DLC in GT5?

[iLex]

Ofcourse there is good DLC.

My point was that DLC can be misleading and that GT5 without DLC could well be a more complete game than many other racing games with DLC.

So saying that it is dated to not have DLC might not yield the wanted result.

Granted, I didn't make that point all too clear.

 

[Falango]

If (big IF, hoping there won't be any at all) there will be paid DLC to be offered for free as a compensation for the delay, I really hope they won't appear until at least 6 months-1 year since the game release date. Any less would be a clear sign PD held back them to milk cash-cows/players. Of course, GT5P-like free DLC is very much welcome anytime.

Sorry, just had to counterbalance users who are are already resigned, or worse, willing to pay more right after the release date.

Doesn't necessarily mean they purposely held back content to get more money later on. Some content just may not have been done in time. Heck maybe Kaz sees cars that are unveiled now that he wish were in the game, but weren't available for inclusion at the time (2012 Focus ST, Lotus concepts at the Paris Auto Show, Lamborghini Sesto Elemento concept, or the new Jota).

 

[SolidSnakex]

If (big IF, hoping there won't be any at all) there will be paid DLC to be offered for free as a compensation for the delay, I really hope they won't appear until at least 6 months-1 year since the game release date. Any less would be a clear sign PD held back them to milk cash-cows/players. Of course, GT5P-like free DLC is very much welcome anytime.

Given all the content that the game has, i'd say that's it's obvious that they aren't holding anything back. But there's a very realistic possibility that they're still working on cars that could be finished a month or so after the game is in stores. The Honda HSV is a good example of this as Kaz has said that he didn't know if its modeling would be complete by the time the game is ready for release.

 

[iAMgt5]

Or maybe they can continue transforming popular standard cars to premium.

that would be great. in fact, if they DON'T do that, i'll be surprised.

I'd hope there is some free DLC available as compensation. Maybe a few free cars, some additional challenges in the special schools and challenges area.

you're right ... but i think to be fair, and to reward those that had actually pre-ordered, they should offer us a day-1 token (or something like that) to be used in the future for DLC of our choice. this can be something we receive by providing proof of our pre-orders dated prior to the latest delay announcement.

If (big IF, hoping there won't be any at all) there will be paid DLC to be offered for free as a compensation for the delay, I really hope they won't appear until at least 6 months-1 year since the game release date. Any less would be a clear sign PD held back them to milk cash-cows/players. Of course, GT5P-like free DLC is very much welcome anytime.

Sorry, just had to counterbalance users who are are already resigned, or worse, willing to pay more right after the release date.

i don't understand why you wouldn't want DLC. sure, some game publishers do pretty crappy moves by offering dlc immediately, but i'd rather my game's life get extended by more cars, more tracks, more challenges.

 

[drdonutman]

I'd be perfectly fine if the added cars as they came out but that's it, they obviously need time for GT6.

 

[iAMgt5]

it's a bit pre-mature to hold your breath for GT6, if not down right suicidal

 

[shirakawaa]

i don't understand why you wouldn't want DLC. sure, some game publishers do pretty crappy moves by offering dlc immediately, but i'd rather my game's life get extended by more cars, more tracks, more challenges.

No, don't get me wrong: I want DLC.
Just free as it should be and as it's been (for pc games) until new-gen consoles arrived a few years ago.

Especially if it's DLC that should have been in the game since the start but didn't due to time constraints, it simply has to be free.

 

[Falango]

you're right ... but i think to be fair, and to reward those that had actually pre-ordered, they should offer us a day-1 token (or something like that) to be used in the future for DLC of our choice. this can be something we receive by providing proof of our pre-orders dated prior to the latest delay announcement.

I agree. Something to compensate for those that have already pre-ordered, because they are obviously diehard fans that can't wait.

 

[analog]

you're right ... but i think to be fair, and to reward those that had actually pre-ordered, they should offer us a day-1 token (or something like that) to be used in the future for DLC of our choice. this can be something we receive by providing proof of our pre-orders dated prior to the latest delay announcement.

