Anyone planning to drop GT5?

[another_jakhole]

The mods must be enjoying and laughing at people discussing this thread. I would to

The mods aren't THAT soulless. joking joking

The mods were picked for a reason. They're all sensible.

It's Gran Turismo vs Dark Souls here. I'll wax and wane between the two in the upcoming weeks.

By the way this thread is bigger than it should be.

Understatement of the year!! woooo!!hoo! haha

It's been exactly 2 weeks since the start of this thread.

 

[CSLACR]

I think this should be your easiest thing to assume, as any information received is for knowledge sake.

It's not just knowledge sake

Do you understand where the confusion comes in?

Right, so what you're saying is FM is / wasn't a copy of GT because of some list that someone else put up. Yet now you're stating that they made a game "similar in nature, but better" (so, they copied the formula - fine, it happens all the time; no skin off my nose) and hence is a copy? Which is it? It seems like you're just trying to win a petty argument, rather than be pragmatic about it and concede the facts.

FM was a copy of GT (any negative connotation is purely in your own mind); in the same vein, that doesn't make GT a copy of NFS, irrespective of what someone's "list" says. Would you agree?

I don't agree FM is a copy, no. I believe it's a game made with a strong influence from the GT series.
I hear many musicians talk about their inspirations, but just because a guitarist plays solos doesn't mean he's copying every guitarist that played solos before him.
I really think the "Beatles vs Rolling Stones" puts it best.
Nobody in their right mind will stand here today arguing the Stones were a copy or rip-off of the Beatles, will they?

I'm pretty sure it was T-D that was implying it was actually plagiarism rather than producing a similar game.

I don't see how CSLACR could make his point any clearer or how many people can't understand his point.

It's a very strange world.

So it's not just me.

T-D was basically claiming everything Microsoft does is plagiarism and that that is proof FM also at least started the same way.
MS credibility aside, I have to look at all the facts I have in hand, and make a separate decision regarding this particular case, and what I see, is FM being created and inspired by GT5, which is very different from a copy.
Similar? Yes.
Copy? No.

 

[GTShadowKing]

GT and Forza are very similar y many reasons but the mains are these:
1- Both games are software that is written in discs
2- Those discs are putted in a box
3- The box that contains the discs also contains a little manual
4- The boxes that contains the discs and the manuals have a cover art
So, very similar.
It's very late, I need to sleep, my head is snipping with so many similarities.

 

[GTOne2Three]

It brought us day to night time change and 1031 cars.

What more do I want?

I'm guessing you'd want 800 cars that arent from the PS2 retirement home and deep customization. And a more functional online system.

 

[mastretta_mx]

T-D was basically claiming everything Microsoft does is plagiarism and that that is proof FM also at least started the same way.
MS credibility aside, I have to look at all the facts I have in hand, and make a separate decision regarding this particular case, and what I see, is FM being created and inspired by GT5, which is very different from a copy.
Similar? Yes.
Copy? No.

But What can you say from the rewind option from GRID and now the motion blur and cockpit movement suspiciously similar to the one from Shift 2?

Maybe is true, they are not copying, but is clear than they are taking a lot ofconcepts from others games

Livery editor from NFS Undeground, Cockpit view from shift, rewind mode from GRID, Gameplay style from GT; at this point the only one innovating thing in Forza is Autovista. Obviously is not a crime, but they can't claim being an Innovative game studio

 

[oldstyle81]

Yes, GT5 quit being fun like a week after it was released. In my opinion it was a complete and massive failure.

 

[Tenacious D]

But you got to give credit where credit is due. Forza has long surpassed the status of just being a copy of the GT series. Sure its still a game similar to GT, but the overall approach has changed through the last two installments.

I'm not sure about that. What overall approach is that, which is so different? You still start out, as with Gran Turismo, with 20,000 credits or so to buy a compact car to start racing in. The only real differences which I see in Forza are the livery editor, the storefront/auction house, engine and drivetrain swaps, and... maybe that's it.

I'll give (full) credit to Forza 4 when I get it and it doesn't blow up somewhere, like the previous three did. (erm... sounding a bit too crass here)

T-D was basically claiming everything Microsoft does is plagiarism and that that is proof FM also at least started the same way.

Well, not everything, or half their budget would be tied up in court costs, says the guy on ignore. Really showed me, huh.

But it's hard to get around the shenanigans MS pulled with a number of businesses and corporations. Apple finally made OSX functionality so different that MS would quit copying so much of their GUI. There's the whole mocking of PS3's built in hard drive and connectivity, including HDMI, saying no one will really use it in big numbers for years. We do, and within a year the 360 starts looking a lot like the PS3 in functionality. There's the Mii-ripoff avatard. There's even Forza 4's HUD looking like Shift's, and there's matretta's list. Microsoft just doesn't do "original" much at all.

