2025 Repco Supercars ChampionshipTouring Cars 

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Plus, it’s crazy that Ford sell more vehicles here than Chevrolet. Toyota sell more vehicles than both brands. GM have a tip of a toothpick’s share of the market and still dictating this race series.
 
Parity?

While it certainly was exiting to watch (edit: well, the second half was, the first half was just demoralising), it was a Bradbury win for Payne/Tander because even in the wet is was embarrassing how easily the Camaro's where overtaking the Ford's down Conrod.
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Edit: Also, Warburton's statement that ''Long-term, Supercars now has the chance to mandate one-off altitude-related tweaks before the next visit to Bathurst'' is an absolute joke. Two ****en years DJR have been waiting for this barometric testing.

Ford has had to wait three years on everything/anything to be resolved in the Gen 3 era for parity. What happens if the Toyota happens to be a jet, a jet that isn't to be put through the stringent engine parity testing until at least mid season? Three more years of unfairness?

It's a ****en joke that rain cannot continue to hide!

GM/Supercars need to get with the program and switch from their boat anchor to the Corvette LT dual overhead cam engine (don't get me wrong, I love the old boat anchor LS engines, just not for this series in current form).
I don't mean to be rude but I think you should get off your soapbox...
 
I don't mean to be rude but I think you should get off your soapbox...
:lol: That's something the one-eyed GM/GMH flogs on FB that don't care about parity and don't want a fair race would say...
 
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Didn't look unfair to me.
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How could you not see the straight line advantage the GM's had?

Edit: I'm not sure how much of the event you saw but I watched every session, and read pretty well all of the articles, and had many FB ''discussions'' (:lol:) so I probably saw more than most. I also delved deep into the timing on Natsoft which had some pretty revealing stats. One of which was that in qualifying if you put all of Macauley Jones best sector times together he would've done a 2:03.9*** and been faster than every Ford on the grid with each cars best sector times, none of which could go lower than a 2:04.0***... and Macca was far from the only one on the GM side.

And I don't know if you saw this from DJR

Parity is the foundation of the Supercars Championship. Without it, there is no competition.

For two years, Ford teams have demanded engine testing at Bathurst barometric pressures. For two years, Supercars delayed. Then, before the 2025 Repco Bathurst 1000, they finally conducted the testing at their own facility, with their own equipment, under their own methodology.

And the results are irrefutable.

Despite making the same power at sea-level, at 92kPa barometric pressure (Bathurst conditions) the GM engine produces up to an additional 10 horsepower over the Ford engine above 5,900 rpm, where the engine operates for 94% of a lap of Mount Panorama at full throttle.

This data explains why the Mustang is slower than the Camaro in a straight line at Bathurst – double the deficit at sea-level circuits.

Supercars’ Director of Powertrains at their facility, developed a technical solution to correct this proven disparity: a 1mm larger restrictor and revised engine calibration.

Supercars have failed to implement it on the basis that GM declined to agree to it.

James Warburton said his job is to ensure “anyone in any brand in any team can walk through the gates at any race track and actually win the race.”

Supercars chose consultation with GM over correction. They chose politics over parity. They confirmed the problem exists. They know how to fix it. They chose not to.

We asked the Stewards whether Supercars’ failure to implement the fix breached the category’s parity obligations and the FIA International Sporting Code (ISC) obligation of fairness, under their supreme authority to settle any matter which may arise during an event, also under the ISC.

After considerable deliberation, whilst not offering an opinion as to the merits of the protest, the Stewards determined that they lacked the necessary jurisdiction to apply the remedy sought.

We accept their decision, we move on.

To our fans: You’ve watched this unfold for two years. You’ve seen the numbers from the speed trap on Conrod Straight. You’ve heard the promises. Now you know the facts. Supercars’ own testing has validated that there is no parity at Bathurst.

We will race hard on Sunday. We always do. But winning will require us to be more extraordinary than ever, as we will do so knowing we’re racing with one hand tied behind our back.

We know the cost of speaking out. But the integrity of this sport depends on someone being willing to say publicly what Supercars have said themselves in their own report.

We didn’t come to Bathurst to make excuses. We came to win. Supercars can silence the fix. They can’t silence the facts.

We have been extraordinary today; we will be even more extraordinary tomorrow.
It was proven by Supercars own testing, so it's not just me on my soapbox.;)
 
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Didn't look unfair to me.
I haven’t watched the race series as much as you in these last few years and I saw clearly the disparity in pace. The Camaro, especially the T8 and Golding Camaros, were ridiculously quick in both conditions. The only way the Mustang had a chance was with the attrition. Up and down the straights was clear to see the speed difference.
Over the top, in the wet is where the Mustang looked like it could hang, but the Camaros were quicker on the power. I mean, I read the brief of what GM could have done to rectify the disparity they are aware of. By sheer “predictable luck”™️(I’m going to claim that ;) ) and a timed stiff arm to hold back Reynolds, Ford got that win.

