Are intentional taps (little bumps) considered acceptable racing technique?

[Stevisiov]

It's a popular move in BTCC, but its worth remembering that BTCC =/= Online racing.

Online racing has lag, which even on a good connection, can spontaneously cause lag which briefly alters the positions of cars. The facet of this being, a small controlled nudge can turn into a big whack due to network instabilities. For this reason, such a technique is completely inappropriate for online racing.

 

[Avaruusnuija]

Ah, good point, I didn't think about the lag.

 

[marshy10156]

I do it to blockers. Mostly I crash them out as 10 racers behind you shouldnt have to suffer with 80% throttle because you cant drive fast. Maybe when people actually let faster cars pass, then I will be less aggressive.

This is he exact type of 🤬 that annoys clean racers, just because you think you're quicker doesnt give you the right to slam people out of the way. Defensive driving is what the best drivers are great at. If i'm having a bad day and i'm being hunted down by someone quicker i'll force you to take the outside line by moving over before the braking zone, late braking, inside line, etc.

More often than not when you think you're quicker anyway its usually because of drafting. You get ahead and then wonder why you can't stretch out a lead. Finally just because you have a quicker car or can put in quicker laps doesn't mean you're going to finish first. Being quick and overtaking people are 2 very different things and if you can't handle it, well stick to the time-trial Seasonal events. 💡

 

[Avaruusnuija]

This is he exact type of 🤬 that annoys clean racers, just because you think you're quicker doesnt give you the right to slam people out of the way. Defensive driving is what the best drivers are great at. If i'm having a bad day and i'm being hunted down by someone quicker i'll force you to take the outside line by moving over before the braking zone, late braking, inside line, etc.

More often than not when you think you're quicker anyway its usually because of drafting. You get ahead and then wonder why you can't stretch out a lead. Finally just because you have a quicker car or can put in quicker laps doesn't mean you're going to finish first. Being quick and overtaking people are 2 very different things and if you can't handle it, well stick to the time-trial Seasonal events. 💡

👍

 

[freedomweasel]

It's fair game in BTCC and the like, but that's about it. If your part of a touring car style league I'd expect it, but for a random race online or something like that I'd prefer not to be bumped, though as long as they didn't bump me off track or something I wouldn't care too much. Just a game.

edit: to be clear, I'll try my hardest to avoid bumping anyone but I'm not going to get too angry if someone nudges me off line.

 

[Azure Flare]

Rubbin's racin', but I prefer to stick right on you and force you to make a mistake.

 

[renesiskiller]

Avoid contact as best you can. Sometimes it happens and you can't avoid it. I have missed braking points and collided with cars at the back of the pack before. In that case I slow way down so they can regain composure and get back in front of me, then we continue.

 

[BradKinder]

IMO, thread should have been closed after my series of posts.

 

[Anghammarad]

Apples & Oranges yet again. Trading paint while going side by side as in BTCC is not the problem. The problems are the ones that feel they have the right to crash into their opponent or do a pit maneuver to move them out of the way just because they cannot pass cleanly. That is not allowed in any motorsport. Defending you position while you're in front is. If I'm in front and you want to pass me I will defend my position by taking the inside line into a corner. That is not blocking, that is racing and if you want to pass me you just have to go round on the outside or wait until I make a mistake. I just can't understand how anyone can take any pride in a victory that is won by ramming your opponents off track.

 

[C-ZETA]

Of course anything that might affect a driver even slightly that is intentional is not racing technique. So the simple answer is...

No.

 

[trk29]

Raced at Fuji last night and had a great race until the last stretch when I was passing the exact same car I was driving to get second place (Lexus SC 430) when right as I was passing him he hit me into the wall. Freaking prick then left the room after I called him out.