 

[MoGoSpeed]

Do you understand where the confusion comes in?
.

No confusion. You just don't understand.

I still didn't say it was just for knowledge's sake in my reply, but giving you the idea that information recieved, regardless is always for knowledge sake.

But with my first statement you quote, it's referring to the business knowledge attained(was not all I was seeking), was then to be applied in my judgement of the 2 companies to obtain understanding.

Knowledge is knowing, but Understanding is Wisdom.
Something you're not understanding.

You have already made false assumptions on my perspective to show your wrong, and are digging yourself deep.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

What gets me still is everyone is going on this whole thing of who copied who first. FM had cockpit, damage exterior and interior wise, full customization, and wider interal car parts selection than GT before GT had it. Yet GT had more cars, the idea of a simulator to console, the idea of indepth graphics and a full on racing experience before forza. Oh and Forza had a massive paint selection before GT. The point is how can one make an argument that any game is a copy of GT or more descriptive wise GT5...when Forza and other games (pc sim included) had all these thing before GT ever did. I love GT but you come off as a biased contradiction when you say GT was the pioneer for everything that other games have similar (or better) to PDs creation.

No one game copied the other and to say so is a massive accusation, now influence would be correct, but I don't see how GT influenced FM to have cockpits before hand.

 

[JDMKING13]

What gets me still is everyone is going on this whole thing of who copied who first. FM had cockpit, damage exterior and interior wise, full customization, and wider interal car parts selection than GT before GT had it. Yet GT had more cars, the idea of a simulator to console, the idea of indepth graphics and a full on racing experience before forza. Oh and Forza had a massive paint selection before GT. The point is how can one make an argument that any game is a copy of GT or more descriptive wise GT5...when Forza and other games (pc sim included) had all these thing before GT ever did. I love GT but you come off as a biased contradiction when you say GT was the pioneer for everything that other games have similar (or better) to PDs creation.

No one game copied the other and to say so is a massive accusation, now influence would be correct, but I don't see how GT influenced FM to have cockpits before hand.

GT4 had cockpits just to let you know. No where close to FM cockpit count but it was in GT4.

 

[mastretta_mx]

What gets me still is everyone is going on this whole thing of who copied who first. FM had cockpit, damage exterior and interior wise, full customization, and wider interal car parts selection than GT before GT had it. Yet GT had more cars, the idea of a simulator to console, the idea of indepth graphics and a full on racing experience before forza. Oh and Forza had a massive paint selection before GT. The point is how can one make an argument that any game is a copy of GT or more descriptive wise GT5...when Forza and other games (pc sim included) had all these thing before GT ever did. I love GT but you come off as a biased contradiction when you say GT was the pioneer for everything that other games have similar (or better) to PDs creation.

No one game copied the other and to say so is a massive accusation, now influence would be correct, but I don't see how GT influenced FM to have cockpits before hand.

At least in my case I am not talking about GT5 being 100% Original (obviously have taken some things from other games, but have given other things to the genre) but Forza taking ideas from other developers, is not bad, thay have applied this concepts very well into the game, but obviously not so much Innovation there.

P.S. Interior customization was first (at least in this generation) in Midnight club Los Angeles

 

[jagenigma]

I haven't gotten it yet, I will get spec II when it comes out. Here is one difference between Turn 10 and PD, the level of dedication and passion that Kazunori Yamauchi has for his games is impressive, the fact that he himself, goes out to race tracks and researches them and the cars that he puts in the game tops turn 10 in every way in my opinion, meanwhile Forza has churned out 4 games in the past 8 or so years that still don't have most things right, when I play Forza 3 or 2, it feels like im driving a dumbed down version of Need For Speed Shift, the cars feel way too loose on the track and braking in the cars feels so unstable even on slower cars. I don't like the sort of "plug and play" gameplay that forza has either, Gran Turismo on the other hand teaches you how to drive, how to break, how to take a turn, and thats just something that no other racing/driving simulator games just haven't had. And on that note, GT5 feels more natural to drive(I've played numerous times in NYC's Playstaion store) (here come the arguments against me) meanwhile Forza seems like an glorified arcade racer. so as for me, i will always stick to the GT series and I will never be a speculator, I always accept the game for what it is because It isn't my work, i am not the one developing it so i can't comment on it.

