Do you believe in God?

[Jet Badger]

What you see in Christian or Muslim people does not always reflect the teachings of said religion.

Hell I have Muslim friends who drink,have sex and don't pray (all a big No-no) yet they still portray themselves as Muslims, so the violence etc of people who associate themselves with the religion isn't exactly an indication.

Did you read anything more in Imari's post other than the sentence you bolded?

The thing is that those teachings you talk about are strongly advocating violence.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Did you read anything more in Imari's post other than the sentence you bolded?

The thing is that those teachings you talk about are strongly advocating violence.

I did and argued against something he said, hence the Bold.

and no those teachings don't advocate violence.

 

[kikie]

If God is inside you, as many religious people say, and you don't believe in God, you don't believe in yourself.

 

[Imari]

I did and argued against something he said, hence the Bold.

and no those teachings don't advocate violence.

Is it your position then that none of the teachings in Christianity or Islam advocate violence?


Even if that were true, there's a lot of room for interpretation in religions. That's how they manage to make one holy document that fits such a wide range of people. How that document is interpreted by the community is a massive part of what the teachings are, whether that was the intention of the writer or not. If people choose to interpret certain passages as advocating violence then you have an entire religious group performing violent acts on the say so of their holy document (wrongly, but still).

I mean, is Christianity the Bible? Or is Christianity the people that make it up? I'm with you that the religion shouldn't be judged by people behaving in ways that are explicitly outside it's teachings, but that's not what I'm talking about.

If God is inside you, as many religious people say, and you don't believe in God, you don't believe in yourself.

Important word there.

Still, I don't need to believe in myself. By definition, I know I exist. If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to wonder if I existed.

 

[king ford III]

If God does not exist, life is ultimately meaningless. If your life is doomed to end in death, then ultimately it does not matter how you live. In the end it makes no ultimate difference whether you existed or not. Therefore I belive in faith - faith in God.

To quote Act 16:31.
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
I can't see why one would choose a life without faith in something more than just technology (although i sometimes myself wonder how a Ford f-150 can be earth made), physics etc. Afterall so much is unproven that to completely rule out the existence of God and something more than our flat reality would be some sort of denial.

 

[DK]

If only I could post Karl Pilkington's "bull:censored:" GIF.

I can't understand this mentality of "if God doesn't exist, life is meaningless". If anything, your life is more precious because you only get one shot at it.

Besides, eternal life will inevitably become boring.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Is it your position then that none of the teachings in Christianity or Islam advocate violence?


Even if that were true, there's a lot of room for interpretation in religions. That's how they manage to make one holy document that fits such a wide range of people. How that document is interpreted by the community is a massive part of what the teachings are, whether that was the intention of the writer or not. If people choose to interpret certain passages as advocating violence then you have an entire religious group performing violent acts on the say so of their holy document (wrongly, but still).

I mean, is Christianity the Bible? Or is Christianity the people that make it up? I'm with you that the religion shouldn't be judged by people behaving in ways that are explicitly outside it's teachings, but that's not what I'm talking about.



Important word there.

Still, I don't need to believe in myself. By definition, I know I exist. If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to wonder if I existed.

Yes you raise entirely valid points, ultimately people can interpit(I have the spelling capabilities of an ape) stuff to a way that justifies their goal (heck I live in a muslim country where people kill each other for power (which they say Islam justifies it) also Insert Islamic terror group that kills innocent people name here.



and yes, I think Christianity is indeed the Bible the same way Islam is the Quaran and teachings of Prophet Mohammed.

 

[Imari]

If God does not exist, life is ultimately meaningless. If your life is doomed to end in death, then ultimately it does not matter how you live.

It matters to everyone else who is still on the planet how you lived your life.

In the end it makes no ultimate difference whether you existed or not.

Demonstrably false. Would it make no ultimate difference if Moses hadn't existed? Mohammed? Jesus? One person can make a huge impact for generations afterwards.

Afterall so much is unproven that to completely rule out the existence of God and something more than our flat reality would be some sort of denial.

