Broken Penalty System (video inside)

[jdmnsprd]

 

[TheGeologist]

At least it is only one second, but I understand the frustration. I had to rewatch the video to find the contact.

 

[jdmnsprd]

At least it is only one second, but I understand the frustration. I had to rewatch the video to find the contact.

If I would of let that 1 second penalty on and cross the finish line it would of turned into a 5 second penalty. Its not like before where you can just run your race and it goes down little by little. You have to REALLY slow down so it can go away while others drivers pass you unfortunately. That little 1 second penalty just made my race 5x harder. Polyphony need to fix this

 

[TheGeologist]

If I would of let that 1 second penalty on and cross the finish line it would of turned into a 5 second penalty.

What? I've finished with penalties and they only grow if the penalty has numbers other than zero after the decimal. In that case, it is rounded up to the next second.

 

[jdmnsprd]

What? I've finished with penalties and they only grow if the penalty has numbers other than zero after the decimal. In that case, it is rounded up to the next second.

If im about to cross the finish line and I have a 1 second penalty with 2 cars behind I literally lose 2 spots for a penalty I didnt even caused

 

[Azerach]

It's impossible for an AI to analyze a situation to determine 100% who is at fault. Being involved in contact results in penalties. Period. Blame the reckless driver, not the system.

 

[Mirror_man]

It's impossible for an AI to analyze a situation to determine 100% who is at fault. Being involved in contact results in penalties. Period. Blame the reckless driver, not the system.

Impossible is a meaningless word ... in computer technology... So stop saying rubbish.. ok??

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Impossible is a meaningless word ... in computer technology... So stop saying rubbish.. ok??

Handing out penalties always require human judgement and stewarding because like Azerach said above, there's too many factors to consider when judging a penalty. Context is also a key factor in handing out penalties that can only be judged by human stewards. You can have the same incident happen, down to the last detail, and yet I'm sure the judgement will be different according to the context of that incident. And even then, human stewarding isn't perfect in itself, because of differing views and ideals. Having an AI that can satisfy all those views and ideals, as well as reading the context of a situation, is impossible.

The penalty system has a lot to improve upon, and as it stands right now it's quite rubbish. But I'm pretty sure it will never reach a point where it will be a perfect system.

 

[Mirror_man]

Handing out penalties always require human judgement and stewarding because like Azerach said above, there's too many factors to consider when judging a penalty. Context is also a key factor in handing out penalties that can only be judged by human stewards. You can have the same incident happen, down to the last detail, and yet I'm sure the judgement will be different according to the context of that incident. And even then, human stewarding isn't perfect in itself, because of differing views and ideals. Having an AI that can satisfy all those views and ideals, as well as reading the context of a situation, is impossible.

The penalty system has a lot to improve upon, and as it stands right now it's quite rubbish. But I'm pretty sure it will never reach a point where it will be a perfect system.

Impossible is to have a perfect system... but to have a more correct one is quite possible... and as you know not even God is perfect...

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Impossible is to have a perfect system... but to have a more correct one is quite possible... and has you know not even God is perfect...

A better system is certainly possible
Choose your words though, some might not like you saying God isn't perfect (not me though, I don't believe)

 

[Mirror_man]

A better system is certainly possible
Choose your words though, some might not like you saying God isn't perfect (not me though, I don't believe)

How can He be?? Such an unfinished job He made with Mankind...

 

[Alpha Cipher]

How can He be?? Such an unfinished job He made with Mankind...

"Ah, I think I messed up making people. Guess I'm gonna start over"
*kills the whole population save for eight people*

Still manages to mess up again

 

[Lord Protector]

This is nothing... i got 10 seconds penalty because a car bumped into me and because of GTS ping-pong physics I bumped into car before me.

 

[VBR]

So, no penalty for all four wheels over white lines, but you do get one for swapping paint (I couldn't even spot any contact). I hated GT5 Prologue because of the stupid penalties, was so glad when GT5 came out & we could run our own public lobbies & turn that nonsense off. GTS is a big step backwards imho, & I have no interest whatsoever in playing sport mode. And that's coming from someone who's main thing is online racing. Such an epic fail...