In no way am I taking away how much I was entertained in those last 28 laps. However, it was definitely plain to see there was no parity during that race.
 
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If it's such a problem, why did a Mustang win?
Did you watch any of the race? I mean at all?

Because the two leading Camaro's had a coming together and let Payne through (edit: That's why I mentioned Bradbury). Then one still got back past Payne but had a five second penalty meaning he went back to third and Payne won. FFS, Payne didn't even cross the finish line first :banghead:
 
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While it certainly was exiting to watch (edit: well, the second half was, the first half was just demoralising), it was a Bradbury win for Payne/Tander because even in the wet is was embarrassing how easily the Camaro's where overtaking the Ford's down Conrod.
Supercars have to be extremely thankful for the weather happening when it did. Because it was shaping up to be another fairly boring one, with the T8 cars and #99 looking like they were going disappear into the distance. The Camaro's obviously still had that straight line advantage but I felt the rain masked it a little in the middle and fairly late into the race, as neither car was really reaching their ultimate top speed down straights. Again it's just a shame that this is still is an issue all these years into this generation of cars.

Also, I wonder if Brown will still think Brodie is having a whinge this time next year, when he's in a Mustang too and the defiicit is still there? Probably not. :sly:

And I'm just still gutted for the #2. They had the race in the palm of their hands before all the safety car chaos started. Not that I suppose it would have matted anyway with the engine drama at the end. Still sucks tho.
 
Did you watch any of the race? I mean at all?

Because the two leading Camaro's had a coming together and let Payne through (edit: That's why I mentioned Bradbury). Then one still got back past Payne but had a five second penalty meaning he went back to third and Payne won. FFS, Payne didn't even cross the finish line first :banghead:
So you're suggesting that Golding only got ahead because of parity instead of skill? The Camaros weren't leaving the Mustangs for dead so I fail to see your point.
 
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So you're suggesting that Golding only got ahead because of parity instead of skill? The Camaros weren't leaving the Mustangs for dead so I fail to see your point.
He certainly had an advantage down Conrod that Payne could not match... even in the wet. But your question was already answered, because the two leading Camaro's had an incident that let Payne win... it was a Bradbury win.
 
I’m happy that Reynolds and Holdsworth got on the Bathurst podium again, hopefully they can win next time. A shame that Tickford didn’t do any good but maybe they’ll have better luck next time.
 
About the parity discussion, the Lucky Dogs Pod done by Brown and Bush went into great detail about the testing and what the head of powertrains at Supercars... again Supercars suggested to have in place for Bathurst and Bathurst only. What was disappointing was the fact that the broadcast, like they did in Newcastle 23', try and paint the driver badly cause they made negative comments about the category. Not only that, but ignore the testing done by Supercars themselves, which is complete bs. I've been a GM fan forever, but i also want to see the best product possible, and it seems like we do a good job shooting ourselves in the foot.
 
He certainly had an advantage down Conrod that Payne could not match... even in the wet. But your question was already answered, because the two leading Camaro's had an incident that let Payne win... it was a Bradbury win.
Be a downer then. Let your cynicism take the joy out of a fantastic race and completely kill the mood.
 
Be a downer then. Let your cynicism take the joy out of a fantastic race and completely kill the mood.
:odd::rolleyes:
Parity?

While it certainly was exiting to watch (edit: well, the second half was, the first half was just demoralising)
Just remember that you missed the bit where it was just stupidly obvious how uneven the cars were. If it hadn't rained the race would've been another complete snooze-fest.

The second half, as I have already said, was exiting to watch albeit a bit top-end speed lopsided still.

I'm not sure how you couldn't notice how easily the Camaro's passed Payne down Conrod and that the only time Payne nearly made a pass down conrod was when he unsettled the Camaro out of Forrest's and then side drafted.

You seem unwilling to acknowledge that there was any sort of advantage to the Camaro at Bathurst at all... odd really, especially when it's a proven fact. Facts don't kill the mood, burying your head in the sand might though.
 
:odd::rolleyes:

Just remember that you missed the bit where it was just stupidly obvious how uneven the cars were. If it hadn't rained the race would've been another complete snooze-fest.

The second half, as I have already said, was exiting to watch albeit a bit top-end speed lopsided still.

I'm not sure how you couldn't notice how easily the Camaro's passed Payne down Conrod and that the only time Payne nearly made a pass down conrod was when he unsettled the Camaro out of Forrest's and then side drafted.

