Beater or Sleeper? GT6 Car of the Week Thread
- Thread starter McClarenDesign
- 6,930 comments
- 1,084,751 views
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
I am going to quote you from an earlier post: "And then the ultimate irony; the fact that Mazda built it. Isn't it funny that the brand that Ford dumped like a random girlfriend created the same car that embarassed their sporty modern Focus? Mazda got left for dead, and then promptly created cars such as the new 2, 6 and the new MX-5; living proofs that natural aspiration and simple yet effectively fun driving aren't ready to drop the towel just yet." That's why i thought so
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
Well, I was more or less stating facts; Mazda's latest cars have received many good reviews, and they still resist the urge that many manufacturers have fallen victims of; turbocharging engines. Ford never really gave Mazda much of their time, and as a result, their (by "their" I mean Mazda) cars suffered from many problems. Mind you, I do not hate Ford either, I was just pointing out the fact that the older RX-8 was still a faster car than the newer Focus, even when the ST was turbocharged and resorted to the latest car technology.
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- 5,785
- Norman, OK
- McClarenDesign
I've seen engines go without oil and survive. Just because the pan is dry doesn't mean the engine is. Oil is like air, it doesn't always behave in a rational/intuitive manner. It sticks to parts, and sometimes that's enough. I'd never recommend running without it, but it's not always as catastrophic as oil companies would have you believe. Engines nowadays are built a lot better than they used to be.
As for Ford and Mazda, that was an investment Ford made that worked quite well. It's hard to see the impact as a consumer, but for the enthusiast it was a win-win relationship while it lasted. Both parties got what they were after- Ford got quality, Mazda got SkyActive philosophy. I would've liked to see it last longer, but neither market would accept one owning the other. It's a cultural thing.
My only regret was that the Escort ZX2 wasn't in GT. The Focus replaced the ZX2, but the ZX2 was more fun. Way more fun.
As for Ford and Mazda, that was an investment Ford made that worked quite well. It's hard to see the impact as a consumer, but for the enthusiast it was a win-win relationship while it lasted. Both parties got what they were after- Ford got quality, Mazda got SkyActive philosophy. I would've liked to see it last longer, but neither market would accept one owning the other. It's a cultural thing.
My only regret was that the Escort ZX2 wasn't in GT. The Focus replaced the ZX2, but the ZX2 was more fun. Way more fun.
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
A fair enough assessement, Mazda did get something out of their (short-lived) affair with Ford, if anything. They learned something, and one of my personal beliefs is that you can learn something from all experiences in life even if it might sound useless to others. For Mazda, they came out with a revitalized personality, for Ford, they got a much need leap in quality. Also, wasn't that ZX2 a FF coupe that was exclusive to 'Murican markets? I was always intrigued by its concept...
In the meantime, I already sent the car pick for next winner to its winner, just to warn you, Mcclaren.
Okay, i learned that the Mazda drives really well, which is actually true because it was the only car with that i was able to complete a seasonal for 500pp cars earlier this year.
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
Well, there you go. As you see, I was merely speaking the truth when it comes to the RX-8. And @SuzukaStar also said something really good about it; that it is a 4-door (Honda) S2000, with a more neutral handling. That is also a pretty good assessement of the car.
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- 5,785
- Norman, OK
- McClarenDesign
Who won, and what's the new car?
- 1,964
- wocsoM
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
Oh, damm. I have to reveal it right now? Oops, give me a second.
And sorry, CSM, but there was a really cheeky thing that led to the victory of the person in question. But I did not forget your effort, and neither should Mcclaren.
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
Ok, apologies for the double post, and the delay in the announcement. A friend of mine came in today, and I almost forgot that it was supposed to be today when it came to revealing next week's car. My most sincere apologies.
Now, as for the winner for next week...
Oh, is that true, Mr. American? I wonder, could that GSX of yours survive all those burnouts and carry four people in confort? Just saying. Regardless, congrats, @JackRyanWMU! Do tell us what should we be driving this time around. And remember, no Japanese. Brad wouldn't like it if we went back there already, you know...
You and Mcclaren both. The last thing we need is more Japanese and/or front wheel drive in our cars and lives. Keep going...
And before you ask; yes, that is a scale model. In my defense, finding a picture featuring a sexy human girl and a RS in the same place was a task that I couldn't quite succed at. But look, you do get to see some plastic woman booty, so that fits. Or so I hope, at least. If you can find a better picture featuring a sexy girl, be my guest, this car matches the Aston Martin Vantage when it comes to difficulty in finding sexy pictures.
