Do you believe in God?

[rono_thomas]

A key distinction between Catholics and Christians is the view of the Bible. Catholics view the Bible as having equal authority with the Church and tradition. Christians view the Bible as the supreme authority for faith and practice.

Many Catholics would consider themselves not Christian. Many Christians would not consider themselves Catholic. I say many and not all as it is not possible for me to ask this question to everyone.
I would be interested to know if anyone reading this is Catholic do they consider that they attend a Christian church. I know that Christians do not consider themselves to attend a Catholic church.

So Scaff I would have to disagree there is a distinction - a difference and confessionals are found in Catholic churches not Christian churches.

So in reply to this:

Are Catholics not Christians now?

No they are not. Perhaps as whole you could say this - like calling many colours in the sky a rainbow - but when you get down to the bones of it they are different, and not the same.

 

[Scaff]

Actually, it doesn't fit the bill at all. If you want to say Baptists are a denomination of Christianity, that's valid. But even calling Baptists a sect would be a stretch. Catholic means universal-- it's the mother church. You can't be an offshoot or subgrouping of that which you are.

The Assyrian and Asian Orthodox Churches who broke off after the changes brought about by the councils of 431 and 451 respectively would disagree with it being the 'Mother church' (as they would have just as much claim to that title) as would Eastern Orthodox Church who did the same at the point of the Great Schism.

I just thought it was funny that you posted that up there.

From my view they are all parts of the larger whole, but I have no 'horse in the race' so what ever term is more comfortable I'm fine with.

A key distinction between Catholics and Christians is the view of the Bible. Catholics view the Bible as having equal authority with the Church and tradition. Christians view the Bible as the supreme authority for faith and practice.

Many Catholics would consider themselves not Christian. Many Christians would not consider themselves Catholic. I say many and not all as it is not possible for me to ask this question to everyone.
I would be interested to know if anyone reading this is Catholic do they consider that they attend a Christian church. I know that Christians do not consider themselves to attend a Catholic church.

So Scaff I would have to disagree there is a distinction - a difference and confessionals are found in Catholic churches not Christian churches.

So in reply to this:



No they are not. Perhaps as whole you could say this - like calling many colours in the sky a rainbow - but when you get down to the bones of it they are different, and not the same.

My wife Catholic, her family are Catholic, her mum and dad were blessed by the last pope. They all class themselves as Christian. I've had more conversations about this kind of subject with Catholics that I can recall.

The Catholic Church classes itself as Christian.

"Our Christian identity is belonging to a people: the Church. Without this, we are not Christians. We entered the Church through baptism: there we are Christians,"

Source: http://www.christianpost.com/news/pope-francis-without-the-church-you-are-not-a-christian-119827/

Quite frankly your talking nonsense and the Pope himself says so.

 

[Exorcet]

Many Catholics would consider themselves not Christian.

I've never experienced this in any form that I can remember.

 

[rono_thomas]

I really am not talking nonsense and this could go on so Scaff we will agree to disagree. If that is ok with you?

 

[Scaff]

I really am not talking nonsense and this could go on so Scaff we will agree to disagree. If that is ok with you?

No actually its not, your posting unsupported nonsense.

You might not class Catholics as Christians, nothing within the AUP stops people believing in any old nonsense. What you will not do is state it as fact without supporting evidence.

Mine is the entire history of the Catholic church and the Pope. Yours is?

 

[rono_thomas]

That Christians do not have a use for a Pope.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/ataglance/glance.shtml

and this makes for an interesting comparison


http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/pope/pope.shtml

So Christianity is very different to being a catholic.

 

[Scaff]

That Christians do not have a use for a Pope.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/ataglance/glance.shtml

and this makes for an interesting comparison


http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/pope/pope.shtml

So Christianity is very different to being a catholic.

You do know that neither of those sources support your claim?

Everything in your first link that classifies a Christian applies to Catholic Christians as well.