 

[Eskimojos]

Apples & Oranges yet again. Trading paint while going side by side as in BTCC is not the problem. The problems are the ones that feel they have the right to crash into their opponent or do a pit maneuver to move them out of the way just because they cannot pass cleanly. That is not allowed in any motorsport. Defending you position while you're in front is. If I'm in front and you want to pass me I will defend my position by taking the inside line into a corner. That is not blocking, that is racing and if you want to pass me you just have to go round on the outside or wait until I make a mistake. I just can't understand how anyone can take any pride in a victory that is won by ramming your opponents off track.

Ok then the real question is, how do you drive defensively as you describe when 99% of online players won't slow down and TRY to get around you, but rather will actually SUCCEED in going straight through you. Don't get me wrong, I like to drive just as you describe, but its an impossibility with most of the knobs out there that think they're going around Monza in a dodgem car. Personally I blame three things:

1. A-spec conditioning (as has been covered elsewhere)

2. A fundamental inability for GT5ers to accurately estimate their own ability (described very well by Marshy above).

3. The terrible physics model that means that if you ram someone from behind going to deep into a corner (or indeed anywhere on the track) the person leading/defending will come off worse near enough to 100% of the time. Therefore that type of behaviour is actually encouraged by the game.

For these reasons, and indeed many others, I think it has to be fair to say that taps, bumps and contact must be avoided whenever possible. I agree with you that I cant see where the pride comes from by winning badly, but that doesn't seem to stop anyone from doing it, because the rewards for behaving like an obnoxious turd online far outweigh those that you get from behaving like a gent.

In summary: Taps, bumps, contact must be avoided at all costs, even if it means you have to come second (and what is so wrong with that, honestly)

 

[Stotty]

It's a very sad day when 55% of those responding to the poll say deliberate contact is acceptable.

The Planet is supposed to be a place for GT enthusiasts, and as such, I'd have expected to see a much bigger commitment from the members to proper on-line etiquette. The on-line racing rules have been been in place for many years, and they aren't just specific to GTP, but also used by other racing major sites such as GTRP, GTNDC, KOR, ROS etc etc etc.

If this is the majority attitude of drivers in open lobbies, all I can say is thank god for private rooms.

 

[Starking]

This is he exact type of 🤬 that annoys clean racers, just because you think you're quicker doesnt give you the right to slam people out of the way. Defensive driving is what the best drivers are great at. If i'm having a bad day and i'm being hunted down by someone quicker i'll force you to take the outside line by moving over before the braking zone, late braking, inside line, etc.

More often than not when you think you're quicker anyway its usually because of drafting. You get ahead and then wonder why you can't stretch out a lead. Finally just because you have a quicker car or can put in quicker laps doesn't mean you're going to finish first. Being quick and overtaking people are 2 very different things and if you can't handle it, well stick to the time-trial Seasonal events. 💡

Yes, I can completely agree with this. The one thing that annoys me more then anything in this game is when someone tries to pass on the inside off a draft yet I'm still ahead going into the turn. The other then that annoys me is when someone tries to block going down a straight and it isn't even the last lap, most of these type of situations are just asking for an accident.

Some rubbing and unintentional taps are all fine, nothing more exciting then two people fighting for the lead. I can admit I bump into people, I try to follow within drafting distance. But sometimes you'll be following close mid-turn and the guy in front of you starts to go wide and hits his brakes. Sometimes it's beyond your control, but if you're hitting people just so you can manage a pass. Then that's pretty sad and shows a lack of skill on your part. I really wish some people knew when a pass can be made when it can't be.

 

[Stevisiov]

It's a very sad day when 55% of those responding to the poll say deliberate contact is acceptable.

The Planet is supposed to be a place for GT enthusiasts, and as such, I'd have expected to see a much bigger commitment from the members to proper on-line etiquette. The on-line racing rules have been been in place for many years, and they aren't just specific to GTP, but also used by other racing major sites such as GTRP, GTNDC, KOR, ROS etc etc etc.

If this is the majority attitude of drivers in open lobbies, all I can say is thank god for private rooms.