Why only to those who pre-ordered, are you a special bunch deserving special treatment?
Come on, the delay is the same for each one anticipating the darn game, if an apology was issued ( which I doubt ) then it would be fair to include it in each newly sold copy.

 

[Falango]

It's been done before. A friend of mine pre ordered a book, and it got delayed. Anyone who pre ordered got upgraded to the next edition up. I believe those who pre ordered the top edition got compensated with a limited edition autographed print of the concept art. Of course everyone that wants the game has to wait the same, but people that pre ordered already put money down for it to reserve their copy. This is money that's already in PD's pocket.

 

[iAMgt5]

No, don't get me wrong: I want DLC.
Just free as it should be and as it's been (for pc games) until new-gen consoles arrived a few years ago.

Especially if it's DLC that should have been in the game since the start but didn't due to time constraints, it simply has to be free.

my fault, i mis-read your post in thinking you were hoping there wouldn't be any DLC, but after re-reading, i see you were hoping there wouldn't be PAID DLC. go figure, you even had it underlined ... heheh.

Why only to those who pre-ordered, are you a special bunch deserving special treatment?
Come on, the delay is the same for each one anticipating the darn game, if an apology was issued ( which I doubt ) then it would be fair to include it in each newly sold copy.

nothing very special about us really, just that we had already committed to buying the game. i would consider a group as that a pretty loyal bunch. loyalty often goes rewarded in our society, so i don't see it being a huge thing if we were to get a little s'thin s'thin.

 

[analog]

The same money I'll pay in one time when the game is released, just because some have paid an amount in advance ( and already getting a bonus for doing so in the form of Stealth cars ) doesn't mean in my book they are therefore more entitled to be offered special treatment for more free DLC due to a delay which also affects those who haven't pre-ordered a copy.

How does ordering something in advance show loyalty by the way or that you're more of a die-hard fan ( not that I care for those titles by the way )?
I still have all previous GT games and one TT game and knew all along that GT5 was a first day buy for me despite none of these games being pre-ordered.
How can loyalty be measured ( as if that were to be desired in the first place ) anyway? Just by paying in advance?

If loyalty or being a fan is indeed measured by paying something in advance ( which, granted, is a choice for everyone to make I guess ) which was already being rewarded with free DLC isn't it a bit strange to then ask again for an extra reward purely for an 'elite' group whilst the delay affects all?
Is that true loyalty to expect a better deal from the company you support?

But I guess that's how market forces work, just don't claim to being more of a fan, more 'loyal' to the franchise as a whole ( to which succes I also contributed but buying most products ) or looking forward to GT5 much more simply for paying in advance, which is simply too simple.

 

[iAMgt5]

Loyalty goes both ways. Loyalty is a commitment of sorts, if not just straight up. By committing to purchase a game, and depositing money with said commitment, we've shown the game manufacturers that we will buy the game regardless of future situations. (Sure, people can renege on buying it, but that will be money down the drain for them). So essentially, if a person that's on the fence about buying a game decides against buying it due to bad press, financial reasons, or ANY reason, that's one less sale for the company. Not to say that a person who didn't pre-order but buys it anyway is not as loyal to a series, but that person hasn't demonstrated any prior commitment to the purchase.

Those of us who have pre-ordered have already committed to our purchase, again, at our loss if we choose to change course. Likewise, the company had committed a date to us -- Nov. 2nd. Sure, release dates aren't etched in stone and are liable to change, blah blah blah legal mumble jumble, but still, they led us along with that date. So now, is it too much to ask this company to reward us for our commitment? I don't think so.

If you're truly upset about a statement as this, I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[eSZee]

my fault, i mis-read your post in thinking you were hoping there wouldn't be any DLC, but after re-reading, i see you were hoping there wouldn't be PAID DLC. go figure, you even had it underlined ... heheh.



nothing very special about us really, just that we had already committed to buying the game. i would consider a group as that a pretty loyal bunch. loyalty often goes rewarded in our society, so i don't see it being a huge thing if we were to get a little s'thin s'thin.