There's a difference between an awareness that there's plenty of things we still don't know, and being willing to accept anything that you're told on that basis.

Yes you raise entirely valid points, ultimately people can interpit(I have the spelling capabilities of an ape) stuff to a way that justifies their goal (heck I live in a muslim country where people kill each other for power (which they say Islam justifies it) also Insert Islamic terror group that kills innocent people name here.



and yes, I think Christianity is indeed the Bible the same way Islam is the Quaran and teachings of Prophet Mohammed.

And the important question left unanswered, is it your position that none of the teachings of Christianity or Islam advocate violence?

 

[Scaff]

If God does not exist, life is ultimately meaningless.

Why? Please explain exactly how this would be the case.

If your life is doomed to end in death, then ultimately it does not matter how you live. In the end it makes no ultimate difference whether you existed or not.

Total nonsense. I would argue that it matters far more how you live your life if this is the only one you have; far more that following a death cult that many of its advocates actually wish away the time on earth and don't top themselves only because one of the rule is that your not allowed.

Therefore I believe in faith - faith in God.

To quote Act 16:31.
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
I can't see why one would choose a life without faith in something more than just technology (although i sometimes myself wonder how a Ford f-150 can be earth made), physics etc. Afterall so much is unproven that to completely rule out the existence of God and something more than our flat reality would be some sort of denial.

I don't have faith in technology, which appears to be the point your are struggling with.

Also you will find that most here are not ruling anything out (that tends to be the preserve of theist), but what we do look for is evidence.

 

[Exorcet]

If God does not exist, life is ultimately meaningless.

If that is so, life remains meaningless with God, especially one that is controlling and not really all that good.

If your life is doomed to end in death, then ultimately it does not matter how you live. In the end it makes no ultimate difference whether you existed or not. Therefore I belive in faith - faith in God.

This makes no sense at all. You belief won't change anything. If life meant nothing, believing it did would not change that. It's just like believing you're a great cook won't make people like your food.

I can't see why one would choose a life without faith in something more than just technology (although i sometimes myself wonder how a Ford f-150 can be earth made), physics etc. Afterall so much is unproven that to completely rule out the existence of God and something more than our flat reality would be some sort of denial.

Faith is totally worthless, which is why I live without it.

Ruling out the concept of god isn't possible, but in practice there's nothing to lose from doing this until there is actually evidence for the existence of god.

 

[Touring Mars]

If God does not exist, life is ultimately meaningless. If your life is doomed to end in death, then ultimately it does not matter how you live. In the end it makes no ultimate difference whether you existed or not. Therefore I belive in faith - faith in God.

This is so wrong it's almost funny - if it wasn't so tragically misguided.

Whether my grandparents believed in God or not makes no difference to the fact that, if it were not for them, I would not exist. As well as all their personal accomplishments throughout their lives, they have an entire family who are living their lives and having children of their own. None of it depends on religious belief. None of it. And yet this legacy is, in your estimation, devoid of any meaning or importance? Well, speak for yourself buddy.

I hate to break this to you, but your life is 'doomed' to end in death. What you are saying is frankly beyond credulity. Apart from anything else, you are making huge assumptions about what may (or indeed may not) happen after death. There may well be something like an afterlife - but who is to say that it is anything like that envisaged by the followers of any particular religion? Face it - you and every other religious believer knows nothing about the after life... you only have belief and that isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Far from being certain that there is no after life, most atheists/non-believers are probably quite open to the prospect/possibility of something after this life. The big difference is, non-believers are rarely arrogant or stupid enough to pretend to know what that is going to be, or what the entry requirements for it are.

To quote Act 16:31.
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

What is this, a television license? Does this not strike you as patently ridiculous?

So I don't need to believe in order to be saved, so long as someone in my household does?

I can't see why one would choose a life without faith in something more than just technology (although i sometimes myself wonder how a Ford f-150 can be earth made), physics etc. Afterall so much is unproven that to completely rule out the existence of God and something more than our flat reality would be some sort of denial.

Atheists do not rule out anything - that would be non-theism, which is pretty rare in comparison to atheism.

Also, "flat reality"? What is that?