Thankfully the percentage of people who answer completely unacceptable would be completely different when looking at higher level racers, and those who subscribe racing teams like those you mentioned above.

Generally speaking, the people who think its okay to bump and nudge their way to victory, are also the people who are left behind after the first lap, so it works out okay in the end anyway.

I'm still really waiting to hear a good justification as to why it would be okay to intentionally hit, or even nudge your opponent in order to 'unsettle' them.

The best justification I have heard is that they do it in the BTCC, but I think people are going to have to try harder than that.

 

[dhandeh]

I find the amount of people who voted yes, slightly disturbing.

 

[Hugo Boss]

I'm still really waiting to hear a good justification as to why it would be okay to intentionally hit, or even nudge your opponent in order to 'unsettle' them.

The best justification I have heard is that they do it in the BTCC, but I think people are going to have to try harder than that.

There isn't. The reason it is 'allowed' in BTCC is because it's the return of an incompetent and indecisive race control year after year..

It's not limited to BTCC, though. Almost all touring/GT car classes suffer from this, the amount of bumping depending on the competence of the drivers and what's at stake. WTCC has been full of dirty driving, but the national cups in The Netherlands can be a pain to watch too...

 

[Stevisiov]

There isn't. The reason it is 'allowed' in BTCC is because it's the return of an incompetent and indecisive race control year after year..

It's not limited to BTCC, though. Almost all touring/GT car classes suffer from this, the amount of bumping depending on the competence of the drivers and what's at stake. WTCC has been full of dirty driving, but the national cups in The Netherlands can be a pain to watch too...

Oh I agree, I think the reason its allowed in the BTCC for some many years is because they know incidents please the casual spectators, and the BTCC have been desperately toiling to retain audiences for the best part of a decade.

I'd also agree that it's not even remotely good enough to justify such techniques in online racing, but I really haven't heard any better justifications so far, which says a lot really...

 

[Hugo Boss]

Sad but true. The real fans are the victim of the desire to please the masses. Can't blame the organisations completely for that though, after all it's the masses that bring in the most money.

Don't think we'll see a better justification though, simply because the truth is that mankind doesn't like to be confronted with their own shortcomings and bumping people out of the way is the ideal solution to cover your lack of skill.

 

[dhandeh]

Don't think we'll see a better justification though, simply because the truth is that mankind doesn't like to be confronted with their own shortcomings and bumping people out of the way is the ideal solution to cover your lack of skill.

Agree totally.

 

[RobGT81]

There isn't. The reason it is 'allowed' in BTCC is because it's the return of an incompetent and indecisive race control year after year..

It's not limited to BTCC, though. Almost all touring/GT car classes suffer from this, the amount of bumping depending on the competence of the drivers and what's at stake. WTCC has been full of dirty driving, but the national cups in The Netherlands can be a pain to watch too...

I dont think intentional taps are 'allowed' in BTCC, which is why I think you put it in '' If the tap looks overly intentional the driver will get penalised.

If someone is coming down the inside of me down a straight I happily let them take the inside line and come up alongside me, 9 times out of 10 they run out of ability and outbrake themselves and you just nip up the inside of them as they run out wide or onto the grass. The best way to fairly overtake someone driving defensivly is to just keep right up behind them, I find on iRacing the pressure seems to get to people, myself included, and usually end up making a mistake eventually which gives you the oppurtunity to get through

 

[Stotty]

Don't think we'll see a better justification though, simply because the truth is that mankind doesn't like to be confronted with their own shortcomings and bumping people out of the way is the ideal solution to cover your lack of skill.

Absolutely, Hugo 👍

In my experience of on-line racing over the past 4 years, against most of the fastest drivers in the World, the people who are quick never make intentional contact with another car... they are good enough drivers to find the passing opportunity without needing to make contact.