 

[another_jakhole]

I haven't gotten it yet, I will get spec II when it comes out. Here is one difference between Turn 10 and PD, the level of dedication and passion that Kazunori Yamauchi has for his games is impressive, the fact that he himself, goes out to race tracks and researches them and the cars that he puts in the game tops turn 10 in every way in my opinion, meanwhile Forza has churned out 4 games in the past 8 or so years that still don't have most things right, when I play Forza 3 or 2, it feels like im driving a dumbed down version of Need For Speed Shift, the cars feel way too loose on the track and braking in the cars feels so unstable even on slower cars. I don't like the sort of "plug and play" gameplay that forza has either, Gran Turismo on the other hand teaches you how to drive, how to break, how to take a turn, and thats just something that no other racing/driving simulator games just haven't had. And on that note, GT5 feels more natural to drive(I've played numerous times in NYC's Playstaion store) (here come the arguments against me) meanwhile Forza seems like an glorified arcade racer. so as for me, i will always stick to the GT series and I will never be a speculator, I always accept the game for what it is because It isn't my work, i am not the one developing it so i can't comment on it.

So you're saying you'd take the prestigious Sim racer over the underdog?

For some reason, I don't think you mean it. I'm joking. I completely agree with your last statement. I've enjoyed GT5 for the past 10 months, Spec 2 will only make me want to propose to it.

I'm guessing you'd want 800 cars that arent from the PS2 retirement home and deep customization. And a more functional online system.

Oh hells yea.

Although, I have to say that the standards aren't even terrible looking anymore to me. I'm sure many others agree. They're beyond GT4/PS2 quality that's for sure. Deep customization - yeaaaa boiiiii. 👍

An improved FULLY functional online system might be better than the other two options. No, I know it is. There needs to be matchmaking quick match. Also, of course, more options everywhere.

Dan Greenawalt's words in an interview. What a brilliant man. HE'S A GENIUS! He might just be a greater inspiration to car "lovers" than Kaz is to everyone who admires him.

There will be approximately 500 "premium" cars between discs one and two.

Oh the funny in that. Disc one and two after taking a jab at GT. There's no denying it. He's such a manly man.

 

[Frozzy]

Not hating but what makes people think Polyphony's employees are more dedicated and passionate about their work than Turn 10's? Really?

 

[CSLACR]

Not hating but what makes people think Polyphony's employees are more dedicated and passionate about their work than Turn 10's? Really?

Because they're Japanese and it's considered ok by society to stereotype in positive ways for any race or ethnicity that is not American or Canadian.
Italians make good food, Germans are meticulous craftsmen, Finnish can drive best, English are smart, French are romantic, and of course, Japanese are meticulous and passionate craftsmen much like Germans, but with less negative stereotypes.
Forza is made by an American company, and therefore is the devil.

 

[another_jakhole]

Because they're Japanese and it's considered ok by society to stereotype in positive ways for any race or ethnicity that is not American or Canadian.
Italians make good food, Germans are meticulous craftsmen, Finnish can drive best, English are smart, French are romantic, and of course, Japanese are meticulous and passionate craftsmen much like Germans, but with less negative stereotypes.
Forza is made by an American company, and therefore is the devil.

Forza outsources as much as our "great" country of America does.

PD workers stay at work overnight when need be. Kaz started GT with 14 other people for 5 years (I've said that 100 times) in an Arcade game generation (going against the odds).

But, to be fair, no one directly said Polyphony Digital was more passionate than Turn 10. HAH!

Kaz is more passionate than Dan. Fact - look at their histories. Who's gone further? Who's made a greater impact due to his 15 year old teenage self, hoping to create an ambitious dream game that was inconceivable at first? Who was the 4 year old kid who could name every car on his street? Who's the reason for GT Academy? Also, who's been constantly working on the same series for over 19 years?

Who just got 1,000 posts on GranTurismoPlanet? Not Kaz. Pshh, that lazy man is probably enjoying creating his vision in a lazy boy right now with hot coco. with a straw mixed with Malibu and a little umbrella.



I'm such a fanboy. It's just the way I am.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Not hating but what makes people think Polyphony's employees are more dedicated and passionate about their work than Turn 10's? Really?

For starters it being mainly a GT forum is why you probably see it also people have this notion that corp. greed is why MS and Turn10 are selling a car game for the money and not the love of cars. PD has always been seen as the car lovers game, but they too could have the argument of corp greed, just not by a certain audience. I agree with you Turn 10 is probably just as passionate but some people dont like the idea of that.

 

[CSLACR]

Fact - look at their histories

I just wanted to say question are never facts. You admit to being a fanboy, which to me is more respectable then being one and denying it so 👍 to you.
(No I'm not being sarcastic)

For starters it being mainly a GT forum is why you probably see it also people have this notion that corp. greed is why MS and Turn10 are selling a car game for the money and not the love of cars. PD has always been seen as the car lovers game, but they too could have the argument of corp greed, just not by a certain audience. I agree with you Turn 10 is probably just as passionate but some people dont like the idea of that.

