Do you believe in God?

  • Thread starter Patrik
  • 24,083 comments
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Do you believe in god?

  • Of course, without him nothing would exist!

    Votes: 616 30.5%
  • Maybe.

    Votes: 368 18.2%
  • No way!

    Votes: 1,035 51.3%

  • Total voters
    2,018
DCP
God does still perform miracles—many of them simply go unnoticed or are denied.
  1. https://www.google.co.za/?gfe_rd=cr&...+today&tbm=vid

I want to say that some research into how statistics work might enlighten you, but that's probably not true.

Weird 🤬 happens all the time, when you've got 7 billion subjects doing things 24 hours a day. What you shouldn't do is immediately point at anything you don't understand and yell "God did it!"

Maybe he did. But just because you can't explain it, doesn't mean it was God.

There is no need to immediately categorise everything you don't understand into "good thing: God did it" and "bad thing: Satan did it". Maybe it's true, or maybe you could learn a little more before laying everything at their feet.

Nobody likes a suck up.
 
@DCP I'm just curious.
If you had a accident and got injured, do you;
A. Claim it was God.
B. Blame Satan.
C. Blame yourself or the other party.
 
@DCP I'm just curious.
If you had a accident and got injured, do you;
A. Claim it was God.
B. Blame Satan.
C. Blame yourself or the other party.

At one stage in my life, I would blame God, but since I know the truth, I can't blame anyone.
 
DCP
No, is wasn't magical. He Spoke everything into existence. He condemns magic, as you can imagine how many people think magicians are god like today.

That sounds pretty magical. And no, people don't think David Copperfield is god-like, he's a slight-of-hand, misdirection kind of guy. Or maybe Penn and Teller? These are shows - people demonstrating how good they are at tricking people. I promise you, nobody thinks magicians are Gods.

Magician-Sacramento-Kids-Party.jpg
 
I'm thinking about the crane that blew down at the Grand Mosque in Mecca killing a bunch of people

"Act of God"
An act of God is a legal term for events outside human control, such as sudden natural disasters, for which no one can be held responsible.Wikipedia

The description fits. I wonder what bothered god that day.
 
I'm thinking about the crane that blew down at the Grand Mosque in Mecca killing a bunch of people

"Act of God"
An act of God is a legal term for events outside human control, such as sudden natural disasters, for which no one can be held responsible.Wikipedia

The description fits. I wonder what bothered god that day.
Thing is though is what happens when it happened on, say, New York or Berlin? The "god" part would be less noticeable than in Mecca or Jerusalem, isnt it.
 
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Thing is though is what happens when it happened on, say, New York or Berlin? The "god" part would be less noticeable than Mecca or Jerusalem, isnt it.
I'm sure there will be few who would consider it an act of god. More than likely, in New York, the manufacturer of the crane would probably be the one to blame. Berlin, I don't know.
 
I very much like the way Isaac Asimov expresses it in this YouTube clip.

It's analogous to saying that rationality has a common acceptance while faith does not. There are disciplines which define the common acceptance of rationality, whereas no discipline has yet been proposed which allows people of faith to agree about what deserves faith.

"Asimov and Religion":-

 
Oh, that should be an easy one.

Now you just need to list some verifiable/verified miracles, please.
Not to worry, as soon as I can find one, I will.
Again, this does not make the existence of miracles a 50/50 chance. When there's a lack of evidence that something exists, despite many people trying really hard to find some, it almost certainly does not.
As you have emphatically rejected personal testimony, which is no surprise, there is not much to work with. "almost certainly" is correct for the viewpoint you are using.

Baloney. If you want to run away from the question, just say so.
To save time and words: I believe because of experience (personal revelation, which consisted of nothing more than "I exist, and I care", without requiring allegiance to any particular flavor of religion) and long ago decided that I have no idea of the nature of God. The Bible (and religions in general) present conflicting theologies and, rather than worry about which is correct, I take the attitude that if it is important, it will be clear. What is clear to me is that I am to believe, and I am to treat others as I would want to be treated.

