Alternative Fuel Sources

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Australia
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StigBelcherStyle
Dear Mr Yamauchi,

As the automotive industry expands many new sources of power are being implemented to out source the internal combustion engine will any of these new power sources be implemented into the future Gran Turismo Games. For example some of the new power sources are as listed below
These are just a few alternative power sources the automotive industries are looking into using in there up-coming models, As gran Turismo is a real driving simulator I understand that some of these alternative sources are harder to model than others?

Kind Regards

StigBelcherStyl
 
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solar-cars.jpg
 
Watch this video (which has some holes in it, I know), and read the "about" for how I answered the holes. Then read the comments for an explanation of possibilities. We don't need petroleum..... ;)

 
@TRLWNC7396 regarding the whole capturing heat thing. Coal, natural gas and nuclear power are all capturing heat. Basically you just boil water and spin turbines with the steam. It seems to be the most efficient way to capture heat energy and turn it into power. Just a thought.
 
There is far more to it than that. There are two books linked from the comments. (Over 350 pages, but a lot of pictures, so they are not a terribly long read.) But, it's about on-demand electrolysis and optimizing engine efficiency. Maximizing the engine efficiency is one thing. Finding other ways to power the engine is a whole other ball-game! :)

Don't forget that methane cometh from decomposition... ;)
 
There is far more to it than that. There are two books linked from the comments. (Over 350 pages, but a lot of pictures, so they are not a terribly long read.) But, it's about on-demand electrolysis and optimizing engine efficiency. Maximizing the engine efficiency is one thing. Finding other ways to power the engine is a whole other ball-game! :)

Don't forget that methane cometh from decomposition... ;)
Beyond the Thunderdome eh?
 
Precisely. You culture a septic system (pump air in to keep the bacteria fed, and wrap the tank in the exhaust pipe for temperature), and have the electrolysed (sp?) water adding to the power, and there is no need for petroleum. Admittedly, this would be a stand-alone generator, and you would have to charge an electric car with this system, but.... Not free, but self-paying power! It would have to run 24/7, so anything you don't use, you sell!

Plus, if we use the other options mentioned in the video for conserving and using power to its maximum, and you don't waste!

Pluses on ALL sides! :)
 
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Air.... wow.... can it travel 1 mile? Not joking, because that's a LOT of volume to travel any serious distance!
 
Current Diesel Cars in GT6

The cars shown in the list below display the current diesel cars that are included it GT6. As most of them are Racecars will we be receiving any more diesel cars in the near future?

Audi R10 TDi, 2006
Audi R10 TDi Stealth Model, 2006
Audi R18 Prototype, 2011
Audi R18 TDi 15th Aniversary Edition, 2011
Audi R18 TDi (Audi Sports team Joest), 2011
BMW 120d, 2004
Jay Leno Tank Car, 2003 (?Diesel?)
Mazda KUSABI, 2003 (?Diesel?)
Peugeot HDi FAP Base Model, 2010
Peugeot HDi FAP - Team Oreca Matmut, 2010
Peugeot HDi FAP - Team Peugeot Total, 2010
 
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Current Electric Cars in GT6

The cars shown in the list below display the current Electric cars that are included it GT6. As there are many new competitors in the market currently we could expand this group enough to have an Eco-Event. Currently the Lunar Roving Vehicle LRV-001, 1971 & the Nissan Leaf G (GT Academy Car), 20?? is not available to purchase in carear mode.

Citroën GT by Citroën Concept, 2008
Fisker Karma EcoSport, 2012
Lunar Roving Vehicle LRV-001, 1971
Mitsubishi i-MiEV ,2009
Nissan Leaf G, 2011
Nissan Leaf G (GT Academy Car) ,20??
Tajima Monster Sport E-RUNNER Pikes Peak Special ,2012
Tesla Motors Model S Signature Performance, 2012
Tesla Morors Model S Signature Performance (15th Anniversary Edition), 2012
Tesla Motors Tesla Roadster, 2008
 
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HYDROGEN CARS

Cars on this list could be future possibilities for the future GT7 Game or GT6 updates. All cars are listed into their competing Categories. There are no current Hydrogen cars currently in GT6.

