Anyone planning to drop GT5?

  • Thread starter adramire
  • 1,661 comments
  • 94,948 views

Anyone planning on dropping GT5?

  • Yes

    Votes: 105 12.2%

  • No

    Votes: 672 78.1%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 83 9.7%
  • Total voters
    860
It still gives example how AI reacts to a physical object in front of it, in any matter. Which will only further apply to AI in all circumstances of a physical object in front. The only thing that changes is the further of variables, and like I said that's where we are now in coding.

It's not that hard to understand.
 
MoGoSpeed
It still gives example how AI reacts to a physical object in front of it, in any matter. Which will only further apply to AI in all circumstances of a physical object in front. The only thing that changes is the further of variables, and like I said that's where we are now in coding.

It's not that hard to understand.
Click to expand...
So you understand parking a car on track will only tell you how the AI dodges parked cars, yes?
If one of the games dodged and the other didn't, it would be a different story, and the test could shed some light, but it's not.
Both games try to dodge, and that's all the test can ever prove.
 
It tells me how AI reacts to a physical object in front of it at seemingly the lowest calculations, although like I've said in that video you also have added variables and get reactions of AI not only according to the stationary object but in reaction to the surrounding circumstances with the other AI with that stationary object in play. All of them straying out of the best line to take.(slow turn/fast turns/blind turns)
 
@ you Toronado :)

But I think I got my answer from another jackholes article referring to everything was pretty much started from scratch for GT5.


EDIT: Besides standard cars of course :sly:
 
Eh, the AI, the sound, the lack of cockpits, and the lack of tuning/customization killed GT5 for me.

I dropped GT5 a while back, but I am hoping Spec 2.0 (although its so damn late) can breathe some soul into the game.

PD needs to a take a hard look at Shift2's AI. The reaction and "personalities" of them are top notch. No rubber banding, and actually react to your moves. If they could refine that, it would help so much.
 
Vaxxtx
Eh, the AI, the sound, the lack of cockpits, and the lack of tuning/customization killed GT5 for me.

I dropped GT5 a while back, but I am hoping Spec 2.0 (although its so damn late) can breathe some soul into the game.

PD needs to a take a hard look at Shift2's AI. The reaction and "personalities" of them are top notch. No rubber banding, and actually react to your moves. If they could refine that, it would help so much.
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But Shift's drivers intentionally try to crash you sometimes just because.
Not what I'm looking for in any sim.
Also, when was the last time Shift allowed you to use something literally 2X faster than their cars?

I don't like the AI in GT5, but they're not as terrible as people make them out to be. The biggest issues arise when you're driving cars that come into their "sense zone" to quickly, like using a X2010 to win the dream car championship. :yuck:

If PD would just limit us to the same tires/car type as the AI this issue would mostly go away.
 
Tenacious D
One thing that isn't a secret though is that the budget for Forza has always been top secret, which is why I never found one before. However, just about anyone should be able to fathom that the budget for Forza 4 is likely through the roof. They contracted a cinema graphic studio to design the lighting engine for the game, which is yet more cost to the five studios doing content building for T10 amar212 dug up, as well as their own team of over 200 people. And I sincerely doubt that very many people gave a company as rich as MS a discount on anything.

Do the math. There were likely two or three times Polyphony's team size - 150 plus - working on this game, along with the movie graphics bunch. They had to contract time with Pirelli as well as test a few tons of cars. They rebuilt the game engine. They couldn't pay EA enough for the Porsche license this time, so I'm still thinking a budget bigger than GT5's.
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You say that like it's a bad thing.
 
^ I think it's because people can sometimes be critical of GT5's budget.

But it would be interesting to find out what kind of budget T10 worked with for FM4. That too would provide some interesting perspective.
 
Clearly people can be critical of both.

If they have the means and the will, more power to anyone that sinks the most money possible into making their game as good as possible.

It would seem somewhere, at some point in time, "budget issues" became a "defense" for any potential shortcomings GT5 encounters.
 