You seem to be suggesting that Catholics have abandoned the Trinity and Bible in favour of just worshiping the Pope. Which would be, to say the least, a bit bonkers.

 

[Exorcet]

That Christians do not have a use for a Pope.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/ataglance/glance.shtml

and this makes for an interesting comparison


http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/pope/pope.shtml

So Christianity is very different to being a catholic.

That a subset of something has a unique feature doesn't exclude it from being a subset. I cannot recall a mass where the priest said we weren't Christian. And it's a bit silly to focus on the pope thing while ignoring the other similarities.

 

[rono_thomas]

Support my claim that Christians are different to Catholics?

 

[TheCracker]

That Christians do not have a use for a Pope.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/ataglance/glance.shtml

and this makes for an interesting comparison


http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/pope/pope.shtml

So Christianity is very different to being a catholic.

None of what you posted supports your claim

Go on the Vatican website and you can read plenty of articles on 'being a Christian' - plenty of hose by the Pope himself. If the Vatican sees itself as a Christian organisation...

 

[Scaff]

Support my claim that Christians are different to Catholics?

That would be it. It doesn't support your claim that Christians are different to Catholics, it support the fact that Catholics are a Christian denomination.

In short Catholics believe that the Pope is God's emissary on Earth, that makes them different to the rest of the Christian sects. However each of those sect's equally has its own difference(s).

The Church of England has the monarch as the divinly appointed head of the Church (basically a slightly demoted version of being Pope in its original form), its a Anglican subset of the Protestant branch of Christianity. Still Christian.

None of what you posted supports your claim

Go on the Vatican website and you can read plenty of articles on 'being a Christian' - plenty of hose by the Pope himself. If the Vatican sees itself as a Christian organisation...

Nope - he knows better than the Pope. After all what's the Pope every done for Catholics.............

 

[rono_thomas]

No I'm saying that the catholic church looks to the pope as being its head. Where as say a Christian in a Methodist church would not. My point all along is not to disagree with you that you consider catholics to be Christian just that a confessional would not be found in a Christian church... maybe it should have said all Christian churches, which would have been more accurate to describe it. Confessionals are key component to a catholic church - this is my claim - am I wrong??

 

[Famine]

A Christian is simply someone who believes that Jesus Christ was the messiah. I mean, the clue is in the name.

 

[rono_thomas]

A Christian is simply someone who believes that Jesus Christ was the messiah. I mean, the clue is in the name.

Is this in reply to me as this is what I'm trying to point out? Maybe badly.

 

[Scaff]

No I'm saying that the catholic church looks to the pope as being its head.

Head of its Church on Earth, Just as the CoE consider the British Monarch its head. However the both believe (and oddly enough this is common to all Christian religions) that the Holy Trinity tops all of that.

Catholics do not put the Pope above God, which is what you are inferring (quite incorrectly).

Ohh and Methodists most certainly do have a 'head on Earth'

Where as say a Christian in a Methodist church would not. My point all along is not to disagree with you that you consider catholics to be Christian just that a confessional would not be found in a Christian church... maybe it should have said all Christian churches, which would have been more accurate to describe it. Confessionals are key component to a catholic church - this is my claim - am I wrong??

No what you said was that you will not find a confessional in a Christian Church, which is incorrect.

You then said that Catholics are not Christians, which is also incorrect.

Is this in reply to me as this is what I'm trying to point out? Maybe badly.

Which would make Catholics Christian as that is exactly what they believe in.

 

[Omnis]

That Christians do not have a use for a Pope.

@Scaff, we were talking about sects, right? See above

 

[rono_thomas]

Then I apologise for having a different viewpoint regarding catholics and Christians. To me they are different - their teachings are different to each other - if you read your 2nd quote back you will notice that I have highlighted ALL. So then for poorly wording something I have created an argument out of nothing - To word it better

Confessionals are a key component to a catholic church - not all variations of Christianity. Am I wrong?