You can cancel the pre order at any time and in the end, if you pay for the game you pay for the game whether you do it the day you buy it or 5 years ahead. SOny thinks no different of you. PLus, that pre-order money helps the place at which you pre order, not SONY. Sony doesn't see the money til GS or whatever calls for shipment.

 

[analog]

Those of us who have pre-ordered have already committed to our purchase, again, at our loss if we choose to change course. Likewise, the company had committed a date to us -- Nov. 2nd. Sure, release dates aren't etched in stone and are liable to change, blah blah blah legal mumble jumble, but still, they led us along with that date. So now, is it too much to ask this company to reward us for our commitment? I don't think so.

If you're truly upset about a statement as this, I'm not sure what to tell you.

First off I agree with what Dave mentioned above and again, did PD only led those who pre-ordered along to believe the game was going to be released on November the 2nd?
And no I'm not upset, just extremely baffled and amused at the same time some can only think of themselves or feel an entitlement due to paying part of the money we all have to pay in advance and already received a bonus in doing so.

It's a choice which you already have been rewarded for, therefore your supposed loyalty has been rewarded.
This delay isn't a choice, it affects all, and an apology or gesture to all the fans who buy GT5 new ( preordered, ordered, online or bought in a shop ) in the form of free DLC would to me seem much more fair and it wouldn't affect you as you would still have the same free DLC as everyone else ( or is that the problem? ).
Why you think it would be logical to be rewarded twice whilst those who pay the same money don't deserve anything as their loyalty, commitment or intention can't be proven seems to me absurd.

Everybody is paying the same amount of money for a certain version of the game, pre-ordering is just a part of marketing strategy not meaning anything more than what it is, hoping to secure a deal by offering extra goodies.
If you want to attach a meaning of loyalty or whatever onto that it's up to you if you like to fool yourself into believing that but you can't claim a special treatment due to it because in the end we're all just faceless consumers not making any impact or are remembered by a company as large as Sony or PD.

 

[iAMgt5]

You can cancel the pre order at any time and in the end, if you pay for the game you pay for the game whether you do it the day you buy it or 5 years ahead. SOny thinks no different of you. PLus, that pre-order money helps the place at which you pre order, not SONY. Sony doesn't see the money til GS or whatever calls for shipment.

I'm not talking about canceling an order or whatever you're on about. I know I can do whatever I want because that's a choice I have as a consumer. Any company looks at #s ... and yes, we're all just #s to them. They look at how many pre-orders have been booked, both as an indication of demand and in the case of special collectibles, how many to make.

First off I agree with what Dave mentioned above and again, did PD only led those who pre-ordered along to believe the game was going to be released on November the 2nd?
And no I'm not upset, just extremely baffled and amused at the same time some can only think of themselves or feel an entitlement due to paying part of the money we all have to pay in advance and already received a bonus in doing so.

It's a choice which you already have been rewarded for, therefore your supposed loyalty has been rewarded.
This delay isn't a choice, it affects all, and an apology or gesture to all the fans who buy GT5 new ( preordered, ordered, online or bought in a shop ) in the form of free DLC would to me seem much more fair and it wouldn't affect you as you would still have the same free DLC as everyone else ( or is that the problem? ).
Why you think it would be logical to be rewarded twice whilst those who pay the same money don't deserve anything as their loyalty, commitment or intention can't be proven seems to me absurd.

Everybody is paying the same amount of money for a certain version of the game, pre-ordering is just a part of marketing strategy not meaning anything more than what it is, hoping to secure a deal by offering extra goodies.
If you want to attach a meaning of loyalty or whatever onto that it's up to you if you like to fool yourself into believing that but you can't claim a special treatment due to it because in the end we're all just faceless consumers not making any impact or are remembered by a company as large as Sony or PD.

No, Sony didn't lead ONLY pre-order people to believe the Nov. 2nd date. However, we chose to commit. I don't care if someone else gets the same thing or not. I don't see why you're taking this as an offense to you because you didn't pre-order.

