Do you believe in God?

[dylansan]

Well, i do believe god exist, but its hard for me to explain, certain feeling is hard to express.

That's the problem. It's a feeling, not knowledge. This is where critical thinking comes in. Think of all the reasons you feel God must exist, and see if there are any explanations for what you have experienced that don't require God. There are probably many. I would like to know what experiences have led you to feel that way though. It may help both of us "Open our eyes" in a sense.

Its hard to describe the divine with few words, i dont even think a human can describe gods diviness. And yes i do believe in unicorn, in that manner that you still can believe without evidence that people like you would accept. I have evidence of gods existence.

Do tell, what is it then?

The question is, do you have evidence that god doesnt exist?

Unfortunately that isn't the question. I don't believe that God doesn't exist, I just don't believe God does. I don't know if he does or not, but I assume he doesn't because I have no evidence that he does. The same way I assume the carpet in my room isn't currently changing from it's normal color to bright pink while I'm typing this. I'm not looking at it right now, so it could be possible, but I have no reason to think that it is.

I do also believe than it wasnt meant for all to know about god, simply, theres not enough room in the heaven and hell for everybody. People that has lost their believe in god are lost, and they will feel it one day, i am sure. Or they will never feel it, because they have never feelt the divine (poor them).

So I'm going to hell because God randomly decided I wouldn't feel the divine because there wasn't enough room in heaven? Doesn't that make God like, a really really big jerk?

Living a life without knowing about the divine, is like eating a pizza without cheese or sausage...

I do enjoy the analogy, but I disagree. I think living a life believing in the divine is like eating a plain pizza and saying "Isn't this cheese and sausage soooo good?"

Jesus could might as well be latino, or any other race, we was certanly not a white anglosax....eating pork meat.

I don't think I understand how you don't trust the Bible but still believe Jesus exists. What other knowledge do you have of his existence besides the Bible? You certainly haven't met him personally on the street or anything.

 

[W3H5]

nope we dont have to invent God he invented us everyone is entitled to there opinion but the Truth is there is a God there is a Jesus and He is coming back

Once again, do have to keep reminding people that God has nothing to do with religion? It's about the metaphysical.

I don't need to imagine anything self-creating because we have scientific method to explain how stuff appears and disappears.

It's beyond the scope of human intelligence to imagine something self creating. Nothing to do with 'stuff' appearing and disappearing.

Really? A combination of books written two millenium ago, at least half a century after Jesus was even alive, and translated and re-interpreted dozens of times is more credible than scientific theory?

And that's the New Testament too, which is significantly more likely to be based in at least some form of fact than the Old Testament, which is essentially an ancient storybook.

I didn't once mention the Bible when I wrote about holy books. There are more ancient and mystical things than a relatively modern scripture like the Bible.

Facts for Jesus - The Bible mentions him as a prophet.

Facts against Jesus (I'm not religion bashing here) - The Bible was written hundreds of years after Jesus was supposed to exist.

- The Romans, very avid documenters at the time, had no record of this man Jesus.

- The Bible, while being written after the time of Jesus, was written by people loyal to his cause.

Science isn't scared to be wrong. People who worship God are.

I don't thing God worshippers are scared, it's just that faith can be a very powerful thing and as we know, people die for their beliefs. Not so many people die in the name of science.

If someone proved that string theory didn't exist nobody would bat an eyelid. If someone managed to categorically prove that God didn't exist, all hell would break loose, if you excuse the pun.

Again, God is a powerful notion, those who believe choose to negate the evidence over their faith. Tell a blind man black is white and he knows it to be true without needing evidence. Tell me the same thing and I'll argue until I'm cold in the ground.

Funny part is , Jesus never claimed to be son of god or god, he also said there would be others after him.....muhammed. Muslims follow both jesus and muhammed, but christians doesnt follow muhammed....do i have to say more?

The Jewish faith follows neither.

I don't think Muslims regard Jesus as a prophet, he may have made an appearance in the Koran but I don't think his role was so..........highly regarded.

As long as this thread is focused on God's interference with man, holy books, prophets and the Heaven and Hell crap then this debate will never see common sense involved.

Many thanks to Niky who actually put in words some of the most intelligent posts in the whole thread and made reading them so enjoyable. 👍

 

[Villain]

If you read what i wrote in previous posts, i wrote that i consider bible to be corrupted and hence those sources that streinghtens the credability of the bible is according to be also false.

Well where else did you expect to find that "Jesus never claimed to be son of god or god, he also said there would be others after him" - your quote - if the Bible itself is not a valid resource?

There are other sources as well proving the opposite.

Show me.

I also consider, the christianity in middle east and those places differs very much from our western thoughts. There are many sects in christianity as well...