But it should be very interesting; after 69 weeks, we are back to France to test a COTW. And without the term "FF" attached to it, the RS may have a good shot at surprising people. But will it be a good surprise, or will the French car jokes return in force against a terrible car? Only time will tell...
Also, don't forget. With Peugeot's recent announcement came a VGT unveiling, so be prepared to get one of those, if next week does brings forth the 1:1 power-to-weight ratio lion...
Now, as for the winner for next week...
I see your precious Focuses, Golfs, and RX's and I just have to say...
...they're cute.
Oh, is that true, Mr. American? I wonder, could that GSX of yours survive all those burnouts and carry four people in confort? Just saying. Regardless, congrats, @JackRyanWMU! Do tell us what should we be driving this time around. And remember, no Japanese. Brad wouldn't like it if we went back there already, you know...
You and Mcclaren both. The last thing we need is more Japanese and/or front wheel drive in our cars and lives. Keep going...
It's the 1999 Hommell Berlinette R/S Coupe!
Ask an American about picking a car and he'll give you a French kit car. That's... strange logic, but hey, I will not argue with it.And before you ask; yes, that is a scale model. In my defense, finding a picture featuring a sexy human girl and a RS in the same place was a task that I couldn't quite succed at. But look, you do get to see some plastic woman booty, so that fits. Or so I hope, at least. If you can find a better picture featuring a sexy girl, be my guest, this car matches the Aston Martin Vantage when it comes to difficulty in finding sexy pictures.
But it should be very interesting; after 69 weeks, we are back to France to test a COTW. And without the term "FF" attached to it, the RS may have a good shot at surprising people. But will it be a good surprise, or will the French car jokes return in force against a terrible car? Only time will tell...
Also, don't forget. With Peugeot's recent announcement came a VGT unveiling, so be prepared to get one of those, if next week does brings forth the 1:1 power-to-weight ratio lion...
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- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
There is a Hommel in here. Look behind the girl's booty. It's there. No, really, it is.
Well, the booty is definitely in there, but the Hommell is a bit... different. That would be one of the older models, with different headlights, and taillights from a Citroen ZX. Because reasons. But it is a good attempt, not denying that. But I wonder if you can find a 1999 Berlinette with a sexy girl next to it...
- 2,254
- United States
- G_ASHER
Yea I know....How about this? I think that's a girl on the left. Does she have to be sexy?
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
Yea I know....How about this? I think that's a girl on the left. Does she have to be sexy?
Um, the girls that appear in the pictures Mcclaren posts are usually sexy, that one is rather... old cheese (in French language). So yeah, it would help if the girls look somewhat sexy. And I did consider using that picture, but it is rather small (I wanted to use a larger picture of the car, don't you know).
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- 3,417
- NJ
- Rave2Grave
I'll do my thing about the COTW tomorrow, but I found a new car channel on youtube and came across this video about a recent COTW that everyone loved (except for me) 
- 542
- Newport Beach, CA
- TurismoSlayer
One of my favorite parts of living here. Glad you like it too.
On a side note, I've really missed kickin it with everyone. Been a little chaotic lately. I'm hoping to get back in to the mix of things soon.