Suppose you're about to create something new, but to do so, you need a commitment from folks to secure your own production costs. You tell your customers they'll have their product on X date. You take pre-orders, raise a good amount of money, and as a reward to those who supported you with these pre-orders, you offer them a free toaster when their product is finished. However, things come up and you can't make the date you had intended on. Would it be such a travesty if you offered an additional reward to those who supported you?

Sure, Sony's not some nickel-and-dime outfit, but maybe breaking it down simplistically will help you understand. And if I'm missing something, do point it out using my simple example so maybe I can be enlightened.

But in order to not take this way off-topic as we already have, maybe we should carry the convo over to the general section or something.

If you choose to respond, just point me to wherever we can carry on.

My apologies to the OP for hijacking.

 

[Spacegoat]

Personally, I don't really like Downloadable content, I would rather buy the full hog right from the off. I would struggle to justify spending over £100 on a game, hopefully it cots less than that to get everything.

This:tup:

 

[fkuk]

yes if their free

 

[analog]

No, Sony didn't lead ONLY pre-order people to believe the Nov. 2nd date. However, we chose to commit. I don't care if someone else gets the same thing or not. I don't see why you're taking this as an offense to you because you didn't pre-order.

Suppose you're about to create something new, but to do so, you need a commitment from folks to secure your own production costs. You tell your customers they'll have their product on X date. You take pre-orders, raise a good amount of money, and as a reward to those who supported you with these pre-orders, you offer them a free toaster when their product is finished. However, things come up and you can't make the date you had intended on. Would it be such a travesty if you offered an additional reward to those who supported you?

Sure, Sony's not some nickel-and-dime outfit, but maybe breaking it down simplistically will help you understand. And if I'm missing something, do point it out using my simple example so maybe I can be enlightened.

But in order to not take this way off-topic as we already have, maybe we should carry the convo over to the general section or something.

If you choose to respond, just point me to wherever we can carry on.

My apologies to the OP for hijacking.

It's not off-topic as it still is about DLC, free DLC and how it could be implemented as a gesture for this delay ( hypothetically ).
But I won't carry on having this discussion for long as you clearly fail to understand the simple logic that the commitment you indeed showed by pre-ordering the game ( and which I didn't but still could ) has already been rewarded by being offered those DLC Stealth cars.

This commitment doesn't extend to limitless 'special treatment' as all people who buy GT5 new in the end pay the same amount and are all affected by this delay ( at least those who planned to get GT5 on the first day ).
Marketingwise how would it appear if only those who pre-ordered received free DLC when they've already received the goodies for making this choice?
Yes it would make people consider to also pre-order in the future perhaps and again this would just be a cynical marketing strategy to secure a deal, not anything to do with commitment, loyalty or being a fan.

Most people who pre-order don't care about commitment or loyalty, they just want the goodies attached ( which is fair enough and understandable, not deluding themselves into thinking it's anything more than that ).
If PD truly cared about all fans ( and recognised they aren't categorized for the way they choose to buy the game ) they would offer a free DLC pack to all who bought GT5.

Think of it this way, Sony or PD are large company depending partly on customer satisfaction who wish to please each customer to secure goodwill and loyalty for all those who paid the full price of a new game.
Or maybe don't care ( or aware ) whether you're a loyal long-time fan or a new customer or casual gamer as long as they can persuade each single one they are treated equally in a situation which isn't a choice being made to secure future loyalty and deals.

If your 'commitment' was indeed a sacrifice to pay in advance to a company supplying a product in the future making sure they get by and produce it also for those who haven't made that commitment then you would deserve a gesture.
Thing is, you didn't, you made a deal for which you got a return or reward beforehand ( free DLC cars ) and which in itself is just a clever marketing deal which is only relevant to the retail branch you made it with.
You didn't sacrifice anything or took a risk or gamble, you just secured a few extra cars for yourself by a deliberate choice and therefore feel entitled to get even more in this situation by bringing up stuff which isn't relevant.
And PD doesn't need money in advance anyway, they are one of the most succesful game developers around, not some upstart company depending on a shoestring budget ( and I'm one of the millions of people who contributed to that by buying most of their games ).