I don't see how this point has anything to do with your previous claim. Yes, there are many different translations of the Bible, but that doesn't change the fact that you're shovelling out misinformation about the Bible whilst simultaneously citing as a source not worth including in this discussion.

The question is, how people can tust a book that is written by humans, no human is perfect, so how can a humans work be perfect and divine? It is also widely known that bible isnt accurate, its one of the most reedited and twisted holy books there are. I do think politicians in the ancient times did corrupt the bible.

I spy a fish the color of scarlett.

Second, those things you posted, you can interpret that in different way. Yes, you can come to the father (god) thru jesus, in that matter, that if you follow jesus message, you come to heaven and get spiritual contact with god. God was jesus spiritual father, not physical. The term spiritual father, when talking about god isnt something new, and is widely used. And who decides what interpratations of bible is correct?

Now you're onto something worthy of discussion. Let's break this down, shall we?

6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life."

That sure sounds like him calling himself God. Try it this way - ignore the way and the truth. What you have left is "I am the life" and we know from context that he is talking about God. (John 14) He is the life. He is the life of God. He is God.

“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

Here is the statement of Jesus saying that God is his father. He doesn't say "the Father" he says "My Father." A priest, a prophet, a pope, etc. will all say "the Father" or maybe "Our Father" but never "My Father" - Jesus said "My Father" because he was talking about his Father who divinely gave him life within his mother, a Virgin, Mary.

Let's be clear about this - I'm not arguing whether or not this is true or if I, or you, believe it. I'm just repeating what information is found in the Bible - information you saw to twist. If you want to make bold claims here, you better be ready to own them and support them.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

^ Villian doing the rare ownage routine

 

[TT3AZ]

You got to interprete those words in the historical context of that time. And i still claim that god was jesus spiritual father, as to manny others. Second, jesus preached in aramean language, and not in english, hence words could have changed meaning after the different translations. Yes gave him life, but he still was born in a physical way, right? God doesnt have any physical kids, but spiritual yes, because god gave jesus spiritual guidience. Jesus cant be god, and he never claimed it either. On the cross he yelled "elaw, elaw", which is the word of "god" in aramenain language. Why would jesus yell for god, if he was god?

Jesus was basicly a human beeing, with enlightment, that is a messenger from god.

 

[W3H5]

Jesus was basicly a human beeing, with enlightment, that is a messenger from god.

So am I. I'm enlightened to the fact that this thread is still basing all it's arguments on religious dogma and empirical evidence.

Call me back when you've reclaimed some distance from religion. This is a Meta Schema being debated here, not a rant for/ against religion.

Try to argue with the greats; Descartes, Socrates, Cant, Popper, Confucius, Plato (not the BTCC driver) or Aristotle and we can get back in business.

 

[TT3AZ]

My philosopfy is similar to these great thinkers, havent you seen that? Havent you also seen that i havent mentioned my own religion? Think about it, you will never guess...

 

[CodeRedR51]

'Truth is' there is no proof - when someone cannot prove their innocence in a court of law they are given sentence/punishment and yet the amount of people who believe in god without even a single bit of proof is crazy.

👍

 

[TT3AZ]

👍

Well, theres a differance, because spiritual proof doesnt count as "proof" in a court of law. But in the divine court, those things will count. Remember the judgement day...then you can prov what ever you like with science, but it wont matter

 

[CodeRedR51]

I'm not here to get into a debate, I just agree with what he said.

Next...

 

[Moot]

'Truth is' there is no proof - when someone cannot prove their innocence in a court of law they are given sentence/punishment and yet the amount of people who believe in god without even a single bit of proof is crazy.

👍

Nobody in court has to prove they are innocent. They are always innocent even when no evidence of innocence is presented. They are only ever declared guilty when proven guilty. Innocence is default.

The default for the universe is, there is no god, until proven otherwise.
God is the guilty verdict.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Nobody in court has to prove they are innocent. They are always innocent even when no evidence of innocence is presented. They are only ever declared guilty when proven guilty. Innocence is default.

I don't think you interpreted that correctly.

 

[Moot]

I don't think you interpreted that correctly.

I interpreted the metaphor, but I corrected it to fit.
Unless I did miss something?

 

[Villain]

The burden of proof lies with the one making claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's a simple concept.

 

[Moot]

Indeed, in a court of law, there is a belief/suspicion that an unlawful act has been committed by the defendant (defendant created the universe and/or exists). In court (our world) this is not fact or true until proven. If there is no proof, then god does not exist,for the purposes of law (reality), even if it really does. If god does turn up to defend itself in court, then that is self-incrimination. The Judge and Jury will find guilt of existence, even if it pledges assurance of it's non-existence. Us humans can't fall for that trick.
I think the metaphor of law in a court is not so good.
Bizarrely millions would assume in the court the judge would be god.
Who gave god it's authority to judge? no-one, it's relieved from service pending investigation.