Everyday - Production Car
BMW 7-Series (F02) 760h "Hydrogen 7", 20??
Honda FCX Clarity, 2009
Toyota Mirai, 2015

Everyday - Production SUV
Hyundai Santa Fe FCEV (Gen 1), 2001
Hyundai Tucson ix35 FCEV (Gen 2), 2005
Hyundai ix35 FCEV (Gen 3), 2009
Hyundai ix35 FCEV (Gen 4), 2013

Concept Cars
BMW i8 Hydrogen Fuel Cell, 2015
GM Electrovan, 1966
Honda FCEV, 2015
Mercedes-Benz F-Cell Roadster, 2009
Suzuki MR Wagon FCV, 2003
Suzuki Wagon-R FCV, 2004
Toyota Motor Triathlon Race Car, 2004
Volkswagen Space UP! Blue, 2007
 
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ELECTRIC CARS

The cars shown in the Bold Bellow are cars already included in GT6, All aditional cars on list could be future possibilities for the future GT7 Game or GT6 updates. All cars are listed into their competing Categories. Please note the Nissan Leaf academy car and the Lunar Roving Vehicle are not accessable to purchase in Career mode.

Historic - <1939
Baker Electric, 1909
Bersey Electric Cab, 1897
Detroit Electric, 1915
Flocker Elektrowagen, 1888
Ford Model T Electric, 1914
Pope Waverley Electric (Chelsea), 1906
Pope Waverley Electric (Tonneau), 1906
Thomas Parker, 1884

Vintage - 1940>1959
Bowker Electric Car, 1942
Henney Kilowatt 36v, 1959
Nissan Tama, 1947
Peugeot VLV, 1942

Vintage - 1960>1989
AMC Amitron, 1967
BMW 1602 Electro-Antrieb (E10), 1972
BMW 325ix Elektro-Antrieb (E30), 1987
Chevrolet Electrovair II, 1966
Chrysler ETV-1, 1979
Dodge Electrica, 1980
Enfield 8000, 1970
Ford Comuta, 1967
Henney Kilowatt 72v, 1960
Mini El (Gen 1), 1987
Sebring Citicar, 1977
Volvo Electric Car, 1977
Zagato Zele, 1976

Everyday - 1990>2005
City El (Gen 2), 1997
GM EV1, 1996
Honda EV Plus, 1997
Mini El (Gen 2), 1992
Renault ZOOM Concept, 1992

Everyday - 2006>2013
BMW Active E, 2012
Chevrolet Spark EV, 2013
Citroën C-Zero, 2011
Fiat 500e (Elettra), 2013
Ford Focus Electric, 2013
Honda EV-N Concept, 2009
Mini E, 2009
Mitsubishi i-MiEV, 2009
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution Miev, 2005
Nissan Leaf G, 2011
Nissan Leaf G (GT Academy Car), 2011

Peugeot Ion, 2011
Pininfarina-Bolloré BO Concept, 2008
Renault Zoe, 2012
Scion IQ EV, 2013
Smart Fortwo ED (Electric Drive), 2011
Smart Fortwo ED (Electric Drive), 2013
Toyota 86 EV, 2012
Toyota IQ EV, 2013
Volkswagen e-Up!, 2013

Everyday - 2014>On
BMW i3, 2015
Honda Fit EV, 2014
Hyundai Ioniq EV, 2018
Kia Soul EV, 2015
Nissan Leaf 80th Special, 2014
Nissan Leaf (Gen. 2), 2018
Tesla Model 3, 2018
Volkswagen e-Golf, 2015

Light Vehicles, Pickups & Utes
Mitsubishi MiniCab MiEV, 2011
Navistar International E-Star, 2010
Nissan Leaf Pickup Truck (Sparky), 2014
Renault Kangoo Maxi Z.E, 2018
SIM-DRIVE Sim-Hal, 2014
Volkswagen (T2) Elektro-Transporter, 1978
Zap Xterra Truck, 2008

SUV's
Audi e-tron SUV, 2019
Bollinger B1, 2019
Jaguar I-Pace EV400, 2018
Mercedes-Benz EQC SUV, 2019
Tesla Motors Model X, 2015
Toyota RAV4 EV (Gen 1), 1997
Toyota RAV4 EV (Gen 2), 2013

