Air restrictor breaks GT5 multiplayer

[arora]

In case no one has figured it out yet (although Ghost Rydor explained it a while ago), this is my guess as to what's going on.

There was nothing to figure out.

The power limiter seems to act more like some kind of electronic limiter rather than an actual air restrictor.

Hence PD's name "Engine Power Limiter"

Has anyone seen a dyno of an air restricted engine vs. it's normal state? Pretty much the engine produces peak torque and almost maximum power at a relatively low RPM, and from there to the rev limiter the torque drops and the power does not increase much.

 

[rennsport27]

I think there's a lot of trolling going on in this thread. Also, no offense to the OP, but do you really need to be so cryptic about your complaining and over exaggeration? No, the PP system is not perfect, but I really don't see any huge flaws with it either. No, not all cars will be competitive at a given PP, but I don't see any way to flat out exploit it either. This isn't a Stage 7 or Nurb 24 hour pandemic. Sounds like a bunch of voodoo and paranoia to me.

 

[Ghost Rydor]

I think there's a lot of trolling going on in this thread. Also, no offense to the OP, but do you really need to be so cryptic about your complaining and over exaggeration? No, the PP system is not perfect, but I really don't see any huge flaws with it either. No, not all cars will be competitive at a given PP, but I don't see any way to flat out exploit it either. This isn't a Stage 7 or Nurb 24 hour pandemic. Sounds like a bunch of voodoo and paranoia to me.

I'm sorry now that i didn't just lay it down on the line in my first post but I wanted to see if anyone already knew what I was talking about.
And yes thanks to a bit trolling you could be forgiven for thinking this was a complaint thread when really its a solution help people out thread. The air restrictor made it harder to have evenly matched cars but is actually the only reason why using a double reg works and now actually gives us the tool to have much closer races with more random cars then was ever possible before.

This world that you guys are still living in where you think some cars will never be competitive may have once been the case but its not the reality that I'm living in anymore. Using my system any car can be competitive, thats all I'm offering. Whats not to like about that?

 

[Machate-man]

Here's the best answer:

1. Get better cars
2. restrict according to a car that suits you best, while being best of class
3. Accept the fact that there is always something faster than you (even I admit that!)
4. Try 1-make racing (Restrictions> open garage>pic car of choice>pick tyre restriction>Pick Assist restriction>Start race!)

 

[GTOne2Three]

This is why we need deeper options for server hosting. And like Forza 3 has, a quick upgrade or downgrade, that way the game sets up your car's parts to server standards.

 

[Bigbazz]

This is the most ridiculous thread i have ever seen... this week. (lots of ridiculous threads here!)

The Ford GT40 is a road car, a real road car, not a racing car with indicators, just your run of the mill american supercar, like the ZR1 or the Viper ACR.

 

[NK]

This is the most ridiculous thread i have ever seen... this week. (lots of ridiculous threads here!)

The Ford GT40 is a road car, a real road car, not a racing car with indicators, just your run of the mill american supercar, like the ZR1 or the Viper ACR.

I couldn't agree more if I was entering a how-much-do-you-agree-with-something competition...

There are many dummies spat out of prams these days, but the reasoning behind them (the expulsion of aforementioned dummies) gets more bewildering by the day.

With any luck, this thread is nearing the end...

 

[arora]

With any luck, this thread is nearing the end...

NNNOOOOooooooooo

 

[ssyd780]

If you had said "restrictor plate" instead of "air restrictor" I would have known exactly what you were talking about. I thought you were complaining about people taking high downforce race cars into HP/weight limited rooms (as opposed to PP limited) until I read more of the thread.

I'm guilty of this but I don't see it as an exploit. Just a limitation of the game. The fact is there are a lot of cars I'd like to run in some of the lower PP races that I'm not going to limit myself from using because of a lack of foresight in the implementation of the engine restrictor.

 

[NjLowrider]

I'm upset you can't tune all jgtc cars down back to stock using limiter, and have a fair race!

