BWM 330I vs Lexus IS 350

[niky]

"Soul" in a car often equates to how unreliable it is... in other words, most Japanese cars are completely soul-less.

By that rule, BMWs have a bit of soul, and Italians have it in spades. I remember in one article how Clarkson talks about how much he loved his old V6 Alfa, despite it being one of the worst dogs he'd ever owned. He harps on NEW BMWs for a lack of soul... for being a little too perfect. I guess, for us blokes who don't own a Ford GT, that's probably not an issue.

My car isn't exactly a rocket, either... (at least it can outrun most minivans)... and it's not quite Honda-reliable, but I love it for that thrum through the fingertips you get when driving. That Mazda-ishness thing is just impossible to find in anything else... except maybe cars with a blue-and-white roundel. 👍

Not many new cars I've tried, no matter how fast, or how sharp, can quite give me that same feeling of connectedness you get in a Mazda.

I echo YSSMAN... Give me an old 325 with a stick shift... please. But then, I'm a throwback... I've had more fun in an hour's driving of a 95hp old econobox on 14" steelies than most people have in a lifetime with a V8 on the highway. 0-60 never quite seems to matter as much to me as 0-full lock.

 

[YSSMAN]

I've had more fun in an hour's driving of a 95hp old econobox on 14" steelies than most people have in a lifetime with a V8 on the highway. 0-60 never quite seems to matter as much to me as 0-full lock

I know what you mean... Back when the '93 Fox was still in service, that sucka was a bomber with it's 91HP, on 13" steelies no less! God I miss that car, and even tho it was falling apart and really hated the cold weather here in Michigan, I will always remember that car because of the identity that it had, and how much fun it was to drive.

BMW's may lack soul in comparison to some companies like Alfa Romeo as Clarkson has pointed out numerous ammounts of times, but I think that they still have a greater identity by comparison to even an Audi or Mercedes, and esp. Lexus or Infiniti. I've only had a try with a few different Bimmers in my life, most of them 3-series models, but they were damn near perfect every time.

I just dont know what it is about those cars. I think it might be a combination of the looks and the engine, matched with a great transmission... I just dont know. A 325ci or a 530i would be great to have in my garage, and although I am a GM/VAG guy at heart, I still wouldnt mind having a Bimmer sometime in the near future...

 

[Wolfe]

"Soul" in a car often equates to how unreliable it is... in other words, most Japanese cars are completely soul-less.

By that rule, BMWs have a bit of soul, and Italians have it in spades.

Exactly, though there are exceptions...I personally think that almost every american car built from the 1980's onward lacks soul...but many of them aren't reliable, either.

Americans are finding soul again these days, such as the 300C, '05- Mustang, Camaro concept...but it has yet to reach the "ordinary" models again.

I know what you mean... Back when the '93 Fox was still in service, that sucka was a bomber with it's 91HP, on 13" steelies no less! God I miss that car, and even tho it was falling apart and really hated the cold weather here in Michigan, I will always remember that car because of the identity that it had, and how much fun it was to drive.

Hey, that reminds me...I happened to run across the thread where you thought your Fox could keep up with the BMW 700RS racecar... I was like, YSSMAN? Whut?

 

[YSSMAN]

...Was that back on Supercars.net? I think I remember that one!

LoL! Good times!

Oh God was I ever in love with that car, I just miss her soooooo much. I still think a lot of people underrate the car's performance, as it was about as quick as the higher-level Golfs and Jettas, due mostly to the lower weight. Sure, power was down a bit, but it was an easy fix on the car, as it really only needed to breathe a bit better.

...Its funny to look back at Supercars.net. God that website sucks ass now...