 

[Pedinhuh]

It's impossible for an AI to analyze a situation to determine 100% who is at fault. Being involved in contact results in penalties. Period. Blame the reckless driver, not the system.

You can blame the system as well for not having checks in the braking zones.

It downright stupid how the game can't determine where in the track you should brake and where you shouldn't brake.

 

[phil_75]

Spin out, lose 2nd place, drop to 12th and get a 10sec penalty just to top it off.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

You can blame the system as well for not having checks in the braking zones.

It downright stupid how the game can't determine where in the track you should brake and where you shouldn't brake.

The problem is our braking zones vary. Sure maybe at A+ it would be a few millimeters, but a C driver might brake one whole meter board earlier. A perfect example is Nurb GP's final chicane. Most people from D-C (and even some B ranks) brake at the 150m board, whereas mid-B and above start to brake halfway through 150 and 100. The more experienced ones brake at the 100m board and compensate for the excessive entry-speed with an earlier turn-in

The AI also brakes during the esses at Yamagiwa, and the lower-ranked people might not be able to find the steering rhythm to take it flat-out. Worst case is that they mess up and brake at the esses

Maybe the penalty system would have its braking parameters inputted by people, but on the offset that it bases its braking point parameters on the AI's behavior instead, then "braking" on the Yamagiwa esses would be acceptable. Nothing would change at all

If the former is true, then what would the braking-point parameters be? What skill level should they obey? Would it be D-class and let people off with lifting at Yamagiwa, or A+ where you would get penalies for braking where you usually would? Or would it have a categorized system where each rank would have their own set of braking point parameters? What would happen on multi-rank races, which happens 99% of the time?

 

[MrBrunoA]

Racing at Gardens yesterday, the guy in front of me had a penalty from a contact with me flashing for the whole race. Strangely, I didn't get any and used the warning on his car for my strategy of not forcing an overtake, knowing that he'd have at least 1 second to serve. But when we crossed the finishing line, with my car constantly on his slipstream (less than 1 sec difference), he appears with no penalty at all and wins the race. So he didn't have any penalty, though the penalty sign had been flashing above his car for the whole race. Not the first time I've seen this, but yesterday just confirmed there's a glitch. Has anyone else seen this happen?

 

[Dairyworker]

I think the tolerance for impact needs to be lessened a lot. Getting a random penalty after two laps of door to door bumper to bumper racing where there has been no noticeable contact is getting really annoying. It has ruined more than a handful of great intense races letely for me

 

[winet]

I ran a few one make races yesterday and got a 3 second penalty for a light tap of the car in front of me slowing up drastically in a turn. To be fair to implement a real time penalty system is extremely ambitious and difficult.
iRacing deals with this issue by using a grossly over exaggerated damage system where the slightest tap can render your car useless. Especially any wheel contact

 

[Mirror_man]

Racing at Gardens yesterday, the guy in front of me had a penalty from a contact with me flashing for the whole race. Strangely, I didn't get any and used the warning on his car for my strategy of not forcing an overtake, knowing that he'd have at least 1 second to serve. But when we crossed the finishing line, with my car constantly on his slipstream (less than 1 sec difference), he appears with no penalty at all and wins the race. So he didn't have any penalty, though the penalty sign had been flashing above his car for the whole race. Not the first time I've seen this, but yesterday just confirmed there's a glitch. Has anyone else seen this happen?

More than once... keeps happening all the time...