Every now and then Douglas Adams' famous quote is needed, and I believe this is such an occasion... "Is it not enough to see that the garden is beautiful without also having to believe that there are fairies living at the bottom of it too?". If your reality/world/universe/life is "flat" without the beliefs that you hold about God, then boy are you missing something pretty major.

It's just like believing you're a great cook won't make people like your food.

Tell me about it

 

[RalliArt/////]

Every now and then Douglas Adams' famous quote is needed, and I believe this is such an occasion... "Is it not enough to see that the garden is beautiful without also having to believe that there are fairies living at the bottom of it too?".

(2 Corinthians 4:18) while we keep our eyes, not on the things seen, but on the things unseen. For the things seen are temporary, but the things unseen are everlasting.

(John 5:44) for they loved the glory of men more than even the glory of God. How can YOU believe, when YOU are accepting glory from one another and YOU are not seeking the glory that is from the only God?

(1 Corinthians 1:27) Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful.

 

[Imari]

And these quotes are supposed to be illustrating what, exactly? I'm sure they're very meaningful to you, but you may have to spell it out in plain English for me.

 

[BobK]

Looks like somebody found some pretty dang good weed.

 

[dxld]

And you still have yet to provide any evidence for a million Jewish slaves in Egypt other than things like a list of names some of which sound like they might be Jewish.

How about actually backing up a claim for once, instead of just piling on more?

There was an Egyptian text that described the 10 plagues that Moses brought to Egypt. The Purity of Jewish blood still exists to this day , and the bloodline of the Ancient Eyptians has now disappeared into the mix of various middle eastern people.

 

[LeMansAid]

So dxld, I've still not managed to comprehend how the people of this Jewish blood (even though that doesn't actually exist) can be specifically blessed by God, but no-one else is at a comparative disadvantage. Can you help?

 

[Scaff]

There was an Egyptian text that described the 10 plagues that Moses brought to Egypt.

Citation required.

The Purity of Jewish blood still exists to this day , and the bloodline of the Ancient Eyptians has now disappeared into the mix of various middle eastern people.

Citation required.

Given your track record on backing up factual claims to date some sources really are needed here.

 

[dxld]

I've never employed a single person based on faith, to do so would be utterly ridiculous.

On a related note the USMC quite famously doesn't rely on faith to ensure that Marines will support each other, rather the entire focus and purpose of the training they undertaken is designed to remove the subjective from that as much as possible, the same hold true of almost every branch of military. Or did you think the marching up and down was just to look smart?

Or adrenaline (or PCP if your that way inclined).

Faith in an individual is a feeling, it's more than just picking randomly an employee out of luck. It's that feeling you get when you see the individuals education, his past experience, his extra curricular activities, community involvement, awards, the way the individual talks, how he/she sits, walks and moves. You may even find out that individual may have some small personality flaws.
When you see it all then you get that feeling and you build that confidence and faith that individual is the right person for the job, then you hire that individual.

As for the USMC, Semper Fi means always faithful, Semper Fi does not mean marching up and down just to look smart.
I'm in the Military so I do know how to hold faith in the training of others. Marching is more than looking smart, what you learn from the discipline of marching is what you learn when you discipline yourself in any skill or knowledge that is learned in the military. The discipline learned from marching applies to the discipline of flying fighter planes. The fighter pilot relies on the skill of not only himself, but the skills of his wing man, the air traffic controller, the on ground flight crew, the maintenance mechanics, the communications technicians, and the weapon system technicians. He must have faith in all those people. That faith is not something that is just assumed instantly, that faith is something that originates from training, training leads to elevated skill and knowledge, and from being surrounded by more people that are skilled and knowledgeable, then the faith comes about.

As for The Force and The Kung Fu Chi....

When Darth Vader choked a guy using the force, maybe that was exaggerated, but if you have ever seen movie footage of Bruce Lee do a 2 finger Push Up and don't believe that? Well then I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Heck look at the story of King David, when he was a little boy he was raised and trained in the skill of using a Sling. With highly trained skill and precision he took down the Giant Goliath with a Rock. After taking Goliath down, David ran towards Goliath, took Goliath's own sword and chopped his head off. Years later David became a great warrior and King.