There's an inherent contradiction between two of the most fundamental claimed properties of your god, and you don't think it's worth considering?[/UNQUOTE]
The key words are claimed properties. I do not know, and actually don't care.


So you acknowledge that your view is based on multiple assumptions. This doesn't give you pause?[/UNQUOTE]
Actually, my view is based on one belief; that God exists. After that, I can speculate, but that is what it is.

Not. Equal.[/UNQUOTE]
As I have reason to believe that God exists whether you accept it or not, I agree.

Good thing those aren't the only two options then, isn't it? My lack of belief (and similar lack of non-belief) is entirely objective.[UNQUOTE]
And from a strict materialist point of view entirely correct.

Declining to believe in something for which there is no objective evidence is completely logical.[UNQUOTE]
A slight correction: 'is completely logical for the viewpoint that accepts nothing that does not meet the definition of 'objective'.

What part of "I lack belief in god(s) because there is no objective evidence that indicates they exist" is an opinion?[UNQUOTE]
The above is not an opinion, it was also not what I was referring to. The opinion reference concerned personal witness:

Not to what you think you are.
and
That's exactly what it is. You heard somebody say that unexplained things are God's work, and you then perpetuate that rumor by claiming the same. Pretty much the dictionary definition of hearsay.

Unless you have proof for both of the above statements, they are pretty much the dictionary definition of opinion.


Joke all you want, but that's a very real issue. Christians always put the onus on nonbelievers; "if you've never had a personal experience with god, it's because you're not looking."
That's baloney. I personally have made very real attempts to "find" God. Other atheists in this thread have said similar things. Apparently, she really doesn't want to know all of us. How does that fit into your belief system?

I joke because it is a legitimate question and I don't have an answer that I am comfortable with. I have thought about what would convince a skeptic that God exists, and I think that only personal revelation would do it, but that just shifts the accusation from "you're not looking" to "perhaps it's been there but you found 'natural causes' to be a sufficient explanation". Which presumes that one can be as bloody-minded about atheism as anything else. Which may be true, but is not helpful. I have other notions, but they are theological in nature.
Personal revelation worked with me, but I may not have been as skeptical as I thought.


I did. And your choice to just joke at it instead of making a serious attempt to answer it is part of a pattern that I'm starting to see.
I'm getting a the very distinct impression that you don't want to examine any of your beliefs very deeply at all. If we throw out the jokes, the snark, the "duh"s, and the "wasting my time"s, you offered up very little of substance here.
Interesting, I have much the same impression.
[/QUOTE]
 
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A slight correction: 'is completely logical for the viewpoint that accepts nothing that does not meet the definition of 'objective'.

Let's say that we accept non-objective evidence. So we accept evidence from our own experience that others cannot witness. And we also accept evidence that potentially cannot be experienced by ourselves, but can only be experienced by others.

Why should I believe in something that cannot be experienced by myself? I really shouldn't believe in what Jimmy on the bad trip in the corner tells me about spiders all over the walls, and aliens coming to probe me. It may be very real in his mind, but it's no part of my world.

Likewise, he shouldn't bother believing in anything that I might tell him that I've experienced that he cannot. I may be filled by the love of God, but if he doesn't feel it then there's no reason for him to believe.

And so we end up at the point where humanity as a group can only really agree on things that they can all experience. If you've got a personal experience, then you may have to treat that as real. Jimmy on the LSD trip is probably going to behave as though the spiders and aliens are real, simply because if he doesn't and they do happen to be real, invisible aliens and spiders that only he can see then he's :censored:ed.

But you can't and shouldn't expect others to believe in your subjective experiences. The only time anyone else should care about your subjective experience is if they can experience it too. At which point it's objective, and everything's fine.