CSLACR
But Shift's drivers intentionally try to crash you sometimes just because.
Not what I'm looking for in any sim.
Also, when was the last time Shift allowed you to use something literally 2X faster than their cars?

I don't like the AI in GT5, but they're not as terrible as people make them out to be. The biggest issues arise when you're driving cars that come into their "sense zone" to quickly, like using a X2010 to win the dream car championship. :yuck:

If PD would just limit us to the same tires/car type as the AI this issue would mostly go away.
Click to expand...

Shift 2 AI rarely ran into you on purpose. I am not afaid to admist I played S2 till my hands bled. They were aggresive, but pretty good at holding a line or overtaking you, in the right spots. It isnt perfect, but the best I have seen in a console. Thats also why I said "refined".

Yeah a PI system would help a bit as well. You upgrade, so do the AI. I still think the AI in GT5 are pretty much set on rails though. They need a major overhaul.

MoGoSpeed
^ I think it's because people can sometimes be critical of GT5's budget.

But it would be interesting to find out what kind of budget T10 worked with for FM4. That too would provide some interesting perspective.
Click to expand...

Why even go there?
 
MoGoSpeed
Why not?

I like to analyze things on all spectrums, and that would provide some perspective, especially from a business standpoint in correlation with time considerations.

Is it so wrong?
Click to expand...

Good idea, but we both know where it ends up. But whatever..
 
Vaxxtx
Shift 2 AI rarely ran into you on purpose. I am not afaid to admist I played S2 till my hands bled. They were aggresive, but pretty good at holding a line or overtaking you, in the right spots. It isnt perfect, but the best I have seen in a console. Thats also why I said "refined".

Yeah a PI system would help a bit as well. You upgrade, so do the AI. I still think the AI in GT5 are pretty much set on rails though. They need a major overhaul.
Click to expand...
I haven't played Shift 2 yet, but I can already say the AI in Shift 1 was "better" in this way then GT5 by miles.
The only catch is, I think the crashing is involved in the close racing, meaning the only way for them to crash you less, is to give you more room.

But yes, especially given GT5's AI like to pull pit maneuvers also I'll take Shift's AI.
It should be said GT5's AI are still nearly unmovable, you really have to ram the hell out of them to budge, yet a slight tap from them kills you.:dunce:
A very large, untouched problem with GT's AI, at the least carried over from GT4, if not before.

MoGoSpeed
Why not?

I like to analyze things on all spectrums, and that would provide some perspective, especially from a business standpoint in correlation with time considerations.

Is it so wrong?
Click to expand...
A wise man once said "Tis better to have a reason for everything you do, then to do everything you cannot find a reason to not".

I can understand just wanting to know for knowledge's sake, but it's a pretty useless number, and I'll tell you why.

Companies Lie.
Knowing won't change the quality of either game.
Knowing will make people try to "defend" GT with the numbers as though spending money to make a good game is criminal.
Knowing will make people tout FM4 as "better" because it cost more money to make.
The cost is relative, and money earned from the game can never be counted.

I'll explain the last one. You see, FM has the potential to get people to buy the XBOX because they can still play a good racing simulator, how many people make that switch, and all the other games and accessories they purchase will always be unknown.
If FM4 convinces me to go out and buy an XBOX, and it's so good I'm willing to drop GT5, I'll have no reason left for owning a PS3, and I know I'm not the only one.
I think GT has helped Sony more than they realize, and they should be doing a much better job of keeping it "the undisputed champ" as it once was. By any and all means necessary.
 
CSLACR
A wise man once said "Tis better to have a reason for everything you do, then to do everything you cannot find a reason to not".

I can understand just wanting to know for knowledge's sake, but it's a pretty useless number, and I'll tell you why.

Companies Lie.
Knowing won't change the quality of either game.
Knowing will make people try to "defend" GT with the numbers as though spending money to make a good game is criminal.
Knowing will make people tout FM4 as "better" because it cost more money to make.
The cost is relative, and money earned from the game can never be counted.

