Do "elite" drivers ruin the game?

[DriftMethod]

I definitely don't blame the Aliens. When winning matters, you do everything within the rules to get an advantage.

The bigger issue is: Why is everyone blaming us poor, little, innocent, sheep? Honestly, so many people say, "Learn from the Top 10 and watch their lines, braking, throttle modulation, etc." So how can we learn if we're in different cars that won't drive the same?

 

[golfer07840]

If you spun the Megane you were probably overdriving it and pushing too hard. That car is one of the easiest to drive in the whole game.

It's possible. I admit I was spinning it after I had been dive bombed and side swiped totally out of the race, so I was angry. Taking it out on my accelerator I'm sure.

 

[Strangereal]

I just think they should allow tuning

 

[ASH32]

I just think they should allow tuning

That would just throw the BOP even more out of whack and increase the gaps between some cars. Also the aliens would go even faster with their own special tunes that are unstable for the average guy and the gap between them and the rest of us would get bigger, even using the good stable tunes that would likely posted on this site.

 

[Sander 001]

I just think they should allow tuning

Good idea.

I stopped doing the daily races a while ago but last week there was an N400 race that allowed tuning and it was really enjoyable! And the leaderboards had 3 different cars in the top 3(at least when I checked)! Porsche 911, Xbow and F40.

I think I did more daily races that day than my previous 2 months combined!

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I definitely don't blame the Aliens. When winning matters, you do everything within the rules to get an advantage.

The bigger issue is: Why is everyone blaming us poor, little, innocent, sheep? Honestly, so many people say, "Learn from the Top 10 and watch their lines, braking, throttle modulation, etc." So how can we learn if we're in different cars that won't drive the same?

I think we sheep could be divided into 2 further groups: the "learner" sheep and the "general" sheep. The learners are the ones you mentioned; those who try and learn the racing line and actually study the Top 10 replay. And then the "general" sheep are what bmxmitch mentioned; those who take a quick glance at the Top 10 and, "ah okay so that car is fast. Now let's hop into the entry with 5 minutes remaining and set a quali time while learning the track". Needless to say, it's us learner sheep that are the minority here

I also love how he has no racing seat or anything, just an ordinary wooden chair

Absolute legend

 

[TRL LIGHTNING]

Guys, calm down, eat your cookies, have a cup of turkish black tea and drive the subaru ^^

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

I definitely don't blame the Aliens. When winning matters, you do everything within the rules to get an advantage.

The bigger issue is: Why is everyone blaming us poor, little, innocent, sheep? Honestly, so many people say, "Learn from the Top 10 and watch their lines, braking, throttle modulation, etc." So how can we learn if we're in different cars that won't drive the same?

That's where you either wait until a specific car is in a one make daily to look at laps or search through replays. You don't even need an alien's lap to look at. As long as you find anyone faster than you driving the same car, then you'll be able to learn something.

Guys, calm down, eat your cookies, have a cup of turkish black tea and drive the subaru ^^

I only eat sugar cookies and not big on tea. I do daily drive a WRX but they need to fix the Gr4 car before I'd sign up to drive the virtual one.

 

[TRL LIGHTNING]

That's where you either wait until a specific car is in a one make daily to look at laps or search through replays. You don't even need an alien's lap to look at. As long as you find anyone faster than you driving the same car, then you'll be able to learn something.I only eat sugar cookies and not big on tea. I do daily drive a WRX but they need to fix the Gr4 car before I'd sign up to drive the virtual one.

Haha fair enough xD
And am i the only one who finds the wrx gr4 pretty alright / solid?
I did a 06.5 at suzuka there where the barriers haven't been removed yet ^^' (also 27.9 at Brands hatch)

 

[vvise]

Haha fair enough xD
And am i the only one who finds the wrx gr4 pretty alright / solid?
I did a 06.5 at suzuka there where the barriers haven't been removed yet ^^' (also 27.9 at Brands hatch)

the subaru is pretty good in the corners but isn't the lancer(in the bop meta) just strictly better in all areas?

(not that i want to start an evo vs sti internet battle...)

 

[KK78]

The only 'aliens' I have zero time for is those who regularly tank their stats (you know who you are out there) so they can masquerade as a lowly D, C, B or even A level drivers before rinsing the lobbies of easy wins fr a few nights against lower opposition. PD need to address this although they shoulder a smidge of the blame for the stupid 96 wins and 65 pole position trophies.