 

[iAMgt5]

i'm not even sure you read my previous reply ...

Suppose you're about to create something new, but to do so, you need a commitment from folks to secure your own production costs. You tell your customers they'll have their product on X date. You take pre-orders, raise a good amount of money, and as a reward to those who supported you with these pre-orders, you offer them a free toaster when their product is finished. However, things come up and you can't make the date you had intended on. Would it be such a travesty if you offered an additional reward to those who supported you? Or, maybe to put it this way, to those who ALREADY COMMITTED to your product?

Sure, Sony's not some nickel-and-dime outfit, but maybe breaking it down simplistically will help you understand. And if I'm missing something, do point it out using my simple example so maybe I can be enlightened.

Regardless, healthy discourse is fine, but at this point, it doesn't seem we'll be able to convince the other of whichever way we feel.

How about I stay deluded into thinking I should get a little something extra and you stay deluded into thinking that's wrong?

 

[analog]

How about I stay deluded into thinking I should get a little something extra and you stay deluded into thinking that's wrong?

Doesn't seem you're able to do otherwise and yes, I did read your posts.
I bought Prologue a few years ago and paid the full price for it which went straight to PD/Sony to cover the development costs of GT5.
I assumed, since the title was Prologue, the full title would arrive much sooner then it eventually did ( in fact we still don't have it ) and paid an additional amount for a seperate game unlike partly paying an amount of the full price for the full game in advance ( which added up is the same amount we both have to pay for GT5 so those who did buy Prologue supported PD much more than those who pre-ordered ).

This was my choice to do and I got a nice but limited game in return to pass the time and therefore don't expect them to treat me any different than those who just buy GT5, why would they?
You made a choice to partly pay the amount of the full game in advance giving you a bonus in the form of free DLC.

Don't know whether you bought Prologue ( my guess is you did ) but wouldn't it be much fairer to reward those who made an additional purchase instead of those who pay the same but in different installments if a distrinction should be made in the first place?
What do I care if free DLC is offered as an apology to all those who buy GT5 as long as I get it?
It was my choice to make an additional purchase and I already got something for doing so, and so do you by pre-ordering.

 

[DG_Silva]

At the end of the day, it's not PD who gets your money from your pre-order, but Amazon/EB/Gamestop etc. They in turn pay Sony on delivery of the game, who have already paid PD to make the game, and then get royalties for each copy sold.

PD themselves do not benefit from your pre-order, and thus don't owe you anything. I can guarantee than PD doesn't know or care who has a pre-order because it does not affect their sales or production. Sony are making 7-10 million copies simply because that is how many they expect to sell, not to fill existing pre-orders. The 'Stealth' cars were made available by PD for the retailers to offer incentives for customers to pre-order.

So can people please stop wittering on about how they deserve a free gift from PD for pre-ordering GT5, it's getting tiresome. And before anyone asks, yes I have pre-ordered the Signature Edition, and no I don't feel I desserve anything extra.

 

[iAMgt5]

Analog> but you're OK with thinking you still deserve something just for waiting? That's what you said before either in this thread or another. What, then, makes you any different than me in wanting something extra? However, you want something extra without even having shown any commitment to the purchase. That's quite the bit illogical IMO. but like I said, we can agree on one thing ... to disagree.

DG_Silva> thanks for the brilliant insight, insider.

 

[Luminis]

However, you want something extra without even having shown any commitment to the purchase.

If anything, the down payment for a preorder is a commitment to the retailer you preordered at, since the money's not going towards PD but towards the retailer, as it's supposed to a) ensure that you're going to pick the game up or b) compensate the retailer for the trouble of reserving a copy for you that you never picked up.

In my opnion, if you want a compensation for having preordered GT5 prior to the latest delay, you should turn to whoever you preordered the game from.