I'll explain the last one. You see, FM has the potential to get people to buy the XBOX because they can still play a good racing simulator, how many people make that switch, and all the other games and accessories they purchase will always be unknown.
If FM4 convinces me to go out and buy an XBOX, and it's so good I'm willing to drop GT5, I'll have no reason left for owning a PS3, and I know I'm not the only one.
I think GT has helped Sony more than they realize, and they should be doing a much better job of keeping it "the undisputed champ" as it once was. By any and all means necessary.
Click to expand...

You really assume you know alot.

It's not just knowledge sake, what did I say after? "a business standpoint in relation to time considerations.

It's not a useless number, as one learns if an investment profits on the cost, and if it was worth the cost. One of the many things you can take out of it. Your logic baffles me.

Regardless if companies lie, you can get a rough estimate. And I don't get what you're trying to get at with the benefit of them lying(unless you're implying that just because someone spent a huge budget that something is guaranteed to come out good.)

Obviously knowing doesn't change the quality of the game, but gives insight of the quality of the game according/in relation to cost. Again your logic baffles me.

For me, it was never knowing to tout expenses for the game, but quality with what how much of an investment put in. The thing I would see people complain about is that they assumed GT5's budget of 60 million warranted them a perfect game, so I'm actually on the opposite of what you're assuming. So say Turn10 spent more than that with their budget, and FM4 doesn't reach it's own high expectations, then that could be very telling of the quality vs invesment with that game.

So your assumptions on the the perspective I'm trying to take in are wrong.

No reason for your PS3? No Blu-Ray for you? you only play 1 game? That's interesting, but I could careless. Having both systems is always a plus(They've both been out a while) I save money for what I want.


I think Sony realizes what GT does for them, that should be obvious with Sony having PD create a PSP version of GT to generate sales there for PSP, and adding 3D with their release date to promote sales of 3D televisions. Then add in what everyone had assumed a big budget of 60 million then surely Sony has taken notice.

But again if Forzas budget has been bigger and lacks the quality of such an investment. Then that will provide my interesting perspective I'm looking for.
 
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CSLACR
That's okay, you'll learn it in life.
Just because you can't think of a reason "why not" doesn't mean there isn't one.:sly:
Click to expand...

Actually i think i understand what you were saying now. The sentence structure was just melting my eyes.

But even doing something because you can't find a reason not to - is in effect doing something for that reason.

So it's an oxymoron really.
 
machschnel
You say that like it's a bad thing.
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Only if this massive an expenditure results in the usual game which seems to be in perpetual beta-test, like the previous three games were, and GT5 is.

I can see why both games have such big budgets. GT5 has a lot of technology running at once which one of them, 3D, really should have been an OPTION to install, as very few of us have 3DTVs yet. And if you look at the graphics of Prologue again, you'll see that it's better looking than GT5 in a few ways. Plus the insane level of modeling and art involved in the Premium cars and tracks are only being matched by Forza 4 now.

Forza has expansive backgrounds which have more in them than GT5's, with some sort of well done LOD system which provides just enough detail to make it look realistic, at least from the YouTube vids I've seen. This might be something the war shooters have developed, and something PD could pick up on for GT6, but if it's something T10 themselves worked on, then good on them. But nothing Dan G or their demos ever previewed prepared me for the frooky things buried in the games, and I'll be holding my virtual breath as I get into F4 for the little beta-bombs usually in every MS software, including the last three Forzas. Here's hoping they're squashed this time before release, or there are going to be the usual leaderboard wipes and other fixes along the way.

And on those other racing games, CSLACR is really enjoying throwing a lot of disparate info on the whole "what racing games are like what" banter by intentionally throwing all kinds of random bits together and blurring distinctions. Of course he's got me on ignore now, so I don't have to worry about hurting his butt with this.