If PD had a way of identifying these people I'd happily see them banned but I doubt it's easy to do it fairly with the current meta.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Haha fair enough xD
And am i the only one who finds the wrx gr4 pretty alright / solid?
I did a 06.5 at suzuka there where the barriers haven't been removed yet ^^' (also 27.9 at Brands hatch)

It's not so much the optimal lap time but the tires falling off in the race. That and I sometimes think my real WRX is faster down a straight line.

 

[TRL LIGHTNING]

the subaru is pretty good in the corners but isn't the lancer(in the bop meta) just strictly better in all areas?

(not that i want to start an evo vs sti internet battle...)

I hate to say it as a subaru fan but i think i have to agree with you there. But i don't know if the evo could beat the subaru at suzuka tho (and yeah no worries xD)

 

[John Crellin]

The only 'aliens' I have zero time for is those who regularly tank their stats (you know who you are out there) so they can masquerade as a lowly D, C, B or even A level drivers before rinsing the lobbies of easy wins fr a few nights against lower opposition. PD need to address this although they shoulder a smidge of the blame for the stupid 96 wins and 65 pole position trophies.

If PD had a way of identifying these people I'd happily see them banned but I doubt it's easy to do it fairly with the current meta.

I dont think this is as prevalent as you think it is. Do you have any proof this happens at all, happens on purpose, and not is not a result of SR drops and the SR matchmaking system?

 

[DriftMethod]

That's where you either wait until a specific car is in a one make daily to look at laps or search through replays. You don't even need an alien's lap to look at. As long as you find anyone faster than you driving the same car, then you'll be able to learn something.

Isn't that the debate? If the Top 10 replays have only a small handful of cars and the races are filled with those cars, how do we find a faster example if no one is using other cars? Also, one make dailies very rarely feature the Gr. 3/4 cars that many of us want to improve on since they are the meat and potatoes of Sport Mode.

My larger point: Since the Aliens/Elites are often using the same cars and we understand why, then no one should blame the sheep for trying to emulate/learn from them.

 

[Felix]

Like others have said, it's the BoP that is the cause, not the top 10 drivers. I tried doing a few races yesterday at Brans Hatch using the Ferrari (I think it was GR4 or GR3) and even though I am not the quickest driver, the difference in speed between cars in the same class is massive. Until PD can get the balance right, we will always see people pick the same car time and time again. If most of the cars were within a couple of tenths apart, you would get a much wider range of cars on track.

I also wish PD would do more than 3 daily races. If each racing class had a daily (GR4 , GR3, GR2 and GR1) and then a random group "N" road car race. Quite often I log on, only to find one race car race, which is either on a track I don't like or has serious BoP issues like GR4 does. It can't be that hard for them to add more daily races to Sport Mode. Also PD really do need to get way more tracks added into the game, especially real world tracks from the WEC and GT3 racing.

 

[KK78]

I dont think this is as prevalent as you think it is. Do you have any proof this happens at all, happens on purpose, and not is not a result of SR drops and the SR matchmaking system?

It's pretty obvious if you check the leaderboards daily, a long line of S and S+ are interrupted by a D or C level driver. Now, of course, it could be down to a SR divebomb, but really in those upper levels how much does that happen? To be reset? Every race, every day will have at least one sub A level driver in the top 10 or at worst top 20. Then factor in if you look closely you'll sometimes start to see some of the same names go up, plummet down, go up etc... then check Kudos prime to see an SR graph like a rollercoaster.... I've had whole nights where one guy dominates lobby after lobby this way, might not be gaming the game but could well be.

Fact is it happens, how much I'm not sure but the fact there are people on forums, YouTube etc.. actively recommending the practice is more than just my hearsay.

 

[05XR8]

It's also about getting to know the car. I'd done a TT on a few tracks, Nurb Tourist, Mount Panorama and my favorite, DTG.

Using the NSX, Megane RS and Scirocco. I wanted to see about the top speeds. Down Conrod Straight, the NSX was at 255km/h. Megane was effortless at 262km. Pretty damn fast.

Now, the Scirocco has this feeling, at TC1, that it's tyres are always spinning. I figured I'm losing time in the corners(It's got excellent off throttle turn in). When I get to the Elbow, I made sure to use that mid corner grip.
From my previous run in the Magane, my split time in the Scirocco was a fraction down. So, when I plucked 6th gear down the straight, it's like the car had DRS. At 257kmh. Then, 261kmh. Then, 264kmh. The speed kept rising as I looked ahead to start braking!

By the last corner, I thought I'd be behind the NSX.

My view is, no matter what car a faster driver uses. The cars I use, aren't underdogs. I'm just making myself more adaptable to any kind of car. That's how I have my fun among those meta cars.