Heavy Vehicles, Buses & Trucks
All-Electric Drayage truck (Balqon)
Cummins Aeos Electric Truck, 2019
Pottera Ecoliner, 2012
Tesla Semi, 2019

Luxury Sedans, Coupes
Mercedes-Benz B-Class Electric Drive, 2013
NVL Quant, 2010
Rolls-Royce 102EX, 2011
Saleen Tesla Foursixteen, 2014

Tesla Motors Model S P85D, 2014
Tesla Motors Model S Signature Performance, 2012
Tesla Motors Model S Signature Performance (15th Anniversary Edition), 2012


Sportscars
Artega SE, 2011
Audi R8 e-Tron, 2014
Delorean DMC-EV, 2013
Detroit Electric SP:01, 2013
Dodge Circuit EV, 2009
Exagon Furtive-eGT, 2012
Lexus GS400 Concept (Yr 2054), 2002
Lightning GT, 2008
Mercedes SLS AMG E-Drive, 2012
Renault DeZir, 2010
Renovo Coupe, 2015
RUF e Greenster Concept, 2009
Signal Kustom EV1, 2011
TEEWAVE AR.1, 2011
Tesla Motors Tesla Roadster, 2008
Tesla Motors Tesla Roadster 2.5, 2011
Tommykaira ZZ EV, 2013
Venturi Fetish, 2008
Venturi Volage Concept, 2011

Supercars
Citroën GT by Citroën Concept, 2008

Rimac Concept One, 2011
Rimac C2, 2018
SSC Ultimate Aero EV, 2009
Tesla Roadster 2.0, 2020

Racecars
Citroën Survolt, 2010
Formula E electric E-11, 2012
Formulec EF01, 2011
Honda EV Plus Type R Pikes Peak, 1997
Kleenspeed EV-X11, 2011
Lola Drayson B12/69E, 2013
Nismo Leaf Zero Emission, 2011
Nismo Zeod LMP, 2013
Quimera AEFT01, 2011
Spark-Renault SRT 01E Formula E, 2014
Tajima Monster Sport E-RUNNER Pikes Peak Special, 2012
Toyota EV P002 Pikes Peak, 2013

Quadricycles & Open Wheelers
G-Wiz (REVAi), 2008
Renault Twizy, 2014
Renault Twizy RS F1, 2013
Tazzari EM1 Citysport, 2013
Volkswagen Nils, 2012

Other
Aptera TYP-1, 2007
Aptera TYP-2, 2008
Commuter Cars Tango T600, 2008
Fisker Karma EcoSport, 2012
Lunar Roving Vehicle LRV-001, 1971

Nike One, 2022
Peel P50 EV, 2010
Top Gear Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust, 2009
Toyota Camatte, 2013
Venturi Astrolab Concept, 2006
 
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STEAM CARS

Cars on this list could be future possibilities for the future GT7 Game or GT6 updates. All cars are listed into their competing Categories. There are no current steam cars currently in GT6.

Steam Cars - <1949
Buick F Type, 1909
Doble Series D-2 Steam Car, 1921
Doble Series E-11 Steam Car, 1924
Doble Series E-14 Steam Car, 1924
Doble Series E-18 Steam Car, 1925
Doble Series E-20 Steam Special, 1925
Foster Steam Car, 1901
Lane 15 Hp Steam Car, 1909
Locomobile 7.5 Hp Steam Car, 1899
Locomobile 10 Hp Steam Car, 1902
Locomobile Style 2 Steam Car, 1900
Stanley 10 Hp 606 Roadster, 1914
Stanley 20 Hp Model 76, 1913
Stanley Steam Car, 1906
Stanley Steam Car Model 607, 1914
Stanley Steam Car Model 750, 1924
Stanley Steamer, 1922
Stanley Steamer 735 (Woods Body), 1920
Toledo Steam Car, 1902
White Steam Car 20 Hp, 1907
White Steam Car 30 Hp, 1907
White Steam Car 40 Hp, 1909
White Steam Car Model 0-0, 1910
White Steam Car Model '00' 20 Hp, 1910