If you still have no faith in King David as a a great Jewish Warrior, look at the Jewish Martial Art of Krav Maga and the Israeli Special Forces.

So dxld, I've still not managed to comprehend how the people of this Jewish blood (even though that doesn't actually exist) can be specifically blessed by God, but no-one else is at a comparative disadvantage. Can you help?

Those who Bless the Jews are also blessed, so a Filipino who Blesses a Jew is also blessed. Those who curse the Jews will be Cursed, like Hitler and the Nazis were Cursed.

I know this is an old joke but look at it this way, hire a Jewish Accountant, he will save you money

Didn't Douglas Adams also write about a race of people who tried to decipher the meaning of life by using a Computer? After over 2000 years the computer said the meaning of life was 42. When I think of it now, I am certain science can never explain the meaning of life, only a leap of faith could ever explain life.

 

[orimarc]

Why does life "need" a meaning?

 

[sems4arsenal]

And the important question left unanswered, is it your position that none of the teachings of Christianity or Islam advocate violence?

If by your question, you're asking me if my opinion then yes they don't.

 

[RDAardvark]

Heck look at the story of King David, when he was a little boy he was raised and trained in the skill of using a Sling. With highly trained skill and precision he took down the Giant Goliath with a Rock. After taking Goliath down, David ran towards Goliath, took Goliath's own sword and chopped his head off. Years later David became a great warrior and King.

You neglected to add adulterer to his list of accomplishments (2nd Samuel Chapter 11)

 

[Denur]

As for the USMC, Semper Fi means always faithful, Semper Fi does not mean marching up and down just to look smart.

No, in this context Semper Fi means "Always Loyal" and has nothing to do with faith in a god. And you are still confusing having faith in a person with having trust in a person.

 

[Scaff]

Faith in an individual is a feeling, it's more than just picking randomly an employee out of luck. It's that feeling you get when you see the individuals education, his past experience, his extra curricular activities, community involvement, awards, the way the individual talks, how he/she sits, walks and moves. You may even find out that individual may have some small personality flaws.
When you see it all then you get that feeling and you build that confidence and faith that individual is the right person for the job, then you hire that individual.

That's not faith.

As for the USMC, Semper Fi means always faithful, Semper Fi does not mean marching up and down just to look smart.
I'm in the Military so I do know how to hold faith in the training of others. Marching is more than looking smart, what you learn from the discipline of marching is what you learn when you discipline yourself in any skill or knowledge that is learned in the military. The discipline learned from marching applies to the discipline of flying fighter planes. The fighter pilot relies on the skill of not only himself, but the skills of his wing man, the air traffic controller, the on ground flight crew, the maintenance mechanics, the communications technicians, and the weapon system technicians. He must have faith in all those people. That faith is not something that is just assumed instantly, that faith is something that originates from training, training leads to elevated skill and knowledge, and from being surrounded by more people that are skilled and knowledgeable, then the faith comes about.

That's not faith and as has been said you need to check what Semper Fi means.

When Darth Vader choked a guy using the force, maybe that was exaggerated, but if you have ever seen movie footage of Bruce Lee do a 2 finger Push Up and don't believe that? Well then I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Still not faith.

Heck look at the story of King David, when he was a little boy he was raised and trained in the skill of using a Sling. With highly trained skill and precision he took down the Giant Goliath with a Rock. After taking Goliath down, David ran towards Goliath, took Goliath's own sword and chopped his head off. Years later David became a great warrior and King.

Nice story, citation required.

If you still have no faith in King David as a a great Jewish Warrior, look at the Jewish Martial Art of Krav Maga and the Israeli Special Forces.

Still not faith.

Seriously start using faith correctly as a term, as at this rate your going to enter the history of GTP as our second wholesale abuser of the English language.