 

[Scaff]

Then I apologise for having a different viewpoint regarding catholics and Christians. To me they are different - their teachings are different to each other -

No they are not really.

I was brought up Anglican (now Atheist) and my wife Catholic. I've spent enough times with both side of the two largest Christian groups to know that the teachings are not very different to each other at all. The differences are if anything around which dates are most important (Anglicans its the birth of Jesus - Catholics its his death and resurrection) and the structure of the Church.

However they are both quite clearly Christian.

if you read your 2nd quote back you will notice that I have highlighted ALL. So then for poorly wording something I have created an argument out of nothing - To word it better

Which rasies the question as to why you didn't at the time clarify it rather that going down the path of a 'Catholics are not Christians' tirade that would have done old man Paisley proud.

Confessionals are a key component to a catholic church - not all variations of Christianity. Am I wrong?

A confessional is a tool in which to take confession in and yes they are unique to Catholicism. That however misses the point, confession (as in the act rather than the tool used to carry out the act) is integral to every form of Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession_(religion)#Christianity

 

[rono_thomas]

The original post I responded to was to clarify that a confessional is not unique to Christianity but is unique to a Catholic church as I have already conceded that I wrote it misleadingly I will endeavour to (a) be more specific in my future posts in this thread (b) not respond if I'm being distracted.

I understand what a confession/testimony is as I also have a non-Catholic Christian (👍) background and now also an Atheist. This was never my point.

 

[Imari]

Not sure you'll find a confessional in a Christian church....

"Things like confessionals". Catholics have a physical thing that they use to confess their sins. Protestants still confess, they just do it directly to God. I'm sure other Christian sects do it in other ways I don't know about. In referring to "things like confessionals" I was attempting to refer to all the different methods by which all Christian sects confess, of which a confessional was the most concrete and simple to describe.

"Things like confessing directly to your God through the medium of prayer" doesn't have the same ring to it. And besides, then someone would have had a go at me because not all Christian sects do that either.

The common thread here is that all Christians (as far as I'm aware) confess their sins in some form or another. Hence, Jesus dying for your sins isn't enough, you also have to confess and repent.

In a non-Catholic, Christian church you will not find a confessional.

Good job that's not what I said then.

As others have pointed out, Catholicism is definitely Christian.

 

[niky]

I really am not talking nonsense

Having been born a Catholic, though no longer practicing or believing in Catholic teachings verbatim, I had to laugh at this entire discussion.

Are you a human?

Would you consider women to be non-humans? Because they, very obviously, have working breasts, and humans do not.

-

Do you see the problem with the above paragraph?

-

Not all humans are non-women. Not all Christians are non-Catholics. It's that simple.

And... question... when you talk about "Christians"... which ones are you talking about:

?

 

[rono_thomas]

On reflection - the morning after - I am mortified that I wrote such things - alcohol rarely mixes with anything well least of all heated discussions - my apologies.

 

[LeMansAid]

On reflection - the morning after - I am mortified that I wrote such things - alcohol rarely mixes with anything well least of all heated discussions - my apologies.

Off to the confessional for you then...... One of those Christian ones maybe.

 

[rono_thomas]

👍

 

[sammy neuman]

A Christian is simply someone who believes that Jesus Christ was the messiah. I mean, the clue is in the name.

I agree. though there may be endless squabbling and excommunicating over details, That is the heart of the matter.

 

[DonZonda]

As reply to the question.
I believe in somekind of God, something which everything has originated from a spirit or universal source.
But I dont believe in those manmade Fairytale books! Nor I follow any religion.

 

[squadops]

God without religion?

Impossibru 👍

 

[Dotini]

I agree. though there may be endless squabbling and excommunicating over details, That is the heart of the matter.

Resurrection and eternal life. The most beautiful lie ever told.

 

[LeMansAid]

God without religion?

Impossibru 👍

The idea of a 'god' is one thing, and religion is another.

 

[squadops]

You felt the need to show my opinion doesn't change?