Steam Cars - 1950>1974
Barrett Steam Car, 1967
Ford Falcon Steam Car, 1963
General Motors SE101, 1969
General Motors SE124, 1969
Saab Project ULF car, 1974
SPS Dutcher, 1974
Vagg Steam Car, 1962
Williams Steam Roadster, 1961

Steam Cars - 1975>
Reliant Fox Steam Pickup, 1984
Volkswagen EZEE03, 1996

Vintage Racers
Stanley Steamer Vanderbilt Cup Racer, 1906

Buses & Heavy Vehicles
Advance Steam Traction Engine, 1906
Harris Aerodynamic Steam car, 1936

Special Cars & World Record Attempt Cars
Cugnots Steam Carriage, 1771
Fastest Kettle in the World, 2009
 
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AIR POWERED CARS

Cars on this list could be future possibilities for the future GT7 Game or GT6 updates. All cars are listed into their competing Categories. There are no current AIR POWERED cars currently in GT6.

Vintage Cars
Compressed Air Motor Car, 1932

Production Cars
MDI/Tata Mini-CAT, 2007
MDI/Tata OneCAT, 2008
Tata Airpod, 2012

Concept Cars
EngineAir Car, 2004
Honda Air, 2010
MDI/Tata Air Car, 2008

Other
5th Grader Air Car, 2008
EngineAir Go Kart, 2004
 
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Nice thread, great summaries of the options and specific implementations! 👍

Use a smaller engine powered by on-demand electrolysis, and... well, get 2000 mpg (of water!)

So you put electrical energy (286 kJ/mol) in to split the water, then recover less than one third (thermal efficiency) of the heat of combustion (286 kJ/mol) in the internal combustion engine as work. Some of that work needs to be used to split the water, and the rest to power the car.

So there's a 2/3 energy deficit already before factoring in electrical losses and leakage etc. I'm always intrigued as to how people make those systems "work", and how they manage to record improvements in economy when they're only wasting electrical energy in splitting the water and so there should be a deterioration in economy at the point of use!

I'm looking forward to hemp diesel fuel most of all. I can't get down with electric or solar power. I need to burn SOMETHING. At least hemp is 100% biodegradable and sustainable, unlike petrol.

Oh and check this out...


In my opinion we should not be using arable land purely for producing fuel (to burn e.g. in cars and power stations etc.). There are plenty of waste streams we could be using instead - water treatment plants, for instance. Although, I haven't fully reckoned on where that organic matter actually comes from and where it goes afterwards, and then it all gets a bit circular when you factor in "carbon capture" at power stations, yielding a waste stream...

You're effectively relying on the photosynthetic power of plants, terrestrial or aquatic - that's your effective peak global power, because it's your only input (excluding weather). I.e., ignoring the residual warmth of the Earth's core, the only power we can rely on is the sun (ultimately), and conversions of that power - whatever sun energy our planet captures is the limit to our working potential. Argh, entropy! :scared:
Steam would be awesome just for the sounds. The whistles and the chugging of the engine.

It's actually really easy to get cool steam sounds.
A good fake is to just colour white / pink noise according to the Helmholtz resonant frequency of the cylinder / exhaust combination (it's not constant through a cycle).

Steam cars in GT would be awesome, and I suspect the new sound method would apply just as well to them. :D
I don't know how you'd assign the new controls for the stoker, boiler, steam chest etc. though, and presumably we won't have to wait for them to get up to pressure. :dopey:
 
Nice thread, great summaries of the options and specific implementations! 👍



So you put electrical energy (286 kJ/mol) in to split the water, then recover less than one third (thermal efficiency) of the heat of combustion (286 kJ/mol) in the internal combustion engine as work. Some of that work needs to be used to split the water, and the rest to power the car.

So there's a 2/3 energy deficit already before factoring in electrical losses and leakage etc. I'm always intrigued as to how people make those systems "work", and how they manage to record improvements in economy when they're only wasting electrical energy in splitting the water and so there should be a deterioration in economy at the point of use!

:dopey:

Yeah, I've been talking with someone about this, and have realized I need to explore the reality of exactly what you are saying here. We'll see.... If I can make the time..... ;)

But, yeah, steam cars could be very interesting. In one lap races at Tsukuba.... ;) (yeah, they've gone further, but...... ;) )
 
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