longer Theo will want to wait for a seat, especially if he wins the F2 championship.