 

[John Crellin]

It's pretty obvious if you check the leaderboards daily, a long line of S and S+ are interrupted by a D or C level driver. Now, of course, it could be down to a SR divebomb, but really in those upper levels how much does that happen? To be reset? Every race, every day will have at least one sub A level driver in the top 10 or at worst top 20. Then factor in if you look closely you'll start to see some of the same names go up, plummet down, go up etc... then check Kudos prime to see an SR graph like a rollercoaster....

Fact is it happens, how much I'm not sure but the fact there are people on forums, YouTube etc.. actively recommending the practice is more than just my hearsay.

I wont disagree that it probably happens to some degree, but to assume that it happens to a level that affects the general player base is what i find hard to believe. The leaderboards are not DR limited and not that many Dr A+ players are racing all the time to fill all the leaderboard slots, so I dont mind if a DR C/D/E player gets on it.

Also, DR doesnt have anything to do with your ultimate hot lap time. I know some players who stick primarily to lobby racing so they dont build DR and only hop into sport modde evry now and then. Finally, if the issue is with alternate accounts ts hard to blame somone with 70k+ DR for having multiple accounts to race on when there is nothing for them to gain and everything to lose with their primary acct.

 

[Greycap]

[...] then check Kudos prime to see an SR graph like a rollercoaster... [...]

My own graph looks just like that. The beginning of my online career had a clear formula to it. Qualify the car on pole, win the race, win the next one too, then get crashed out in the first corner in the next one. Finish last or ragequit, usually the latter. Try again, get crashed again, back to the bottom where I started. The next day, the same thing. Lots of easy poles and victories, yes, but also a very high risk of flying DS4s and other things loose on the living room table. Every race start was a game of Russian roulette but the chances of not making it were quite a bit higher than one in six.

Then after one of the penalty system changes things changed and I finally made it out of the bottom but the amount of frustration before that was quite serious. Especially when there's next to nothing to be done when the second place starter gets a better rolling start (another great decision from PD) and has decided to put the car in front into the sandbox. Being two seconds faster per lap doesn't help a bit in that situation.

It's also about getting to know the car. I'd done a TT on a few tracks, Nurb Tourist, Mount Panorama and my favorite, DTG.

I just have to ask... did you have BoP on in those tests? The Scirocco in race trim is far from a fast car on the straights, certainly not a Megane killer, and the time spread seems very wide compared to my own findings about Gr.4 cars.

 

[05XR8]

I just have to ask... did you have BoP on in those tests? The Scirocco in race trim is far from a fast car on the straights, certainly not a Megane killer, and the time spread seems very wide compared to my own findings about Gr.4 cars.

No. I just set camber to 5/4 in the FWD and AWD cars and 5/3.5 in RWD cars. That's it.
TC1 on FWD, TC0 MR and TC3 depending on the RWD car.

To add, Yes! Thats why I felt I'd be behind the NSX. In Sport Mode, the Magane just walks away from me in the Scirocco. I foundv that a bit puzzling.
I also did a Scirocco One Make at La Sarthe No Chicane. Topped out at 275kmh but didn't hit the "fuel cut off". Weird.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Isn't that the debate? If the Top 10 replays have only a small handful of cars and the races are filled with those cars, how do we find a faster example if no one is using other cars? Also, one make dailies very rarely feature the Gr. 3/4 cars that many of us want to improve on since they are the meat and potatoes of Sport Mode.

My larger point: Since the Aliens/Elites are often using the same cars and we understand why, then no one should blame the sheep for trying to emulate/learn from them.

The good news is that we have two fast drivers doing BOP tests for some of the group cars. The times are certainly helpful but the videos provide an insight on how much they can get out of each car. It's not all the tracks but it's a starting point on figuring out strengths and weaknesses and then compensating for them elsewhere.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/group-3-bop-testing.375377/

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/group-4-bop-test-redux-by-windfire1010.379622/

In the end, though, it may end up being a trial and error process and relying on basic racing principles. That's how I learned with the early Gran Turismos and even the top guys go through that with a new car or a new track

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Good idea.

I stopped doing the daily races a while ago but last week there was an N400 race that allowed tuning and it was really enjoyable! And the leaderboards had 3 different cars in the top 3(at least when I checked)! Porsche 911, Xbow and F40.

I think I did more daily races that day than my previous 2 months combined!

Yet just a few days ago the N300 race at Tokyo that allowed tuning was a GT40 onemake with a couple of tuned cars in the top 3, then a 20 sec gap for all the stock GT40's to come in, then further behind a few people not driving the meta.

One daily race with tuning is fine, 2 more to chose from!