Actually I think Kaz is 300% more passionate about certain things.
I also believe Greenwalt is 300% more passionate about just being the best.

So which wins, the desire for perfection? Or the desire to be the best?
To close to call for me.

 

[jagenigma]

Not hating but what makes people think Polyphony's employees are more dedicated and passionate about their work than Turn 10's? Really?

Because they are, and if you have seen the development of GT5 videos you wouldn't be asking that question

 

[jagenigma]

Forza outsources as much as our "great" country of America does.

PD workers stay at work overnight when need be. Kaz started GT with 14 other people for 5 years (I've said that 100 times) in an Arcade game generation (going against the odds).

But, to be fair, no one directly said Polyphony Digital was more passionate than Turn 10. HAH!

Kaz is more passionate than Dan. Fact - look at their histories. Who's gone further? Who's made a greater impact due to his 15 year old teenage self, hoping to create an ambitious dream game that was inconceivable at first? Who was the 4 year old kid who could name every car on his street? Who's the reason for GT Academy? Also, who's been constantly working on the same series for over 19 years?

Who just got 1,000 posts on GranTurismoPlanet? Not Kaz. Pshh, that lazy man is probably enjoying creating his vision in a lazy boy right now with hot coco. with a straw mixed with Malibu and a little umbrella.



I'm such a fanboy. It's just the way I am.

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Gran Turismo for LIFE!!!

 

[Tenacious D]

What gets me still is everyone is going on this whole thing of who copied who first. FM had cockpit, damage exterior and interior wise, full customization, and wider interal car parts selection than GT before GT had it.

Look, you're going to have a few differences on any game within a given subject made by different development teams, this is a given. If another company made an espionage game made about an agent entering enemy territory with nothing but a stun pistol, basic med kit and a can opener, it would be obvious that they were copying Metal Gear Solid, and having different weapons here and there wouldn't mitigate anything. I made a point to list the essential gameplay and structure of GT and Forza for a reason. Both of those games aren't like anything but each other.

Microsoft is doing this because they're attacking SONY at their strength, which is what monopolies do when they want to conquer a market, or at least gobble up a good piece of it. Gran Turismo is SONY's premiere best selling game series, practically the mascot for the Playstation brand. M$ throws money around to acquire popular exclusives like Final Fantasy to weaken SONY's position in the market, and since they can't buy Polyphony, thank God, they copy them. If MS or EA ever wrestled Polyphony away from SONY, assuming they could, they would muck up Gran Turismo the way EA muddled Shift when it could have been a good simmish racer on consoles. Monopolies are bad, they stifle competition, innovation and overall quality. But I digress.

But having said that, Forza 4 looks good. Most remarks in the Forza section are very positive. I'm steering away from (pun intended) the latest vids so I can experience the game with unhyped eyes and sort through the goodies with few spoilers. This might be the first Forza in which I enjoy hotlapping as much as I do racing, which is something I experienced in Gran Turismo since getting GT4.

Still, I have to say that the "game" I'm the most excited about is GT5 2.0.

 

[Spagetti69]

If you play both games are you a bad person?

What I mean is, is it acceptable to admit to playing both titles or should one be a dirty secret?

Ha ha. Funny concept. Wars could start over this. Get a grip you loons.

 

[Tornado]

But, to be fair, no one directly said Polyphony Digital was more passionate than Turn 10.

Many, many people have said exactly that. And that's even ignoring the ridiculous post jagenigma just made above.

 

[JDMKING13]

After all the great news about spec 2.0 and dlc it looks like another year of everyday gaming. 👍

 

[alucard0712]

Not hating but what makes people think Polyphony's employees are more dedicated and passionate about their work than Turn 10's? Really?

Because they're Japanese and it's considered ok by society to stereotype in positive ways for any race or ethnicity that is not American or Canadian.
Italians make good food, Germans are meticulous craftsmen, Finnish can drive best, English are smart, French are romantic, and of course, Japanese are meticulous and passionate craftsmen much like Germans, but with less negative stereotypes.
Forza is made by an American company, and therefore is the devil.

For starters it being mainly a GT forum is why you probably see it also people have this notion that corp. greed is why MS and Turn10 are selling a car game for the money and not the love of cars. PD has always been seen as the car lovers game, but they too could have the argument of corp greed, just not by a certain audience. I agree with you Turn 10 is probably just as passionate but some people dont like the idea of that.