Some of the people who bump and barge to get past might be fast drivers but they have no race craft, otherwise thay are just not fast in the first place.

 

[Stevisiov]

Don't think we'll see a better justification though, simply because the truth is that mankind doesn't like to be confronted with their own shortcomings and bumping people out of the way is the ideal solution to cover your lack of skill.

I agree I don't think I will see a convincing justification for even nudging let alone punting.

So I propose a challenge: to those who think its acceptable to nudge bump and tap in online racing, try and logically justify it.

 

[Eskimojos]

So I propose a challenge: to those who think its acceptable to nudge bump and tap in online racing, try and logically justify it.

I think you might have just killed the thread with that one!!

 

[aland18]

I agree I don't think I will see a convincing justification for even nudging let alone punting.

So I propose a challenge: to those who think its acceptable to nudge bump and tap in online racing, try and logically justify it.

have an uncle that did stock car racing for about 10 years - it was a part of the race and it happened.

Mind you, actually pitting someone is def. unacceptable but it depends on the style of racing.

F1 racing...yeah, not really an option. But stock car racing and some GT racing will have some bumps here and there. FTR, taps and "causing to crash" are not the same thing.

It seems that there is a "high horse" mentality to those that are completely anti-bumping.

 

[dhandeh]

have an uncle that did stock car racing for about 10 years - it was a part of the race and it happened.

Mind you, actually pitting someone is def. unacceptable but it depends on the style of racing.

F1 racing...yeah, not really an option. But stock car racing and some GT racing will have some bumps here and there. FTR, taps and "causing to crash" are not the same thing.

It seems that there is a "high horse" mentality to those that are completely anti-bumping.

Its a win at all costs mentality that's the problem. Personally I would rather finish second in a closely contested race after trying to legitimately pass, rather than push them out the way for an easy win. I tend to find you improve by learning to pass, not just intentionally cause carnage.

As for your 'high horse' comment, well carry on as you are, barging and ruining it for everyone.

 

[RobGT81]

Its a win at all costs mentality that's the problem. Personally I would rather finish second in a closely contested race after trying to legitimately pass, rather than push them out the way for an easy win. I tend to find you improve by learning to pass, not just intentionally cause carnage.

As for your 'high horse' comment, well carry on as you are, barging and ruining it for everyone.

Some of the bump free close races I have had on iRacing are incredibly tense but you know the guy your racing alongside isnt going to tap you intentionally so it actually leads to a lot closer racing. I would like to see a safety rating system in GT5 however I think it would put too many people off.

 

[darkblade986]

The "win at all costs" mentality is what can make for some really exciting race. Look at the finish at Darlington between Ricky Craven and Kurt Busch back in 2003.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg4vSWywWg8

While given, that bumping was a little extreme, it made for a great race. Neither driver outright wrecked the other, but they were still doing what us NASCAR drivers love to see - hard racing. Of course, that's based on a sport populated by a bunch of us rednecks - it's what WE enjoy. If you guys enjoy performance racing like in Formula 1, that's your decision.

 

[JayJonesJunior]

No contact doesn't mean you shouldn't be agressive.
Take a look at some of Senna's greatests overtakes.

 

[aland18]

Its a win at all costs mentality that's the problem. Personally I would rather finish second in a closely contested race after trying to legitimately pass, rather than push them out the way for an easy win. I tend to find you improve by learning to pass, not just intentionally cause carnage.

As for your 'high horse' comment, well carry on as you are, barging and ruining it for everyone.

so you read only the last line of my post?!

as for the bolded text, it sounds like you're trying to win the argument "at all costs"

contact is inevitable in most forms of racing. a tap isn't going to cause carnage, furthermore my opinion is based upon real racing. haven't done a stitch of online racing.

in F1, completely agree with you and see your point - those cars are a)too fast, b) open wheel and c) not built structurally to withstand any contact.

but in most other forms of racing its pretty accepted. Hell, its allowed in horse racing.