- 3,417
- NJ
- Rave2Grave
Hommell Berlinette R/S Coupe '99
2.0L
163 hp / 6,500 rpm
145 ft-lb / 5,500 rpm
950 kg (2,094 lbs)
395 pp
Cars within +/- half a second at Mid-Field on CS tires:
1:26.816 - 433 - Honda Mugen Motul Civic Si '87
1:26.850 - 415 - Spoon Integra Type R (DC2) '99
1:26.876 - 408 - Lotus Elise '96
1:26.920 - 438 - Subaru Legacy B4 Blitzen '00
1:26.931 - 438 - Toyota Aristo V300 '00
1:26.948 - 429 - Ford Focus ST '13
1:26.975 - 403 - Opel Speedster '00
1:27.183 - 428 - SRT SRT4 '03
1:27.237 - 434 - Toyota Supra 2.5GT Twin Turbo R '90
1:27.309 - 395 - Hommell Berlinette R/S Coupe '99
1:27.342 - 423 - Alfa Romeo GT 3.2 V6 24V '04
1:27.363 - 410 - Mercedes Benz 190 E 2.5 - 16 Evolution II '91
1:27.368 - 431 - Mitsubishi Eclipse GT '06
1:27.406 - 408 - Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 '85
1:27.444 - 428 - Audi S4 '98
1:27.460 - 417 - Chrysler Crossfire '04
1:27.530 - 414 - Honda Civic Type R '08
1:27.539 - 414 - Honda Civic Type R (EP) '04
1:27.572 - 410 - Honda Integra Type R (DC2) '99
1:27.603 - 434 - Toyota Aristo 3.0V '91
1:27.613 - 439 - Mazda Mazdaspeed Atenza '05
1:27.762 - 433 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution III GSR '95
1:27.790 - 428 - Volkswagen Golf VI R '10
1:27.802 - 429 - Toyota Supra 3.0GT Turbo A '88
If you look closely, you'll see last weeks' Focus ST in the list
MR Competition:
1:26.876 - 408 - Lotus Elise '96
1:26.975 - 403 - Opel Speedster '00
1:27.309 - 395 - Hommell Berlinette R/S Coupe '99
1:27.991 - 404 - Toyota MR2 G-Limited '97
1:28.224 - 411 - Lotus Elise '00
1:29.592 - 378 - Toyota MR2 Spyder (6MT) '02
1:30.887 - 376 - Toyota MR2 Spyder '99
It's hard to beat the first-gen Elise, but the Opel comes very close. The MR2 Spyder is too slow to be a competitor, but the 2nd gen MR2 certainly is not, with the Elise '00 treading on that cars' heels.
At 395 pp, the Berlinette is the fastest car under 400 pp at Mid-Field. The second-fastest car under 400 pp is the Toyota Altezza RS200 '98 which is 1.2 seconds slower and has 396 pp.
The car requires a lot of concentration mid-corner, as is typical with MR cars. I can't say I'm fond of its exterior design when compared next to the Opel or Lotus, but it does look fast. I'll call it a beater since I'd rather say I own a first-gen Lotus Elise than a Hommell.
2.0L
163 hp / 6,500 rpm
145 ft-lb / 5,500 rpm
950 kg (2,094 lbs)
395 pp
Cars within +/- half a second at Mid-Field on CS tires:
1:26.816 - 433 - Honda Mugen Motul Civic Si '87
1:26.850 - 415 - Spoon Integra Type R (DC2) '99
1:26.876 - 408 - Lotus Elise '96
1:26.920 - 438 - Subaru Legacy B4 Blitzen '00
1:26.931 - 438 - Toyota Aristo V300 '00
1:26.948 - 429 - Ford Focus ST '13
1:26.975 - 403 - Opel Speedster '00
1:27.183 - 428 - SRT SRT4 '03
1:27.237 - 434 - Toyota Supra 2.5GT Twin Turbo R '90
1:27.309 - 395 - Hommell Berlinette R/S Coupe '99
1:27.342 - 423 - Alfa Romeo GT 3.2 V6 24V '04
1:27.363 - 410 - Mercedes Benz 190 E 2.5 - 16 Evolution II '91
1:27.368 - 431 - Mitsubishi Eclipse GT '06
1:27.406 - 408 - Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 '85
1:27.444 - 428 - Audi S4 '98
1:27.460 - 417 - Chrysler Crossfire '04
1:27.530 - 414 - Honda Civic Type R '08
1:27.539 - 414 - Honda Civic Type R (EP) '04
1:27.572 - 410 - Honda Integra Type R (DC2) '99
1:27.603 - 434 - Toyota Aristo 3.0V '91
1:27.613 - 439 - Mazda Mazdaspeed Atenza '05
1:27.762 - 433 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution III GSR '95
1:27.790 - 428 - Volkswagen Golf VI R '10
1:27.802 - 429 - Toyota Supra 3.0GT Turbo A '88
If you look closely, you'll see last weeks' Focus ST in the list
MR Competition:
1:26.876 - 408 - Lotus Elise '96
1:26.975 - 403 - Opel Speedster '00
1:27.309 - 395 - Hommell Berlinette R/S Coupe '99
1:27.991 - 404 - Toyota MR2 G-Limited '97
1:28.224 - 411 - Lotus Elise '00
1:29.592 - 378 - Toyota MR2 Spyder (6MT) '02
1:30.887 - 376 - Toyota MR2 Spyder '99
It's hard to beat the first-gen Elise, but the Opel comes very close. The MR2 Spyder is too slow to be a competitor, but the 2nd gen MR2 certainly is not, with the Elise '00 treading on that cars' heels.