 

[GTP_roadrunner]

This is the most ridiculous thread i have ever seen... this week. (lots of ridiculous threads here!)

The Ford GT40 is a road car, a real road car, not a racing car with indicators, just your run of the mill american supercar, like the ZR1 or the Viper ACR.

Moeoeoeop...your wrong. The GT40 is and always WILL BE a racecar. You surely meant the actual GT, wich undoubtedly is a roadcar, actually a very fast one

/nitpicking-mode off...

 

[Culkin]

Unfortunately your argument about not been able to use rally cars in your server is a null and void one as rally cars are as road legal as the tuned road cars you do use so you might want to rethink your arguments!

 

[Bigbazz]

Moeoeoeop...your wrong. The GT40 is and always WILL BE a racecar. You surely meant the actual GT, wich undoubtedly is a roadcar, actually a very fast one

/nitpicking-mode off...

Aye, was a typo, the Ford GT is what i meant, just so used to talking about the GT40.

 

[arora]

Unfortunately your argument about not been able to use rally cars in your server is a null and void one as rally cars are as road legal as the tuned road cars you do use so you might want to rethink your arguments!

Correct me if I'm wrong but is it not sometimes the case that the road going versions of rally cars have too much power for the series so restrictor plates are used?

 

[Leicht]

So....does IS-F, M5, M3, E55, C63, RS6, Evo X, Subaru WRX consider as an everyday production cars? Because they have the horsepower of a supercar-alike and and they are base on their slower counterparts i.e IS-F from IS300, M3 from 335i and can bring 4 people in comfort.

What about F40? Do you ban that? Because I'm sure it's not homologated

 

[marshy10156]

So....does IS-F, M5, M3, E55, C63, RS6, Evo X, Subaru WRX consider as an everyday production cars? Because they have the horsepower of a supercar-alike and and they are base on their slower counterparts i.e IS-F from IS300, M3 from 335i and can bring 4 people in comfort.

What about F40? Do you ban that? Because I'm sure it's not homologated

HAHA the Ferrari F40 is homologated as it's a road car to start with. Homologated cars are cars that are produced to be sold to the public that are based on racing car of the same name/model

 

[Exorcet]

This world that you guys are still living in where you think some cars will never be competitive may have once been the case but its not the reality that I'm living in anymore. Using my system any car can be competitive, thats all I'm offering. Whats not to like about that?

Who was that aimed at? PP has made it so that every car is competitive. Flawless it's not, but it handles most issues like the R390 and 400 hp Veyron that you're talking about. The R390 was one of the cars that broke the hp/weight system. But it doesn't break the PP system.

I don't think anyone here was thinking that a bunch of cars are uncompetitive. Not since PP was added.

 

[Minty]

Pretty much dead on, except for the bold IMO. Kicking for no reason doesn't make much sense to me, but whatever.

What I meant when I said that was that he doesn't need to explain why he want's people to change their cars in great detail. He should ask them to using something that he considers fair, and if they disagree and don't change, then just kick them, no reason to try to convince them.

 

[jaycee_xr3]

Few nights ago I has my first online experiences, I has enjoyed rooms with clear rules (i.e. PPR fixed and car type suggested) with very clean drivers, really was a great discover to me, but also find rooms with PPR flawed extreme cars against slow shoeboxes and was not funny... I thinks that is our decission stay or not in that rooms...

 

[Culkin]

Correct me if I'm wrong but is it not sometimes the case that the road going versions of rally cars have too much power for the series so restrictor plates are used?

You would be correct believe it happen in the BTCC too with Volvo's 850 T5's been restricted and Audi's A4's been restricted AND having ballast added

 

[grenadeshark]

I have done extensive testing with the PP system and min/maxing. The conclusions I have come to is that in some cars, you will see a benefit by getting every mod then backtuning it to the PP you want to race at.

In other cars, you will basically no difference at all. The biggest problem with PP is it doesn't seem to account for hp/tq curve very well.

I can tune the same car multiple different ways to the same PP level, but get various levels of acceleration due to the HP/TQ curves. I actually like this personally because spending more time with a car to get that perfect HP/TQ curve for your PP level is very satisfying and produces favorable results.