So many people don't understand this. If you're the only person that can experience something, nobody else could or should give a rat's arse. If they can experience it too, then it's objective and no problem.

There's one way around this. If you are the only observer then you have to take your observations at face value, and no external data from other things that appear to be observers is admissable. You're stuck with only your own subjective observations, and so you must make do with those.

But this requires assuming that you're the only true consciousness, and therefore sort of rules out God. If there was a God, he's be conscious, and he'd be able to verify any observations that you might make. Bringing you back into the need for objective observations. The moment you have more that one observer, you need objectivity.

So, are we all just meat puppets here to create an illusion for you, the true consciousness?

I have thought about what would convince a skeptic that God exists, and I think that only personal revelation would do it, but that just shifts the accusation from "you're not looking" to "perhaps it's been there but you found 'natural causes' to be a sufficient explanation".

If natural causes are a sufficient explanation, then it's not proof of God. Proof, in any sense, is something that narrows the possible causes down to a small subset. If an event doesn't rule out natural causes as a possible explanation, then it cannot be proof of God.

What would convince a skeptic that God exists is an event that only God or something very similar to God could cause.

I don't expect anyone to believe that miracle berries make lemons taste super delicious. But I can feed them miracle berries, and feed them lemons, and they can taste the deliciousness. There are other possible explanations for this event, like I rigged the lemons to be especially delicious. But a few simple experiments can rule out these sort of tricks, and the best explanation ends up being that miracle berries change your sense of taste in such a way that lemons are yummy. This may be ultimately wrong, but it's the best explanation for the observed facts.

God needs to be able to do the same. Some set of circumstances for which a rational, unbiased observer could say "God or a similar being is the best explanation for this", and have it stand up to people actually trying to make sure that it's the case. Just as we did making sure that I hadn't rigged the lemons or some other trick.

People come up with events all the time for which they think that God is the best explanation. To date, I'm not aware of one that's actually stood up to investigation. If it doesn't stand up, then it wasn't strong enough to convince a skeptic.

Really, everyone should be skeptical of everything. There's no need to go around believing in stuff willy nilly. There's plenty of time for that when the evidence for it whacks you between the eyes.
 
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I'm just wondering why we're not all dead yet.

I mean, the Tetrad has been and gone (and in any case all other alleged major events occurred at the start of one), as has the superbloodmoon... Wasn't there supposed to have been an apocalypse?
 
I'm just wondering why we're not all dead yet.

I mean, the Tetrad has been and gone (and in any case all other alleged major events occurred at the start of one), as has the superbloodmoon... Wasn't there supposed to have been an apocalypse?
No one knows the day or the hour. We found out, so it had to be postponed.
 
Acts 2:
20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:


Read the verse properly. The word "before".

Also, the apocalypse takes place after the 7 year tribulation. Don't mix them up.
 
There are several variations of this article going around that talk about belief in God being affected by magnetic fields. For years I've said more or less the same thing, including environmental electromagnetic effects both natural and synthetic being responsible for extraordinary experiences and visions involving everything from angels to UFOs.

https://stream.org/scientists-claim-zapping-brains-with-magnets-can-treat-belief-in-god/
"scientists hope that in the future belief in God, or in some other politically incorrect question that might — only might — lead to “zealous acts,” can be treated, maybe even cured, by magnet zappings."
 
There are several variations of this article going around that talk about belief in God being affected by magnetic fields. For years I've said more or less the same thing, including environmental electromagnetic effects both natural and synthetic being responsible for extraordinary experiences and visions involving everything from angels to UFOs.

https://stream.org/scientists-claim-zapping-brains-with-magnets-can-treat-belief-in-god/
"scientists hope that in the future belief in God, or in some other politically incorrect question that might — only might — lead to “zealous acts,” can be treated, maybe even cured, by magnet zappings."

...Why does this reminds me of:

7f606b5a94230372650b8943c466b657.jpg


I'd rather stay insane, thanks very much.
 
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