At 395 pp, the Berlinette is the fastest car under 400 pp at Mid-Field. The second-fastest car under 400 pp is the Toyota Altezza RS200 '98 which is 1.2 seconds slower and has 396 pp.
The car requires a lot of concentration mid-corner, as is typical with MR cars. I can't say I'm fond of its exterior design when compared next to the Opel or Lotus, but it does look fast. I'll call it a beater since I'd rather say I own a first-gen Lotus Elise than a Hommell.
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- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
Hommell Berlinette R/S Coupe '99
2.0L
163 hp / 6,500 rpm
145 ft-lb / 5,500 rpm
950 kg (2,094 lbs)
395 pp
Cars within +/- half a second at Mid-Field on CS tires:
1:26.816 - 433 - Honda Mugen Motul Civic Si '87
1:26.850 - 415 - Spoon Integra Type R (DC2) '99
1:26.876 - 408 - Lotus Elise '96
1:26.920 - 438 - Subaru Legacy B4 Blitzen '00
1:26.931 - 438 - Toyota Aristo V300 '00
1:26.948 - 429 - Ford Focus ST '13
1:26.975 - 403 - Opel Speedster '00
1:27.183 - 428 - SRT SRT4 '03
1:27.237 - 434 - Toyota Supra 2.5GT Twin Turbo R '90
1:27.309 - 395 - Hommell Berlinette R/S Coupe '99
1:27.342 - 423 - Alfa Romeo GT 3.2 V6 24V '04
1:27.363 - 410 - Mercedes Benz 190 E 2.5 - 16 Evolution II '91
1:27.368 - 431 - Mitsubishi Eclipse GT '06
1:27.406 - 408 - Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 '85
1:27.444 - 428 - Audi S4 '98
1:27.460 - 417 - Chrysler Crossfire '04
1:27.530 - 414 - Honda Civic Type R '08
1:27.539 - 414 - Honda Civic Type R (EP) '04
1:27.572 - 410 - Honda Integra Type R (DC2) '99
1:27.603 - 434 - Toyota Aristo 3.0V '91
1:27.613 - 439 - Mazda Mazdaspeed Atenza '05
1:27.762 - 433 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution III GSR '95
1:27.790 - 428 - Volkswagen Golf VI R '10
1:27.802 - 429 - Toyota Supra 3.0GT Turbo A '88
If you look closely, you'll see last weeks' Focus ST in the list
MR Competition:
1:26.876 - 408 - Lotus Elise '96
1:26.975 - 403 - Opel Speedster '00
1:27.309 - 395 - Hommell Berlinette R/S Coupe '99
1:27.991 - 404 - Toyota MR2 G-Limited '97
1:28.224 - 411 - Lotus Elise '00
1:29.592 - 378 - Toyota MR2 Spyder (6MT) '02
1:30.887 - 376 - Toyota MR2 Spyder '99
It's hard to beat the first-gen Elise, but the Opel comes very close. The MR2 Spyder is too slow to be a competitor, but the 2nd gen MR2 certainly is not, with the Elise '00 treading on that cars' heels.
At 395 pp, the Berlinette is the fastest car under 400 pp at Mid-Field. The second-fastest car under 400 pp is the Toyota Altezza RS200 '98 which is 1.2 seconds slower and has 396 pp.
The car requires a lot of concentration mid-corner, as is typical with MR cars. I can't say I'm fond of its exterior design when compared next to the Opel or Lotus, but it does look fast. I'll call it a beater since I'd rather say I own a first-gen Lotus Elise than a Hommell.
Well, not a bad job all things considered. The Hommell does nicely for what once started as a parts bin kit car. However, I have to tell you one thing; you forgot a MR car in that MR competition, the one car I'd say can match and beat an Elise: the Opel Speedster... Turbo. There is a reason why I bolded that little word, because that is what makes that Speedster a true Elise-killer. It's more neutral, more planted, and does not suffer from quite the same understeer as the Lotus. And thanks to the turbo hidden beneath the hood, it's far quicker as well. Between owning a 1st gen Elise or the Speedster, I'd prefer the Opel, to be very honest. It's just such a good car, it's hard to believe that it has the Opel badge attached to it.
Also, fun fact about the Hommell; the engine comes from a rather feisty hot hatch. Which one?
The Peugeot 306 S16 (also known as a GTI in certain countries). Not a bad engine choice, because the 306 is quite a good hot hatch. But they could've gone one up and use the 16 valve engine of the GTI-6. Just saying.