Just last night I proved on one of my cars that all turbo upgrades regardless of size (small,medium,large) were no good for my 450pp car compared to just running the stock turbo. This was backed up with tons of test runs.

That same car though, performs better when fully modified with aftermarket parts (muffler,intake, etc) and backtuned then it does with just stock fully tuned. Again, most of this equates back to the HP/TQ curves. Generally when modding in this game, mods produce better HP/TQ curves then the stock engine at similar PP levels.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

This world that you guys are still living in where you think some cars will never be competitive may have once been the case but its not the reality that I'm living in anymore. Using my system any car can be competitive, thats all I'm offering. Whats not to like about that?

Some cars in the game just won't be competitive at a certain PP or P/W ratio, ever. Look at Prologue - the Elise and Clio cleaned up at pretty much any level, the RX-8 and NSX-R being the other main choices. Cars tuned to the same PP as these cars never were as competitive. It happens.

Someone earlier in this thread touched on what I did earlier; while GT might not model very intricate aerodynamics, it does seem to have some basic values for each car. Tuning a brick to the same power and weight as something more slippery in the air shows that the latter car will hit higher top speeds on a given straight. That was all I meant with that.

The PP system seems to take into account the age of a car as well (the more primitive tech could count as a handicap), but it still favours new cars. I have an Alfa Giulia GTA that has a higher PP rating than one of my moderately-tuned Elises, and yet it can never match the times of the newer car. Some cars just have a better base to work with, and while this dual-regulation plan might minimize that, to pretend it makes every possible car competitive is a silly idea.

 

[grenadeshark]

Some cars in the game just won't be competitive at a certain PP or P/W ratio, ever. Look at Prologue - the Elise and Clio cleaned up at pretty much any level, the RX-8 and NSX-R being the other main choices. Cars tuned to the same PP as these cars never were as competitive. It happens.

Someone earlier in this thread touched on what I did earlier; while GT might not model very intricate aerodynamics, it does seem to have some basic values for each car. Tuning a brick to the same power and weight as something more slippery in the air shows that the latter car will hit higher top speeds on a given straight. That was all I meant with that.

The PP system seems to take into account the age of a car as well (the more primitive tech could count as a handicap), but it still favours new cars. I have an Alfa Giulia GTA that has a higher PP rating than one of my moderately-tuned Elises, and yet it can never match the times of the newer car. Some cars just have a better base to work with, and while this dual-regulation plan might minimize that, to pretend it makes every possible car competitive is a silly idea.

I think a lot of peoples definition of competitive is very different. I consider a car competitive if fully tuned and on a track it can be competitive on, it is within 1-3 seconds of a faster lap time by the same person in another competitive car.

Ex. Laguna Seca is not the best track to test your Dodge Ram on compared to an elise. It wouldn't work in real life, so why should it in game?

Now, compare that same Ram to the Elise on Daytona road course and its a whole nother story.

Yes, some cars won't be competitive on some tracks regardless of PP level. But other cars won't as well.

It's the same reason a caterham seven outperforms 90% of the vehicles tested on the top gear test track. On a more open track with higher banks and more speed, it would get destroyed. But on that track, its amazing.

 

[arora]

Check this from 4 min and on...

 

[Ghost Rydor]

Some cars in the game just won't be competitive at a certain PP or P/W ratio, ever. Look at Prologue - the Elise and Clio cleaned up at pretty much any level, the RX-8 and NSX-R being the other main choices. Cars tuned to the same PP as these cars never were as competitive. It happens.

Someone earlier in this thread touched on what I did earlier; while GT might not model very intricate aerodynamics, it does seem to have some basic values for each car. Tuning a brick to the same power and weight as something more slippery in the air shows that the latter car will hit higher top speeds on a given straight. That was all I meant with that.