NFS is based on Cannonball Run and Gumball Rally (movie) racing in which hot rods and supercars race over various terrain which no serious racer would. And with the limits of PCs - and developers - even today, EA couldn't make extremely long point-to-point courses, so the game took place in circuits instead, though in outlandish scenic locations from city streets winding through warehouse districts and aquariums to mountains and canyons. And we all remember the Hot Pursuit games with lovely cop chases, which some people can't seem to get enough of. This style of racing in the gene pool runs in a lineage through games like Midnight Club, Tokyo Extreme and Project Gotham, and can even be argued Burnout and Motorstorm.

Gran Turismo was based loosely on the concept of the entire bloodline of real world motorsports, from enthusiast motocross clubs with their stock weekend racers to the world of professional racing, without the cop chases and fireworks of the arcadey NFS and similar games. It used real cars and realistic race track settings in contrast to the flamboyant content of the previous arcade racers. It was so refreshing from the usual racer, either arcade NFS style or stuffy PC sims with their restricted car lists and options, using real world sports cars, and gave the player a range of realistic upgrade options to tune their rides and make them competitive with more powerful, higher performance stock cars, and even race cars to an extent.

Forza had a bit of this NFS flavor in the first game, using a street circuit from one of the NFS games, "Fujimi" (Mt Fuji) for a mountain point-to-point series and even Junkie XL for the soundtrack, a long time provider in NFS games, and is most likely because of the members hired away from EA's NFS team by Microsoft to found the core of Turn 10 as mentioned years ago in the Forzacentral discussions with me by one of the mods there. But the rest of the game, and very distinctly so in the next two Forzas, followed the Gran Turismo formula closely.
 
CSLACR
... if you re-read the posts, I never actually said GT is actually a copy of NFS in any way whatsoever. I said if FM is a copy of GT, then GT is a copy of NFS.
So go back and try again.

...
Click to expand...

Well, I have to say, I'm still not getting this. Could you explain the logic?

It's easy to see how Forza could be construed as a copy of the GT formula, but I fail to see how GT was a copy of NFS, given at the time NFS was an arcade racer all about evading cops and dodging through traffic, with only a handful of high-end cars available and no upgrade options or personal garage, no licences, no in-game currency etc.

If you mean it copied NFS because they're both "racing games", then I think we both need to agree that you're being more than a little facaetious, and all true credit for the genre actually goes to Speed Race, via Space Race.
 
Pennywize
more then half the people dont play no more. numbers mean nothing except for how much they made on a unfinished game
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Probably the majority of the who buy GT5 just play games on and off or are not really into racing that and played it for a little while before returning to CoD/BF or whatever or got the game as a present. That's the smae with any game. I don't think you can find a game which sold a lot of copies where more than half are still playing the game after a year.

Didn't read every post before this so I don't really know what it is all about and it's in no way meant to disrespect you. Just saying that those numbers aren't really worth watching. Like you said PD already got their money:D
 
leepangfu
Probably the majority of the who buy GT5 just play games on and off or are not really into racing that and played it for a little while before returning to CoD/BF or whatever or got the game as a present. That's the smae with any game. I don't think you can find a game which sold a lot of copies where more than half are still playing the game after a year.

Didn't read every post before this so I don't really know what it is all about and it's in no way meant to disrespect you. Just saying that those numbers aren't really worth watching. Like you said PD already got their money:D
Click to expand...

yes i should have said as for any game.
 
Pennywize
more then half the people dont play no more. numbers mean nothing except for how much they made on a unfinished game
Click to expand...

lol those numbers do mean something substantial....that to the majority of GT fans( not everyone on GT planet is a GT fan and more importantly there only a small proportion of the GT community) are pleased by the game. 5.5 million in 12 days is literally unheard of unless your a shooter or have the name Mario in it. People say this is due to the hype but if it was how come Gt5 was the second most played game 6 months after it came out online. Also please remember this is not COD so the there are probably an equivalent of people playing offline too. If you still look at the UK charts GT5 is still in the top 20 and that says something despite the "bad reviews". Surely the hype does not last 1 year after a game has come out.
 

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