You seem unwilling to acknowledge that there was any sort of advantage to the Camaro at Bathurst at all... odd really, especially when it's a proven fact. Facts don't kill the mood, burying your head in the sand might though.
There wasn't an obvious advantage.
 
For those in the back. The point the race got interesting, is clear to see why(other than mentioned a few times already).

Yeah, once I knew Brown was making up spots just seems like it’s a two car race.

Both Skaife and Crompton just blatantly ignoring the closing speed of the Camaro's down Conrod into the chase is hilarious. Normally they would gush over how quick certain cars are in a straight line but today, crickets. Wonder why? 🤔 :sly:

:eek:

Edit:

Heavy rain on the radar. Expected in 10 minutes. Not sure how these teams are reading the weather.

Okay, now I don't know what to think. The race has completely changed. Its wide open.

Exactly. Nice to see different numbered cars although Erebus aren’t too far behind.
Sure, it was wide open, but mainly for the Camaros. It was Golding's race to lose. Which he did.
 
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A few things I noted from the Apex Hunters video was Scott saying how it was not ideal that the Ford engine and the GM engine were at opposite ends of their life cycle. I 100% agree on this, and it was something that was exactly the opposite when the AVL testing was done originally, when it was shown that the GM engine was at the bottom end of the acceptable parity rating and the Ford was at the top end (which could've been anything up to a two hp difference). I didn't agree with it then and I still think it's wrong now. Both should be mid range for all testing... end of!

Scott also said he knew there was an advantage but wasn't sure where, and I think that's a fair and honest statement from a driver's perspective. I recall last Bathurst I was of the same opinion as him that it wasn't so much engine related but that it seemed like the GM sucked up to the back of the Mustang far easier than vice versa. Supercars and DJR seem to think it's not that (having proved an engine deficiency) but we'll have to wait until next year (????🤞) to find out now.

He also mentioned that the Ford change added downforce. From everything I've heard on the telecast and read, that is not true. According to Adrian Burgess (who would've seen the numbers) it didn't add downforce, and he was critical that it didn't reduce drag (the drag part is refuted by others, but I'm not sure I trust Larko's tow-the-Supercars-line stance), but what it did do was shift the aero balance rearward. The rear wing angle was lessened by one degree to make sure it didn't add downforce and the upward and backward shift of the rear wing was supposed to reduce drag with no loss of downforce, and this setup had been run in the Windshear tunnel testing so it was a known quantity. It was also considered the sub-optimal downforce settings to what was previously run.

I do agree with Scott that DJR/Ford were banking on getting the engine upgrade as well as the aero change. That just makes sense to me but, I have just a hunch to go on, just like Scott.

There was also a comment on the validity of testing, but I think that was mainly because the GM teams brought up that the exhaust side wasn't also barometrically tested. Apparently to those in the know (and well above my paygrade :dopey:), barometric pressure has far more effect on an engines hp on the inlet side, which 100% makes sense to me.

I've also seen it mentioned elsewhere that barometric pressure is not a constant, not even at sea level, which is true... so good luck figuring that into the equation Supercars :sly::lol:
 
If I'm Toyota I'm pushing hard to get Supercars to release another REC. Have it be purely Gazoo sponsored and treat it as the car that former 86 series and Super 2 champs graduate into. Keeps BJR at four cars which he's obviously happy to run.


Also, three T8 cars on the grid again, eh? Great opportunity for Bates I suppose but...

Party Reaction GIF


:sly:
 
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If I'm Toyota I'm pushing hard to get Supercars to release another REC. Have it be purely Gazoo sponsored and treat it as the car that former 86 series and Super 2 champs graduate into. Keeps BJR at four cars which he's obviously happy to run.
That is an absolutely brilliant idea 👏👏👏

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On a side note, I've had time to go back and find my post about last season regarding my earlier statement about agreeing with one of Scott's observation, but last year.
The difference I think I've been noticing hasn't been top end per se, because it seems pretty even when the cars run by themselves (or side by side), but the Camaro seems to be able to suck up to the back of the Mustang in the slipstream really, really well and it doesn't seem to work at all the other way round.

Any thoughts?

And on another note, Roland's back :yuck:
 
That is an absolutely brilliant idea 👏👏👏
Think Toyota talked about wanting there to be a direct pathway for drivers from the 86 series to the main game. Maybe there's a Super 2 team willing to step up, to run the REC, with BJR looking after the car. Either way it would give another young guy an opportunity and also avoids the awkward situation of BJR and SCT sharing a pit.
And on another note, Roland's back :yuck:
Retirement went well, I see.

At least we'll get to see who holds more sway now. Roland or T8. :lol:
 
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