 

[neanderthal]

i never ever ever, got in my corolla, or honda civic after work, and just looked around, took in its ambiance, remarked at how well designed, thought out, put together it was. i just got in and drove.

in my 1976 BMW 2002, and 1990 mercedes 300E, theres times when im just amazed at the car. it often occurs just when i get in the car, sometimes when im driving, lke yesterday when i was coming back from vegas and the benz was tearing up the road in total serenity. i even turned off the stereo and listened to the hum of the tires just under the wind noise. oddly enough, while i could hear those, i could hear the fan going over them, but the sound wasnt obstrusive in anyway. the fan was merrily humming along in the background, keeping me cool, and just below it you could hear the tires and wind noise.


ive never stopped and appreciated any japanese car i drove. even when i got t boned in my corolla the first thought was "thank god, now i can get rid of it." it was a souless appliance of a car, that could do whatever i needed it to do, but brought me no joy. and to me thats the essence of soul.
*ive sat in my benz in the rain and traced the arc of the (solo) windshield wiper and just marvelled at how effective the wiper was and how much screen it wiped.
*i also get blown by how the wiper starts on the drivers side, and clears the windscreen right away, as opposed to bringing all the rain from the other side first, then clearing it.
*that also happens when i start the car in cold weather with the climate control set to something warm; the fan doesnt blow any air until its reached the desired tempertature. not impressice in and off itself, but when you realise that the 300E was first available in 1984 thats mindblowing.
*and how the coolant runs through the windshield washer bottle so that in case the car is under snow, there will be warm water available (if the car was plugged in overnight) to melt the snow in the morning
*after any long trip im always impressed by how much of a serene high speed cocoon the car is. it doesnt isolate you from what yorue doing like a typical japanese car, but keeps you informed of just how much of what is going on; throttle input, steering input, brake feel, body motion, suspension response. the feel is different. i know when im on the verge of lockup in my BMW. (benz has ABS) the steering loads up progressively, as do the brakes. in my moms galant and my brothers camry and every other japanese car, theres no "feel" to pretty much all the controls. you input and get a response, but its lacking in feedback.

to me that epitomises soul. those small near intangible things that make you swell with pride.

BMW over lexus.

 

[Pupik]

The general consensus from my Lexus customers seems to be: "If it has enough power, than an automatic is good enough". However, there have been questions from some people, usually along the lines of: "Why isn't there a stick in the 350, it's in the 250?"

I think Toyota will eventually give in, and put a stick in the car; however, it's going depend on what the actual buyers request in their surveys, since that's usually how Lexus does things. Considering 99% of the owners never take it to the track, it's usually forgotten after driving the car for a while.

Secondly, for the market I live in, few people drive a car that's stick, unless the car can't get out of it's own way doe to a lack of power. Roads are generally boring and straight here; downshifting is primarily done uponm reaching stoplights, not curves in the road.

I like the features of the new IS, but I don't like the steering feel of the new one, compared to the previous-generation's feel. The VGRS feels more like a video game, compared to a real car. It's really damn forgiving, but I'd rather it transmitted to my hands and arms more feeling when the wheels are turned, just like the original IS 300.

I haven't driven the latest 3-series at all yet, so I'm not making a comparison.

Anyhow, I'll let my bias enter the thread, but that's because I can get it cheaper than most people, and get it serviced while I work.

 

[YSSMAN]

Great post Neanderthal, +1!

I personally find it so amazing that so many people "prefer" Japanese cars to any other simply because they are soooooooooooo boring. My Mom's friend just bought a 2007 Toyota Camry, and generally speaking, the only "exciting" thing about the car is that it is electic blue. The interior is boring, the exterior is ugly, and it all just feels too sterile compared to my 10-year old VW. Call me a snooty European car lover, but I just cannot stand to be in Japanese cars anymore.

...American car makers may attempt to match the Japanese in most circumstances, but generally speaking, atleast they still feel good to ride in and to drive, and actually have textures and other surfaces that look interesting compared to any Honda or Toyota.

 

[daggoth]

*after any long trip im always impressed by how much of a serene high speed cocoon the car is. it doesnt isolate you from what yorue doing like a typical japanese car, but keeps you informed of just how much of what is going on; throttle input, steering input, brake feel, body motion, suspension response. the feel is different. i know when im on the verge of lockup in my BMW. (benz has ABS) the steering loads up progressively, as do the brakes. in my moms galant and my brothers camry and every other japanese car, theres no "feel" to pretty much all the controls. you input and get a response, but its lacking in feedback.

to me that epitomises soul. those small near intangible things that make you swell with pride.