 

[GWJP RACING]

If your good so be it if you suck ass practice more. Simples

 

[devildog666]

I know this will get a lot of hate, but for me the so called "aliens" ruin the expreience/variaty we have in sport mode.
Why you ask? Well, just look at the Top 10 list in every daily race.

I'm well aware that some cars may be OP and its a neverending story with new (slightly) OP cars every update. But for me, the bigger problem is the faster guys who jump on them just to get the slight advantage (of maybe 0.1 to 0.5secs).
What follows is the sheep who think they have to use them too, to even be slightly competitive. Of course there are some exceptions, @TRL LIGHTNING is a good example, as he uses lots of underrated cars and owns the Top10 list most of the time. So you see 9 Meganes and one NSX on top.
If more of the fast guys would do that, we would see a more mixed field and would have more fun races. IMO

The last race I did, everyone and their mothers used a Megane or Lancer. I was the only one in a Citroen and could keep up easily. And why? Because I know the car and how to use it.
Most of the meta sheep just use what they see on the Top10 list, without any experience of the car and its brakingpoints etc.

I know this will never happen, as every game has this so called "meta" era. But one man can dream, right? And I will never join them and will be forever the special snowflake
I just hope more would join. Especially the faster guys, as they can influence the whole community the most.

I think you might be on to something. The fastest drivers can get 100% out of a car. At 10/10ths the Megane is probably the quickest. Most people aren't fast enough for that to matter. Variety is the spice of life people.

 

[AshenGraey]

I don't think the aliens/elites are to blame. From my perspective, it makes sense for them to use the meta cars because fighting among themselves to be at the top of the chart in the same car is just about the best way to really see who is the fastest. Now I also don't think it would be fair to blame it on everyone else who uses the meta cars either. Even though I do think it's quite pointless at times because they can't even drive the car to its full potential. At the end of the day though, everybody wants to win and to have a chance at winning, you have to be competitive. If the meta cars are the only way to be competitive, so be it. In the early days of GTS, when the BOP was nowhere near as good as it is now, there was no other way around it. You had to go for the meta cars because the others were so underpowered. Now, with the latest BOP updates, I don't think it is the case anymore (referring strictly to Gr3 cars) as they seem to be almost evenly match in terms of performance. Granted, some tracks will always be better suited for some cars more than others (exception: 911 RSR. While it may not excel everywhere, it seems to do well enough to be near the top just about anywhere) but overall, as far as I can tell from looking @Tidgney Gr3 tests, they seem to be really close.

Unfortunately, I think that mentality will not change especially when it comes to casual players which probably make up the majority of the people who play the game. "Check the top 10 board, see what car the top 10 used to post their best time and go with that". I was like that too at first but I've changed my ways a while ago after realizing a few things but mainly this: I am a lot more consistent and in some cases, much faster and more competitive when I use the car that I am really comfortable with and enjoy the most. At this time, it is the RCZ for Gr3 and RC F for Gr2. The RC Z has been my go to car ever since @TNTR_VitQ31 recommended it waaaaaaay back when and I'm still using it to this day even after PD thoughtlessly, brutally, mercilessly, ruthlessly and severely nerf it . I'm nowhere near alien level but it's just so much fun to see what kind of time I can put down with that car and see where I stack up. If I'm within 2.5 to 3.5 sec of the top times, which I usually am, that's a win in my book . I just wished more people would start thinking about it that way but alas!!

 

[bmxmitch]

If your good so be it if you suck ass practice more. Simples

There it is, the "git gud" post


And another idea would be, to get rid of the Top10 list. So no-one knows whats the fastest car for the daily!? Or at least dont show the used car, just the usernames. Maybe this would help?

 

[Crazy Taylor]

But the meta is sexy.

 

[05XR8]

But the meta is sexy.

View attachment 750840

Beauty, is in the eye of the beerholder...

 

[TRL LIGHTNING]

There it is, the "git gud" post


And another idea would be, to get rid of the Top10 list. So no-one knows whats the fastest car for the daily!? Or at least dont show the used car, just the usernames. Maybe this would help?

I disagree with you there. I am not satisfied with myself if i cannot compare my time with the times from the others. Especially what kind of car they used for this specific event and seeing how they drove. As you mentioned earlier i am mostly using underrated or slower cars because for me it is on the one hand really fun and challenging to try and beat the P1 time with a common car and on the other hand i don't want to use the same cars all over again (except for the subaru probably because i love it hahaha). But yeah it would be awesome to see some different manufacturers within the top 10 like on the asia region (if you are not counting the manufacturers cup)