 

[Famine]

training leads to elevated skill and knowledge

"Scire" - to know; "Scientis" - knowledge

It's almost like the rational underlying principles are scientific or something.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I meant to post this a couple pages back in response to somebody, but I forgot

Anyway, it just happened to be an article about anti-matter, not really anything to do with religion, but the line in the last paragraph made me think of the thread

A new experiment at a Swiss physics laboratory has, for the first time, successfully produced a stream of antimatter hydrogen atoms that could help answer a fundamental physics question.

The new achievement, which is detailed today (Jan. 21) in the journal Nature Communications, brings scientists a step closer to understanding why humans, stars and the universe are made of matter, rather than of its strange cousin, antimatter.

"It's one of the fundamental questions of physics: We just don't know why we exist," said study co-author Stefan Ulmer, a physicist at science research institute RIKEN in Japan.

I don't think it's fair to scientists to assume they don't care about the fundamental questions, they just go about it in different ways.

 

[Imari]

I don't think it's fair to scientists to assume they don't care about the fundamental questions, they just go about it in different ways.

And don't pretend that they know the answers when the best evidence available is a two thousand year old book and some dubious spiritual experiences.

 

[RalliArt/////]

And these quotes are supposed to be illustrating what, exactly? I'm sure they're very meaningful to you, but you may have to spell it out in plain English for me.

"plain English" V

Proverbs 14:6 A mocker seeks wisdom and never finds it, but knowledge comes easily to those with understanding.

1 Corinthians 2:14 A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the teachings of God's Spirit. He thinks they're nonsense. He can't understand them because a person must be spiritual to evaluate them.
Acts 28:26 ...By hearing, YOU will hear but by no means understand; and, looking, YOU will look but by no means see.
Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.

 

[dxld]

That's not faith.



That's not faith and as has been said you need to check what Semper Fi means.


Still not faith.



Nice story, citation required.



Still not faith.

Seriously start using faith correctly as a term, as at this rate your going to enter the history of GTP as our second wholesale abuser of the English language.

I have been repying to multiple topics from faith, to the Force of the Jedi and Kung Fu Chi, to still talking about Hebrew slaves.

So as far as Semper Fi in the United States Marine Corp, they translated it as Always faithful. I'm a United States Citizen so that's what it means in the context of the country I was born in and now serve in.

As far as the definition of faith.....

Faith - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

strong belief or trust in someone or something. : belief in the existence of God : strong religious feelings or beliefs. : a system of religious beliefs. plural faiths

Mr. Denur, the Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines faith as "trust in someone or something"
And if you continue to look a the Merriam-Webster dictionary you will see the the "full definition of faith"
Below is the text as it is read.....

a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty

b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2
a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion

b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust
3
: something that is believed especially with strong conviction;especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestantfaith>

You can look up all the stuff I post if you wish and you can read about the story of the story of David and Goliath in the Bible. I'm doing this for fun as this is an informal discussion I'm not going to cite every post I write.

You neglected to add adulterer to his list of accomplishments (2nd Samuel Chapter 11)

Adultery is not an accomplishment.

 

[Denur]

So as far as Semper Fi in the United States Marine Corp, they translated it as Always faithful.

Very good and in this case it means Always Loyal (definition 1a in that dictionary). As you can also see in that dictionary, there is no definition for faith that has to do with a person's abilities.

 

[Imari]

Proverbs 14:6 A mocker seeks wisdom and never finds it, but knowledge comes easily to those with understanding.

Well, duh.

1 Corinthians 2:14 A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the teachings of God's Spirit. He thinks they're nonsense. He can't understand them because a person must be spiritual to evaluate them.

Ah, so it's a variation on the old "if you don't get it you'll never get it" method of avoiding trying to actually explain. Nice.

Acts 28:26

...By hearing, YOU will hear but by no means understand; and, looking, YOU will look but by no means see.

Same as above, apparently. How can you throw this stuff at people who would be interested in learning more about your God? How the hell does anyone get involved in this religion if NO ONE is prepared to actually share their experiences with God?

Proverbs 18:2

A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.

I'm here asking you questions trying to get you to express your knowledge in a way that I can understand, and you call me a fool? Yeah, serves me right.

Way to be a smart arse.