BMW over lexus.

Sorry but I have an 86' Supra and it feels just like that as well.

I don't think that you can compare a Corolla or Civic to any BMW, it's a totally different concept of car, like you said your corolla did everything you wanted so why was it so bad?? Because it didn't bring you any joy, because it was soul-less... what? You're going to tell me that a VW Golf or a Mazda 3 isn't the same?

 

[YSSMAN]

No, a VW Golf is just as soulful as any BMW or Mercedes. It comes down to the way that they build their cars, really the way all German cars are built. They have this concept of "feeling" the road and generally speaking, "feeling" what the car is doing with every inch of travel.

Mazda is a good example of a Japanese car company that has it figured out to include the "feel" factor in their cars. Of course, Ford has done it's best to water that down recently, but the Protoge will always hold a special place to me for best small Japanese car.

Daggoth, I think you missed the point of the conversation... It isnt about how well the car performs for you, its about how the car talks to you, how it acts with you, sort of like an extension of your body when you are driving down the road. I've driven enough Toyotas, Nissans, Hondas, Mazdas, etc. to see a signifigant difference between any of those and any American or German model. The problem is that although their cars are great, they just dont talk back like a VW or BMW would. The steering feels disconnected, the suspension too buttery, and the noises of the car just too quiet.

If you like vanilla-cars, you cant go wrong with a Japanese car. But most sane people would rather have chocolate, strawberry, or even Superman. German automakers have it right with every level of automobile. I dont care what country you like your cars to come from, German cars do the best job at getting the "feeling" right.

 

[daggoth]

I dunno, I've driven an MKV Golf, an Audi A3 and the New Opel Astra (this one isn't very German I know) and they all feel the same to me. Maybe it's just me but I cannot teel the difference. And btw, I like Toyotas I'll admit that, but I don't like the new Corolla :S I've never driven a Mazda though, but I would like to very much

 

[YSSMAN]

Mazdas are truely the Germans of the Japanese market. There is feeling everywhere in the car, and it loves to talk back when you drive them hard. The "Zoom Zoom" attitude they convey is a good one, but I do sometimes fear that the feeeling is going away over at Mazda. The Mazda3 is a good example of what is going on. The transition from Protege to 3 added weight, incresed the numbness of the steering and suspension, and most certainly increased the price. That leaves the "Zoom Zoom" to the special eddition models, along with the dedicated sports cars like the MX-5 and RX-8. It is the end of Mazda as we know it? Not hardly, but it is dissapointing when they ruin a car that was considered to be the best in it's class...

 

[neanderthal]

Sorry but I have an 86' Supra and it feels just like that as well.

I don't think that you can compare a Corolla or Civic to any BMW, it's a totally different concept of car, like you said your corolla did everything you wanted so why was it so bad?? Because it didn't bring you any joy, because it was soul-less... what? You're going to tell me that a VW Golf or a Mazda 3 isn't the same?

you can absolutely compare a corolla to a BMW. my BMW 2002 is a 1976 model year car, a small four banger making 100hp. my corolla was a 1990 model year car. making the same hp. the 15 year older is a more "complete" car than the corolla, and by complete im talking abut the relationship between the driver and the car.

the various japanese vehicles weve owned in my extended family have paled in comparison to the german cars; mazdas, toyotas, nissan,hondas, mitsubishis, isuzu, diahatsu (although i was a wee bairn at the time. i could ask my mom, but my mom is as enthusiastic about cars as i am about getting a venereal disease!!) datsun, mitsubishi. those are the japanese brands that i have driven that were owned by my parents or uncles and aunts. my grandad had a toyota cressida that was the smoothest car id ever been. never was able to look at it and be impressed with the car. it was competent. performed well. but evoked no passion.

my dad preferred his older BMW cheetah (south africa only model) to his newer datsun laurel with power everything. the laurel was the nissan versino of toyotas cressida. the cressida was the car that convinced toyota they could make a luxury car, the nub thta beget lexus. my dad had the nissan version, and preferred his 20 year older BMW to it.

anyway, it comes down to preferance. i was satisfied with the japanese cars i owned. i still own the german ones. still love them.