The PP system seems to take into account the age of a car as well (the more primitive tech could count as a handicap), but it still favours new cars. I have an Alfa Giulia GTA that has a higher PP rating than one of my moderately-tuned Elises, and yet it can never match the times of the newer car. Some cars just have a better base to work with, and while this dual-regulation plan might minimize that, to pretend it makes every possible car competitive is a silly idea.

I think it s great all you guys have your opinions without actually trying out what I have suggested first. It isn't an "idea" I have been doing it for weeks, it isn't so much a theory as it is a fact.
I'm sure that since we are all used to broken wonky games that something like this sounds to good to be true so everyone just dismisses it as some kind of scam or thinks I don't know what I'm talking about.
Your argument on whether all cars can truly be evened out hinges on whether or not drag coeffiecents are calculated in the game. Which I don't believe they are. And even if they were they would most likely have that incorporated into their PP, which gets adjusted for using my dual regs anyway.
Yes pretending is silly, thats why I don't. Just because most people are full of $hit does not mean everyone is.
Let me know when you guys have pulled your heads out of the ground.

You got to understand that its like a formula, you enter the values you get the same product. Any cars strengths and weakness are adjusted either because they have to enter a car with lower PP or lower hp, and remember the guy who can only have say 150hp in a 200hp race doesn't have the same 150 as me. He has alot more torque spread throughout his rpm. Calculated against his PP our cars will have identical handling and acceleration save for gearing, drivetrain and suspension tunings.

 

[arora]

I think it s great all you guys have your opinions without actually trying out what I have suggested first. It isn't an "idea" I have been doing it for weeks, it isn't so much a theory as it is a fact..

It is an idea, an idea for how you think online races should be regulated.

It is a fact that you not only like your regulations and pp/hp restrictions, you are also demanding that others use them.

I'm sure that since we are all used to broken wonky games that something like this sounds to good to be true so everyone just dismisses it as some kind of scam or thinks I don't know what I'm talking about.

It does not sound to good to be true at all, it sounds like you are playing the game, just as the rest of us are doing.

Just because most people are full of $hit does not mean everyone is.
Let me know when you guys have pulled your heads out of the ground.

O.K., I've pulled my head out of the ground 👍

You got to understand that its like a formula, you enter the values you get the same product. Any cars strengths and weakness are adjusted either because they have to enter a car with lower PP or lower hp, and remember the guy who can only have say 150hp in a 200hp race doesn't have the same 150 as me. He has alot more torque spread throughout his rpm. Calculated against his PP our cars will have identical handling and acceleration save for gearing, drivetrain and suspension tunings.

I just have to hand it to you you are the master of online regulation formulas.

 

[Ghost Rydor]

Its a pretty good reflection of the gaming community that most the posts in this thread are from people starting to feel butt hurt at the idea that they might not be able to enter someones lobby and deliberately enter a superior car that allows them to win unchallenged.
I've seen that before as well. Noobs play a game as long as there is an exploit they can beat people with. If its ever patched they move on to the next game with holes in it.

 

[arora]

Its a pretty good reflection of the gaming community that most the posts in this thread are from people starting to feel butt hurt at the idea that they might not be able to enter someones lobby and deliberately enter a superior car that allows them to win unchallenged.
I've seen that before as well. Noobs play a game as long as there is an exploit they can beat people with. If its ever patched they move on to the next game with holes in it.

Looks like your are the one butt hurt, maybe because nobody is entering your lobbies. Who are these noobs you speak of?

 

[Culkin]

Wow with your attitude im glad ive avoided your server and stuck to the well known ones....000.572 between 1st and 5th with power limiter active 14 car server VS your ill tune my car and you match it/draw less or get out server...think Ill stay where its fun but happy recruiting!

 

[juwlzx5]

Fact of life is, if you got a faster car your gonna win. The reason why there are such few sports cars these days is because of natural selection. So really if you want to win a race, you gotta use the proper car, and it ain't gonna be some soap box that you modded like a mad man. Its gonna be the most superior car in its class. In reality its impossible to have a neck and neck race even with proper regulations. In my opinion a better system of grouping cars would be cost of the car. Cause isn't that what we see in our daily lives all the time?