 

[TT92]

The problem is our braking zones vary. Sure maybe at A+ it would be a few millimeters, but a C driver might brake one whole meter board earlier. A perfect example is Nurb GP's final chicane. Most people from D-C (and even some B ranks) brake at the 150m board, whereas mid-B and above start to brake halfway through 150 and 100. The more experienced ones brake at the 100m board and compensate for the excessive entry-speed with an earlier turn-in

The AI also brakes during the esses at Yamagiwa, and the lower-ranked people might not be able to find the steering rhythm to take it flat-out. Worst case is that they mess up and brake at the esses

Maybe the penalty system would have its braking parameters inputted by people, but on the offset that it bases its braking point parameters on the AI's behavior instead, then "braking" on the Yamagiwa esses would be acceptable. Nothing would change at all

If the former is true, then what would the braking-point parameters be? What skill level should they obey? Would it be D-class and let people off with lifting at Yamagiwa, or A+ where you would get penalies for braking where you usually would? Or would it have a categorized system where each rank would have their own set of braking point parameters? What would happen on multi-rank races, which happens 99% of the time?

The game already knows where the braking points are. Turn on driving line assists and the game gives you two orange cones of where to brake. So add 10% to the distance to allow for less experienced drivers and there have it, you got a system that can identify who is in the wrong and not penalise the car in front legitimately braking for a corner. And once you start heavily penalising the shunters I am sure they will either learn to drive properly or go back to playing CoD on their hand controllers ;-)

The next easy things to achieve is: in the case of an accident, car to car contact or car to barrier contact any subsequent contacts in that zone should be instantly nullified so innocent bystanders don't get penalised for contacting out of control wreckage. Or if a vehicle has all 4 wheels off the race track and re-enters the track and makes contact they should be the only one to get a penalty. This is one of my pet hates >:-(

This is not rocket science or needing anymore CPU power from the PS4. The current system is lazy and just plain wrong.

And then, once this gets ironed out we discuss dive bombers, calculating overlap and side impacts.

 

[fastone371]

The other massive problem with the penalty system right now is that it appears penalties and the severity are handed out based on DR levels or a combination of DR/SR levels, It shouldn't matter if the guy who runs me off the track is a lower level than me he still needs to be penalized as severely as a higher level driver would be in the same situation.

 

[DaigoD]

Quick question.

When does a penalty start to rise automatically? I was under the impression that it rises automatically when it’s over 5 seconds. But then I have seen a few videos online lately where this doesn’t seem to happen. When did this change?

 

[Mirror_man]

Guys!!!??

Have you found out any changes on this crappy penalty system??? Or does it still remains as before update ??,

 

[Moglet]

In the original post is there a chance that networking issues could have played a part? You were very close to the car in front and the slightest slowdown in connection may have caused the game to think you hit them instead of someone hitting you. Unfortunately there's no perfect answer for the penalty system other than human judgement and even then that can be flawed or interpreted in different ways.

 

[Mirror_man]

In the original post is there a chance that networking issues could have played a part? You were very close to the car in front and the slightest slowdown in connection may have caused the game to think you hit them instead of someone hitting you. Unfortunately there's no perfect answer for the penalty system other than human judgement and even then that can be flawed or interpreted in different ways.

Perfection.. is the main enemy to true achievement... but seeking it, is always a must do!!

This means basically... that a perfect system will never be achieved, but one better then the current is perfectly possible, (as long as the game developer really wants to do it), and not trying to improve it simply because it will never be perfect, is an excuse that may only come from those that don´t care about what is expected from them...

It was not me (nor you!!!!) that released a game announcing the the whole World in big letters and loud noise, that it was be the best racing game and online simulation EVER!!!!!

 

[Crazy Taylor]

Quick question.

When does a penalty start to rise automatically? I was under the impression that it rises automatically when it’s over 5 seconds. But then I have seen a few videos online lately where this doesn’t seem to happen. When did this change?

After 10 seconds, rises to 1 minute (1s per second), then 20s warning, then disconnection.

 

[MrCooper]

Yesterday I did two daily B races with Gr. 2 at Interlagos. Had contact with other cars (even DR B, while I'm DR A myself) multiple times without getting penalties. Is the penalty system more tolerant about slight contact since the 1.19 update, or did I just get lucky?

 

[GA 52]

I agree with most of you - the penalty system itself is too strict and not in line with real racing using the kerbs etc. makes too many just leaving the GTS game and find something else. SAD. 👎