I just wanted to say question are never facts. You admit to being a fanboy, which to me is more respectable then being one and denying it so 👍 to you.
(No I'm not being sarcastic)


Actually I think Kaz is 300% more passionate about certain things.
I also believe Greenwalt is 300% more passionate about just being the best.

So which wins, the desire for perfection? Or the desire to be the best?
To close to call for me.

Because they are, and if you have seen the development of GT5 videos you wouldn't be asking that question

👍

I can add only one thing. GT is a pathfinder. All "sims" after it are staying on GT shoulders. It's MUCH MUCH MUCH easer for T10 to wait and see what PD are doing, then after some analysis T10 just take the best out of it, and work DIRECTLY on improving "bad GT" things. And all of that just to be "not worse in any aspect" than GT and T10 take all the hype, while path-finder GT takes about only complains.

 

[prymet1me]

This site never fails to amaze me.

 

[CSLACR]

👍

I can add only one thing. GT is a pathfinder. All "sims" after it are staying on GT shoulders. It's MUCH MUCH MUCH easer for T10 to wait and see what PD are doing, then after some analysis T10 just take the best out of it, and work DIRECTLY on improving "bad GT" things. And all of that just to be "not worse in any aspect" than GT and T10 take all the hype, while path-finder GT takes about only complains.

Most ironic post award.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Look, you're going to have a few differences on any game within a given subject made by different development teams, this is a given. If another company made an espionage game made about an agent entering enemy territory with nothing but a stun pistol, basic med kit and a can opener, it would be obvious that they were copying Metal Gear Solid, and having different weapons here and there wouldn't mitigate anything. I made a point to list the essential gameplay and structure of GT and Forza for a reason. Both of those games aren't like anything but each other.

Microsoft is doing this because they're attacking SONY at their strength, which is what monopolies do when they want to conquer a market, or at least gobble up a good piece of it. Gran Turismo is SONY's premiere best selling game series, practically the mascot for the Playstation brand. M$ throws money around to acquire popular exclusives like Final Fantasy to weaken SONY's position in the market, and since they can't buy Polyphony, thank God, they copy them. If MS or EA ever wrestled Polyphony away from SONY, assuming they could, they would muck up Gran Turismo the way EA muddled Shift when it could have been a good simmish racer on consoles. Monopolies are bad, they stifle competition, innovation and overall quality. But I digress.

But having said that, Forza 4 looks good. Most remarks in the Forza section are very positive. I'm steering away from (pun intended) the latest vids so I can experience the game with unhyped eyes and sort through the goodies with few spoilers. This might be the first Forza in which I enjoy hotlapping as much as I do racing, which is something I experienced in Gran Turismo since getting GT4.

Still, I have to say that the "game" I'm the most excited about is GT5 2.0.

Once again you probably should have quoted my whole post since that little sound bite doesn't even make the point of what I wrote. It only allows you to try and perpetuate some kind of argument that isn't even there. First off let's not make conspiracy theories about GT since there are bigger things in this world that deserve that rather than bias for a game. Second I'm saying no one copied anyone, only showing that the shoe fits both parties and for someone to try and say otherwise is just being close minded and needs to get a grip on reality. Both are fine games and all should be happy that they can play a game that rivals GT but isn't quite the same on a different platform, thus not having to deal with wishing for a multi-platform racing game.

Now your final bit was all I think you needed to say, because you put away your bias in a sense and seem to be happy that you can enjoy two games. I mean really unless any of you are getting paid to defend one game or another then I don't see why you do this day in and day out. However, I think both games should just be enjoyed at this point.

If you play both games are you a bad person?

What I mean is, is it acceptable to admit to playing both titles or should one be a dirty secret?

Ha ha. Funny concept. Wars could start over this. Get a grip you loons.

^ Finally, this is what should be said.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

👍

I can add only one thing. GT is a pathfinder. All "sims" after it are staying on GT shoulders. It's MUCH MUCH MUCH easer for T10 to wait and see what PD are doing, then after some analysis T10 just take the best out of it, and work DIRECTLY on improving "bad GT" things. And all of that just to be "not worse in any aspect" than GT and T10 take all the hype, while path-finder GT takes about only complains.

Pathfinder? Get your head out of the clouds and look at the facts, GT wasn't the first racing game there were others before it that started the trend, but never became as poweful as GT is today. There are PC sims that put any console games car physics to shame and that just the reality of the ever changing hardware and software. GT did things that others haven't, but there are other racing games that do things that GT still doesn't. It's quite insulting to say that GT has done everything and others are just riding on the coat tails. Let's be realistic with are fandom.

 

[dhandeh]

This update will breath new life into the game, hopefully the dlc will be outstanding.