 

[Encyclopedia]

My philosopfy is similar to these great thinkers, havent you seen that? Havent you also seen that i havent mentioned my own religion? Think about it, you will never guess...

May I ask what your religion is?

 

[Villain]

It can't be a Judeo-Christian one because the poor kid doesn't seem to know much about the Bible.

 

[niky]

The default for the universe is, there is no god, until proven otherwise.

God is the guilty verdict.

Do we get 1,000,000,000 years in Hell if the verdict comes in positive, or can we appeal for a suspended sentence in Purgatory?

 

[Moot]

Luckily we are not the ones on trial god is.
If god doesn't exist, it's ok god is innocent. If god does exist, god is guilty (of existing).

If found guilty I believe we have an extradition treaty with Universe 31 where god came from, according to god's passport, but that of course might be faked. God might claim asylum anyway. We should show some pity perhaps. Universe 31 must be a scary place with deities causing all sorts of trouble there.
Anyway Universe 31 is on trial next, as we don't know if it exists or not. Order!




..................................
Edit: I just googled universe 31, and there is even a website for it.
Just shows the amazing power of probability over millions of people thoughts.
The made up idea of Universe 31 has already been thought of.

 

[Dan_]

Well...putting someone ( or some entity ) under trial is a form of acknowleding it's existence.... not a very fitting metaphor if you ask me.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Do we get 1,000,000,000 years in Hell if the verdict comes in positive, or can we appeal for a suspended sentence in Purgatory?

I hear Limbo is nice this time of the year

 

[niky]

Well...putting someone ( or some entity ) under trial is a form of acknowleding it's existence.... not a very fitting metaphor if you ask me.

Dear Comrade: If you are alive, you are guilty, and will be executed. If you are dead, you will be executed, just to be sure.

Kafka would be proud.

I hear Limbo is nice this time of the year

Sorry, I'm not Jewish, I don't think my passport's valid in Limbo.

 

[DK]

I hear Limbo is nice this time of the year

You can't beat its speciality dish: toppingless pizza. No cheese, no sauce, just the base.

 

[Dan_]

Dear Comrade: If you are alive, you are guilty, and will be executed. If you are dead, you will be executed, just to be sure.

Kafka would be proud.

I see what you did there. Obviously God can't prove itself innocent or guilty of existing ( in the sense that he is the definitive creator of the universe, the biblical approach... ), which is why the metaphor doesn't help to picture the question properly.

My point is, the simple fact that God is being put under a judgement makes it exist in a philosophical way. Wheter he is the all-seeing creator or just a disguised manner of putting the naughty medieval citizens under the arms of law and civility is the main question.

I don't believe in a God as he is pictured by the bible. In fact, I don't trust the bible, it's precedence and relevance.

 

[W3H5]

Well...putting someone ( or some entity ) under trial is a form of acknowledging it's existence....

Couldn't have said it better myself 👍. This whole thread is acknowledging the idea of 'God's' existance just by being here. It had the word 'God' in it after all.

How can one have a debate about something who's idea doesn't exist. Next up on the debate list.....'Nothing'. See my point?

 

[hambone8611]

Couldn't have said it better myself 👍. This whole thread is acknowledging the idea of 'God's' existance just by being here. It had the word 'God' in it after all.

How can one have a debate about something who's idea doesn't exist. Next up on the debate list.....'Nothing'. See my point?

yup

 

[niky]

Unfortunately, we're not tackling God the Meme, just God the Creator... though the God Meme is oddly compelling... almost as compelling as a bunny with a waffle on his head...

But if we consider memes as living organisms, the God Meme is one of the best ones at self-propagation... better even than "Democracy" or "Free Will". Through the natural evolution of the God Meme, two particular God Memes stand out as superior to all others... the Christian one and the Muslim one... though it remains to be seen which one survives the best in the coming centuries...

I see what you did there. Obviously God can't prove itself innocent or guilty of existing ( in the sense that he is the definitive creator of the universe, the biblical approach... ), which is why the metaphor doesn't help to picture the question properly.

So we should do Unicorns in court, next?

 

[W3H5]

So we should do Unicorns in court, next?

Isn't it just a horse with wings?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You can't beat its speciality dish: toppingless pizza. No cheese, no sauce, just the base.

NO!!! not brick oven flat bread.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Isn't it just a horse with wings?

Sir the unicorn community is angered by your mixing up of a Pegasus with the Unicorn.