- 3,417
- NJ
- Rave2Grave
Only reason I didn't include the Speedster Turbo (or MR2 Turbo for that matter) are because it would be unfair to pit a turbo car against a non-turbo car. Now if the Hommell RS2 were in the game, that car would definitely be compared with turbo cars, since it has almost 200 hp.
Apparently they only made 200 Berlinettes in total, and 56 were RS2's...
http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/hommell-berlinette-rs2-and-vaillante-1650060405
I'm just a Lotus kind of guy.
Apparently they only made 200 Berlinettes in total, and 56 were RS2's...
http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/hommell-berlinette-rs2-and-vaillante-1650060405
I'm just a Lotus kind of guy.
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
Fair enough, I can understand that. You do seem to like Lotus quite a lot, and it's easy to see why. Very few cars can match the driving feel of an Elise, and that is why the Speedster managed to be so good; because underneath lie quite a few Elise parts...
As for the Hommell, you also reminded me of its other identity;
Ze Vaillante Grand Défi. A very interesting car, I bet it must be a riot to drive one...
- 2,817
- Lincoln
- Victory_Reign93
- Linthium Reign
Fair enough, I can understand that. You do seem to like Lotus quite a lot, and it's easy to see why. Very few cars can match the driving feel of an Elise, and that is why the Speedster managed to be so good; because underneath lie quite a few Elise parts...
As for the Hommell, you also reminded me of its other identity;
Ze Vaillante Grand Défi. A very interesting car, I bet it must be a riot to drive one...
I'll be honest, I thought that car was from the Ridge Racer series going by the name and race livery.
It probably is a riot to drive, 150kg lighter than the standard Hommel with around 150hp on tap sounds like good fun.
As for the one we have, the RS, a full weight reduction can make it 20kg lighter than the Vaillante and fully tuned can make 357hp.
@SuzukaStar shakedown laps say it has sleeper potential by punching above its sub 400PP level, how will it drive in the hands of the COTW racers?
Tune in on Tuesday at 10PM CST to find out.
(Message @McClarenDesign on PSN if you want to join.)
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
I'll be honest, I thought that car was from the Ridge Racer series going by the name and race livery.
It probably is a riot to drive, 150kg lighter than the standard Hommel with around 150hp on tap sounds like good fun.
As for the one we have, the RS, a full weight reduction can make it 20kg lighter than the Vaillante and fully tuned can make 357hp.
@SuzukaStar shakedown laps say it has sleeper potential by punching above its sub 400PP level, how will it drive in the hands of the COTW racers?
Tune in on Tuesday at 10PM CST to find out.
(Message @McClarenDesign on PSN if you want to join.)
Brah, did you even read Michel Vailant? I bet you didn't.
Jokes aside, the Grand Défi is a very curious car; it was mostly used as an one-make racing car but I bet it must be a riot to drive on the track.
Also, when did you become COTW's promotional figure? You sound like one of those vacum cleaner sellers...
- 1,723
- Pikes Peak, CO
- GTP_MPower
- What do you need this for!
Also, when did you become COTW's promotional figure? You sound like one of those vacum cleaner sellers...
Probably since he got bored with all of us and trying to bring in some new blood. I think @Vic Reign93 has quit trying and wants a challenge.
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
- 2,817
- Lincoln
- Victory_Reign93
- Linthium Reign
It's one of those "aching for a fight" sort of situations, eh?
Well bringing in new blood is all great, but getting bored with you guys?
Never, not in a million years.
If every week I was shutting out the whole grid by over a minute then I would probably agree, but that isn't and won't be the case.
Believe me, you guys are getting quicker. 👍
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
Well bringing in new blood is all great, but getting bored with you guys?
Never, not in a million years.
If every week I was shutting out the whole grid by over a minute then I would probably agree, but that isn't and won't be the case.
Believe me, you guys are getting quicker. 👍
Well, there is a saying that reads "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger." After not being throughly murdered by you in all the COTW races, I'm sure that the rest of the field must be stronger than Roman Reigns (wrestling joke). Soon, the entire field will be comprised of Sennas and Schumachers, all prepared to take the crown away from you. I'd say you giving them all a proper racing education... 👍
- 165
- Rob_on_Drums
This week's car is a great choice. With CS tires we are going to spend more time sideways than we ever have before. Perhaps a drift competition as the bonus?