Good luck with that, though

 

[Sephy]

I have a question. I know stores like Best Buy when it comes to movies buy a set number of movies and suffer a loss at the ones they can't sell until they are eventually all gone. Example; "Awesome Movie" comes out. Best Buy buys a certain number of copies of "Awesome Movie" to sell in their store. For this we'll say they bought 10,000 copies. Well 9,000 copies sold but they are still sitting on 1,000 that they can't give back. So they reduce price or whatever but the point is they bought them.

Do games work the same way? Like does Gamestop buy a certain amount of copies of GT5 and hope they sell them and then sit on the rest until they are eventually gone?




Also as far as people who say they deserve something extra, it's just a game. They are making it. You are waiting for it. I don't see how you think you deserve something because of that.

 

[analog]

Analog> but you're OK with thinking you still deserve something just for waiting? That's what you said before either in this thread or another. What, then, makes you any different than me in wanting something extra? However, you want something extra without even having shown any commitment to the purchase. That's quite the bit illogical IMO. but like I said, we can agree on one thing ... to disagree.

DG_Silva> thanks for the brilliant insight, insider.

No I don't think I deserve anything but neither do you I think ( and that comment you referred was a joke which I thought was rather obvious and some indeed understood it that way ).
And if I made any "commitment" or better put made a contribution to the development of GT5 it was through purchasing Prologue but like I said before I don't expect special treatment for doing that as the reward was that game itself ( just like the reward for pre-ordering were those bonus DLC cars ).
And DG_Silva made clear perfectly well ( and strangely you seem to agree with that which seems to be rather contradictory as it counterargues all your arguments effectively ) what a pre-order actually is and intended for.

But yes let's agree to disagree as I can't be persuaded by illogical arguments which when proven wrong ( and you seem to share that conclusion ) are again put on display as if they still stand unchanged ( that's not even illogical but inconsistent and incoherent as well ).
Nuff said indeed........

 

[iAMgt5]

interesting how you're spinning arguments your way. when you say something "it was a joke". when i say something, i can't possibly be sarcastic.

this is just giving me a head-ache so i'm done.

my turn to be cool: nuff said.

 

[analog]

interesting how you're spinning arguments your way. when you say something "it was a joke". when i say something, i can't possibly be sarcastic.

this is just giving me a head-ache so i'm done.

my turn to be cool: nuff said.

Wasn't planning to continue this argument but I don't like being accused of spinning my arguments so I dug up that specific quote from the closed GT5 demo petition thread.

I'd rather have free DLC for the coming year(s) as an apology or a handwritten letter by Kaz himself

As you can see it's hardly a serious suggestion and even if it were I don't, unlike you, make a distinction between ways of buying the game ( which it is, nothing more ).
And if you were being sarcastic ( which I sincerely doubt ) then I assume each argument you put forward was an exaggeration and therefore can't be taken serious anyway?
Why then continue this debate and put the word logic into the equation when it all was just meant sarcastic?
Head-ache worthy indeed.

 

[iAMgt5]

lol ... amazing. the only joke sounding part of your own quote is the handwritten letter. i'm sure now you're trying to make that whole DLC bit sound like a joke as well.

seriously bro, do you even read things or is that a selective process for you? pick, choose, and pick away.

i said this to the other guy: thanks for the brilliant insight, insider.

if that's not sarcasm, i don't know what to tell you.

regardless, i'm not going to post in this thread anymore about this matter. i don't want the OP's thread getting locked up for it. if you still want to respond, let's go with my previous suggestion of taking it elsewhere. and it's advisable to not end the matter with a parting shot, cuz that's quite below the belt.

so i'm cool with you, i have nothing against you, and i look forward to seeing you on the track

 

[analog]

You're right that I missed that part being sarcastic ( which you have to admit wasn't very clear if you didn't get the intent ) and explains perhaps I arrived at the wrong conclusion about it being inconsistent and incoherent so my apology for that ( not agreeing with the rest you wrote though )

so i'm cool with you, i have nothing against you, and i look forward to seeing you on the track

Yes me too, haven't got anything against you either ( just your logic ) and indeed let's hope we see each other on the track.